Need help creating a good sounding separates system

[frenchmon]

TazioNYC...just to help you out with your home work, heres a review by What HiFi.com. on the Krell S-300i http://whathifi.com/Review/Krell-S-300i/

We do have a member here who has the S-300i and just loves it, so you may want to speak with him. I've heard the Krell 500i and its a beast of an amp. But the gear in you list is all good stuff. You just have to make a choice and tweak it and pair it with good gear and you'll be set.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

I had a 300i before going to the 500i, I listened for hours and never got fatigued. It was mated with a Krell CD player and the same Dynaudio in my signature. Krell is on the opposite end of the street than tubes but harsh it isn't. An advantage with Krell, Bryston, Parasound and that breed of high current amp it will sound "muscular" even at low volume. I still have my 500i but found I enjoy Conrad Johnson better. Keep in mind you don't listen at high volume and play the equipment you audition at that moderate level to see how it does.

I personally wouldn't recommend Maggies for Rock either but that's a personal decision. All I can say is you should listen first. Also, keep in mind that most every one uses a sub with Maggies, additional space and expense. Add that to their value and they become not such a value.

For you, at this point, as Ajani stated, the best thing would be to do some listening to get a feel for some of the gear.

[Ajani]

TazioNYC...just to help you out with your home work, heres a review by What HiFi.com. on the Krell S-300i http://whathifi.com/Review/Krell-S-300i/

We do have a member here who has the S-300i and just loves it, so you may want to speak with him. I've heard the Krell 500i and its a beast of an amp. But the gear in you list is all good stuff. You just have to make a choice and tweak it and pair it with good gear and you'll be set.

frenchmon

Just to point out that the WHF review that Frenchmon linked is the only bad review I've seen for the S300i... HiFi News claimed it sounded like $10K Separates and The Absolute Sound loved it... Also keep in mind that S300i is seriously overpriced in the UK, so it was being compared to far more expensive amps in the WHF review, such as the Naim Supernait ($4.5K in the US, Simaudio Moon I3.3 with DAC $4K, etc...) So only with an audition would you be able to make up your mind on the Krell...

[Ajani]

Well retain a good lawyer if you buy the Magnepan. They require alot of "babying" to get a good sound, this can include having to be brought out from the wall as much as 3 feet! You can always slide them out of the way when not in use, but do you think your wife will dig that?

I have to say, if you're going to be living in apartments for the next while, I would go for a super sounding bookshelf speaker. For the money you have available, you could pick up something that sounds great. You will be unable to pump a floorstander without issue from your wife, neighbours, landlord and eventually, the cops. Check the speaker forum, there was a great bookshelf thread not too long ago.

Of course, I could just tell you to spend all of your budget on state of the art speakers. Or ya, get the Magnepan that will cost you your marriage. Ya, that's it. Nope! You gotta be realistic. My aunt lives in the Bronx, I have seen a typical NYC apartment, and it's nothing like what the "Friends" live in.

Anyhow, just a thought...

I agree with PoppaC.... A great way to get high end sound for less, while ensuring that the neighbors won't call the cops when the bass kicks in, is to get a high quality pair of bookshelves...

My Favorites between $2K - $3K are:

Revel Performa M22
B&W 805S

You also should audition:

Paradigm Signature S2
PSB Synchrony 1B
Dynaudio Focus 140

And if you really want to stretch your budget:

Monitor Audio Platinum 100

[Jim Eck]

I can't say enough good about Legacy Speakers, yes they are pricey but they are the best I have heard. http://www.legacyaudio.com/index.php...&Itemid=300189 they are built extremely well and incorperate nothing but the best components. I am currently running 250 watts per channel (8ohm) into the lower section of a pair of Legacy Classics and another 250 into the upper section of them.

I personally prefer seperates for the versatility, keep in mind that you will be forever looking for components I find that I also like to stay with the more vintage amplifiers (they where made when the music I listen to was being made) you also get a good bang for the buck. And when you find you wish to change you can usually get back what you paid for the component.

Now that you are being bitten by the bug you will find yourself looking into analog, there is a whole new bag of fun.

Happy hunting.

Jim

[ren9328]

I also live in an apartment so neighbors and room size is too a concern.

I use Dynaudio Contour "bookshelf" speakers on stands with a Krell KAV 300iL (same as the 400xi) integrated amp. In NYC you should be able to find a 400xi with remaining factory warranty. Asthetically the 300iL and 400xi are better looking (IMO) with a better fit and finish than the S300i as for the difference in sound I cannot comment. I listen to a wide variety of music including, blues, jazz, classic rock and metal. With any type of music the Krell/Dynaudio combination has never failed to impress me. Also they look great and are easy for my girlfriend to use. If you can get your wife/SO involved in the hobby it will make upgrading much easier.

Now get out there and listen to some some music and check out some different systems.

Have fun!

[bobsticks]

I will second the Krell & Dynaudio, in fact, together they are dynamite. I'd say listen to Dyn's Excite or Contour series. The Focus is very good but a bit more polite. If I remember correctly the 840 is balanced with XLR outputs and the Krell is truly balanced with XLR inputs. You mentioned Bryston, that would be a good choice as well. For Rock you will appreciate the control and slam of high current amps like Krell & Bryston.

Hey Tazio, welcome to the forum.

On a recent trip to St. Louis I was fortunate enough to spend an evening with Mr. Peabody and family. We played around with a variety of his components and combinations thereof and I have to confirm his statements regarding the Krell/Dane combo. "Control" and "slam" were indeed excellent, and at all volumes.

FWIW, my system consists of pairing Martin Logans with McIntosh so that system would be theoretically considered far away from my usual preferences...but, damn, it was fine. Were I one to listen to Rock as a majority of my musical diet I would strongly consider this combination.

Good luck and have fun...

[bluetrain]

It sounded too harsh.

After looking up for some audiophile terminology (still struggling with that) I stand corrected - my KAV300i wasn't harsh, it was dry, cold, bright and lifeless

[TazioNYC]

In theory, I like the Krell's theater bypass mode. Seems like a nice, thoughtful feature. And I like the look of it. Now I just have to go out and listen to it!

Thanks to everyone for helping me out here, now I have quite a list:

Amp/Pre:

Krell S300i integrated
Moon i3.3
Cambridge 840A or 840E/840W
Parasound A21 (with preamp to be named later, maybe used JC2)

Speakers:
Paradigm Ref Studio 60 v5
PSB Imagine T
PSB Synchrony 2
Dynaudio Excite 32
Monitor Silver RX8
Magnaplanar 1.6

Seems like a good list!

[bluetrain]

In theory, I like the Krell's theater bypass mode. Seems like a nice, thoughtful feature. And I like the look of it. Now I just have to go out and listen to it!

Thanks to everyone for helping me out here, now I have quite a list:

Amp/Pre:

Krell S300i integrated
Moon i3.3
Cambridge 840A or 840E/840W
Parasound A21 (with preamp to be named later, maybe used JC2)

Speakers:
Paradigm Ref Studio 60 v5
PSB Imagine T
PSB Synchrony 2
Dynaudio Excite 32
Monitor Silver RX8
Magnaplanar 1.6

Seems like a good list!

Tazio, if you get A21, then definitely try Atoll PR300 pre, which can be had for under $2000. It's one of the most musical combos for the money I've ever heard.

[Feanor]

Hi Everyone,

New to the forum and looking for some advice. ...

I mostly listen to rock (Stones, etc..), blues, and jazz, no classical or vocals.

So...any ideas on what kind of combinations might be right for my CD source and what might complement my listening tastes?

Thanks in advance...

Tazio,

Welcome to the AR forums.
You have heard some very good advice here and I don't intend to contradict any of it. But I'll add a few remarks pertaining to the Magneplanar speakers, specifically the MG 1.6QRs which I own.

Basically the Maggies aren't hard to manage provide you can meet a few basic conditions. Yes, they require to be 3 feet from the wall behind for good results. Yes, they require sufficient power, however the amount of power depends on the size and furnishing of your listening room, and even more, how loud you listen. (These things are true for any speaker, of course.) The Maggies are 4 ohm but are otherwise not a "difficult load" for amplifiers.

MG 1.6's will crush any other speaker in their price range for accoustic music, but not good for rock music? Basically, no. Well, with a little "babying" as Poppachubby puts it, they could work very well, IMO. A quality subwoofer crossed over at a relatively high 80 Hz or a little higher will provide the "slam" you need for rock and related genres. (You would try a crossover of 100 Hz to see if you like it -- or use two subwoofers with a 150 crossover.)

Here the trick is to exclude the signal below the crossover point from the Maggies, in other words you need a "high-pass" filter on the Maggies. I'd suggest that the both the high- and low-pass (to the subwoofer) filters ought to be 3rd order (18 dB per octave) or higher to avoid response overlap and phase problems. You might obtain the requisite high-pass filter for the Maggies in various ways: (1) built into the sub, (2) built into your amp, (3) an "active", line-level filter ahead of our you power amp or in 'external loop' connections of an integrated amp, or (3) a passive, high level filter network ahead of the bass (but not treble) inputs of the Maggies. The last is a fairly easy DIY project.

Or you could just go with a pair of PSB Synchronys or Paradigm Signatures if rock's your big thing.

[markw]

MG 1.6's will crush any other speaker in their price range for accoustic music, but not good for rock music? Basically, no. Well, with a little "babying" as Poppachubby puts it, they could work very well, IMO. A quality subwoofer crossed over at a relatively high 80 Hz or a little higher will provide the "slam" you need for rock and related genres. (You would try a crossover of 100 Hz to see if you like it -- or use two subwoofers with a 150 crossover.)

I don't remember a subwoofer being part of the requirements.

I'll stick with my original statement. Alone, they lack the low end impact needed for good classic rock. Period, end of discussion.

FWIW, when I had a sub in the misic system I ran them full range I set the low pass on the sub at about 50 - 55 hz. Tha maggies are polite enough to simply ignore anything below their low end abilities.

[Geoffcin]

Room size is TBD, probably something like 15X20, though who knows if we score a great deal on a bigger space. It's going in the living room, so it will be the main room in the apartment. TV will also be in there. Probably do lots of reading and general hanging out/working on the computer/entertaining. I'm definitely not looking to win any loudness contests, but I like to listen to the music as a volume that makes it sound muscular.

Apartment living means you will have to be nice with your neighbors. Also as this will be the main living space you might not want it dominated by speakers. So, towers, or any floor standing speakers are out. Floorstanders couple their bass to the floor and give your neighbors under you almost as much bass as you would get.

My advice would be to get a good set of monitors. I really like Totem speakers, especially their monitors. Depending on your budget you could go from the Totem Rainmaker, a real overachiver for it size, to the Totem Mani-2 Signature, a speaker I would put up against anything in it's price range.

Here's a never used pair of Model 1 Sig's that are for sale on the used market;

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....Signature-seal

Not a bad way to save $650 from book price. Once you hear a pair of these driven well you'll agree they are worth every penny.

[manlystanley]

I'm looking for some ideas on preamps/power amps and floorstanding speaker combinations to mate to the player at about $2k per component. I was thinking along these lines:

Let me give you a couple of thoughts and questions:

-- Do you rally know what your musical tastes are? Have you had much experience at developing a more rarefied taste?

-- Audiophile is the type of hobby that is a huge time and money sink. But, it's a passion (e.g. neurosis) that we all develop with time. (e.g. your tastes may change).

I suggest then that instead of jumping in and bringing home a $4-7K setup, why not start out lower. Get some cheaper (but good quality) stuff, then see how your tastes develop. I see some people buying very high end systems and then being taken to the cleaners (because they have to sell for much lower) when they want to change things out.

So, I'd second the suggestion of getting something like: Emotiva XPA-2 ($699) a used preamp (Tons on really good 20 year old pre-amps on the market, I got mine for $85) and a good set of speakers. Then see what you like, read more, and have fun on your journey towards musical nirvana--instead of trying to jump into it in one big step.

Best Regards,
Stan

[TazioNYC]

Yes, I really know what my musical tastes are, I assure you. They aren't going to be changing any time soon -- I go for depth in terms of taste (delving deeper into what I like) than breadth.

Audio is expensive, but it's a lot cheaper than cars, let's put it that way.

Let me give you a couple of thoughts and questions:

-- Do you rally know what your musical tastes are? Have you had much experience at developing a more rarefied taste?

-- Audiophile is the type of hobby that is a huge time and money sink. But, it's a passion (e.g. neurosis) that we all develop with time. (e.g. your tastes may change).

I suggest then that instead of jumping in and bringing home a $4-7K setup, why not start out lower. Get some cheaper (but good quality) stuff, then see how your tastes develop. I see some people buying very high end systems and then being taken to the cleaners (because they have to sell for much lower) when they want to change things out.

So, I'd second the suggestion of getting something like: Emotiva XPA-2 ($699) a used preamp (Tons on really good 20 year old pre-amps on the market, I got mine for $85) and a good set of speakers. Then see what you like, read more, and have fun on your journey towards musical nirvana--instead of trying to jump into it in one big step.

Best Regards,
Stan

[Mr Peabody]

I haven't heard the Krell 300iL side by side to the 400xi but the 300iL should be a slightly better amp. The iL is an older model but had a higher retail.

Bluetrain, the 300i was Krell's most entry level integrated. Although we differ on it's degree of performance, I hope you have a chance to listen to some additional Krell gear to see if you maintain your opinion. I will say that Krell does perform better with Krell, or similar sonic character gear. So it could be possible you mated it with speakers and source that just didn't have synergy with the 300i. I personally prefer the more musical presentation of Conrad Johnson but still own and respect Krell for it's abilities. And, there aren't many to approach their ability in certain areas.

[blackraven]

One of my big worries with the A21 is the size, I don't have the race space for it at the moment and there don't seem to be a lot of racks I've seen that can support its size. My wife is also a bit of a furniture/decor nut, er, enthusiast, and since this is going in our living room, I have to work her tastes into it a bit. I've shown her some pics of the MG 1.6s, but I don't think she's grasped how big they are.
.
.

I was concerned about the size of the A21 as well. I bought this rack and its an excellent audio rack

http://www.vtimanufacturing.com/RGR%20Series.htm

I bought the 406B The top shelf is able to accommodate the A21 and the top and bottom shelves can hold 150lbs each and the middle shelves 60lbs each. I have the 60lb A21 on top and my 55lb Adcom AVR on the bottom.

By the way, I would also look at the Thiel 2.4 speakers http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_6...ry.html?tp=185

http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site...cs2_4nws.shtml

Thiels are my second favorite speakers.