New Paint designed to absorb sound.

[jrhymeammo]

Has anybody heard of this? Well, I haven't either. I believe that there is money to be made by inventing this type of paint. Hell, I'll buy gallons of this if some of you guys can gather up some investors to come up with this type of product. I'm a bachelor, so I don't have to worry about the room decor. Think about this guys, this product will definitely be wife-friendly. But....................


depending on how this product will/would be made, it could deaden the room too much. Some people may tell you to only paint on specific areas. It may be very messy to apply since I imagine that it has to be thicker than the ordinary paint. Will it have to be semi-elastic? And, I will guarantee that it will cost $100 a gallon.

What do you guys think? If you do end up inventing this product, I will aceept 1% of the profit every quarter. Thanx

[Woochifer]

Nice idea, if it's even feasible in the first place. Pretty much any sound deadening material can address specific acoustical issues, but any material that you use will have different absorptive/reflective properties at different frequencies, and in most cases will be ineffective with the low frequencies.

But, fixing the room acoustics can involve more than just sound deadening. Those acoustic "popcorn" ceilings that were popular in the 60s and 70s are actually very effective at breaking up reflected sound waves and keeping sound from traveling and interacting with one another at full amplitude. As with absorbing surfaces, their effectiveness wanes with low frequencies.

Who knows, maybe someone's already at work on this idea of sound absorbing paint. Materials science is one of the most interesting areas in technology right now, so it's conceivable.

[dmb_fan]

The problem is that the only two things that deaden sound are mass and distance. There are three acoustic things one might try to do with paint, you can try to block the sound from entering the next room, you can try to absorb high-frequencies or you can try to diffuse high-frequencies. I think you'll find that paint is poorly-suited to all three of these activites.

Consider sound-deadening material like sheetblok from auralex.com It's basically a super-dense 1/8" thick sheet of rubberized foam that weighs 1 pound per square foot and reduces sound transmission by about 27dB on average (more in the high-frequencies, less in the low). In other words, to cover an 8' tall 15' wide wall requires 120 pounds of sheetblok. I personally can't imagine slathering 120 pounds of paint on a wall.

Similarly, acoustic foam for high frequency absorption needs to be very thick to actually absorb significant amounts of sound. 1" thick foam can only make a noticable difference in sounds over 2Khz or so, which is totally tweeter territory in many speakers. To signifactly absorb midrange frequencies, you need foam 3" or 4" thick. The same goes for attempts to diffuse high-frequencies: you need diffusers 3" or 4" thick. That's a lot of paint!

Pretty much the only thing I can imagine paint doing is diffusing very high frequencies when it's laid very unevenly as in the case of the popcorn ceilings Woochifer mentions.

But this much I know for sure: You go buy yerself some home depot paint and repackage it as a "sound absorbing" paint, and some fool audiophile who has no regard for the laws of physics will buy it at a 500% mark-up. That much I GUARANTEE.

[gonefishin]

queit-kote...it sprays like tar


dan

[sam9]

How thick will it be? There is a relationship between sound spectra that can be absorbed and thickness of the absorbtion material.

[RoyY51]

The type of paint that you use on the walls of your listening room CAN make a difference (albeit a small one) in the sound. The higher the gloss level, the more tightly packed the molecules are, and the more reflective the surface. Ideally. you would want the most porous paint that you can find and this would be flat, non-acrylic, clay based crap. Most paints that are marketed as "maintenance grade" (Conco, Old Quaker, anything around $10.00 a gallon) would fit the bill. Also, most products that are sold as ceiling paint would fit into this catagory.
The down side is that these paints are not at all washable, so if you have small children, large animals or frequent food fights, you might want to consider biting the bullet and purchasing some room treatments instead. If not, porous flat paint will definitely improve your sound reflection problem.

Roy, the H.D. paint guy

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The type of paint that you use on the walls of your listening room CAN make a difference (albeit a small one) in the sound. The higher the gloss level, the more tightly packed the molecules are, and the more reflective the surface. Ideally. you would want the most porous paint that you can find and this would be flat, non-acrylic, clay based crap. Most paints that are marketed as "maintenance grade" (Conco, Old Quaker, anything around $10.00 a gallon) would fit the bill. Also, most products that are sold as ceiling paint would fit into this catagory.
The down side is that these paints are not at all washable, so if you have small children, large animals or frequent food fights, you might want to consider biting the bullet and purchasing some room treatments instead. If not, porous flat paint will definitely improve your sound reflection problem.

Roy, the H.D. paint guy

Even if the paint is porus, the object the paint is being put on isn't. If it is solid, it will reflect sound. The paint is essentially insignificant in this instance.

[mickeyb]

A number of manufacturer's make sound absobing paint. It's used in conjuction w/ special plasters, gyp systems etc.

[mixadude]

Rhino Coat makes quite a difference on speaker cabinets. It not only improves the seal, it also helps damp many resonances.

[Groundbeef]

Wow, a thread over 2 years old. Brought back from the dead.

I have some expertise in the area of paint. Typical paint thickness on a retail application is 4 mils wet (1 mil dry). That is slightly thicker than a plastic wrapper on a cigarette pack.

You would be better served to purchase window treatments (drapes), carpeting, and furniture than waste your money on "sound absorbing paint". About the only thing that would possibly do it would be to popcorn the heck out of the walls, and paint that. But again, the paint isn't doing the work. The popcorn is.

As far as the bathroom/living room example, its just that. Chances are, your bathroom isn't as open as your living room. And it doens't have a couch in it, or carpet (gross if you do), or drapes.

Paint is paint. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to affect the acoustics of a room, it doesn't come in a can.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Paint is paint. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to affect the acoustics of a room, it doesn't come in a can.

What if you mounted the paint cans on the wall?

[Groundbeef]

What if you mounted the paint cans on the wall?

There's always one in the crowd isn't there? You really ought to be more serious on this board. Like me.

BTW, mounting the cans on the wall is just stupid. Anyone "in the know" realizes that its best to simply put the can over your head. That "captures" the acustics of the room perfectly.

[mixadude]

Or you can place them round the room for bass traps if they're big enough.

That Rhino coat goes on thick, for speakers we have it put on up to 1/4 thick. I suppose it could be put on walls, but it would be very heavy and expensive.

[Groundbeef]

Or you can place them round the room for bass traps if they're big enough.

That Rhino coat goes on thick, for speakers we have it put on up to 1/4 thick. I suppose it could be put on walls, but it would be very heavy and expensive.

The difference between Rhino and regular wall paint, is that it is designed for specific usage. Paint for walls is simply not either feasible (using wall paint) or cost effective (using paint designed for small areas in 1/4 coatings). It is much easier to apply a 1/4" coat on an area 1'x2' and have evan coverage versus an entire room.

Without getting too techincal, there ARE coatings that can be applied up to 1/4". Typically these would be exterior such as an elastomeric coating (impervious to wind driven rain, used on exterior block or tilt up), or some sort of expoy. Most likely either a coal-tar (for containment tanks usually steel, but sometimes concrete). Neither of these coatings can be used by amatures, or applied by brush/roller.

Plus, as an added bonus, the coal tar would kill you outright if applied indoors. Nasty stuff. Think sewage treatment plants. Thats where its used most often, followed by dams, etc.

Again, paint isn't a viable solution for controlling sound. There are many other options that are cheaper, easier to use, and cost efficient. Not to mention effective.

[bobsticks]

Has anybody heard of this? Well, I haven't either. I believe that there is money to be made by inventing this type of paint. Hell, I'll buy gallons of this if some of you guys can gather up some investors to come up with this type of product. I'm a bachelor, so I don't have to worry about the room decor. Think about this guys, this product will definitely be wife-friendly. But....................


depending on how this product will/would be made, it could deaden the room too much. Some people may tell you to only paint on specific areas. It may be very messy to apply since I imagine that it has to be thicker than the ordinary paint. Will it have to be semi-elastic? And, I will guarantee that it will cost $100 a gallon.

What do you guys think? If you do end up inventing this product, I will aceept 1% of the profit every quarter. Thanx

Let's get down to the real deal here Jaybo. You gettin' yelled at again by the neighbor-units for playing that Crunk-Alot!! disc you got at the truckstop?

[Groundbeef]

Let's get down to the real deal here Jaybo. You gettin' yelled at again by the neighbor-units for playing that Crunk-Alot!! disc you got at the truckstop?

Seeing as this thread was started in 2005, and only revived today for god-knows what reason, I would assume its already been resolved.

[bobsticks]

Seeing as this thread was started in 2005, and only revived today for god-knows what reason, I would assume its already been resolved.

Wow, hadn't even noticed that. I thought it was just another one of Jay's desperate pleas for attention.

[Groundbeef]

Wow, hadn't even noticed that. I thought it was just another one of Jay's desperate pleas for attention.

I just gave you a greenie for being such a helper. Keep it up. Maybe you can pass GM again.

[bobsticks]

I just gave you a greenie for being such a helper. Keep it up. Maybe you can pass GM again.

NNNOOOOO!!!

can't take the pressure...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

This thread is off the curb.....and into traffic. First sound waves do not see paint, they see hard services. The sheen of the paint is not going to make a bit of difference at low frequencies, and there is no acoustical evidence it would effect the highs either. There is tones of acoustical research out there attributed to the effect of the shape of a space, the give of the walls, curves and reflective shapes, types of acoustical materials and their effectiveness at different frequencies, but I see zero on the effects of paint.

[jrhymeammo]

I'm still not rich......

Should I sell cans of Audiophile Grade Sherwin Williams on Audiogon? If so how much?

[RoyY51]

This thread is off the curb.....and into traffic. First sound waves do not see paint, they see hard services. The sheen of the paint is not going to make a bit of difference at low frequencies, and there is no acoustical evidence it would effect the highs either. There is tones of acoustical research out there attributed to the effect of the shape of a space, the give of the walls, curves and reflective shapes, types of acoustical materials and their effectiveness at different frequencies, but I see zero on the effects of paint.

It IS amazing that this thread was resurrected after all this time.

Sir Terrence; you're almost there. You're undoubtedly correct when you say that "sound waves do not see paint, they see hard surfaces". The next step is to realize that as a paint gets shinier, it gets harder. Let me say this again; the shinier the paint, the harder the surface. This is why paints with higher sheens are used in kitchens and bathrooms, and on doors and woodwork. The harder surface that a glossy paint provides enables you to clean the surface more easily. A hard, shiny surface releases dirt much easier than a soft, porous one. It also reflects more sound. Stand in the middle of two empty rooms, one painted with semi-gloss, the other with flat. Clap your hands. The difference will immediately be apparent. Not a huge difference, mind you, but a difference nonetheless.

I'm sorry that you haven't been able to confirm this on the internet.I guess that there's just not enough of us painters/audio enthusiasts/forum dwellers around to make an impact on this narrow slice of arcane knowledge.

[Groundbeef]

Stand in the middle of two empty rooms, one painted with semi-gloss, the other with flat. Clap your hands. The difference will immediately be apparent. Not a huge difference, mind you, but a difference nonetheless.

I'm sorry that you haven't been able to confirm this on the internet.I guess that there's just not enough of us painters/audio enthusiasts/forum dwellers around to make an impact on this narrow slice of arcane knowledge.

Perhaps. But both rooms need to be of identical size and shape for the test to make any sort of difference.

For example, tear out the carpet, and replace with hardwood. Hi-Gloss paint, or Flat paint, it's going to be a moot point. Carpet makes more of a difference.

Or, in your example, take a High-Gloss room, and put in some drapes, or other wall baffles. Then take another room, same dimensions, and painted in High-Gloss. Now simply paint it Flat.

The room with the baffles, or drapes will have less echo, than the flat paint room without treatments.

Paint is paint. It's not a sound treatment. Whatever minor, marginal difference between Flat/High-Gloss can be easily lost with other simple changes (adding furniture, window treatments, carpet, etc).

Another way would be to examine 2 cars. Does a car painted in high-gloss auto paint drive any faster than that of the same car painted in primer? Doubtful. And yet the High-gloss paint is "less" wind resistant because its a glossy finish.

There are many variables that can affect sound. Your chosen paint finish is somewhere near the bottom.

[jrhymeammo]

Let's get down to the real deal here Jaybo. You gettin' yelled at again by the neighbor-units for playing that Crunk-Alot!! disc you got at the truckstop?

Pleeze. Com'n talk to me when you are ready to step up to cans of high resolution paint. Now that's Bigg Ballin'

JRA

[bobsticks]

Pleeze. Com'n talk to me when you are ready to step up to cans of high resolution paint. Now that's Bigg Ballin'

JRA

You wanna go big ballin' wit the best b? Comawn down to these parts and check out my Postiche Audio audiophile paint bro. Made from the rarest of Persian oils and pigments found only in the Amazon rainforests...you can't hang. And the fuschia is to die for.