Next Gen of Audiophiles Hiding in Plain Sight???

[E-Stat]

Guys, I don't share all the gloom and doom voiced here. We're headed towards third world status? Audio is dead? Wha?

As for me, I think this is a golden age for those who really love music. Good quality gear has never been cheaper. Everyone can afford taking their favorite music mobile with incredible flexibility. Instead of being limited to radio or a single cassette, one can fit a library in their compact player. Not to mention having a CD changer or iPod dock in your car. There has never been more choices in terms of music deployment. Vinyl is still very much available and there are multiple digital formats, most of which can be centrally stored in a computer environment for immediate access. Compact bookshelf speakers today are incredibly good. For the crazies like me, available sound quality has never been better. The used market brims with great deals and with the internet, we have easy access to finding it. NOS tubes are easily found. And - as this forum demonstrates - there is an incredible source of sharing experience with others that never existed in the alleged "heyday" of audio. Call me an incurable optimist, but I can't imagine things in audio being any better for us!

rw

[Feanor]

Guys, I don't share all the gloom and doom voiced here. We're headed towards third world status? Audio is dead? Wha?

...

It's just me, 'Stat. Just me, but then I could be right.

[Ajani]

Guys, I don't share all the gloom and doom voiced here. We're headed towards third world status? Audio is dead? Wha?

As for me, I think this is a golden age for those who really love music. Good quality gear has never been cheaper. Everyone can afford taking their favorite music mobile with incredible flexibility. Instead of being limited to radio or a single cassette, one can fit a library in their compact player. Not to mention having a CD changer or iPod dock in your car. There has never been more choices in terms of music deployment. Vinyl is still very much available and there are multiple digital formats, most of which can be centrally stored in a computer environment for immediate access. Compact bookshelf speakers today are incredibly good. For the crazies like me, available sound quality has never been better. The used market brims with great deals and with the internet, we have easy access to finding it. NOS tubes are easily found. And - as this forum demonstrates - there is an incredible source of sharing experience with others that never existed in the alleged "heyday" of audio. Call me an incurable optimist, but I can't imagine things in audio being any better for us!

rw

Well said... That's exactly the point I've been trying to convey... That there is so much opportunity for someone interested in music or Hi-Fi today... The musical selections are endless... the formats are varied as well...

And even though I hear persons complaining about how there is a decline in the middle of the market for hi-fi gear; There are still virtually endless ways to assemble a good 2 channel setup for ANY budget... There is no shortage of quality new or used gear available...

Yes, 2 Channel Hi-Fi might not be the focus of every electronics store on the corner anymore (as is claimed to have existed in the 70s), but that in no way means that hi-fi is dead or even dying...

[poppachubby]

Well said... That's exactly the point I've been trying to convey... That there is so much opportunity for someone interested in music or Hi-Fi today... The musical selections are endless... the formats are varied as well...

And even though I hear persons complaining about how there is a decline in the middle of the market for hi-fi gear; There are still virtually endless ways to assemble a good 2 channel setup for ANY budget... There is no shortage of quality new or used gear available...

Yes, 2 Channel Hi-Fi might not be the focus of every electronics store on the corner anymore (as is claimed to have existed in the 70s), but that in no way means that hi-fi is dead or even dying...

No, actually your original point was concerning Ipod/portable and headphone users entering a higher bracket.

My comments are simple. Sure. OK. A dac and headphones can be considered Hi-Fi. But I find it ironic for someone like yourself, who reveres this hobby so much, to really beleive that this is good enough.

It kind of mocks those who have made real effort to find a path and arrive at their chosen "nirvana". I suppose for some, headphones could very well represent the best of hi-fi. I simply don't see it that way.

Yes, there are tons of options out there for us all. The real question is, do non-audiophiles care? I personally think that many simply don't, and this is the "decline" I'm talking about. Maybe decline is a bad word... Anyhow, I don't think a pair of upgraded headphones constitutes much, even if they are on head-fi.com.

[Ajani]

My comments are simple. Sure. OK. A dac and headphones can be considered Hi-Fi. But I find it ironic for someone like yourself, who reveres this hobby so much, to really beleive that this is good enough.

It kind of mocks those who have made real effort to find a path and arrive at their chosen "nirvana". I suppose for some, headphones could very well represent the best of hi-fi. I simply don't see it that way.

Since reviews of headphones from just about all the major Hi-Fi mags regard them as being genuine high-end at incredibly cheap prices (relative to speakers), I think my point of view that they are Hi-Fi is more than justified...

Your point that "A dac and headphones can be considered Hi-Fi" is based solely on your own prejudices....

Sam Tellig's review of the AKG K701's in Stereophile pretty much sums up why many persons respect headphones greatly:

"Why mess around with speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars when you can have this?"

I have no issue if you want to spend every last cent you earn on Loudspeakers, amplification and room treatments, but that in no way diminishes the quality of a headphone setup...

Since clearly you just don't regard headphones as being real hi-fi based on your own prejudices, I won't spend any further time debating the subject with you... Enough experts rate headphones highly, that I don't need to convince you... I'll continue to enjoy my high quality rig and you can continue to enjoy yours...

[Luvin Da Blues]

I have no issue if you want to spend every last cent you earn on Loudspeakers, amplification and room treatments, but that in no way diminishes the quality of a headphone setup...

Some music just lends itself better to headphones, some to speakers. Completely different presentation. I really wish I could afford a real nice set of cans/headamp but I've spent enough on the main rig for now. Maybe next year.

[Ajani]

Some music just lends itself better to headphones. Completely different presentation.

Same thing with Vinyl, CD, SACD, Tubes, Solid State, Electrostats, Horns, Cone Speakers, etc... Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses... And depending on your musical tastes and listening preferences, one or the other would serve you best....

I really wish I could afford a real nice set of cans/headamp but I've spent too much on the main rig for now. Maybe next year.

Despite my love of headphones, I'd certainly put together a reference listening room with a pair of Soundlabs/Revel Ultima Saloons if I had the chance... I'd probably even setup a vinyl rig for the fun of it... Variety is always good... Just ask Tiger Woods

[pixelthis]

Since reviews of headphones from just about all the major Hi-Fi mags regard them as being genuine high-end at incredibly cheap prices (relative to speakers), I think my point of view that they are Hi-Fi is more than justified...

Your point that "A dac and headphones can be considered Hi-Fi" is based solely on your own prejudices....

Sam Tellig's review of the AKG K701's in Stereophile pretty much sums up why many persons respect headphones greatly:

"Why mess around with speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars when you can have this?"

I have no issue if you want to spend every last cent you earn on Loudspeakers, amplification and room treatments, but that in no way diminishes the quality of a headphone setup...

Since clearly you just don't regard headphones as being real hi-fi based on your own prejudices, I won't spend any further time debating the subject with you... Enough experts rate headphones highly, that I don't need to convince you... I'll continue to enjoy my high quality rig and you can continue to enjoy yours...

OUCH!
Somebody got his toes stepped on!
I have a 80$ set of cans and thats all I need, and I listen quite a bit to them.
But "canned" music has a distinct sound, and to each his own, but nothing will ever beat a
decent set of bookshelves(speakers).
As for the "next gen" of audiophilliacs, will they ever know what its like to build a receiver from a kit?
A true piece of audio gear is wood and metal, or at least metal.
I laugh when I SEE SOMEONE pay five grand for a SET amp when I could build one with
second hand parts, a schematic, and a soldering iron.
But that is probably in the past, a rack of gear lovingly collected by hook or crook, second hand, new, repaired.
"Sigh".

[Ajani]

OUCH!
Somebody got his toes stepped on!

It's the same (well mine is probably a more civilized reaction) that you see when some clown tells another audiophile that his carefully researched, auditioned, setup and expensive Naim gear is not real Hi-Fi...

OR

That his B&W 802D are just overpriced mass market junk that can be bettered by a $2K set of PSB speakers or a pair of Maggie MMGs....

OR

That his $30K CD Player has a harsh digital sound that could be bettered by a $1K turntable....

OR

That his reference Tube Integrated Amp is crap, because it don't measure as well as a cheap Solid State Receiver...

Trying to define High End as being limited to our individual sonic preferences is shear stupidity and is the cause of most disagreements I've seen between audiophiles...

I have a 80$ set of cans and thats all I need, and I listen quite a bit to them.
But "canned" music has a distinct sound, and to each his own, but nothing will ever beat a
decent set of bookshelves(speakers).

Yes Cans have their own advantages and disadvantages... It's a matter of preference... Their are many Can users who would never switch to a pair of speakers, as they much prefer the sound of Cans...

As for the "next gen" of audiophilliacs, will they ever know what its like to build a receiver from a kit?

Some do... There are many DIYers on Head-Fi...

[Feanor]

It's the same (well mine is probably a more civilized reaction) that you see when some clown tells another audiophile that his carefully researched, auditioned, setup and expensive Naim gear is not real Hi-Fi...

OR

That his B&W 802D are just overpriced mass market junk that can be bettered by a $2K set of PSB speakers or a pair of Maggie MMGs....

OR

That his $30K CD Player has a harsh digital sound that could be bettered by a $1K turntable....

OR

That his reference Tube Integrated Amp is crap, because it don't measure as well as a cheap Solid State Receiver...

Trying to define High End as being limited to our individual sonic preferences is shear stupidity and is the cause of most disagreements I've seen between audiophiles...
...

Yes Cans have their own advantages and disadvantages... It's a matter of preference... Their are many Can users who would never switch to a pair of speakers, as they much prefer the sound of Cans...
...

Some do... There are many DIYers on Head-Fi...

It's a problem I have; the inability to politely nod and smile when people utter nonsense. It's been career-limiting for one thing.

Yes, I guess it is crassly rude to dismiss the supposed benefit of a person's gigabuck system as being a matter of taste or, worse, imagination. Civility is important.

Civility should perhaps be paramount when it comes to hifi systems but maybe not so much when it comes to global warning or healthcare.

[poppachubby]

It's the same (well mine is probably a more civilized reaction) that you see when some clown tells another audiophile that his carefully researched, auditioned, setup and expensive Naim gear is not real Hi-Fi...

OR

That his B&W 802D are just overpriced mass market junk that can be bettered by a $2K set of PSB speakers or a pair of Maggie MMGs....

OR

That his $30K CD Player has a harsh digital sound that could be bettered by a $1K turntable....

OR

That his reference Tube Integrated Amp is crap, because it don't measure as well as a cheap Solid State Receiver...

Trying to define High End as being limited to our individual sonic preferences is shear stupidity and is the cause of most disagreements I've seen between audiophiles...



Yes Cans have their own advantages and disadvantages... It's a matter of preference... Their are many Can users who would never switch to a pair of speakers, as they much prefer the sound of Cans...

None of these things are relevant here. I'm starting to think you enjoy being a martyr. It has been acknowledged that your set up is indeed hi-fi. I don't think the guy upgrading his Ipod headphones is hi-fi, whether he has a dac/amp or not. I also don't think that will particularily lead him anywhere or prompt him to buy anything later in life. We have agreed, our philosophies are different. Just like you don't want to hear about analog having a "soul", and want to see numbers and whatever else. Fine. Let's get back to the topic, the one that YOU posted.

You keep citing Head-Fi, but if you look at Head-Fi's numbers, they really aren't that encouraging. Approx. 115 000 members. Audioreview has 65 000, and we know they aren't all flag waving audiophiles. Head-Fi's percentages are probably even worse.

Even assuming that every single member of Head-Fi is a guerilla headphone enthusiast, against the population of even just the Americas.....so what!?! I think if you want numbers to satisfy your point, you should probably look at a place like Best Buy's receipts.

They have had a banner year, although I don't know how it breaks down in terms of sales. Headphones possibly? More likely cell phones and gadgets...