New "Hi-Fi Tuning Fuses"

[emaidel]

A while back, I posted a thread extolling the virtues of the Hi-Fi Tuning Fuses I had installed in my DQ-10's (one "main" and one in the path of the tweeters). I found a very significant improvement in the overall sound of the speakers from the installation of these babies, and would now like to replace the five fuses in my Adcom GFA-5800 amp with them, especially since the fuses were designed primarily for electronic equipment rather than speakers. My question is: the fuses are listed as "ABC" fuses, 10 Amps and 250 Volts. Does anybody know if "ABC" means fast, or slow blow?

The fuses are currently on sale for $34.95 (down from $39.95) at all online retailers who sell them, but spending over $150 for five fuses, only to buy the wrong ones is something I really don't want to do.

Naturally, I"ll post my observations once I install the correct fuses, and I hope that will be as praiseworthy a comment on them as was my post regarding installing them in my speakers.

[Feanor]

A while back, I posted a thread extolling the virtues of the Hi-Fi Tuning Fuses I had installed in my DQ-10's (one "main" and one in the path of the tweeters). I found a very significant improvement in the overall sound of the speakers from the installation of these babies, and would now like to replace the five fuses in my Adcom GFA-5800 amp with them, especially since the fuses were designed primarily for electronic equipment rather than speakers. My question is: the fuses are listed as "ABC" fuses, 10 Amps and 250 Volts. Does anybody know if "ABC" means fast, or slow blow?

The fuses are currently on sale for $34.95 (down from $39.95) at all online retailers who sell them, but spending over $150 for five fuses, only to buy the wrong ones is something I really don't want to do.

Naturally, I"ll post my observations once I install the correct fuses, and I hope that will be as praiseworthy a comment on them as was my post regarding installing them in my speakers.

Don't know off hand, but why not look at the Parts ConneXion site where the product listings are relatively clear and easy to understand.

The idea of replacing the fuse at the power input seems far-fetched to me and I wouldn't squander my money on it. If there happens to be fuses between the transformer and the large, power supply capacitors, I wouldn't worry about these either. On the other hand, upgrading fuses after the p/s capacitors and before the actual amp circuits would seem to have good potential for an improvement.

[Luvin Da Blues]

emaidel, ABCs are fast-acting fuses whereas MDAs are the time-delay (slow-blow) fuses.

[emaidel]

emaidel, ABCs are fast-acting fuses whereas MDAs are the time-delay (slow-blow) fuses.

That's the information I needed. Thanks.

[hifitommy]

the line fuse isnt likely to improve the sound but the internal fuses (the other four) are in the speaker output power path, just as the ones in your dahlquists. in the speakers is a FINE place for the fuses.

i have an adcom 555II which i love the sound of and have given some thought to putting those fuses in the amp. still, the cost is rather high for fuses and they are delicate.

once while playing the LP of mickey hart's DAFOS, all four of the fuses vaporized when the 'beast' hit the floor. POOF, that could be $120 at those prices. keeping a bunch of extras seems to be not cost effective.

[emaidel]

Well, I took the plunge and shelled out $200 for five fuses, plus overnight shipping, and they arrived yesterday.

The first thing I did was replace the main power fuse to see if the Hi-Fi Tuning fuse made any difference. Well, it certainly did, though the difference was subtle. There was a noticeable increase in upper-end definition, and a bit more "oomph" in the dynamics. That even this amount of difference could be had simply by replacing a line fuse is amazing.

But what was truly amazing was the sound after replacing the remaining four fuses. If I were to make an analogy, it would be the same as the before and after if you have your car tuned up, put on new tires, and have the wheels balanced and aligned: while the car may have performed well before, now everything works better. It starts more easily; it runs more smoothly; the transmission shifts more readily; the handling is better; and it rides more smoothly. In short, while good before, it's a whole lot better now.

I haven't yet had the time to do any extended listening, but each and every disc I played yesterday sounded remarkably better than it had before, along with that familiar and pleasant, "Gee, I've never heard that before..." sensation.. There is as huge improvement in upper end detail, and in particular, the delineation of individual sounds as opposed to one, homogenous sound, especially when there's a lot going on, as in a massed choral piece with the entire chorus singing along with the orchestra playing. Pin-point stereo imaging, something my Dahlquist DQ-10's have long been famous for, is also noticeably improved. In short, everything sounds better, and much better at that.

The Adcom GFA-5800 is a very good amp. Nelson Pass, who designed the amp, has called it the best sounding amp Adcom ever made (perhaps a bit of personal bias here?" I've always been satisfied with its performance, and it seems a perfect match for the DQ-10's, offering 250 watts/channel, and high current, which is what the speakers eat up. Now, it sounds almost like a "new & improved" model, it's that much better!

Once again, my highest recommendation goes to these fuses for their remarkable ability to so greatly improve the sound of a given component. No wonder Stereophile lists them as a "recommended component." I certainly do! Now, I can hardly wait to replace the fuses in my other components!

[Feanor]

...
That even this amount of difference could be had simply by replacing a line fuse is amazing.

Indeed ... amazing.

...
But what was truly amazing was the sound after replacing the remaining four fuses. If I were to make an analogy, it would be the same as the before and after if you have your car tuned up, put on new tires, and have the wheels balanced and aligned: while the car may have performed well before, now everything works better. It starts more easily; it runs more smoothly; the transmission shifts more readily; the handling is better; and it rides more smoothly. In short, while good before, it's a whole lot better now.
...

I have yet to get around to trying the fuse in my amps or preamp but do have them in my Magneplanars. I feel I hear a difference on account of the fuses which, however, is very slight at best. My analogy would like wiping a fine layer of dust from your TV screen.

[bfalls]

The first thing I did was replace the main power fuse to see if the Hi-Fi Tuning fuse made any difference. Well, it certainly did, though the difference was subtle. There was a noticeable increase in upper-end definition, and a bit more "oomph" in the dynamics. That even this amount of difference could be had simply by replacing a line fuse is amazing.

Specs:
250V Small - 5 X 20mm (.75") Pure silver wire. Pure Silver end-caps with intermediate copper plating layer, finished with pure Gold plating, and cryogenically treated

500V Large - 6 X 32mm (1.25") Pure silver wire. Brass end-caps, with intermediate pure Silver plating, followed by Copper plating layer, and finished with pure Gold plating, and cryogenically treated.


I'm thinking more unbelievable than "amazing". To what do you attribute the change? The materials, plating and cryogenic treatment seem to point to less resistance, but this would change the fuses current rating. Is it the cryogenic treatment? What about the wiring and circuit board runs the fuse is connected to? How does treating 1" of metal in the entire signal/power supply path make things better overall? It's like putting a 1' gold pipe in a water line and saying it makes the water taste better (OK maybe a gold-plated, ceramic coated, cryogenically-treated pipe to be fair) . Do you have improved readings to support what your ears are hearing? Did the manufacturer provide supporting data? Sounds like "snake oil" to me. Could it be possible you're listening more attentively and noticing more? Or expecting a change since paying $40 for a fuse just has to make a change?

I can understand how speaker and power cables can change sound. A speaker wire's resistance, inductance and capacitance change with length and better shielding and connections can reduce EMF and RF interference in a power cable. But "Tuning Fuses" sounds like another way of separating the consumer from their money. IMOHO At $40 a pop for a consumable, I think the money could be better spent.

[emaidel]

I'm thinking more unbelievable than "amazing". To what do you attribute the change? The materials, plating and cryogenic treatment seem to point to less resistance, but this would change the fuses current rating. Is it the cryogenic treatment? What about the wiring and circuit board runs the fuse is connected to? How does treating 1" of metal in the entire signal/power supply path make things better overall? It's like putting a 1' gold pipe in a water line and saying it makes the water taste better (OK maybe a gold-plated, ceramic coated, cryogenically-treated pipe to be fair) . Do you have improved readings to support what your ears are hearing? Did the manufacturer provide supporting data? Sounds like "snake oil" to me. Could it be possible you're listening more attentively and noticing more? Or expecting a change since paying $40 for a fuse just has to make a change?

I can understand how speaker and power cables can change sound. A speaker wire's resistance, inductance and capacitance change with length and better shielding and connections can reduce EMF and RF interference in a power cable. But "Tuning Fuses" sounds like another way of separating the consumer from their money. IMOHO At $40 a pop for a consumable, I think the money could be better spent.

I guess I should have expected something like this. If you doubt me, which you clearly do, then why not try out one or two yourself, and see whether or not you hear a difference. If you don't, then it wasn't worth your effort, and all you've wasted is $40 to $80, and a few minutes of your time.

Remember, I'm not the only one who hears a difference with these fuses. Stereophile gave them quite a glowing review, and listed them as a "Recommended Component," after clearly stating their doubts that a fuse in and of itself could ever make a difference, then being all but delighted by the fact that they did.

There are those who use these fuses (myself being one of them, obviously) who hear the difference they make, and have taken the time to outline our experiences for others to read here at AR for their own benefit. If someone else tries out these fuses, and likes them as much as I have, then all the better. If you don't think they make any difference - and have no personal experience to state that they don't - and keep the insults to yourself.

[E-Stat]

But "Tuning Fuses" sounds like another way of separating the consumer from their money. IMOHO At $40 a pop for a consumable, I think the money could be better spent.

Speculation only gets you so far. A significant improvement I made to my older set of electrostats was to wire around the fuse block altogether. This I did only after having used them for twenty years and not having blown more than one fuse.

Based upon Emaidel's experience, I think I'll try replacing the fuses in my current speakers. The GamuT CDP uses small, funky euro fuses which may not be available. And the B+ fuses in the VTL amps are large ceramic 600V jobs.

rw

[JoeE SP9]

I had a copper rod that was the right diameter. I cut 2 pieces fuse length and replaced the fuses in my Spectra's. They've been that way for the last 8 years or so. The Model 1's got the same treatment when I got them 4 years ago.

[Luvin Da Blues]

I had a copper rod that was the right diameter. I cut 2 pieces fuse length and replaced the fuses in my Spectra's. They've been that way for the last 8 years or so. The Model 1's got the same treatment when I got them 4 years ago.

So any spike above1000 amps yer good then.

[Luvin Da Blues]

It would be interesting to rig up a 2 cct fuse block and SPDT switch to do a blind A/B test.

[Luvin Da Blues]

I guess I should have expected something like this.

Your the only one that has to hear a difference and as long as you like the change, who cares what others think.

[hifitommy]

but if you read my DAFOS saga above, you can see where i might be hesitant. but i've been a good boy for a while so maybe i'll get four and try em. well, maybe 6, there's one in each of my MMGs.

[JoeE SP9]

So any spike above1000 amps yer good then.

If a spike that big comes through nothing will be good!

[Luvin Da Blues]

If a spike that big comes through nothing will be good!

Percisely, there's absolutely no protection below that level.

[JoeE SP9]

Percisely, there's absolutely no protection below that level.

My ESL's don't need any protection. Even if my amps break and put out pure DC the transformer coupled "stats" won't be hurt.

[emaidel]

Two of my friends were over my house last night for dinner, and went into my "music room" to listen to my system. I told them I had "done something" to the system, but didn't tell them what it was, and just asked them to listen and see if they heard anything different. One, who hadn't heard the system in quite some time, said that it sounded great before, and still sounds great, but couldn't tell if anything was different.

The other, who had only heard it a few days ago, listened intently to the first movement of Morten Lauridsen's "Lux Aeterna," and immediately noticed a difference, stating that he was far better able to hear each individual voice of the choir members, and that it sounded more "alive," especially as it got louder and louder. When I told him that all I did was replace fuses, he was quite surprised. He was also more than a bit surprised at the price of the fuses, but agreed that overall, $200 was a small price to pay for such an improvement.

I don't work for the manufacturer of the "Hi-Fi Tuning" fuses, nor do I have anything to gain whatsoever by recommending them. I also find the "cryogenically-tested" statement from the manufacturer more like science-fiction "B" movie mumbo-jumbo dialog than anything else, just as I found the nonsense from the manufacturer of the "Achromat" turntable mat all about molecular "bubbles" making the mat work as it does rather silly. I have to agree though, that both the fuses and that mat make a difference, and honestly, that's really all that matters.

[bfalls]

I guess I should have expected something like this. If you doubt me, which you clearly do, then why not try out one or two yourself, and see whether or not you hear a difference. If you don't, then it wasn't worth your effort, and all you've wasted is $40 to $80, and a few minutes of your time.

Remember, I'm not the only one who hears a difference with these fuses. Stereophile gave them quite a glowing review, and listed them as a "Recommended Component," after clearly stating their doubts that a fuse in and of itself could ever make a difference, then being all but delighted by the fact that they did.

There are those who use these fuses (myself being one of them, obviously) who hear the difference they make, and have taken the time to outline our experiences for others to read here at AR for their own benefit. If someone else tries out these fuses, and likes them as much as I have, then all the better. If you don't think they make any difference - and have no personal experience to state that they don't - and keep the insults to yourself.

I'm only playing Devil's Advocate, nothing personal. No insult intended, but as you stated, you expected this. Others have stated they've replaced their fuses with wire, which is an entirely different matter. I'm not saying having a fuse in the circuit can't change the sound (in the signal path), it's resistive, it has a voltage drop dependent on circuit current by design. I'm saying replacing it with a fuse with the same current protection is unlikely to change/improve the sound and even less likely in the power supply circuit.

I see no reason to pay $40-$80 testing "snake oil", for the same reason I didn't pay $19.99 + Shipping for the cell phone antenna you put into the battery compartment. Tweaks have always been speculative, "Green Stop Light" the green marker you use to stop spurious laser light from escaping into the player from the edges of a CD, comes to mind. Shakti Stones are another. Both tested by high-end reviewers and found to "make a difference".

Another poster said to attempt an A/B comparison. Heaven forbid we add a switch, wire and additional solder to the circuit where we're trying to test the difference between two 1" fuses. Would silver wire make a difference? Maybe use wire from an exotic interconnect to ensure transparency. What about differences in hearing? If I tested them and didn't hear a difference, would it change your mind? What about differences in systems? Will the fuses have the same effect in all audio hardware? Is there a specific frequency range? Would these be good for video? Better in AC circuits over DC? Way too many variables to start hailing these as the next best thing to "Armour All" on CDs.

My point of view is coming from a technical perspective. I've worked for a CBS tape facility in the late 70's performing equalization of their A/B and QC room, calibrating mastering decks... I've worked with both professional and high-end audio/video gear for over 30 years. I now work for Sony performing CD and DVD copy protection. I don't profess to know everything audio, but I do need more fact than "feelings" to convince me.

[emaidel]

Your credentials are admirable, but I too have worked in the audio industry for over 30 years. I've been through the gamut of tweaks that did nothing (Armor-All on CD's, "Magic Pebbles," etc.) and have found many of them to be simply ridiculous. "Ridiculous" is also an apt word to describe the high prices of some interconnects ($3,800 for 1/2 meter cable?), and paying thousands of dollars for something like a record clamp borders on the insane. Still, these fuses - at an admittedly very high price for a fuse - at least to my ears, my wife's ears, and those of a good friend - were worth the expense.

The only way to eliminate you skepticism is for you to try them yourself, but I guess that's not very likely. Oh well,.....

[E-Stat]

Tweaks have always been speculative, "Green Stop Light" the green marker you use to stop spurious laser light from escaping into the player from the edges of a CD, comes to mind. Shakti Stones are another. Both tested by high-end reviewers and found to "make a difference".

It sounds like you just need some assistance understanding the mechanisms involved. Ever tried looking at a laser pointer through a CD? What do you see? Red light! I can't speak for green pens, but I can speak for the Marigo mat. It is flat black on one side and dark green on the other. What happens when you do the same experiment adding the mat? Wanna guess? It eliminates light scatter.

It is common knowledge that all transformers generate EMF fields around them. It is also common knowledge that toroidal transformers have replaced laminated transformers in most applications because they generate far less local EMF. Have you noticed that trend? Did you ever wonder why? Shakti Stones, like the VPI Magic Brick before them, absorb the EMF field. When placed atop a transformer, they reduce that field which can effect the sound quality of nearby circuitry. That was demonstrated to me over twenty years ago. Unfortunately, toroidal transformers are not available for large high voltage tube amplifiers. Which is why I use DIY bricks atop the power transformers on my amps.

rw

[Luvin Da Blues]

Another poster said to attempt an A/B comparison. Heaven forbid we add a switch, wire and additional solder to the circuit where we're trying to test the difference between two 1" fuses. Would silver wire make a difference? Maybe use wire from an exotic interconnect to ensure transparency.

Yes, but with the added circuitry all things would be equal for the two fuses in question.

[bfalls]

It sounds like you just need some assistance understanding the mechanisms involved. Ever tried looking at a laser pointer through a CD? What do you see? Red light! I can't speak for green pens, but I can speak for the Marigo mat. It is flat black on one side and dark green on the other. What happens when you do the same experiment adding the mat? Wanna guess? It eliminates light scatter.

It is common knowledge that all transformers generate EMF fields around them. It is also common knowledge that toroidal transformers have replaced laminated transformers in most applications because they generate far less local EMF. Have you noticed that trend? Did you ever wonder why? Shakti Stones, like the VPI Magic Brick before them, absorb the EMF field. When placed atop a transformer, they reduce that field which can effect the sound quality of nearby circuitry. That was demonstrated to me over twenty years ago. Unfortunately, toroidal transformers are not available for large high voltage tube amplifiers. Which is why I use DIY bricks atop the power transformers on my amps.

rw

Apparently they're good for your car! I guessing your laptop or home computer's CPUs too.

"The SHAKTI Electromagnetic Stabilizer (aka "the Stone") has three internal trap circuits (Microwave, RF and Electric Field) to absorb the broadest spectrum of EMI. Placement on automotive CPUs has measurably increased engine horsepower. It also improves resolution for virtually all-major components in high definition audio/video systems. Music reproduction is clearer, with more liquidity, dynamics and focus. The improved inter-transient silence allows the listener to hear ambient cue information essential for accurate perception of stage depth, width and unwavering imaging. High quality video systems will benefit from SHAKTI devices near power supplies, projection guns and laser disc/DVD players. Reduced color noise and improved convergence alignment are some of the improvements that can occur. In automotive applications, where space allows, the unit should be securely taped and/or cable tied to the top of the CPU."

I've even seen them put on top of speakers, I guess to keep fields generated by the speaker from getting into the speaker. They also have stones for in-line use for your interconnects.

Where does the trapped EMI go? I don't see a connection where it can be drained/grounded. What are the Stone's capacity? They seem pretty small. Do you need to get a specific size for the application? Does the EMI spill-over when full? How does spill-over effect the sound? Can see why I'm skeptical? Pure anecdotal impressions only go so far as well.

I'm not trying to bust your chops. You're correct, you don't have to convince anyone and I appreciate your wanting to pass on a tweak you feel is effective. Tweaks are a "dime a dozen" (in some cases $10,000/dozen), some effective, some not. Some for the intent purpose of fleecing the gullible and uninformed. I just need to look more closely before plopping down $40 for a fuse. Anyone have opinions on "Digital-Ready" speakers? Remember them?

[bfalls]

Yes, but with the added circuitry all things would be equal for the two fuses in question.

Employing a SPDT switch would have only one connection in common, the wiper, depending if you want to short the Tuning Fuse, or replace with a normal fuse, which could require more connedctions. When we're talking about the changes brought about by a cryogenically-treated 1" (or smaller) piece of wire in a casing, the electrical changes are very small.

Since it's perceived this makes a difference, it can also be perceived that contact resistance for each pole can be a factor, or using less than identical lengths of wire for the switch. Solder connections can be a factor. I've run into many a high-resistance cold-solder joints over the years. If more than one wire is used, what about crosstalk between them or the contacts and the EMI produced by each wire. This is why I can't believe a change so small can make a noticeable difference. Still too many variables.