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  1. #1
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    Need help creating a good sounding separates system

    Hi Everyone,

    New to the forum and looking for some advice. After a few years wandering in the hi-fi wilderness of the iPod, I recently plopped a Cambridge 840C CD player into my so-so HT/music set-up (Cambridge 540R, Epos ELS8 bookshelf speakers) and have found my appreciation for audio equipment and CDs transformed. Now I'm looking to create a separates stereo system around the 840C. I've done a lot of reading and researching on getting to know the usual suspects, but I'm looking for some ideas on preamps/power amps and floorstanding speaker combinations to mate to the player at about $2k per component. I was thinking along these lines:

    * Parasound Halo A21 amp
    * Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v5 speakers
    * Parasound JC 2 preamp (way over my price range, but though I might eventually stretch or maybe try to get a factory refreshed or demo to mate it to the A21)

    I've also been looking at the Magnaplanar 1.6, PSB Imagine, Epos M16i, Monitor Silver speakers and just saw that Cambridge has released the 840W and 840E amp/preamp which has gotten good reviews. I'm just getting caught with too much choice and, more importantly too many combinations because I only have one "keeper" component.

    I mostly listen to rock (Stones, etc..), blues, and jazz, no classical or vocals.

    So...any ideas on what kind of combinations might be right for my CD source and what might complement my listening tastes?

    Thanks in advance...

  2. #2
    Ajani
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    Question 1: What size room are you using?

    2: Any special reason why you want separate amp and pre instead of an integrated?

    3: Have you auditioned any speakers? and if so, which did you like?

    You are talking about spending a decent amount of money on your setup, so a lot of careful auditioning is suggested... the last thing you want to do is spent $4K to $6K and not be satisfied with the results....

  3. #3
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Where do you live? BTW the PSB Imagine are awesome for rock. I'm just wondering what dealers are available to you, at a reasonable distance.

  4. #4
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    I'm in NYC, so no shortage of dealers, it just seems like it will be hard to find ways to listen to the ones I'm considering together. I'm just a little stuck because I'm not just buying one piece to fit in with my existing system, but trying to create a system around one piece! Just looking for some direction as to potential good matches among components/brands.

    Living in NYC also plays into the size of the room -- right now I'm in a loft-like space, but am planning to move within the next 6-9 months. Am guessing that the space would end up being 12-15 X 20 or something like that. Also, apartment living means that I won't be able to turn the volume up to ear-splitting levels.

    As for separates vs. integrated, I'm taking it for granted that I will be able to do better with separates (and have more flexibility for the future), but there's no reason why if someone told me that they knew of an integrated amp for $3-4k that's better than any two separates (like a Bryston, for example), I wouldn't look at that as well.

  5. #5
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Maybe you should consider some combinations that are actually placed together at a dealer. They have experience in putting systems together. What the heck...take your CD player with you.

  6. #6
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Dude, for the amount of cash you are willing to spend, it would be crazy for me to even begin to tell you how to start.

    If it was me, I would want to have a dealer's backing for my purchases. Also, it's a place to go should a problem arise, etc.

    Take the CDP out of the equation for now. You may not be able to listen to specific combos of gear, but most dealers will have simliar stuff in terms of performance, so you could supplement.

    I like the idea of the PSB Imagine, so why not start there and hook up amps in your range. The Imagine sound great and are easy to drive making them a nice rock choice. Once you have a pair of speakers, you can take those to the audition of a specific amp if need be.

  7. #7
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    This is all I'll say...

    As much as I love my 1.6's, for your professed tastes* I'd look at other speakers.

    * This is not a dig. Simply a statement of fact.

  8. #8
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    Thanks MarkW -- that's one of the reasons I brought them up specifically. I figured that they might not be ideal for my musical tastes, whereas the Paradigms have specifically been praised for their handling of classic rock.

  9. #9
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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  10. #10
    Ajani
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    With your budget and considering the size of your room, I'd spend more on the speakers and less on an Integrated Amp than pre/power... For example, instead of getting the PSB Imagine T for $2K and then spending say $3K - $4K on pre/power from Parasound... You could get the PSB Synchrony 2 and a Krell S300i... or even a PSB Synchrony 1 and the matching Cambridge Audio 840 V2 amp for your CD player...

    All of those are just options, but as has been said before: you need to audition as much as possible... and you should carry your CD player with you to auditions... You have a good budget, and no sensible dealer should give you grief about plugging your CDP into the setup...

  11. #11
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    Hello TazioNYC

    Since you are in the NY area....try to find a Belles dealer near you and take your CDP with you to plug into the Belles amplification and hear if that works for you. Belles is coming out with a new integrated soon so depending on how quickly you want to proceed with your purchase you may want to first take time to sample the other brand of amps that also have your interest before you give Belles a listen.

    With regard to speakers....for a lively energetic sound have a listen to Mordaunt-Short speakers. For a more sophisticated sound you may want to consider Reference 3A or Dynaudio speakers.


    Have fun shopping and good luck with your selections.

    LeRoy

  12. #12
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    Thanks Ajani -- I'm definitely not looking to spend money for the sake of it, so if an integrated amp in the $2-3k range like the Krell/Cambridge would match up well with some of the speakers you suggested (or the ones already on my list), not cost me anything vs separates, AND i can save some dough, so much the better.

  13. #13
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    I will second the Krell & Dynaudio, in fact, together they are dynamite. I'd say listen to Dyn's Excite or Contour series. The Focus is very good but a bit more polite. If I remember correctly the 840 is balanced with XLR outputs and the Krell is truly balanced with XLR inputs. You mentioned Bryston, that would be a good choice as well. For Rock you will appreciate the control and slam of high current amps like Krell & Bryston.

  14. #14
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by TazioNYC
    Thanks Ajani -- I'm definitely not looking to spend money for the sake of it, so if an integrated amp in the $2-3k range like the Krell/Cambridge would match up well with some of the speakers you suggested (or the ones already on my list), not cost me anything vs separates, AND i can save some dough, so much the better.
    IMO, separates are best used in situations where

    1) You need 200+ watts - as few integrated amps have that much power

    2) You want to mix and match (brands or maybe tubes and solid state)

    3) You're building a cost-no-object reference system....

    I generally find that a given price level you get more bang for your buck with an Integrated... (but of course that is my experience, so ymmv)...

    Since you won't be in an extremely large room, listening at rock concert levels (and the speakers you listed aren't particularly inefficient), then a lower powered integrated will likely be a better use of your money... but clearly, if you get the chance to audition separates, you should do so and make up your own mind...

    Also the speakers on your list are must audition ones in their price range... but I also suggest you audition the next level to see whether the improvements are worth it to you... so in addition to the Monitor Audio Silvers, you should check out the Gold GS20 for example and of course the PSB Synchrony line I mentioned earlier....

    Have fun and don't be in rush to part with your cash... there are so many great products worth auditioning that you want to try out as many as possible before committing to a purchase...

  15. #15
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I've got the Parasound Halo A21 and its a great amp. Tons of power, great detail, resolution , dynamic's and bass. As far as I'm concerned its one of the great buys in audio today. It compares well to amps costing $2K-3K more. Read the reviews on it, there is not one bad review.

    I used to own a Cambridge Audio 840c CDP and I ended up selling it for a hybrid tube DAC. The 840c is a great player though. I would consider a warmer sounding amp to match it. If your willing to consider tube gear take a look at this Van Alstine 550 FET-Valve amp. It has great sound and tremendous bass. It matches well with the 840c. I would also consider the B&K reference 200.2 amp. It has a warmer, darker sound and would mate well with the 840c which leans on the bright side slightly.
    www.ava.hifi.com I almost bought that amp but went with the Parasound and a Van Alstine hybrid tube preamp and DAC.

    By the way, those PSB Synchrony speakers are awesome. A good friend of mine owns a pair and they are excellent.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  16. #16
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    Blackraven: How does the A21 match up with your Magnepan's?

  17. #17
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    Just thought I'd confuse you even further by pointing out the Emotiva XPA-1s:
    http://emotiva.com/xpa1.shtm

    They are separates as you requested and they are on a holiday sale at the moment, some $200 below their normal price for each. Here's a link to some reviews:
    http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=xpa1

    Emotiva sells only online. So no in store presence allowing an easy audition. However, maybe you can contact them and see if anyone in NYC would be willing to let you listen to their XPA-1s. Just a thought.

    Enjoy your search.
    Rudy

  18. #18
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TazioNYC
    Blackraven: How does the A21 match up with your Magnepan's?
    Its an excellent match and I listen to the same type of music as you do with the majority being Blue's and Jazz lately. It puts out 400wpc at 4ohms with peaks of 750watts, so it has plenty of power if you like to listen at loud volumes. It has the dynamics to really make them sing. (the dampening factor is 1000 and this has a lot to do with the dynamics). I have yet to clip the amp and I play it very loud sometimes. The amp has a nice tight crisp clear and fast sound. The bass is tight and deep and the treble is very clean and accurate. It is neutral in presentation and it matches well with solid state and tube preamps. I really recommend a tube or hybrid tube preamp for this amp. The sound is really sweet when matched with tubes. If you want a nice SS preamp that has a warmer almost tube like sound check out the Solid State Van Alstine preamp from www.avahifi.com Its reasonably priced, custom made to each order and has nice liquid sound for a SS preamp.

    I hope this helps some. By the way, I bought mine from www.audioadvisor.com as return for $1700 compared to $2200 new. The A21 also has true balanced inputs!

    Where do you live in NYC, I grew up in Brooklyn and left to go to college and havent looked back.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  19. #19
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    Thanks Blackraven. I live in the West Village at the moment, but might move further uptown. I grew up in NYC, too, on the Upper West.

    One of my big worries with the A21 is the size, I don't have the race space for it at the moment and there don't seem to be a lot of racks I've seen that can support its size. My wife is also a bit of a furniture/decor nut, er, enthusiast, and since this is going in our living room, I have to work her tastes into it a bit. I've shown her some pics of the MG 1.6s, but I don't think she's grasped how big they are.

    But based on what I've read, both the A21 and the MG 1.6s seem like deals of the century compared to what they give.

    I have to say, I do find the Krell 300i and the Moon i3.3 interesting at the price. I will definitely be checking those out too.

  20. #20
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TazioNYC
    My wife is also a bit of a furniture/decor nut, er, enthusiast, and since this is going in our living room, I have to work her tastes into it a bit. I've shown her some pics of the MG 1.6s, but I don't think she's grasped how big they are.

    .
    Well retain a good lawyer if you buy the Magnepan. They require alot of "babying" to get a good sound, this can include having to be brought out from the wall as much as 3 feet! You can always slide them out of the way when not in use, but do you think your wife will dig that?

    I have to say, if you're going to be living in apartments for the next while, I would go for a super sounding bookshelf speaker. For the money you have available, you could pick up something that sounds great. You will be unable to pump a floorstander without issue from your wife, neighbours, landlord and eventually, the cops. Check the speaker forum, there was a great bookshelf thread not too long ago.

    Of course, I could just tell you to spend all of your budget on state of the art speakers. Or ya, get the Magnepan that will cost you your marriage. Ya, that's it. Nope! You gotta be realistic. My aunt lives in the Bronx, I have seen a typical NYC apartment, and it's nothing like what the "Friends" live in.

    Anyhow, just a thought...

  21. #21
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TazioNYC
    Thanks Blackraven. I live in the West Village at the moment, but might move further uptown. I grew up in NYC, too, on the Upper West.

    One of my big worries with the A21 is the size, I don't have the race space for it at the moment and there don't seem to be a lot of racks I've seen that can support its size. My wife is also a bit of a furniture/decor nut, er, enthusiast, and since this is going in our living room, I have to work her tastes into it a bit. I've shown her some pics of the MG 1.6s, but I don't think she's grasped how big they are.

    But based on what I've read, both the A21 and the MG 1.6s seem like deals of the century compared to what they give.

    I have to say, I do find the Krell 300i and the Moon i3.3 interesting at the price. I will definitely be checking those out too.
    How big is the room your going to be putting the sound system into, and what will you be doing in it?
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  22. #22
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    I have the A21, and it's a great unit, though it's huge. Should you go the integrated route, investigate Luxman L505u. Great amp visually and soundwise. I had the Krell 300i many years ago, and it sucked big time (to my ears).

  23. #23
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    Bluetrain, I meant the S-300i, which I think is new. What didn't you like about the old Krell?

    http://www.krellonline.com/s300i.html

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    How big is the room your going to be putting the sound system into, and what will you be doing in it?
    Room size is TBD, probably something like 15X20, though who knows if we score a great deal on a bigger space. It's going in the living room, so it will be the main room in the apartment. TV will also be in there. Probably do lots of reading and general hanging out/working on the computer/entertaining. I'm definitely not looking to win any loudness contests, but I like to listen to the music as a volume that makes it sound muscular.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TazioNYC
    Bluetrain, I meant the S-300i, which I think is new. What didn't you like about the old Krell?

    http://www.krellonline.com/s300i.html
    It sounded too harsh.

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