Paging E-Stat. STAT!

[pctower]

Or not as you had no way of compariong, right. You just hope it does due to cost. Or, it could sound different. Certainly he has different speakers and room.

You really have decided to take up permanent residence in the ozone layer. One may argue in good faith about the ability to diferentiate between cables, but when one is exposed to systems such as this, it is undebiable that they have entered a new dimension in sensory experience.

I don't believe any rationale human being could be exposed to such a system and disagree. I have never had the honor of visiting Seaclift, but I have been fortunate enough to hear special, high-quality systems.

For you, there is no differentiating or judgment in audio that is not subject to numerical verification. You truly must never have heard a really good high end system. You reduce the hobby to a sterile wasteland in which human experience, judgment and differentiation are held hostage to a view of the limits of human subjective experiences that removes all experiantial value to life.

You no doubt enjoy expressing this barren approach to life, but one can only wonder how much more you would enjoy exposing yourself to the wonderful experiences that are open to those who don't require numerical confirmation for ever life experience.

[Pat D]

You really have decided to take up permanent residence in the ozone layer. One may argue in good faith about the ability to diferentiate between cables, but when one is exposed to systems such as this, it is undebiable that they have entered a new dimension in sensory experience.

I don't believe any rationale human being could be exposed to such a system and disagree. I have never had the honor of visiting Seaclift, but I have been fortunate enough to hear special, high-quality systems.

For you, there is no differentiating or judgment in audio that is not subject to numerical verification. You truly must never have heard a really good high end system. You reduce the hobby to a sterile wasteland in which human experience, judgment and differentiation are held hostage to a view of the limits of human subjective experiences that removes all experiantial value to life.

You no doubt enjoy expressing this barren approach to life, but one can only wonder how much more you would enjoy exposing yourself to the wonderful experiences that are open to those who don't require numerical confirmation for ever life experience.

Oh Phil, you have no idea what experiences mtry has had nor what his listening skills are! You go bonkers when someone makes personal attacks on you. This one makes you a first class hypocrite.

[mtrycraft]

For you, there is no differentiating or judgment in audio that is not subject to numerical verification. You truly must never have heard a really good high end system. You reduce the hobby to a sterile wasteland in which human experience, judgment and differentiation are held hostage to a view of the limits of human subjective experiences that removes all experiantial value to life.

You no doubt enjoy expressing this barren approach to life, but one can only wonder how much more you would enjoy exposing yourself to the wonderful experiences that are open to those who don't require numerical confirmation for ever life experience.

Come now, where did I request a numerical expression of this system? Why can't I find that insistance?

Or, is it that you and they just don't like being questiond, taken to task? You just prefer a blinde obediance to your faith, it seems.

You don't question anything, it seems; maybe you do but it is so elusive. They, on the other hand would let everything fall into their belief system.
I question.

[hifitommy]

seems to be entirely absent Pat. mtry hides behind the supposed anonymity of experience and system. its obvious that he is devoid of both. he is also not foreign to administering personal attacks, without basis i must point out.

i actually know someone that does not enjoy eating. he only does so because its necessary and that reminds me a lot of mtry. you and he are the hypocrites here. systems such as what reisides in sea cliff and some that i have personally heard myself are exceedingly involving because of the amount of detail and presence exuded.

yes, rooms and equipment are different, VERY much so.

[mtrycraft]

On another note, I can tell you that it does not matter how realistic Tomilson Holman's 10.2 system may be; under certain circumstances, with a certain stereo and with specific recordings, stereo does sound realistic too me,

I don't doubt that at all.


compared to live acoustic events as my memory remembered them.


Yes, as you can remember. That is the problem, memory is not that good for small things, or larger things as time passes, unfortunately.

Is the 10.2 going to sound more realistic then live performances?

10.2 is not a live performance so it cannot be more realistic than live. But it certainly can be more realistic that 2 channels. That is the whole idea.

Remember, it is my perception at subject here.

Yes, that is what we are talking about, perception and how good it is.


My perception was that stereo unde special conditions sounded realistic.


Yes, that can be the perception.

Simple. I could be under the influence of bias, etc.. But like my earlier post stated, if such factors can cause such a perceptual effect, then what is the problem?

No consequences to you. I don't deny that at all. Only when that questionable perception was asked to be believed by others as being factual, then some questions are raised.



I'm sure a proper multi channel recordig/playback process will produce realistic effects that are reliable(unlike stereo) and can be geared towards mutliple listeners and over broader seating ranges, unliike stereo.

-Chris

And for that one person too

[mtrycraft]

You have no comprehension of what dozens of industry leaders think of Harry's system. But then you acknowledged that in your first statement.

rw

Of course they will badmouth it in public? Or, even if there is nothing to badmouth it for, who said it is so much shoulders above anything else? You? Maybe they are just kind to your friend, nothing more.

And, its ability to differentiate better smaller differences, at issue here, has not been demonstrated by anyone, least of all you. But how could it be when your hearing is soo limited in ability. LOL.

[mtrycraft]

Where are the speakers? That is what makes or breaks a system. Where is the listeing room? I must have missed them.
So far, it is interesting art objects.

[mtrycraft]

systems such as what reisides in sea cliff and some that i have personally heard myself are exceedingly involving because of the amount of detail and presence exuded.

yes, rooms and equipment are different, VERY much so.

That is your opinion. Not all are equal, right. Everyone has one, or two.

[hifitommy]

CORRECT sir!

;^)

[WmAx]

Yes, as you can remember. That is the problem, memory is not that good for small things, or larger things as time passes, unfortunately.

That is the point. The memory is not accurate enough to always tell the difference. I believe this is exactly why in some isolated examples; stereo can sound very realistic. Same result(perceptual realism is may be possible with stereo).

Yes, that is what we are talking about, perception and how good it is.

Or, how bad it may be. :-)

-Chris

[E-Stat]

But how could it be when your hearing is soo limited in ability. LOL.

You will never know

rw

[hifitommy]

typical mudslinging of someone with limited LISTENING abilities such as the quoted mtry.

[pctower]

Oh Phil, you have no idea what experiences mtry has had nor what his listening skills are! You go bonkers when someone makes personal attacks on you. This one makes you a first class hypocrite.

Mytrcrafts has never said anything about his experience, so we can only judge from his posts. You seem to want to sound mysterious as if you are really in the "know". But that just doesn't get it. Be honest. Either admit you have no direct knowledge of his experience or come clean and tell us exactly what you know.

My comments were based on my observations of his posts and I stand by my comments.

You have repeatedly demonstrated how extremely biased you are - accordingly I discount much of what you have to say.

[pctower]

Come now, where did I request a numerical expression of this system? Why can't I find that insistance?

Or, is it that you and they just don't like being questiond, taken to task? You just prefer a blinde obediance to your faith, it seems.

You don't question anything, it seems; maybe you do but it is so elusive. They, on the other hand would let everything fall into their belief system.
I question.

I could care less about your questioning, other than it has become unbelievably predictable and boring. Your comments about "belief" systems are wholly irrelevant and unresponsive to any point I was making. Typical mudslinging.

You are the one who has demonstrated beyond question a blind adherence to faith in an extrenely shallow and unquestioning form of "science".

[E-Stat]

Thank you E-Stat. But where are the photos of the speakers and listening chair? :-)

Well, you do have a view of that chair's arm. Here's Alon's official pic of the Grand Exotica.



rw

[Pat D]

Mytrcrafts has never said anything about his experience, so we can only judge from his posts. You seem to want to sound mysterious as if you are really in the "know". But that just doesn't get it. Be honest. Either admit you have no direct knowledge of his experience or come clean and tell us exactly what you know.

My comments were based on my observations of his posts and I stand by my comments.

You have repeatedly demonstrated how extremely biased you are - accordingly I discount much of what you have to say.

Actually, nothing in mtry's posts corresponds to your ad hominem attacks, which are based on pure speculation. As often happens, pure speculation results in errors, and you are in error here. Since you lack the facts, you simply make up some in order to discredit him.

Your alternative is not the only one, so you are setting up a false dichotomy. I have visited mtry and have a pretty good idea what he has and the level of his knowledge and experience. You haven't . What I know about him is really none of your business.

[mtrycraft]

I could care less about your questioning, other than it has become unbelievably predictable and boring. Your comments about "belief" systems are wholly irrelevant and unresponsive to any point I was making. Typical mudslinging.

You are the one who has demonstrated beyond question a blind adherence to faith in an extrenely shallow and unquestioning form of "science".

Better to rely on science than to be blinded by faith.
Interesting that the faithful is so predictable as well, isn't it? Of course, they do not and cannot change their beliefs. Science is self correcting on the other hand.
Mudslinging? That depends on your viewing angle, isn't it?

[mtrycraft]

You will never know

rw

Ah, so now you are claiming some extraordinary abilities for your hearing? That is funny. Actually it is most likely average in the bell curve. Why is that so hard to predict?

[E-Stat]

Ah, so now you are claiming some extraordinary abilities for your hearing? That is funny. Actually it is most likely average in the bell curve. Why is that so hard to predict?

You really don't get it, do you? It is not a matter of "superior" hearing capabilities. There is a vast difference between data and information. Your shallow response punctuates your lack of experience. Those who live only through the eyes of others will never see. I'll defer to Leonardo da Vinci for my reply:

"Experience never errs; what alone may err is our judgement, which predicts effects that cannot be produced by our experiments."

rw

[Geoffcin]

You really don't get it, do you? It is not a matter of "superior" hearing capabilities. There is a vast difference between data and information. Your shallow response punctuates your lack of experience. Those who live only through the eyes of others will never see. I'll defer to Leonardo da Vinci for my reply:

"Experience never errs; what alone may err is our judgement, which predicts effects that cannot be produced by our experiments."

rw

Hi E-stat

It's wasted bandwith on Mtr. From the body of his posts it's obvious that he's absolutely sure of his facts, even though he's never done any observations of his own.

[hifitommy]

....................... ;^)

[mtrycraft]

Hi E-stat

It's wasted bandwith on Mtr. From the body of his posts it's obvious that he's absolutely sure of his facts, even though he's never done any observations of his own.

My facts? You, nor they have naot shown any facts, just empty claims. You better examin all your claims; where are the facts? Nowhere.

[mtrycraft]

You really don't get it, do you? It is not a matter of "superior" hearing capabilities. There is a vast difference between data and information. Your shallow response punctuates your lack of experience. Those who live only through the eyes of others will never see. I'll defer to Leonardo da Vinci for my reply:

"Experience never errs; what alone may err is our judgement, which predicts effects that cannot be produced by our experiments."

rw

Nothing more is needed for an empty claim.

[E-Stat]

Nothing more is needed for an empty claim.

If you're lucky, in time you will know.

Congratulations on a rare post containing no misspelled words. You had two in the last one.

rw

[hifitommy]

key word-observations. whereas we have been labeled in the past as subjectivists vs the objectivists of the dbt type, harry (hp of tas) hit the nail on the head with 'observationists'.

when i have been fortunate to have been present for demos of the highest quality, and been immersed in a wash of detail before unheard, i felt lucky to be able to observe these differences.

likewise, i have observed sales hype in a couple of well respected stores by overeager moneygrabbers, especially when subwoofers were first coming to the fore (back in the 70s). at both of these demos, i called the salesperson to task and met with ferocity people get testy when you threaten their moneybag.

i was already accustomed to low frequencies well done and integrated with the rest of the sonic spectrum. what you are more or less saying now is that we ( I ) only imagine that the sound i hear is of high quality. believe what you will. i will continue to slap the good ole boys on the back when they hear some imagined excellence at hp's place (oh, and did you know about the secret handshake and decoder ring?) and you all can sit nodding and yessing to each other over your graphs and statistical tables.