New set-up does not sound the way it should.

I just purchased a Yamaha RX-V673 A/V receiver, a pair of PSB G1 speakers, and a set of anticable speaker wires, for a stereo set-up. The problem I am having is that the sound does not come out sounding particularly "full". I have a feeling that it may have something to do with the bass. Could it have something to do with the bass cross over? I don't even know if that plays a role in a stereo set-up. Right now I have it set at 80hz. What would make the bass sound "fuller" raising or lowering it. Is it even disable with my speakers? I did the YPAO automatic set-up and played with various settings to no avail. My speaker stats are below if that helps. Any advice on enhancing my sound would be greatly appreciated.

Frequency Response: Lf Cutoff -10 dB, 32 Hz; (-6 dB) 38 - 23,000 Hz
Sensitivity (1w (2.83V) @ 1m, IEC-filtered Pink Noise, C-weighted): Anechoic Chamber, 86 dB; Typical Listening Room, 88 dB
Impedance: Nominal, 6 Ohms; Minimum, 4 Ohms
Input Power (RMS,Clipping < 10% of the Time): Recommended, 15-200 Watts; Program, 100 Watts
Crossover: 2,200 Hz, B3
Internal Volume Design Type: 0.50 cu ft (14 liter)
Dimensions: 8-1/2" wide, 15-3/8" high, 11-1/2" deep
Weight: 18.5 lbs. each

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Originally Posted by TheReturnOfJj

I just purchased a Yamaha RX-V673 A/V receiver, a pair of PSB G1 speakers, and a set of anticable speaker wires, for a stereo set-up. The problem I am having is that the sound does not come out sounding particularly "full". I have a feeling that it may have something to do with the bass. Could it have something to do with the bass cross over? I don't even know if that plays a role in a stereo set-up. Right now I have it set at 80hz. What would make the bass sound "fuller" raising or lowering it. Is it even disable with my speakers? I did the YPAO automatic set-up and played with various settings to no avail. My speaker stats are below if that helps. Any advice on enhancing my sound would be greatly appreciated.

Frequency Response: Lf Cutoff -10 dB, 32 Hz; (-6 dB) 38 - 23,000 Hz
Sensitivity (1w (2.83V) @ 1m, IEC-filtered Pink Noise, C-weighted): Anechoic Chamber, 86 dB; Typical Listening Room, 88 dB
Impedance: Nominal, 6 Ohms; Minimum, 4 Ohms
Input Power (RMS,Clipping < 10% of the Time): Recommended, 15-200 Watts; Program, 100 Watts
Crossover: 2,200 Hz, B3
Internal Volume Design Type: 0.50 cu ft (14 liter)
Dimensions: 8-1/2" wide, 15-3/8" high, 11-1/2" deep
Weight: 18.5 lbs. each

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What you need to do is set your bass management to full range. You don't have a subwoofer, and by setting the bass management to 80hz, your are sending your bass into nowhere.

Bass management is only to be used in the presence of a subwoofer.

Ditto! You are running a 2ch rig not a multichannel home theater set up. Therefore you do not want to cut off the bass and you do not need the YPAO set up. In addition, those speakers will need a period of time to break in to sound their best. Probably some where between 20-100 hrs of play time.

How am I cutting off the bass?

Deep, satisfying bass with most rock/popular/jazz music goes down to around 30-40Hz, and even lower with pipe organ music. When you set a crossover frequency as high as 80Hz, you're rolling off all that deep bass. "Rolloff" means the level of low frequencies decrease as you go downward in frequency range. One other thing, according to the speaker specs you listed, the LF cutoff is -20dB @ 32Hz, meaning the bass level is down 20 decibels at 32Hz. That is a pretty significant bass rolloff. You can try placing the speakers closer to the rear walls to help reinforce the low frequencies.

Does that mean I should go down to 60hz maybe even 40hz? 80hz was the default from the a/v.

Yes go down to 40Hz, or 30Hz if available. Experiment.

Learn to love your owners manual. Every receiver is different and nobody here knows the intricate ins and outs of every one.

That being said, find the appropiate menu/setting and set your subwoofer to "No" or "Off". This will route all the signal to your main speakers.

If that doesn't work, as a previous poster stated, set the crossover to as low a number as possible.

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Originally Posted by TheReturnOfJj

I just purchased a Yamaha RX-V673 A/V receiver, a pair of PSB G1 speakers, and a set of anticable speaker wires, for a stereo set-up.

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Just curious: Is there a particular reason why you chose the Yamaha AVR over an integrated amplifier for your 2 channel rig?

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Originally Posted by TheReturnOfJj

Does that mean I should go down to 60hz maybe even 40hz? 80hz was the default from the a/v.

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Like Sir T said, forget the crossover altogether. Using it to any degree simply rolls of bass.

Set speakers to "full range" with no cutoff frequency.

On Page 64 of the Yamaha RX-V673 user manual, it states, in the LFE effects menu setup to select "front" speakers, so that all bass sounds are directed to the right and left front speakers.

I do not really know anything about amps. Plus, I like to have the possibility of upgrading my system down the road.

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Originally Posted by TheReturnOfJj

I do not really know anything about amps.

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Now would be a very good time to learn, what with all this good advice being thrown at you.

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Originally Posted by TheReturnOfJj

Plus, I like to have the possibility of upgrading my system down the road.

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And you think other units will be less complex?

Like I said I don't know. And yeah, it is greatly appreciated.

Did you get the problem solved?

Not really, I am considering trying the speakers on a different receiver. To see if there is something wrong with my equipment. I do appreciate all the help though.

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Originally Posted by TheReturnOfJj

Not really, I am considering trying the speakers on a different receiver. To see if there is something wrong with my equipment. I do appreciate all the help though.

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May I suggest that your expectation of bass quantity may be out of line with what the speakers can actually reproduce This speaker is -6 at 38hz, and -10 at 32hz which means the output of this speaker is falling quickly below 40hz. If you have them in a medium to large size room(or open space), the "knee" of the roll off would be much higher, and the falling off much faster as well.

If you want more bass, perhaps a subwoofer would be in order here. You could go back to the 80hz crossover, and potentially have more bass below that frequency. You could also set up the main speakers for best imaging, and the subwoofer for the best bass.

On your remote there is a button that say's "Pure Direct". This sends everything to your front speakers bypassing all the other circuitry, including subs or any other speakers you have. This is strictly for 2 channel. In essence, your receiver becomes an integrated 2 channel amp.

If this still doesn't do it for you, I might suggest a sub running off of your Left and Right Front Pre outs. (This is for "Pure Direct" mode only) Do not use the Sub Pre Outs in this configuration. If you do, switching to "Pure Direct" will cut the sub out of the circuit.

Your other option with a sub, is to connect the Sub to the Sub Pre Outs and select the "Straight" button on your remote. This mode allows access to speaker configuration and tone controls, which you may have to adjust. The advantage of this configuration is that it works equally well for surround when you get your other speakers.

I hope this helps.

Setting the mains to full range through bass management, and going pure direct will accomplish exactly the same thing - it will send a full range unfiltered signal to the main speakers.

The OP ran Yamaha's auto equalization program, and that will benefit the overall sound of the system even if it is just two channel. If you use pure direct, that equalization will be defeated, and the OP will hear a less refined sound. While the auto EQ is not the best, it is better than nothing at all.

If you are going to use a sub, it is much more simple and easy to use the sub out or LFE out with bass management controlling the crossover point. Running a sub off the pre outs of the L/R mains(and old school two channel mentality) is overly complicated, and not necessary at all. Going this direction causes you to lose the precise high/low pass filters in the receiver which helps subwoofer to main speaker integration. Why make the setup more complicated than necessary, and still not get the best sound?

Those PSB GB Speakers need time to break in. I would run them continuously for 8-12 hours a day for about a week and let the woofers break in. They are not going to give you deep bass. What they will give you is nice tight mid bass. Also, the GB's should have bass ports, make sure that the ports do not have plugs in them. Many speakers with Ports including some PSB models come with foam port plugs that you can use to tighten up the bass but they also decrease the bass. Removing the plugs will give you more prominent bass.

If you have all the settings correct with the Onkyo receiver, it could be that the receiver just does not put out much bass or it could be your music source such as your CD, DVD player, computer or mp3 player. Also try speaker placement. Moving them to the corners of the room will help with bass.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

If you are going to use a sub, it is much more simple and easy to use the sub out or LFE out with bass management controlling the crossover point. Running a sub off the pre outs of the L/R mains(and old school two channel mentality) is overly complicated, and not necessary at all.

Going this direction causes you to lose the precise high/low pass filters in the receiver which helps subwoofer to main speaker integration. Why make the setup more complicated than necessary, and still not get the best sound?

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@ TheReturn0: In response to T's suggestion...

If you're just interested in 2 channel audio, then using the "Pure Direct" button and the L/R Pre-out for a sub, is the much simpler way to go (one button - 2 wires - no menu adjustments). Although I would suggest a sub with a sharp crossover slope. Many of the cheaper subs have a gradual slope and that makes it hard to integrate with your mains. An 18db slope should work well. Stay away from subs with a 6db slope.

If you are running your main speakers full range (Large), there is very little to gain by letting your receiver handle the bass. In fact, it might even make it worse since the sub's crossover point (with the control on the sub) can be more finely adjusted compared to what a receiver usually allows you to do. The only other thing is that going through the receivers circuitry you need to set your speakers up correctly. There is a slight learning curve here, but once you got it, you got it. The advantage of using the receivers circuitry for bass management is that it also allows you to use the tone controls. I should mention too that I have a Yamaha and while its auto adjust works well enough, I tend to adjust the EQ by hand for my preference.

Either setup will work well enough and we are splitting hairs on this issue.

Using the receiver to handle bass and setting your mains to "small" will set the crossover for both the sub and the mains, which is what T is speaking about. Whether it sounds better that way is a determination that only you can make. There is an added advantage of doing it this way and that is bass is removed from the mains allowing them to play a little louder, or lowering the amount of power the receiver needs to feed them during normal play.

With one set of speakers I have, I set the mains to small and used the receivers circuitry to split the bass. With the speakers I am using currently, I run them full range (large).

The bottom line is, what sounds the best to you...

We keep talking about a sub that you don't have. Without the sub gives you two choices for the present configuration. Run the receiver in "Pure Direct" mode or in "Straight" (On your remote) mode which allows you to use your tone controls. There are other options, but you can look into those later. I think "Straight" just bypasses your DSP effects.

As for your setup, go into your menu (if you haven' already done so) and shut off all of your speakers (including sub) except the mains (front). Then set the Front speakers to large. I assume you've already done this. Adjust your EQ (if you want) and you should be finished. There are other adjustments for movies, but this is all you need for music.

I noticed that your EQ is parametric... Great! If you already have everything set up and you're still not happy with the sound, try adjusting the EQ manually. This should really help.

There are many ways to do the same thing or variations, so there are will be omissions in what I've written. Otherwise, it would be confusing.

Good luck!

BTW, The only reason I brought this up in reference to T's suggestion is that there are many ways to skin a cat and many times the results are different. You're the boss here and only you can decide what works best for you.

I have a surround system set up one way. My 2 channel system is set up another way.

Assuming you've done all that is suggested, like sending a full-range signal to those speakers, that woud lead me to question what you think it "should" sound like as opposed to what it "does" sound like.

I don't have those particular speakers but I do have a small bookshelf of the same class* and they do put out quite nice sound for what they are, given the realities of physics. In fact, They're one of my all time favorite speakers.

As others have said, mine will do a very, very credible job with music over most of the audiable range for music but when it gets down to the low lows, it peters out. Likewise, it won't produce chest thumping mid/upper-bass that some larger speakers will. That's to be expected from a passive speaker of this size. This means that for HT use or even the sub-bass notes some synth music produces, a subwoofer is going to needed to bring on the dinosaur stomps.

So, what do you mean by "the way it should" and what are you comparing it with?

* 6 1/2" 2 way Sound Dynamics RTS 3's being driven by 2 50 watt cannels of an old DPL receiver.)

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

What you need to do is set your bass management to full range. You don't have a subwoofer, and by setting the bass management to 80hz, your are sending your bass into nowhere.

Bass management is only to be used in the presence of a subwoofer.

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^ this

Steven is correct, what Sir T said makes sense, but sometimes real world results don't make sense, all the Yamaha AVR's I've heard benefit greatly in "pure direct" mode for music. The break in period is a real event as well. I'm not familiar with PSB, I wonder if this receiver can drive them adequately. The expectation point is valid as well.

Yamaha aside, every time I've heard the auto set up programs used it resulted in a flatter response, I like this personally but I know others who will not turn it on preferring more of a bass hump, I try to explain to them your sub shouldn't be heard on a simple closing of a door but we also try to tell kids that their car stereo should have other frequencies than bass as well which mostly fall on deaf ears :).

I just recently set up my Artison sub where the amp has an EQ built in with microphone. I have one of the Carver CD's with a full frequency sweep. Before the EQ was ran I thought the sub sounded good but I could hear variations as the CD went up in frequency, after the EQ was ran I was amazed at how smooth that track sounded as it went up in frequency, it was quite a noticeable change.

While I understand the idea behind pure direct, I also understand the reality of room acoustics. Putting a receiver in the pure direct mode is one way to skin a cat. But that cat skinning will result a less optimum result when room acoustics are taken into consideration. Bypassing a receivers video circuits is only helpful if those circuits are poorly shielded. We have no evidence that is the case with Yamaha receivers. What we do know is most rooms are not set up acoustically for good sound, and most people do not understand room acoustics enough to grasp how important it is. Hence why they brush aside its importance in favor of a direct mode, which has yet to prove it improves the sound. There is no doubt that taming peaks in modal frequencies(below 200hz) does improves the audio. That is the area where the room is louder than the direct output, and why the direct mode is less beneficial in that area.

Personally, I would rather go for the set up that produces the best sound, than one who's audibility is dubious at best. We are not talking about skinning cats, we are talking about getting the best sound from thus set up.

The importance of this is far from splitting hairs. It is only splitting hairs if you do not have a good understanding of room acoustics, and the role it plays in getting the best sound from your equipment.