Pioneer Elite vsx56txi,Marantz sr8500,or Yamaha rxv2500?

[woodman]

... that's why i seem so bent on power.as long as i know the receiver can give what i want , the actual number value doesn't matter. however, the number values that are listed are all i have to work with. i figured someone on this site would know which receivers are pushing real power vs. those whose specs are bulls**t.

Dude, all "specs" are both real and bullsh!t That's the way the "game" is played by everybody (just about) in today's CE industry. It's not a question of honesty - it's simply that what one mfg. does, the competition will invariably follow. Audio output power "specs" in particular, have always been somewhat of a "shell game". Very much like the "horsepower race" with automobiles. If there's a way (and there most certainly is) that a mfg. can "fudge" the numbers to make his product look "better" than it actually is, he will most likely do so. Then, all of his competitors follow suit, and around and around it goes!

p.s. to woodman: do you also hold PIONEER ELITE receivers in the same regard all the other receivers out there, or are they a little bit better?

Pioneer Elite are probably "a little bit better" in some regards, but ... in recent years their customer support has been in decline. For this reason, I list them as a mfg. that I wouldn't be likely to buy from.

Now, in response to the question that you raised in the next post which is:

p.s.s.to Woodman again: please go to audioholics.com and read the thread from jman103099 (yamaha 5750 volume/loudness) issue. he and some friends i know seem to have to turn the volume on the latest yamaha receivers way up(at LEAST 75% or better the accheive a normal volume level.THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I"M TRYING TO AVOID. the db range goes from -76db to +6db. is it normal to have the volume set at -10db for normal sound level?

The answer to this seeming "problem" lies in the fact that we're dealing with an entirely different type of volume control here. It's digital rather than the conventional analog volume controls of the past ... the two are hardly even remotely similar in concept, design, and execution. In the past, we became accustomed to a volume control that seemed to give an indication of an amplifier's "power". To turn it up to around the 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock position - and the sound was plenty loud, was an indication that the amp had plenty of "power". Turning it up to 12 o'clock made the sound almost painfully too loud ... wow, this amp is really powerful, isn't it? Well no, not exactly. It's like an illusion as performed by a magician - you see it and hear it, so it must be "real" - but it is in fact an illusion.

Now, we move into the 21st century, and the tried and trusty volume control is replaced by a digital volume control which behaves in a completely different manner altogether. Plus, it gives us a "readout" in db instead of a "clock" position. The two are so vastly different, that it leaves us with the feeling that the new type of amplifier is somehow just not as powerful as the older ones were. Not true, buckaroo!

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, let me say it once again: this is truly a "no brainer" decision ... get the Yamaha - enjoy it - never look back. That's the very best advice that I think you can get - here or anywhere else.

[poneal]

those orbs up with a little twist on the volume knob. My vintage early 70's Pioneer SX-838
http://home.stx.rr.com/poneal/index....ge=VintageGear

[thedude1]

those orbs up with a little twist on the volume knob. My vintage early 70's Pioneer SX-838
http://home.stx.rr.com/poneal/index....ge=VintageGear

WHAT?????