Hi-Res Audio Formats on BR & HDDVD

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Blanket statement, and simply not true. While I will 100% agree with you that d/l is NOT the same quality as the physical media, for the majority folks that don't have your caliber of equipment its "satisfactory". If there is no difference in "quality" then why are HD downloads on XBOX Live the most popular form of HD D/L in the industry? It's killing ITunes, and cable/sat providers hands down. Keep in mind that the same material is ALSO availible in SD. So why are consumers paying more for the HD?

Not a blanket statement, a proven fact. Studio after studio survey has proven the same audience going for downloads in general, are not the same audience looking for high quality audio and video. Survey after survey has proven that those who go for downloads generally are doing so for convience, and not for high quality because you and I know it is not high quality. Most hometheater hobbiest do not buy into "satisfactory" when they have access to much higher quality material. XBOX live is for those who own a XBOX game machine. What of those who do not own one? XBOX is useless to them. You cannot equate popularity with quality. MP3 is popular, and we both know it is not quality audio.
According to Microsoft's own survey of XBOX owners, many of them do not even own a HDTV, nor do they own TV with 40" or greater, so what quality can you ascertain from HD on a non HDTV or with one with a screen too small to see any real detail?

XBOX does allow you to get you low quality video from the box to a larger screen. Itunes still has no way to get HD images from the player to a larger screen. That is probably the main reason why it is not more popular. As far as cable/sat downloading, thanks for making my point. Now convey this to nightmare oops I mean nightflier.

Just to give you some perspective. According to NDP downloading will represent a 200 million dollar business 2008. HD DVD and Bluray generated more than 4 billion dollars in sales of players and media from October of 2006 to October of 2007. When compared to a small pond, downloading of any type can look big, but when compared to an overall larger picture, its just a really small fish.

Why do you feel the need to draw a line in the sand about quality/convienece. It may not be up to YOUR standards, but millions of others disagree with you.

It is to help you understand some perspective, and different market segments. Just smooshing things all together does not allow for any analysis. It has been proven in technology after technology that convience comes at the cost of quality. MP3, lossy Itunes files, low quality heavily compressed downloads, and heavily compressed VOD are convient delivery system. HD DVD and Bluray are high quality audio and video delivery system. They are very different, their goal is different, the quality is VERY different, and therefore must be analyzed differently.

The "piracy" you pointed out with your out of date articles showcased the ablitiy to play bootleg GAMES, not d/l material. If you don't care about games fine, but don't confuse the 2 issues. Movie studios are not concerned about pirated games, but pirated movies.

When you said this
The only differnce is that w/360 the HD cannont be attached or accessed by a computer. So its actually pretty safe from Piracy. The PS3 is a different animal because it uses a standard HardDrive, that can be removed and accessed by a computer. Perhaps thats why industry is slow to embrace the PS3 as a D/L solution for media?

You made a blanket assertion that the XBOX was more secure than the PS3. I have proven that you information is incorrect. The XBOX is not more secure than the PS3, based on the articles it is a very unsecure format in and of itself. No one has to compare it to anything. If you tried the same thing to the PS3(messing with its motherboard), you have bricked it before you could download your first game or movie.

The links only prove that you are content to dig up half the story. Then pretend that your ancient articles somehow end the arguement. Take a read on this site:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171135.html

MS has not only been issuing updates to quell the issue of modding, they have gone further. Now they are issuing updates that physically disable the units. Also known as "bricking". The important part about this is that for d/l material to get on the 360, one has to utilize "LIVE". So, if you have a modded XBOX 360, you need to get on Live. If you want to use Live, you need the latest update. Get the update, kills machine. If you "decline" the update, your booted off live. If you are not on live, YOU CANT GET MEDIA. So, in essence your movie studios are safe.

You are not addressing pirated discs and other media. If you do not sign on to XBOX live, they cannot install a update that can brick you player. If you play only pirated material, then MS cannot brick your player. From what I have read, these guys that do the mods avoid XBOX live like the plague. This keeps MS from touching them. The hole is still there, and alot of folks in the Asian territories know this and are expoliting it like crazy.

Game piracy, and movie piracy are 2 different animals.

Breaking the law is breaking the law. How it is done is irrelevant.

No this is where you are out of your league. Honestly, as much crap as I give you, I admit you know FAR more than I do about BR/ HD-DVD. It may be fun to tweak your horn, but in the end, I realize you have more information, and expert information that I don't. However, in this arena, you are lost. The information you present is out of date, and unrelated to the issue of MEDIA piracy, and GAME piracy. The issue of security for the "GamerScore" cheating is related to PASSWORDS. Not, modding, or other hardware cracks. If I give someone a password to my account, that is completly different that writing code, or breaking the chips off the motherboard. But I wouldn't expect you to know that as you have already stated numerous times you don't care about gaming. So stop acting like you know anything about it. Because you don't.

If you know I do not care, then you know you have just wasted time typing this. So going forward, I know when people have made up some of the crap you have that, they are tweaking. So be aware that I am unmoved by this immature practice. Adults do not have to tweak, they discuss and debate. Poking at people is childs play.

You are aware of course that the XBOX, and the XBOX 360 are 2 different consoles right? So to dig up information on a dead console only showcases your total lack of knowledge about current issues, and the topic at hand. Your arguement would be akin to me digging up an article about the Ford Pinto, and saying that its olbvious that Ford only makes defective cars. Never mind that it was over 20 years ago, and a DEAD issue. If you can't make your argument relevent about the current system I suggest you troll elsewhere.

What showcases my knowledge is I know the fact the Microsoft cannot design and implement a secure product. Windows, Windows media player, XBOX, XBOX360, explorer, have all been hacked in some shape or form. This is going back years and years to their first marketed product. So when some beefbrain tells me that any Microsoft product is safer from piracy than another, I know that they are tweaking my horn. Its either that or they don't know their butt from a hole in the ground. Which do you cop to?

Agreed. But not all movie D/L are P2P. Thats why studios are flocking to Live, and to a lesser degree ITunes.

Nobody is flocking to live. Studio are releasing selected movies and TV programming to xbox live. Not ALL studio support XBOX live am I correct? It is somewhat disengenious to use the word flocking since not all studio rushed to support live, nor are they releasing their most valuable content to it. I know for a fact Disney is not releasing their most prized movies to Xbox live

So please explain to me how they determine the ROI on the ad campaign? How do they assign a value to the campaign. You can expect the world, but it doesn't make it so.

Its called sales projections.

I'm not going to disagree with product placement, although the power of that is coming more into question as companies rush to place anything and everything. And how in the world do you quantify ROI on product placement? About the best product placement was Recee's Pieces in ET. After that the race was on, but results haven't been nearly as good as that case.

Thanks for making my point again. Now explain this to nightmare (oops) nightcrawler(dang did it again) nighflier.

And as far as advertisement goes, business spend plenty of money "just to get an effect". Happens ALL THE TIME. Ever heard of the SuperBowl? Plenty of studies have been done showing that the money spent vs/return doesn't bear out. But lots of companies blow their entire ad budget for the year on 1-2 spots. Master Lock used to be one of them, but they have realized that they get a bigger bang for other promotions.

Beefbrain, it is apparent you have never run a business. Anyone spending 2.6 million dollars for a 30 second spot is not looking for an effect. They are advertising in front of one of the largest audiences for a single event next to Nascar. It is irrelevant whether they get the return, but they sure in the hell expect it, and do sale projections to anticipate it. Thank you for making my point again with your Master Lock example. If it does not produce results, companies move on.

And just because an ad is placed, doesn't mean results. Let me ask you Mr. Bright guy, how many ads would it take to get you to buy Bose Speakers? I'd be willing to bet that you could watch 20 ads a day on TV, read 15 newspaper ads, see it in your subscription to AARP Monthly, and still never buy it. Why? Because regardless of the LEVEL of promotion, your not interested in the product. But according to your theory, its not because you don't want to buy the product, its because its not being promoted to YOU in the correct way. So should Bose call you every day? Maybe direct email you 3 times an hour, and stick flyers on the windshield of your car? No? What else can they do?

This is a lousy way to advance your point. Bose is not interested in me, they are interested in the millions and millions of ignorant NON audio folks who are much more subject to the suggestion of quality, than the reality of it. Even though I would not purchase a single product of theirs, the reality is they are the largest speaker company in the world by far. They are looking for people just like you who prefer "good enough" instead of excellent value for the money. They are looking for people too lazy and stupid to do comparison shopping or their audio homework. Piss poor example buddy.

Oh, I didn't realize they signed an agreement. Our Government can't keep secrets out of the hands of enemy states, but BY GOD THE BDA CAN!!! The only thing that "agreement" means is that now instead of names, they are called "unnamed sources within the BDA". Give me a break. The information is out there. If you can't comment on them fine. But there is A LOT of speculation on either side. You want to shill for BR based on some little party you attended, fine. If I want to present info I have come across, I will.

Groundbeef, you are nothing more than a liar. If there were unnamed sources giving out BR contract information, people like paidgeek, and several others at bluray.com would know all about it. Most all of the insiders there represent their companies at the highest level from all bluray supporting studios. They will not talk about it at all. What, your gamer friends told you this? There is no information being spread like this on any other hometheater website, or anywhere else you liar. If Paramount could keep the fact that they were going exclusive a secret from even their own employees, then the BDA can keep their contract information secret. To compare what our govenment does to what the BDA does, is a weak and faulty comparison. This is just a plain lie. This is grounds for nobody to believe a damn thing you have to say in the future. You have no credibility on this issue at all. Please go back to the pasture and eat grass. When a person lies like this, this shows the weakness of their point.

[Groundbeef]

You are not addressing pirated discs and other media. If you do not sign on to XBOX live, they cannot install a update that can brick you player. If you play only pirated material, then MS cannot brick your player. From what I have read, these guys that do the mods avoid XBOX live like the plague. This keeps MS from touching them. The hole is still there, and alot of folks in the Asian territories know this and are expoliting it like crazy. .

Thanks for making my point old man. The original discussion was on HD Movie Downloads. Of which XBOX Live is doing a booming business. Then you decide to introduce game piracy THAT IS TOTALLY UNRELATED. So, if you mod your 360, you cant get on live. If you cant get on LIVE, you CANT get movies. If you cant get movies, THERE IS NO DANGER OF PIRACY. Thanks for making MY point, and making yourself look like an even bigger ass than you already have. I'll let Nightflier know you said "Hi".

If you know I do not care, then you know you have just wasted time typing this. So going forward, I know when people have made up some of the crap you have that, they are tweaking. So be aware that I am unmoved by this immature practice. Adults do not have to tweak, they discuss and debate. Poking at people is childs play. .

Well, I've been waiting for you to debate. Instead you have once again gone to the gutter. Calling people liars, and other names only shows off how weak a position you are arguing from. Too bad your employers can't see what an ass you make of yourself here. Unless of course you do it at work also.

What showcases my knowledge is I know the fact the Microsoft cannot design and implement a secure product. Windows, Windows media player, XBOX, XBOX360, explorer, have all been hacked in some shape or form. This is going back years and years to their first marketed product. So when some beefbrain tells me that any Microsoft product is safer from piracy than another, I know that they are tweaking my horn. Its either that or they don't know their butt from a hole in the ground. Which do you cop to?.

Neither. The only thing you have proven is how clueless you are when it comes to consoles. The PS3 has been hacked as well, but the difference is that SONY is "working" on IPTV, and movie D/L and has been for 2 years. MS has a robust SD/HD movie download system, that has not been shown to be affected by nefarious activity. The best you can do is showcase a 2 year old article about gaming piracy, and another about persons sharing passwords. Nothing about movies/TV content because they are unaffected by this SEPARATE issue. When shown articles about MS combating the problem, you can only sputter about how an OLD Defunct Console proves your point. Go take a nap old man, and try again later.

Nobody is flocking to live. Studio are releasing selected movies and TV programming to xbox live. Not ALL studio support XBOX live am I correct? It is somewhat disengenious to use the word flocking since not all studio rushed to support live, nor are they releasing their most valuable content to it. I know for a fact Disney is not releasing their most prized movies to Xbox live.

Right, I forgot, they are "Flocking" to Sony to flood the market with d/l movies and TV content. Oh wait, Sony doesn't offer that service. My bad. Yes, I said "Flock". More and more content is being offered each day. Apple can't compete,and they are killing Sat/Cable. The fact that Disney is offering ANY HD content on MS is a pretty big step. After all, didn't Disney go on record NOT supporting HD-DVD, and only Blu-Ray? Kinda funny then, that they offer HD on a MS service. Great point about Disney, thanks for making my arguement!

Its called sales projections. .

If your basing sales projections soley on your Ad budget you got bigger problems. Good luck with that.

Beefbrain, it is apparent you have never run a business. Anyone spending 2.6 million dollars for a 30 second spot is not looking for an effect. They are advertising in front of one of the largest audiences for a single event next to Nascar. It is irrelevant whether they get the return, but they sure in the hell expect it, and do sale projections to anticipate it. Thank you for making my point again with your Master Lock example. If it does not produce results, companies move on. .

Yeah, your right. Pets.Com was really hoping the Superbowl would have worked out better for them. And certainly anyone else that spends that kind of money isn't looking for an 'effect'. Your an idiot. They ARE looking for an effect, but as you realize, it won't translate directly into sales. Sounds like your backpeddling here. Now it "It's irrelevant whether they get th return". I thought that was what they were so concerned about remeber the ROI? Master Lock only showed that plenty of companies blew their entire ad budget on 1 commercial for the year. For the "Effect" as you put it. It made my case, but I'll let your feeble mind think it helped you. You need all the help you can get.

This is a lousy way to advance your point. Bose is not interested in me, they are interested in the millions and millions of ignorant NON audio folks who are much more subject to the suggestion of quality, than the reality of it. Even though I would not purchase a single product of theirs, the reality is they are the largest speaker company in the world by far. They are looking for people just like you who prefer "good enough" instead of excellent value for the money. They are looking for people too lazy and stupid to do comparison shopping or their audio homework. Piss poor example buddy. .

No, they actually figured you into their ROI. So, if they only spent a bit more they might land you. And its not a bad example, just shows how little you understand the relationship between Advertising, and actual "Sales". Keep thinking there is a direct correlation. It's good that you make all of us laugh so hard. Keeps us coming back to learn more from Sir T "Terrible in Math, Debate, and Business".

Groundbeef, you are nothing more than a liar. If there were unnamed sources giving out BR contract information, people like paidgeek, and several others at bluray.com would know all about it. Most all of the insiders there represent their companies at the highest level from all bluray supporting studios. They will not talk about it at all. What, your gamer friends told you this? There is no information being spread like this on any other hometheater website, or anywhere else you liar. If Paramount could keep the fact that they were going exclusive a secret from even their own employees, then the BDA can keep their contract information secret. To compare what our govenment does to what the BDA does, is a weak and faulty comparison. This is just a plain lie. This is grounds for nobody to believe a damn thing you have to say in the future. You have no credibility on this issue at all. Please go back to the pasture and eat grass. When a person lies like this, this shows the weakness of their point.

More bloviation folks! Step right up, and gather 'round. Hear how the BDA can lock up secrecy where the US government can't. Perhaps BDA should give a course to the CIA, FBI, and NSA. They got that whole "secrecy" thing locked up. Apparently it only takes a signature on a non-disclosure agreement. AHHHHHH. When you belive that NO one will talk it only makes you look dumber than when you discuss game consoles. And belive me, thats pretty stupid.

Do I know what happens between closed doors? Nope. DO YOU? And if you comment on that, you better check your disclosure agreement closely. Because if you talk here, just imagine what others are saying elsewhere. It's human nature to share. Don't pretend some paper agreement will keep secrets. It wont.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Thanks for making my point old man. The original discussion was on HD Movie Downloads. Of which XBOX Live is doing a booming business. Then you decide to introduce game piracy THAT IS TOTALLY UNRELATED. So, if you mod your 360, you cant get on live. If you cant get on LIVE, you CANT get movies. If you cant get movies, THERE IS NO DANGER OF PIRACY. Thanks for making MY point, and making yourself look like an even bigger ass than you already have. I'll let Nightflier know you said "Hi".

Did you not say that the XBOX was more secure than the PS3?. That is how piracy was introduced to this conversation meathead. Modders do not care about XBOX live when they can play bootleg movies and games aquired through other sources. When you want to make a statement, be sure that nobody can counter it. Okay? I would hardly call $200 million spread between Apple, XBOX live, and cable booming. 4 billion dollars in a year for a brand new technology would be better described as booming.

Well, I've been waiting for you to debate. Instead you have once again gone to the gutter. Calling people liars, and other names only shows off how weak a position you are arguing from. Too bad your employers can't see what an ass you make of yourself here. Unless of course you do it at work also.

If you are waiting to debate as you state, then why have you gone back to personalities as opposed to the issue at hand? When people lie constantly as you have, then they are liars. There is no other way to characterize it. When a person is ready to debate, they do not lie.

Neither. The only thing you have proven is how clueless you are when it comes to consoles. The PS3 has been hacked as well, but the difference is that SONY is "working" on IPTV, and movie D/L and has been for 2 years. MS has a robust SD/HD movie download system, that has not been shown to be affected by nefarious activity. The best you can do is showcase a 2 year old article about gaming piracy, and another about persons sharing passwords. Nothing about movies/TV content because they are unaffected by this SEPARATE issue. When shown articles about MS combating the problem, you can only sputter about how an OLD Defunct Console proves your point. Go take a nap old man, and try again later.

Your head is as hard as a brick. I already stated I didn't care about consoles. Why don't you get this?

But you said yourself that the XBOX was more secure than the PS3. The difference between the XBOX hack and the PS3 hack is hardware versus software. The software issue can be eleviated through a firmware, unlike the XBOX, which can be . All Sony has to do is include the firmware on the very disc of the next game, and its game over. If the game is spread and picked up, without the proper protocol, the game won't play. XBOX has no such work around. All someone has to do is not log on to XBOX live, and their player can play hacked games and movies forever.

I guess if you were a little diaper wearing child, I would be a old man. Nobody would consider me a old man if they were out of their teens. I can only ascertain that you are a little diaper wearing child by your reference to me as an old man.

Right, I forgot, they are "Flocking" to Sony to flood the market with d/l movies and TV content. Oh wait, Sony doesn't offer that service. My bad. Yes, I said "Flock". More and more content is being offered each day. Apple can't compete,and they are killing Sat/Cable. The fact that Disney is offering ANY HD content on MS is a pretty big step. After all, didn't Disney go on record NOT supporting HD-DVD, and only Blu-Ray? Kinda funny then, that they offer HD on a MS service. Great point about Disney, thanks for making my arguement!

Your attempts to twist this are rebuffed. You cannot use the word FLOCK unless you were describing someone falling all over each other to get to something. The very fact that not ALL studios support XBOX short circuits this whole flocking to live bull crap. The fact that the studios are selective in what they are releasing to live shows a much more measured approach than your word FLOCKING would imply. Inflammatory word usage is for marketing people, and people who spin the facts. Disney offering televsion programming, and a few movies is no big deal. If they were releasing their premium stuff, that a big deal. Overstating a point shows the weakness of that point. Careful scrutiny shows its not point at all. All studio are looking for other distribution outlets. Live is just another one. When they start offering the same content you get on Bluray, then you have said something. Until then, this is a fatty hamburger, your favorite.

If your basing sales projections soley on your Ad budget you got bigger problems. Good luck with that.

How do you obtain a ad budget without sales. Good luck with that! Everyone does sales projections. If an ad does not meet even the most minimum of sales projections, then its on to another marketing outlet. Nobody said sales projection were based SOLEY on anything. It is a major thing, not the ONLY thing. That is business young grass eating leather purse!

Yeah, your right. Pets.Com was really hoping the Superbowl would have worked out better for them. And certainly anyone else that spends that kind of money isn't looking for an 'effect'. Your an idiot. They ARE looking for an effect, but as you realize, it won't translate directly into sales. Sounds like your backpeddling here. Now it "It's irrelevant whether they get th return". I thought that was what they were so concerned about remeber the ROI? Master Lock only showed that plenty of companies blew their entire ad budget on 1 commercial for the year. For the "Effect" as you put it. It made my case, but I'll let your feeble mind think it helped you. You need all the help you can get.

This makes no since at all. Why do you advertise if you are not looking for sales? Why spend big money on advertising if you are not looking for a larger ROI? Master lock learned this, Pets.com learned this, why is this so difficult for you to grasp as well. If a marketing outlet does not translate to sales growth(we are in a results driven world) then that outlet is abandon for another. No back peddling, just total constancy for those who can read.

No, they actually figured you into their ROI. So, if they only spent a bit more they might land you. And its not a bad example, just shows how little you understand the relationship between Advertising, and actual "Sales". Keep thinking there is a direct correlation. It's good that you make all of us laugh so hard. Keeps us coming back to learn more from Sir T "Terrible in Math, Debate, and Business".

Are you disputing that Bose advertising is not found in every audio magazine, in malls, inflight mags on airplanes, online and everywhere else? Here is a company that knows how to market and advertise, that is why they are the largest speaker company in the world. But of course a nose picking gaming little boy wouldn't know that would they? Bose makes my point valid, if no other company in the world does.

More bloviation folks! Step right up, and gather 'round. Hear how the BDA can lock up secrecy where the US government can't. Perhaps BDA should give a course to the CIA, FBI, and NSA. They got that whole "secrecy" thing locked up. Apparently it only takes a signature on a non-disclosure agreement. AHHHHHH. When you belive that NO one will talk it only makes you look dumber than when you discuss game consoles. And belive me, thats pretty stupid.

You have been eating so much of yourself, that the fat from the meat has gone to your head. The CIA, FBI and NSA are HUGE organizations with information on everything(computer laptops etc.). To keep information secret with a combined total of millions of employees would be next to impossible, since those employees have access to sensitive information and can expose it. The BDA is made up of 170 companies, with only people at the highest levels of that company knowing any details of the BDA contracts. The difference is staggering, but I am not surprised that you would even make this comparison.

If I wanted to know anything about consoles, I would know more about them than you ever could. Just like I know more about audio and video than you do. I put my energy into what interested me, not in what interests something that fits between two peices of bread.

Do I know what happens between closed doors? Nope. DO YOU? And if you comment on that, you better check your disclosure agreement closely. Because if you talk here, just imagine what others are saying elsewhere. It's human nature to share. Don't pretend some paper agreement will keep secrets. It wont.

If you were threaten with legal prosecution, would you tell? If it meant banishment from the BDA, and all of your liscensing aggreements abolished and revoked, would you put your business on the line just to spread contract information? I do not think so. As close as I am to the bluray insiders(and one even went to college with me), If I cannot get information on this, you know some snotting nosed gaming freak hasn't a chance. There is no information that I have devulge here, that has not already been reveal at bluray.com. You are spreading lies, you know you are, and it is stupid of you to continue this course. I visit almost all the major and some minor AV sites out there, I have heard of no one mentioning this AT ALL, because no one knows a single detail of this. This is nothing more than one of you fat between the bun lies. Move on, you have absolutely no traction here, that is for sure.

The bottom line is this. If Warner had not renewed is contractual obligations, they would be giving up their seat on the BDA BOD. If that was done, everyone would know about it because who is on the BOD is a matter of public record, and it would have been all over the internet. Since Warner is still listed as part of the BDA BOD, then what you have stated is a lie. When you know the rules of the BDA, it makes advancing this kind of FUD impossible.

You can call me idot, old man, or anything other name. I am unfazed by this. So if you were trying to get an effect, the only effect you got was everyone now knows what a little kid your truely are.

[Groundbeef]

Did you not say that the XBOX was more secure than the PS3?. That is how piracy was introduced to this conversation meathead. Modders do not care about XBOX live when they can play bootleg movies and games aquired through other sources. When you want to make a statement, be sure that nobody can counter it. Okay? I would hardly call $200 million spread between Apple, XBOX live, and cable booming. 4 billion dollars in a year for a brand new technology would be better described as booming. .

And I'm sure that it's going to be $200 million forever. In 5 years, lets revisit this topic. By then BR/HD-DVD will be an afterthought, and D/L will be on top.

If you are waiting to debate as you state, then why have you gone back to personalities as opposed to the issue at hand? When people lie constantly as you have, then they are liars. There is no other way to characterize it. When a person is ready to debate, they do not lie. .

You started with the liar comments dumb ass. Just waiting for you to actually debate, instead of trying to come up with witty coments about my Avatar. But since you actually don't have anything realistic or on topic to add, I'll wait for your next meat reference.

Your head is as hard as a brick. I already stated I didn't care about consoles. Why don't you get this?.

Then perhaps you ought to stop commenting about them. Your lack of knowledge and intellegence are showing.

But you said yourself that the XBOX was more secure than the PS3. The difference between the XBOX hack and the PS3 hack is hardware versus software. The software issue can be eleviated through a firmware, unlike the XBOX, which can be . All Sony has to do is include the firmware on the very disc of the next game, and its game over. If the game is spread and picked up, without the proper protocol, the game won't play. XBOX has no such work around. All someone has to do is not log on to XBOX live, and their player can play hacked games and movies forever. .

No, I think I was referencing the fact that its easier to pull the HD out of the PS3 (it is). It wouldn't be that difficult to then attach the HD to a computer. A little emulation and it can access the info. On the 360, you need to modify the motherboard. It is different.

For the PS3, there are A LOT of Linux applications that are doing the same thing that motherboard "mods" are doing to the 360. But you wouldn't know that because you don't care. So stop acting like your the definative source on console info. Because your not.

And please explain the last comment on your quote? How is a modded 360 going to play hacked movies? Without the latest "Key" the movies don't play. Get on live to get a key, and your system is "bricked". Seems like a waste to kill your system for a $4.00 d/l. But again your ignorance gets in the way of your inability to shut up when your behind.

I guess if you were a little diaper wearing child, I would be a old man. Nobody would consider me a old man if they were out of their teens. I can only ascertain that you are a little diaper wearing child by your reference to me as an old man. .

No, your total lack of grip of reality can only lead one to belive that you are in advanced stages of dementia. So, you might be young in years, but your mental ability can only be described as "ancient".

Your attempts to twist this are rebuffed. You cannot use the word FLOCK unless you were describing someone falling all over each other to get to something. The very fact that not ALL studios support XBOX short circuits this whole flocking to live bull crap. The fact that the studios are selective in what they are releasing to live shows a much more measured approach than your word FLOCKING would imply. Inflammatory word usage is for marketing people, and people who spin the facts. Disney offering televsion programming, and a few movies is no big deal. If they were releasing their premium stuff, that a big deal. Overstating a point shows the weakness of that point. Careful scrutiny shows its not point at all. All studio are looking for other distribution outlets. Live is just another one. When they start offering the same content you get on Bluray, then you have said something. Until then, this is a fatty hamburger, your favorite. .

The fact that Disney is even offering programming for d/l is a pretty big thing for MS. It's not like they said MS will NEVER get more, they are starting out slowly. Discount it all you want, but every business starts slowly. Just because physical media is a larger business model now doesn't mean it will be forever. Only a total ass would assume it will. My money is on your studio even looking at internet distribution for media in the future.

How do you obtain a ad budget without sales. Good luck with that! Everyone does sales projections. If an ad does not meet even the most minimum of sales projections, then its on to another marketing outlet. Nobody said sales projection were based SOLEY on anything. It is a major thing, not the ONLY thing. That is business young grass eating leather purse! .

Never said that people don't do sales projections. But they certainly don't bank on a $ to $ relation of ads run to sales.

This makes no since at all. Why do you advertise if you are not looking for sales? Why spend big money on advertising if you are not looking for a larger ROI? Master lock learned this, Pets.com learned this, why is this so difficult for you to grasp as well. If a marketing outlet does not translate to sales growth(we are in a results driven world) then that outlet is abandon for another. No back peddling, just total constancy for those who can read. .

Pets.com went out of business you moron. But who cares right? They were ADVERTISING dammit!

Are you disputing that Bose advertising is not found in every audio magazine, in malls, inflight mags on airplanes, online and everywhere else? Here is a company that knows how to market and advertise, that is why they are the largest speaker company in the world. But of course a nose picking gaming little boy wouldn't know that would they? Bose makes my point valid, if no other company in the world does. .

Nope, not contesting a thing. But I guess they should re-evaluate their advertising if they can't even convince a dolt like yourself to buy.

You have been eating so much of yourself, that the fat from the meat has gone to your head. The CIA, FBI and NSA are HUGE organizations with information on everything(computer laptops etc.). To keep information secret with a combined total of millions of employees would be next to impossible, since those employees have access to sensitive information and can expose it. The BDA is made up of 170 companies, with only people at the highest levels of that company knowing any details of the BDA contracts. The difference is staggering, but I am not surprised that you would even make this comparison. .

You do realize that there are different levels of "Secret" right? For god's sake, we cant even get the VP of the US to keep treasonous secrets "secret". So your 170 company consortium can? Please.

If I wanted to know anything about consoles, I would know more about them than you ever could. Just like I know more about audio and video than you do. I put my energy into what interested me, not in what interests something that fits between two peices of bread. .

So stop acting like you know anything about consoles. You do own one after all. Remember, the one that SONY President stated is a GAME MACHINE 1st and foremost?

If you were threaten with legal prosecution, would you tell? If it meant banishment from the BDA, and all of your liscensing aggreements abolished and revoked, would you put your business on the line just to spread contract information? I do not think so. As close as I am to the bluray insiders(and one even went to college with me), If I cannot get information on this, you know some snotting nosed gaming freak hasn't a chance. There is no information that I have devulge here, that has not already been reveal at bluray.com. You are spreading lies, you know you are, and it is stupid of you to continue this course. I visit almost all the major and some minor AV sites out there, I have heard of no one mentioning this AT ALL, because no one knows a single detail of this. This is nothing more than one of you fat between the bun lies. Move on, you have absolutely no traction here, that is for sure. .

Well, if you sell out the US, it means DEATH. And still, state secrets are sold. So please stop pretending that it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to leak a secret. And just because someone doesn't come running to you with a tattoo on their forhead that says "I LEAK INFO" doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'm not lying, but your delusional.

You can call me idot, old man, or anything other name. I am unfazed by this. So if you were trying to get an effect, the only effect you got was everyone now knows what a little kid your truely are.

No, not really. The only thing that people are realizing since your return is what a tool you are. You can sputter, and bloviate, and try to bully people, but in the end your just a hyperventilating out of touch ass.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

And I'm sure that it's going to be $200 million forever. In 5 years, lets revisit this topic. By then BR/HD-DVD will be an afterthought, and D/L will be on top.

Half right. HD DVD will be an afterthought, and BR would have had a 3.8billion dollar head start. D/L would have to go through a costly internet face lift, broadband would have to be in over 70% of American homes, and the only delivery system for movies would have to be downloads. Best estimate for this is more than a decade, cause you haven't even started the process.

You started with the liar comments dumb ass. Just waiting for you to actually debate, instead of trying to come up with witty coments about my Avatar. But since you actually don't have anything realistic or on topic to add, I'll wait for your next meat reference.

You lied, not just once, but several times. So if I am a dumb ass, then you must be a beyond retarded ass, because I have shot and killed every last one of your points dead better than a drive by.

Then perhaps you ought to stop commenting about them. Your lack of knowledge and intellegence are showing.

Gettin a little short on real info huh. You have to prove claims of lack of knowledge and intelligence, you just can't say it and hope it sticks.

No, I think I was referencing the fact that its easier to pull the HD out of the PS3 (it is). It wouldn't be that difficult to then attach the HD to a computer. A little emulation and it can access the info. On the 360, you need to modify the motherboard. It is different.

Emulation is not going to help get you past copy protection, oh but a little gamer child probably would not know this. The only way to get any information off the drive of a PS3 is took hook it to a computer that has a HDCP compliant input. This prevents hard drive misuse. I know this, because I actually own one. The fact is, you do not, so what you say is suspect, more so because you have already been busted telling lies.

For the PS3, there are A LOT of Linux applications that are doing the same thing that motherboard "mods" are doing to the 360. But you wouldn't know that because you don't care. So stop acting like your the definative source on console info. Because your not.

When you actually OWN the PS3, you do not have to be a definitive source on console info, just read the instructions. And sorry, a linux application can be rendered useless in the PS3 by a simple firmware upgrade that cannot be avoided. You try and play a new game, or movie that REQUIRES a firmware update, and it is disabled. Since alot of the newer movies are requiring thses updates to play the movies, then there is no way out. With games it is even more covered in that all you have to do is put the firmware update within the game, and boom there goes the application. Remember Sony is not obligated to use Linux or support it, and it is not required to make the player operate. Mine does not use Linux.

And please explain the last comment on your quote? How is a modded 360 going to play hacked movies? Without the latest "Key" the movies don't play. Get on live to get a key, and your system is "bricked". Seems like a waste to kill your system for a $4.00 d/l. But again your ignorance gets in the way of your inability to shut up when your behind.

Sorry, but hacked movies don't need keys. And if you have modded your player at the motherboard level, the keys are not necessary to play any pirated game or movie. What makes a game pirated, is that the security codes are already cracked and off the game or movie. Just like a ripped CD or DVD. Once again, your comment only pertain to XBOX live connections. If you do not connect, they cannot brick your system. If you are using pirated games and movies, then there is absolutely no reason to go to XBOX live. Bang, shot again!

No, your total lack of grip of reality can only lead one to belive that you are in advanced stages of dementia. So, you might be young in years, but your mental ability can only be described as "ancient".

When unable to debate effectively, just spin it to a personal level. Old trick for such a young kid. Us "old men" knew about this when the dinosaur ruled the earth. Its a shame you kiddy's are just now learning old school, because we "old men" see you coming, and going.

The fact that Disney is even offering programming for d/l is a pretty big thing for MS. It's not like they said MS will NEVER get more, they are starting out slowly. Discount it all you want, but every business starts slowly. Just because physical media is a larger business model now doesn't mean it will be forever. Only a total ass would assume it will. My money is on your studio even looking at internet distribution for media in the future.

If Disney or any other studio said no more content, game over for XBOX live. Microsoft does not produce content. So now they are starting of slowly, what happen to the flocking? I know what happen, I work at a studio, and I know mine is not flocking to XBOX live at all. Based on what other studio are offering, they don't seem to be flocking either. If you backpeddle any harder, you may fall and hurt the ground ole beefy one.

Never said that people don't do sales projections. But they certainly don't bank on a $ to $ relation of ads run to sales.

Once again, where did I say it was dollar for dollar. What you are making it seem like is companies are just thowing money at advertising without any expectation of a return. Wrong! Before a company throws out million of dollars, they go through market strategies, focus groups, preview commercial and advertising for effectiveness of focus groups, more focus groups etc.. By then they have spent resources already, and if the campaign does not meet sales projections, then its on to a new strategy. The whole process is methotical, and very measure, but certainly not the mindless waste you assert. Companies EXPECT a certain level of return on their investment, and anyone that says otherwise, is a mindless idiot.

Pets.com went out of business you moron. But who cares right? They were ADVERTISING dammit!

Not relevant at all. It just shows they didn't do their homework. They probably followed your advise.

Nope, not contesting a thing. But I guess they should re-evaluate their advertising if they can't even convince a dolt like yourself to buy.

Well, since I haven't bought their stuff, sure does bring to question the silly name calling doesn't it? Not as dumb as you claim. Did I ever tell you that meat does not have brains?

You do realize that there are different levels of "Secret" right? For god's sake, we cant even get the VP of the US to keep treasonous secrets "secret". So your 170 company consortium can? Please.

Give it up man, I already explained this. If Warner had not signed, they would have to give up their seat. If they gave up their seat, then the whole world would know in about two seconds thanks to the internet just like it did after the Paramount deal broke. No such thing has happen, which confirms that you are spreading lies, something you have continuously done. Hence, liar. The computer companies that are members of the BDA do not know the contractural obligation of the movie companies, and visa versa. Only the movie studios that support the BDA know what other studios contract obligation are, because they are all simular. So what we are talking about is no more than 10-15 people who know what the studios are doing, or not. Significantly less than the hundreds of thousands that know US secrets at any given level. Give it up wally, call the dog in, the hunt is over because the trail is cold.

So stop acting like you know anything about consoles. You do own one after all. Remember, the one that SONY President stated is a GAME MACHINE 1st and foremost?

Then why does Sony marketing it as a entertainment center? There has been only one Sony President presiding over the development of the PS3, and nowhere have I ever read a statement that he calls it a game machine first and foremost. He has called it the mercedes of entertainment center however.

Well, if you sell out the US, it means DEATH. And still, state secrets are sold. So please stop pretending that it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to leak a secret. And just because someone doesn't come running to you with a tattoo on their forhead that says "I LEAK INFO" doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'm not lying, but your delusional.

Your leak has no truth to it. None. I have already stated what would happen if the leak was actually accurate, but since none of these events have happen, you are spreading lies, and trying to make it stick. If it were true, then everyone would already know it. Since it is not even mentioned online ANYWHERE, you are trying to cover a lie you are spreading. Classless your beefyness.

No, not really. The only thing that people are realizing since your return is what a tool you are. You can sputter, and bloviate, and try to bully people, but in the end your just a hyperventilating out of touch ass.

Ohh, looks like your leathery hide has bunched at the bum. Geeze, I have never been called a tool, though I never went camping until this weekend. I guess you keep living, and lots of new things happen to ya. Calling me a bully after all the things you have said sounds like another major case of passive/aggressive. You want to act like you know something, blow your little barrel chest out and call names, and when it is batted back into place, you cry bully. Is this the teeny bopper way of throwing a fit because your diaper is wet?

[Groundbeef]

Half right. HD DVD will be an afterthought, and BR would have had a 3.8billion dollar head start. D/L would have to go through a costly internet face lift, broadband would have to be in over 70% of American homes, and the only delivery system for movies would have to be downloads. Best estimate for this is more than a decade, cause you haven't even started the process.

Where do you get your information? Stupid Daily? Broadband is gaining at a rate of almost 50% a year. Narrowband is falling quickly.

According to this report, 75% thats 75% of households that have internet are utilizing BROADBAND. And new households that are acquiring internet access are choosing broadband.

http://www.bizreport.com/2007/07/thr...broadband.html

Hell, back in 2004, thats 3 short years ago, but pretty close to when you look for most of your data, the 10 largest cities with internet access were hovering at between 60-70% broadband access!

Looks like the future is here, but somehow you got left back at the station. Did you know TV's come in color now?

If you weren't so stupid, you might be able to find some of this info before you go off an post more dribble.

You lied, not just once, but several times. So if I am a dumb ass, then you must be a beyond retarded ass, because I have shot and killed every last one of your points dead better than a drive by.

I haven't lied once. BTW what classifies as a "Lie". I would suggest that your posting only 1/2 of the story (360 broken for piracy), then neglecting to post that "MS bricking modded 360's" would be at a minimum shading the truth, at worst LYING.

And the only thing that you have managed to shoot is your foot. Unless of course you forgot to pull it out of your waistband, and shot off your junk. That scenario is probably closer to the truth.

Emulation is not going to help get you past copy protection, oh but a little gamer child probably would not know this. The only way to get any information off the drive of a PS3 is took hook it to a computer that has a HDCP compliant input. This prevents hard drive misuse. I know this, because I actually own one. The fact is, you do not, so what you say is suspect, more so because you have already been busted telling lies.

I'm sure that you are well aware of PS3 owners "ripping" BluRay disks onto the drive, and converting them onto PC's right? The key is proving somewhat problematic, but not impossible. Remeber, it was thought that even ripping the BluRay would not be possible.

And your highlighed statement above, what does that prove? Have you actually been trying to circumvent security? Shame on you...

When you actually OWN the PS3, you do not have to be a definitive source on console info, just read the instructions. And sorry, a linux application can be rendered useless in the PS3 by a simple firmware upgrade that cannot be avoided. You try and play a new game, or movie that REQUIRES a firmware update, and it is disabled. Since alot of the newer movies are requiring thses updates to play the movies, then there is no way out. With games it is even more covered in that all you have to do is put the firmware update within the game, and boom there goes the application. Remember Sony is not obligated to use Linux or support it, and it is not required to make the player operate. Mine does not use Linux.

Sure it can be avoided. Just like the XBOX 360. Take it off the network, no more firmware updates.

Also, SlySoft is reporting that they have broken BD+ on EndgadetHD (Has to be the 2nd biggest cheerleader for BR just behind Sir T). The actual article is translated from the German newsite, so its a little choppy in the grammer department. I guess it really didn't take 10 years to bust it huh?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/30...rs-fall-quiet/

Sorry, but hacked movies don't need keys. And if you have modded your player at the motherboard level, the keys are not necessary to play any pirated game or movie. What makes a game pirated, is that the security codes are already cracked and off the game or movie. Just like a ripped CD or DVD. Once again, your comment only pertain to XBOX live connections. If you do not connect, they cannot brick your system. If you are using pirated games and movies, then there is absolutely no reason to go to XBOX live. Bang, shot again!

The only thing you shot was your foot again. Please explain to me how a modded system is going to get movies off LIVE? They get bricked when they connect.

Again, unless you are going to be getting movies off LIVE, its a red herring. I suppose one could load up the player with about 10 movies MOD the motherboard, and then NEVER connect to LIVE again. So if you want to kill your system for 10 $4 movies, thats a risk. But pirated movies, and duplicated DVD's have NOTHING to do with d/l content. Thats why studios are FLOCKING to live. Not the PS3.

When unable to debate effectively, just spin it to a personal level. Old trick for such a young kid. Us "old men" knew about this when the dinosaur ruled the earth. Its a shame you kiddy's are just now learning old school, because we "old men" see you coming, and going.

You are joking right? Or is it the dementia again? You call NightFlier "Gay" (Homophobic? Thats OLD SCHOOL). You manage to throw in a "retard" comment at myself. You have sunk so low, we are all waiting for the obligitory "Nazi" comment. That will pretty much wrap up your "debate" skills. You don't even debate well enough to be called a kid. Your just pathetic.

If Disney or any other studio said no more content, game over for XBOX live. Microsoft does not produce content. So now they are starting of slowly, what happen to the flocking? I know what happen, I work at a studio, and I know mine is not flocking to XBOX live at all. Based on what other studio are offering, they don't seem to be flocking either. If you backpeddle any harder, you may fall and hurt the ground ole beefy one.

How long did you work on that highlight there Einstein? I mean thats got to be one of the richest, most thought provoking, evoctivie, well researched, and presented points ever spoken on this or any other A/V board EVER. You could have only topped it off by suggesting "If the USA stopped producing Electricity, all electrical appliances would stop working!!!". Way to point out the olbvious. Do you have any more brilliant flashes to share with us?

The fact that studios are working with MS/ Apple/ and other content providers to provide any sort of media is a HUGE step. Like it or not, D/L is going to rule the day. It might not now, but it will. Just because you are too dense doesn't mean it wont happen.

Once again, where did I say it was dollar for dollar. What you are making it seem like is companies are just thowing money at advertising without any expectation of a return. Wrong! Before a company throws out million of dollars, they go through market strategies, focus groups, preview commercial and advertising for effectiveness of focus groups, more focus groups etc.. By then they have spent resources already, and if the campaign does not meet sales projections, then its on to a new strategy. The whole process is methotical, and very measure, but certainly not the mindless waste you assert. Companies EXPECT a certain level of return on their investment, and anyone that says otherwise, is a mindless idiot.

Really? Everyone? And what about the compaines that only spend a few hundred $$ or a few thousand $$. Do they do all that expensive research as well? I never said that companies don't expect ROI on their advertisements, but you seem to think that its a simple number to quantify. And its not. So stop pretending that at the end of the day, the finance/accounting department gets a definiative # explaining exactly how many ads went out, and the corresponding # of sales related to the ad. Because they don't.

You sir, are the mindless idiot. Trapped in your own delusional fog about everything.

Not relevant at all. It just shows they didn't do their homework. They probably followed your advise.

No, it only shows that plenty of companies waste money. And that you continue to comment about things you don't know about. Pets.Com was one of the big dot.com deaths. Since you follow (or want people to belive anyway) advertising so closesly, I thought that you SURELY would know about 1 of the biggest casulaties. Again, your ignorance is showcased however.

Well, since I haven't bought their stuff, sure does bring to question the silly name calling doesn't it? Not as dumb as you claim. Did I ever tell you that meat does not have brains?

Oh look everyone another meat reference. Does everyone hear the crickets chirping at yet another "Beef" joke...man you are like a one trick pony. And your trick was over quite a few posts ago. With writing like that I suspect you were the driving force behind that Caveman Show on ABC.

Give it up man, I already explained this. If Warner had not signed, they would have to give up their seat. If they gave up their seat, then the whole world would know in about two seconds thanks to the internet just like it did after the Paramount deal broke. No such thing has happen, which confirms that you are spreading lies, something you have continuously done. Hence, liar. The computer companies that are members of the BDA do not know the contractural obligation of the movie companies, and visa versa. Only the movie studios that support the BDA know what other studios contract obligation are, because they are all simular. So what we are talking about is no more than 10-15 people who know what the studios are doing, or not. Significantly less than the hundreds of thousands that know US secrets at any given level. Give it up wally, call the dog in, the hunt is over because the trail is cold.

They don't have to give up their seat. They can operate under the old agreement. Companies do it all the time during negotiations. You should know this, but again that would involve some thought on your part. The bigger news is whether or not Warner has RE-Signed. I'm not suggesting they will or will not. But the contract has lapsed, and no press conference has been called to say its been re-upped.

Then why does Sony marketing it as a entertainment center? There has been only one Sony President presiding over the development of the PS3, and nowhere have I ever read a statement that he calls it a game machine first and foremost. He has called it the mercedes of entertainment center however.

You are such a dumbass. The CEO of Sony Entertainmet you are referring to was "re-assigned". The newest president said at the Tokyo Game Show IN SEPTEMBER 2007. (Current Info. I know you hate it, but its more current than your 2 year old feeble citations you typically throw up). Here's his actual words:

PlayStation 3 might play Blu-Ray movies, and it might help scientific research like Folding@Home, but Sony wants you to know that it's a game machine first and foremost.

That was the message from Sony Computer Entertainment group CEO Kaz Hirai at his Tokyo Game Show keynote address Thursday morning, as he attempted to show the assembled press that Sony has righted its course with the embattled game player.

"As the fundamental point of our system, I think it is still a game machine," Hirai said. "We want people to first enjoy it for the possibility of interactive games. If we pursue too many directions, people will keep asking us, 'What is PlayStation'?"

Here's the actual article, hope you can read it with all the big words and all:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/09/...rai-plays.html

Your leak has no truth to it. None. I have already stated what would happen if the leak was actually accurate, but since none of these events have happen, you are spreading lies, and trying to make it stick. If it were true, then everyone would already know it. Since it is not even mentioned online ANYWHERE, you are trying to cover a lie you are spreading. Classless your beefyness.

ANOTHER meat reference. You've really outdone yourself this time. Please, don't forget to tip the waitress, and try the veal, its excellent!

And unless you have some confidential info you're not supposed to share, I have'nt lied about anything. Man, you are really terrible in this whole debate thing. Once again, you've been schooled!

Ohh, looks like your leathery hide has bunched at the bum. Geeze, I have never been called a tool, though I never went camping until this weekend. I guess you keep living, and lots of new things happen to ya. Calling me a bully after all the things you have said sounds like another major case of passive/aggressive. You want to act like you know something, blow your little barrel chest out and call names, and when it is batted back into place, you cry bully. Is this the teeny bopper way of throwing a fit because your diaper is wet?

Teeny bopper? Whoochiefer used that about 1 year ago, so I guess now to top it off you also plagiarize others posts on this board. Nice touch.

Talk about acting like I know something? Have you even read what you type? Or is it all top of mind stuff? I mean its not even good. Mostly out of date links supported by some BR shilling? Well, try again, it's always fun to burst your ballon.

[L.J.]

Whoochiefer

Who the heck is that? Must be Wooch's evil twin brother

[Woochifer]

Teeny bopper? Whoochiefer used that about 1 year ago, so I guess now to top it off you also plagiarize others posts on this board. Nice touch.

Uh, getting awfully hung up on word usage now aren't we? It would only be plagiarism if I'd actually invented the term or if T quoted me verbatim without attribution. Just in case you didn't know, I did not originate the term and T would not be the first person on this board to use it. Also, if you search my previous posts, you'd note that aside from this thread I've never actually used the exact term "teeny bopper" on this board, whereas many others have.

http://forums.audioreview.com/search...earchid=147980

Talk about acting like I know something? Have you even read what you type? Or is it all top of mind stuff? I mean its not even good. Mostly out of date links supported by some BR shilling? Well, try again, it's always fun to burst your ballon.

Right, and your views on HD-DVD and the Xbox 360 are totally objective!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Where do you get your information? Stupid Daily? Broadband is gaining at a rate of almost 50% a year. Narrowband is falling quickly.


According to this report, 75% thats 75% of households that have internet are utilizing BROADBAND. And new households that are acquiring internet access are choosing broadband.

http://www.bizreport.com/2007/07/thr...broadband.html

Yes, Broadband as we have in America according to your stats is at 75%. However, just as I made my point earlier, the broadband we have in this country is not as fast as the rest of the world, and not ready for mass downloading as well. Comcast is already starting to slow traffic down, or stop it entirely for P2P users sharing files because of bandwidth issues. This is just file sharing. When we start talking about those 75% downloading movies, it will get far worse than this. I have stated this to you time and time again, the internet as we have now cannot support widespread movie downloads, it is having a tough time handling P2P file sharing.

http://valleywag.com/tech/lawsuits/c...ion-314188.php

http://pressesc.com/01179677598_us_internet_slow

Hell, back in 2004, thats 3 short years ago, but pretty close to when you look for most of your data, the 10 largest cities with internet access were hovering at between 60-70% broadband access!

This is meaningless if the traffic is bottled up and slow.

Looks like the future is here, but somehow you got left back at the station. Did you know TV's come in color now?

If you weren't so stupid, you might be able to find some of this info before you go off an post more dribble.

If this is what you call the future, then your standards are much lower than mine, and your idea of the future is much different than reality will support.

I haven't lied once. BTW what classifies as a "Lie". I would suggest that your posting only 1/2 of the story (360 broken for piracy), then neglecting to post that "MS bricking modded 360's" would be at a minimum shading the truth, at worst LYING.

I posted mulitple posting of 360 broken for piracy, the links are there, if there was a lie, they told it not me. Are you disputing the links for their accuracy?

And the only thing that you have managed to shoot is your foot. Unless of course you forgot to pull it out of your waistband, and shot off your junk. That scenario is probably closer to the truth.

When you have no facts or info, just insult.

I'm sure that you are well aware of PS3 owners "ripping" BluRay disks onto the drive, and converting them onto PC's right? The key is proving somewhat problematic, but not impossible. Remeber, it was thought that even ripping the BluRay would not be possible.

Well aware of Slysoft software. You notice it is not everywhere? Did you notice that Slysoft has refused to talk about how they did the crack? I tell you why, they know that it is not easy to break BD+ permanently. The BDA can simply revoke the current keys on the fly, and can keep changing them via BD+. Slysoft would have to know every key issued now, and in the future for their software to be effective. Then they would have to figure out a way around BD-Rom as well, because they work hand in hand. If you attempt to play the disc with the security ripped off, it will not play in any bluray drive.

And your highlighed statement above, what does that prove? Have you actually been trying to circumvent security? Shame on you...

Stupid statement, no need to reply to this.

Sure it can be avoided. Just like the XBOX 360. Take it off the network, no more firmware updates.

Thank you for making my point.

Also, SlySoft is reporting that they have broken BD+ on EndgadetHD (Has to be the 2nd biggest cheerleader for BR just behind Sir T). The actual article is translated from the German newsite, so its a little choppy in the grammer department. I guess it really didn't take 10 years to bust it huh?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/30...rs-fall-quiet/

Slysoft has not revealed how they did the crack, so until they do, we do not know just how he got a single key to a single disc. They have not been able to get multiple keys according to the BD+ insiders on bluray.com, and if they do, they would have to know what the new keys were to make the software useful. Nobody knows the new keys, not even the party issueing them.

The only thing you shot was your foot again. Please explain to me how a modded system is going to get movies off LIVE? They get bricked when they connect.

You do not need live when you have access to a unlimited supply of bootleg movies and games right?

Again, unless you are going to be getting movies off LIVE, its a red herring. I suppose one could load up the player with about 10 movies MOD the motherboard, and then NEVER connect to LIVE again. So if you want to kill your system for 10 $4 movies, thats a risk. But pirated movies, and duplicated DVD's have NOTHING to do with d/l content. Thats why studios are FLOCKING to live. Not the PS3.

Flocking is defined as a crowd of people. If not every studio is supporting live, then how do you define a crowd? If english is your first language, then perhaps you need to know how to correctly use words.

Who needs to store any movies on the hard drive? Just go to a corner in most large cities, and you have access to plenty of bootlegged movies and games.

You are joking right? Or is it the dementia again? You call NightFlier "Gay" (Homophobic? Thats OLD SCHOOL). You manage to throw in a "retard" comment at myself. You have sunk so low, we are all waiting for the obligitory "Nazi" comment. That will pretty much wrap up your "debate" skills. You don't even debate well enough to be called a kid. Your just pathetic.

I guess consuming too much of yourself has happered your reading skills. I ASKED nighliar if he was gay, I did not call him gay. Asking someone a question is not homphobic is it?

How long did you work on that highlight there Einstein? I mean thats got to be one of the richest, most thought provoking, evoctivie, well researched, and presented points ever spoken on this or any other A/V board EVER. You could have only topped it off by suggesting "If the USA stopped producing Electricity, all electrical appliances would stop working!!!". Way to point out the olbvious. Do you have any more brilliant flashes to share with us?

Sometimes you have to point to the obvious because alot of stupid people cannot figure it out themselves.

The fact that studios are working with MS/ Apple/ and other content providers to provide any sort of media is a HUGE step. Like it or not, D/L is going to rule the day. It might not now, but it will. Just because you are too dense doesn't mean it wont happen.

Well when it rules the world as you say, let me know. The only thing ruling anything right now is the studios over Microsoft. Its not really that big of a step either, everyone knew some studios were going to support downloads sooner or later.

Really? Everyone? And what about the compaines that only spend a few hundred $$ or a few thousand $$. Do they do all that expensive research as well? I never said that companies don't expect ROI on their advertisements, but you seem to think that its a simple number to quantify. And its not. So stop pretending that at the end of the day, the finance/accounting department gets a definiative # explaining exactly how many ads went out, and the corresponding # of sales related to the ad. Because they don't.

Your whole assesment of what I think is as out of whack as your understanding of advertising in general. It is really difficult to debate if you cannot read and comphrehend a post. Read the cavieat about the millions of dollars, or do you have comprehension trouble with that as well.

If a company spends a few hundred or thousand dollars, it would be on local advertising. Surely nobody is going to spend five thousand dollars worth of time and resources for a hundred or few thousand dollars worth of advertising. The expectation will be much lower, but there are still some expectation on ROI. What just because you spend only a hundred or a thousand dollars on advertising you should not expect a return? This is small business numbers where every dollar counts, and a completely different process on how to advertise. Television is one thing(millions of dollars) local print is another.

You sir, are the mindless idiot. Trapped in your own delusional fog about everything.

You have already confessed that you know less than I, so what does this make you?

No, it only shows that plenty of companies waste money. And that you continue to comment about things you don't know about. Pets.Com was one of the big dot.com deaths. Since you follow (or want people to belive anyway) advertising so closesly, I thought that you SURELY would know about 1 of the biggest casulaties. Again, your ignorance is showcased however.

They did not waste money, their management made a stupid choices and poor decisions. They did not do their homework, and became a victim of the dot.com implosion. Their advertising choice were only a part of the problem, their spending habits and overhead where their largest problem. Sorry, you are overstating their downfall, webvan had them beat by a long shot in terms of losses.

Following dotcom failures almost 5 years after the dot com bust is not something I am interested in. I also never said I follow advertising all that closely. However, since I have plenty of friends who own businesses of all sizes, getting information on the subject is not that difficult. I supposed it would be harder for you to get this from you milk sucking game playing kiddy friends huh?

Oh look everyone another meat reference. Does everyone hear the crickets chirping at yet another "Beef" joke...man you are like a one trick pony. And your trick was over quite a few posts ago. With writing like that I suspect you were the driving force behind that Caveman Show on ABC.

Tricks are for kids, I was calling you what you should have been named in the first place.

They don't have to give up their seat. They can operate under the old agreement. Companies do it all the time during negotiations. You should know this, but again that would involve some thought on your part. The bigger news is whether or not Warner has RE-Signed. I'm not suggesting they will or will not. But the contract has lapsed, and no press conference has been called to say its been re-upped.

You obviously do not know BDA protocol. When a company decides to not support the BDA, they MUST give up their seat on the BDA. According to Paidgeek, you cannot operate under a old contract, you must sign another contract on or before the date of the original contract is signed. Companies may do what you state all the time, but not THIS company, not this contract, and not this board of directors. Since this is the rules, Warner obviously has signed a renewed contract, they're continuing to support bluray right? You spread FUD, and when corrected on the guidlines, you have continued to advance this. You have gone from gossip, to liar.

Lastly, you do not have to, not obligated to, its not necessary to call a press conference everytime you make a move. Right? And you say I don't know what i am talking about???

You are such a dumbass. The CEO of Sony Entertainmet you are referring to was "re-assigned". The newest president said at the Tokyo Game Show IN SEPTEMBER 2007. (Current Info. I know you hate it, but its more current than your 2 year old feeble citations you typically throw up). Here's his actual words:

PlayStation 3 might play Blu-Ray movies, and it might help scientific research like Folding@Home, but Sony wants you to know that it's a game machine first and foremost.

That was the message from Sony Computer Entertainment group CEO Kaz Hirai at his Tokyo Game Show keynote address Thursday morning, as he attempted to show the assembled press that Sony has righted its course with the embattled game player.

"As the fundamental point of our system, I think it is still a game machine," Hirai said. "We want people to first enjoy it for the possibility of interactive games. If we pursue too many directions, people will keep asking us, 'What is PlayStation'?"

Here's the actual article, hope you can read it with all the big words and all:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/09/...rai-plays.html

Seems you do not understand the difference between a unit president, and the CEO.

Hirai may have said it was a gaming machine, but Sir Howard Stringer who is his boss calls it an entertainment center. So who should we believe, the one who runs the company, or one of his suboodinates?. He also said fundementally, which means when all other function are removed. Since all the other functions are not removed, then it is hard to call it a gaming system. As any other game machine played SACD's? Does any other game machine have a built in bluray player? Does any other gaming machine upconvert regular DVD's and lesser games to 1080p? If all the PS3 was is just a gaming machine, then why would it have all of these other non gaming features? No wait, you are actually going to have to think about this, and that make cause the largest earthquake this world has every felt.

ANOTHER meat reference. You've really outdone yourself this time. Please, don't forget to tip the waitress, and try the veal, its excellent!

yawn

And unless you have some confidential info you're not supposed to share, I have'nt lied about anything. Man, you are really terrible in this whole debate thing. Once again, you've been schooled!

How can you say you have schooled me and you have not even proven what you said is true LOLOLOL. Where is a link that says Warner has not signed its contract, or when the date of expiration of the old is? Where is it? What is the name of the other site you got this information from? I have not seen either, hence you lied until you have proven you are telling the truth.

Teeny bopper? Whoochiefer used that about 1 year ago, so I guess now to top it off you also plagiarize others posts on this board. Nice touch.

Another stupid response. Are there any brain cells left?

Talk about acting like I know something? Have you even read what you type? Or is it all top of mind stuff? I mean its not even good. Mostly out of date links supported by some BR shilling? Well, try again, it's always fun to burst your ballon.

Yes you act like you know something, and you are a lousy actor because you have no proof to support what you say. Ballons are for kids kid.

[GMichael]

This thread is a fun read.

[Feanor]

This thread is a fun read.

You say you're enjoying reading it; many of us lack the patience. Maybe you could provide us with a synopsis of the meaningful, relevant information. Such a synopsis would be much shorter than the actual thread I dare say.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Nightmare: Real mature, there lil't. I believe it was you who said:

Since I have been bringing things back to your memory let's discuss why I said this. Did you not make this statement;

Sir Terrence the Terrible, what is that, a small weenie complex?

When someone ask me this question on a audio website, I have to wonder if they are gay for focusing on my body parts, and not on the issue. When you can show me a compelling argument that effectively fuses audio and weenies together logically, then I will apologize for what I said. Otherwise the question stands. Cool?

If you have the life that you state you have, then maybe you should tend to it. Because you are not making any points here with the kind of mindless, unsupported, no history points you are attempting to advance in this debate. Let's get to the meat of your posts cause I am hungry.

Point #1: My SACD setup is just fine, thank you

So you are attempting to advance the arguement that you use no delay because all of your speakers are equidistant, and you use no volume balance for your speakers because all of your speakers were perfectly balance right out of the carton?

Well, then you system must sould like crap. I know of nobody who can just plop five speakers in a room, and they all just balance like magic. Every person in the world HAS to do speaker to speaker balance to achieve equal loudness from all speakers, so for you to say you do not makes you full of it. My speakers are frequency, time/phase correct, and tonally matched anechoically, but when I brought them into my room, they require SOME volume compensation from speaker to speaker to acheive identical output. Who are you trying to fool here?

Secondly the ICBM has to pass ALL audio frequencies through its curcuits to filter out the bass. It is not exactly the cleanest or most graceful way to handle SACD audio. Your player just like all universal players has to convert the DSD stream to PCM so it can pass through your players DAC. Even if your player could pass DSD to your receiver raw and untouched, the outlaw cannot process DSD signal to its outputs. They must be converted to PCM to output through its DAC. No matter where you turn my friend, the conversion is there. Then there is the fact that you send your output through another stage of analog processing. So much for the clean signal path. The only way to do what you THINK you are doing, is to have a player that passes a raw DSD stream to your reciever, which can process raw DSD to its outputs. Since all receiver DSP algorythms are built around PCM, there is no chance you are ever going to get what you THINK you already have. Lastly even if you do not use any form of processing including level matching(which I doubt you can get around without telling a fib), your SACD still has to be converted to PCM no matter what. You would be much better off using the internal bass management of you receiver to acheive a clean link to your speakers. One could also make the point that you have sacrificed audio purity for room contamination because you apparently use nothing to compensate for room resonances and standing waves. So much for the minimalist thinking huh? It is VERY difficult to tame these things with bass traps alone without creating other acoustical problems within the room. Can anyone say suckout?

Point #2: Your opinion is too focussed on sales figures

When a studio is going to look at its game plan, they are not goint to trust nightfliers gut feelings, what he thinks, his anecdotal opinions, and his made in a vaccum projections. They look at sales figures and trends. Unknows and things outside the realm of possibilty is not what they are interested in, that is what nightflier attempts to use to counter verfiable information. Your gut, your thoughts, your musing and rantings are not verifable, and when you are debating online, facts and figures are king, your opinion is not. Your opinion cannot be advanced as a fact, but a figure can.

Studios and Record companies are not interested in free material, it makes them no money. Money drives the machine, helps create, market, and distribute the product. Guts, your brain(which you openly admit has lapses), what you think cannot do this. Guts, brains and projections are only powerful when there are fact and figures to support it.

Nobody but you supports the notion that unknowns are important to anything except to you, so stop the lying, spinning and trying to make it look like there is broad support for your conclusions . Give up the several people support my opinion crap, because only you support your opinion. What you need to do is start to read more verifiable information instead of trying to advance your invented in a vaccum and gut information. I am reading what people who make the decisions read. You are reading your gut and brain which are very uniformed, and not verifiable. Do you think any Studio or Record company executive takes your approach, or mine? Think about his very carefully before you come up with another off the cuff stupid answer okay?

VOD=$200 million dollars worth of business to the studios and cable companies in 2006, less than 2005.
Bluray and HD DVD= $4 billion dollars in player and software sales for the year between October 2006 and 2007. Sales figures are the only thing that a decision maker want to see. Is this too hard for you to grasp? While unit sales are only show a 5% share against the DVD market, it is a 26% share in terms of revenue.

Point #3: Your contention that there is no music that uses bass below 40Hz

Nobody needs to listen to every peice of music to understand that acoustical(non amplified music) recordings sans organ have no useful information below 40hz. All one has to do is look at the chart that explains and shows the frequency response of instruments most used in acoustical orchestrial music.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/frequency_e.html

The instrument with the lowest response is the double bass at 41.20hz. The only other instrument that goes lower is the C pedal on a large organ at 16hz(not 8hz as you assert) or a VERY huge bass drum which is not used in a majority of classical music. You can forget your LP's and very deep bass, because LP's cannot track any bass frequencies below 35hz without the needle jumping off the vinyl itself, especially at high levels. I also own quite a few CD, concert DVD, SACD and DVD-A as well. But I do not have to guess what frequencies are excited by the music. I can just look over at 6 RTA's that span from 20hz-20khz on each of my 5.1 channels and they can tell me EXACTLY what frequencies are being excited. You can only guess, and guess what? There ear is terrible at telling you exactly what frequencies you are hearing. It may sound deep to the ear, but not be below 50hz on a RTA. When it comes to deep bass, our ears are just not that sensitive to frequency or amplitude for that matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher-Munson_curves

The only music that contains deep loud bass, is music that uses sample drums that have been EQ'd(like rap music) sythesized music(this can go as low as 10hz) and pop music(which is not acoustical by anyones standards). The piano which can go as low as 27.5hz cannot do that very loud at all. The bass pedals on a organ(the way it is recorded) can play audible signals down to 16hz, but not loud enough to overload any system electrically.

I really do not care if you have a 10' tall sub, it is only there to reproduce what is on the recording. If the acoustical recording does not have very deep bass(98% don't) then it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Oh and by the way, a cannon is not an acoustical instrument, it is an instrument of war. The rest of your useless musing have no relevance to the topic at hand, because you have no verifiable way of measuring what you think you hear.

Point #4: BR & HDDVD only make up 5% of the market - that makes BR just 3%

This point is only worthwhile if time stops right now. It does not. So let me once again point out facts to you. At one point CD sales where 1% of LP's. At one point SACD and DVD-A sales where 1% of CD's(and probably stayed that way throughout its lifetime). At one time DVD's were 1% of VHS, and HD DVD/BR sales where 1% of DVD's. All grew over time, because time does not stand still.

Artists create music either in a studio or live event. The music goes to post production for sweetening(some cases not). The record companies hear it and decide how to market it. It is distributed and purchased. This has not changed since the advent of the LP. The only thing that has changed is the distribution network with the addition of the internet. While marketing TOOLS have changed, the overall practice of marketing music has not. While promotional TOOLS have changed, the way music is promoted has not.

Movies are created in live locations or studio backlots. The elements of the movie are assembled in post production. The marketing department reviews the movie, and decide what marketing slant to take. The movie is distributed theatrically. When its run is over, the movie is prepared for encoding for at one time VHS, then DVD and now DVD and HD on disc. The TOOLS for this have gotten more sophisticated and better, and some practices for post preparation for encoding have changed. But fundementally the process has not changed much. What has changed is the distribution system with the introduction of the internet. Marketing TOOLS have change, but the practice of marketing a movie has not. Promotional TOOLS have changed, but the practice of promoting a movie theatrically or on disc has not. So to advance the theory that EVERYTHING has so drastically change that something that happen 15 years ago is irrelevant is as stupid as the thought that a ship full of players going down in the ocean effects the pricing structure of the players in the market. HD DVD and Bluray are following the same practice of adoption as the DVD. CD follow the same practice of adoption as the LP. DVD followed the same practice of adoption as VHS. The only change to the landscape has been the distribution of movies via the internet. That is only another TOOL for distribution, not a wholesale change of the way business is done. Only a person making a judgement based on his guts and feeling would advance this kind of theory. So much for your understanding of how things have been done for 30 years. Not much change, but alot of new tools to get a product out there.

Point #5: Downloading didn't start 3-4 years ago (in 2004)

Once again this points out that you do not read what I type. I did not say downloading began 3-4 years ago, I said LEGAL downloading did not began until 3-4 years ago. You have to read ALL the words to get a clear understanding nightmare. P2P started with ripping a disc to your computer, so a disc had to be purchased before a P2P trade took place, right?

In 1998 there were many other reason CD sales were slipping, and illegal downloading was not the major one, or even a minor one. Disc pricing was the major one, and this was indentified in a survey by Warner and Universal records. P2P was so small then, there was absolutely no evidence that it was the issue. I have already identified other reasons in this post.

Secondly, CD sales were suffering way before Itunes and any other downloading service was ever invented. Back in 2002 sales of the CD were slipping in favor of concert DVD's. Back in 2000 sales of CD were slipping because there was too much junk being recorded by the major labels who control the CD market.

There is ample evidence to support this notion. When a concert DVD was released, the sale of the identical audio CD fell dramatically. People wanted images to go with their music on their 5.1 system, and they bought the DVD in greater numbers than the CD. There was a direct correlation to this phenom. You could not download or trade concert videos back in that day right?

In the year 2000 the major record labels did a major year long study and survey as to why sales began to slip. The response came back from the consumer that audio quality, and content quality was the major problem, not downloading. As a matter of fact there is no evidence that even illegal downloads have any effect of sales at all. Here is one study that went back to 2002;

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070212-8813.html

As a matter of fact pirating can actually increase sales of music that is of good quality to the consumer;

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=748832003

http://torrentfreak.com/piracy-boosts-cd-sales-071103/

According to this report file sharing was at a all time high only as late as 2005

http://www.prohiphop.com/2006/01/improved_cd_sal.html

So much for your assertion that downloads effect sales of discs. And so much for your assertion that the 1998-2003 period was not covered. I did covered it, and quite well I might add. Poof! That was your argument going up in smoke bro.

Point #6: Microsoft's support of HDDVD is significant

Is it? Well, their support did not help HD DVD with the sell of tranformers versus nothing released by BR in the same week of its release did it? HD DVD was outsold that week even with a strong exclusive title. Should HD DVD thank Microsoft for that?

Microsoft support has not helped HD DVD much in terms of disc sold as BR is outselling HD DVD 2-1 since inception in America has it not? World wide it is more like 4.1, not much help there either is there?

It has not help HD DVD with player sales since standalones are neck and neck(inspite of the fact the BR players are more expensive), and overall HD DVD is being outsold world wide 5-1 when you include all players with a internal bluray drive and all players with a HD DVD drive.

Microsoft could not convince the BDA to go with HDi could it? The BDA chose BD-java

Microsoft could not convince the cable industry to include windows CE as the cable box operating system could they? Interactive television never got off the ground.

Microsoft does not own movies do they? The studios own those, so Microsoft is beholden to them, not the other way around.

It is a mistake to equate Microsoft sucess of their core business and transfer that outward to other business ventures. Microsoft cannot overcome the HD DVD problems with their might. The issues are much too profound. How does microsoft might address the fact that Toshiba is the only manufacturer making players? How does microsoft overcome the fact the Sony, Disney, Lionsgate, and Fox will not support HD DVD?

Your point is overstated, as usual.

Point #7: Classe and Denon upcoming players

I was wrong huh

Well, didn't I read on this forum that they are just about to release one? I also think that companies like Classe are already ramping up to release a HD player, but they will do like most other companies and wait out this holiday season

Now are you denying you said they are ramping up to release a HD player, as in HD DVD, because I must tell you, nobody calls a bluray player a HD player, they call it a bluray player. Now if this is just another one of your " I didn't mean that" responses, then maybe you should think before posting a response. I know this would be difficult for you, but give it a try. It will save you alot of headache in the long run.

Then you came back with this charmer;

I said that Denon had announced one, not Classe

Denon annouced a bluray player not a HD player. HD is usually associated with HD DVD not bluray.

You never mention that your friend work in the sales department at classe, here is what you said.

But since I doubt that will satisfy you, I asked one of my friends to inquire what if anything they had in the works. He is a long time Classe fanatic, owns several components, and is also waiting to see if Classe will release something. Naturally, they didn't want to commit to anything, but they did say something interesting: that "A degree of uncertainty continues to cloud the future of the new blue laser disc formats and it remains unclear which, if any, of these formats will become the dominant technology." While this may not calm you down from chomping at the bit, it does call the future of both formats into question. And that is precisely what I've been trying to say: people should wait before investing a lot of money in either format. Now if Classe isn't willing to commit to one format (not even BR with its vaulted extra capacity), then wouldn't it be a safer policy for us to wait as well? At the very least, let's wait and see what shakes out of the tree this holiday season.

Now it is this;

Now regarding that quote about Classe, it did not come from my friend, it came straight from Classe's sales department. If you'd have bothered to read my words a little better, you would not have been caught with your foot in your mouth, again.

I think I read your words quite clear, and it just proves that your are either a pathological liar, or you have the disease called footinmouth. Your classe story has taken on all kinds of versions, it's no wonder anyone can keep track. Your lying, and you know you are lying, so stop, just stop the lying and spining nightliar. There was no annoucement in Stereophile period. I went through about a years worth of my stereophile mags just to see if you were telling the truth. You were not, so this is just a lie to make a point, a pointless point. So now that you have been caught in several lies, how does one believe a word you say in any of your posts?

Point #8: Confusion about the HDMI spec could very well be deterring sales

Where is your proof? I have been asking for this since page two. Where is it?. I do not want to read what you think, I want to read a link that proves your assertions. Mine are quite supportable. I have long said the format wars are the reason people are not jumping into either bluray or HD DVD like crazy. That is the main reason. Other reasons include they not ready to trade in my DVD player, and price. There is online article after another supporting this. There are absolutely no articles supporting that HDMI version are the reasons ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NIL. That may be YOUR reasons, and that is born out of pure ignorace to what each version does. When music is released to bluray or HD DVD, you can bet it will not be in the SACD format. You can get 8 channels of PCM 24/96khz audio uncompressed on HDMI 1.1 version, so if music is your bag, this is what you get. If you are choosing not to support it because it will not support your precious SACD collection, then good, don't. I do not think anyone cares except you.

So back at ya nightliar. Now that I have address these points, and others as well, are you willing to be a student like you tried to be when you started this post? Or are you going to continue to advance stupid, inane, absent minded, historically non existant, outright lies out of your gut, brain, and in some cases your bum?

[nightflier]

Since I have been bringing things back to your memory let's discuss why I said this. Did you not make this statement: "Sir Terrence the Terrible, what is that, a small weenie complex?"

Yes, I was referring to your inferiority complex. I mean who calls himself "Sir Terrence, the Terrible" anyhow? It's like you crawled out of some dungeons and dragons rule book and decided this would be a good place to troll around. You're so full of yourself, so arrogantly defensive, and so concerned about your rep, the only possible conclusion is that you're trying to compensate for something. My guess is that you have manhood problems and my saying so has no gay intentions whatsoever. Heck you're the one going on about people's bums, lesbians, and articles of lingerie. And you want to call me gay? Pluuease! Now unless you really need to come out of the closet, you better stop about this gay business, you're not gaining any traction with it.

Oh and as far as relating your inferiority complex to audio, isn't that why you're always bragging about how good your system is and how much better than everyone else's it is? So if you have a need to overcompensate, it's no surprise you do it through your fancy system too. By the way, you could stand to upgrade those amps and buy something a little higher class than that Sony stuff. Oh, I forgot, you're probably a shill for them too.

So let's get on with the points I made that you are so intent on attacking.

(Point #1: My SACD setup is just fine, thank you)

So off you go with your technical nonsense and yacking about how my system can't possibly send DSD streams and how it's over processing. Nonsense. I'm sending a PCM stream through the pre/pro and out to the ICBM. No processing, nada. So stop with all the attempts at confusing the issue by suggesting that my setup is doing things its not. The ICBM, by the way is a fine product and does an admirable job of filtering out low frequencies to the subs. And I typically use a decibel meter to figure out the output from all the speakers and they are pretty close in volume for my needs. But I'm sure that's not up to your standards, so FYI, I also had my installer friend run calibration tests when he set up the acoustic panels and bass traps. He used specialized software, different settings and all kinds of repetitive test patterns and he's confident it's pretty well calibrated. Of course he's a home installer by trade, so I guess he can't know as much as you, right?

See if you'd just bothered to read what I wrote more carefully, you'd have known that I'm outputting PCM straight to the ICBM and you could have saved me some time and aggravation having to repeat myself. Likewise, I don't know why you keep saying I'm not using acoustic panels and bass traps, because I am. So stop with the nonsense, it's pathetic to see you spin your wheels and go nowhere.

(Point #2: Your opinion is too focussed on sales figures)

Now your response to this one's a doozie. You waste another two paragraphs with insults and nonsense and only make a feeble retort in the last tiny paragraph:

VOD=$200 million dollars worth of business to the studios and cable companies in 2006, less than 2005.
Bluray and HD DVD= $4 billion dollars in player and software sales for the year between October 2006 and 2007. Sales figures are the only thing that a decision maker want to see. Is this too hard for you to grasp? While unit sales are only show a 5% share against the DVD market, it is a 26% share in terms of revenue.

Now, I really can't continue without calling you an asinine stupid mule. I mean really. I just got done saying that you base everything you know on sales figures. I showed that sales figures are not enough, with examples such as: the sale of current 1080p TVs saying nothing about what's in people's homes; and advertising-supported free VOD being a significant portion of the VOD total. And you come back with paid VOD figures. lil't, you only want to see what supports your own argument - we've been through this before. My examples are both very real and well supported, so don't ask me to provide examples if you won't consider them - and we've been there before, too. So I'll repeat this for everyone to read:

lil't is so focussed on sales figures that he completely ignores anything that does not have a price tag

So just so we're clear: your belief is that everything else from pirated content to ad-supported content, is inconsequential because it can't be measured through sales receipts. That's truly precious lil't - it's almost worth quoting, printing and framing. I'll even go further: your shortsightedness is the very reason why a couple of years from now, you'll be eating your own words about BR supplanting every other distribution method to become the dominant movie distribution medium. Sorry to bust your theory, but BR will always remain a niche product - that is my opinion, and I stand by it. Don't worry, I'll be right here in two years waiting for you to apologize.

(Point #3: Your contention that there is no music that uses bass below 40Hz)

It's cute how you start off with saying that, with the exception of every type of music that does go below 40Hz, you are right. Well, no sh*t Sherlock! Of course there is no acoustical instrument that goes lower, if you exclude those that do (like the organ). And speaking of organs, the one in Sydney's famous concert hall does indeed go down to 8Hz. See, you don't know everything. The fact is, I have quite a substantial collection of music, and not just organ music, that goes down well below 40Hz. I collect the stuff, so stop trying to convince yourself I'm out of my league when it comes to bass. For Pete's sake, stop trying to make a blanket statement that is so far from the truth you can't even defend it.

(Point #4: BR & HDDVD only make up 5% of the market - that makes BR just 3%)

Look, no amount of whining is going to change the fact that BR is just a measly 3% of the market. And trying to advance the theory that its growth is more impressive than the growth of 15 year old technologies is just nonsense. There are just too many factors that are different. No matter how many confusing factoids you can present trying to make the comparison stick, any sane reader will know that there are far more variables that are different now than 15 years ago. The comparison just can't be made. Stop it already, you're not getting anywhere with that - you're just spinning your wheels again.

(Point #5: Downloading didn't start 3-4 years ago (in 2004))

It's interesting that you base your petty retort on opinion studies done by Warner and Universal. How accurate is that? Kind of like your "impartial" knowledge about BR when you just happen to "work for a BR-only studio." The fact is, you don't know, I dont' know, nobody knows, what the impact of Napster had on CD sales. To say that concert DVDs had an impact whether true or not, still says nothing about what impact piracy had. The whole point about piracy is that it can't be figured into the equation because it cannot be quantified. It certainly doesn't have a neat little sales receipt you can hang your theories on. It is an estimate at best. What Warner and Universal were able to figure out was based on a sample pool of those individuals who were willing to discuss their legal and/or illegal activities. How reliable is that? And I'm sorry, there is no way to know if file sharing was at an all-time high in 2005, since we don't have comparable numbers for when Napster, Limewire, and eDonkey were all the rage. Just more FUD. You're still spinning and getting nowhere, lil't.

(Point #6: Microsoft's support of HDDVD is significant)

So Microsoft's pressure on Paramount, wasn't significant? I'd think it was. And just because Microsoft doesn't own a studio does not mean it does not have the means to buy one. And that is power, lil't. Wouldn't it just make you soil your diaper to read in tomorrow's paper that Microsoft had just bought Fox? It hasn't happened, but that's not because the company doesn't have the means.

Oh, and your contention that Microsoft is powerless outside it's core business, is nonsense. The company had no problem taking on Novell when it was only a "desktop" operating system. Then it had no problem destroying Lotus 123 with an inferior product called Excel. Then it had no problem becoming the dominant email/messaging platform and devastating Notes in the process. Just a software company? I seriously doubt that - their inroads in hardware have crippled Logitech. Their expansion into Web search and advertising is a direct threat to Google. And as far as putting pressure on companies, Microsoft had no problem kicking IBM in the teeth, then the largest hardware/software company in the world, over the MCA bus, token ring, and WinNT vs. OS/2.

Now Microsoft's support for HDDVD could be just for the sake of beating Sony down - who knows. But the fact is, they have not given up on HDDVD and it makes people wonder why. I'll tell you it makes investors wonder, and I do know that for a fact. It all goes a long way to give people pause about the future of BR. You may not agree with that statement, but that doesn't make it untrue. And I haven't even begun to talk about the cross-licensing agreements that Microsoft has with not just the movie studions but also all the hardware manufacturers that make receivers, TVs, disk players, computer chips. Microsoft's power in this arena is far more pervasive than Sony or Toshiba, by a wide margin.

No, I'm not overstating anything, trust me. And if you don't believe me, let's pick this point up again in two years, that is, if you still have the gall to hang out here.

(Point #7: Classe and Denon upcoming players)

OK, I can't hold this one in either: you arrogant stupid ignoramous. Yes, when I'm talking about HD I'm talking about BR and HDDVD. Geez, it's a pain in the *ss to type it all out for you, so just stick to it that when I say HD, I mean High Definition, not just HDDVD. I would have thought, from someone who relishes in using acronyms, sometimes his own invented ones, that this would be simple enough to follow. Well, I hope that will stop your petty hairsplitting over the statement I made about Denon's upcoming HD player.

Now onto Classe. Again, I have to let this out: you pig-headed mumb-skulled miscreant. I said I asked one of my friends who owns Classe to inquire. I didn't say he worked for the company so get off that already - you're fishing. Can't you read words? I asked him to ask Classe because as an owner with a serial number, he has an avenue for asking this. My thinking was that if I were to ask, I would not get the same level of response. He received an email back from Classe that said exactly what I quoted. This was from the sales department. Now what of that don't you understand? Are you just so desperate to find something to nitpick about that you have to split hairs over how I said it. I think most everyone else reading these posts understood that just fine.

So on that note, you're still just spinning in one spot and going nowhere fast. No traction, lil't, nothing. You haven't moved.

(Point #8: Confusion about the HDMI spec could very well be deterring sales)

I already said: I don't need to do a friggin study to prove this. It's common sense. If people don't know that they won't get screwed with a brick, or at the very least, last year's model, they are less likely to buy. That's just plain marketing.

But I figured that was not enough for an obsessive little nitwit like yourself, so I did a little survey of my own. I was at Best Buy today (the wife wanted a couple of DVDs), and I stood around by the BR and HDDVDs and asked people what they thought of their players. Well not only didn't anyone know what version of HDMI their players had, but they said that if they didn't have HDMI 1.3 they would be rather dissapointed. A few people said that they would sell their player and buy a new HDMI 1.3 compliant one. Now, mind you, this was all from people who had no clue about what each HDMI version supports - and these people all owned the players already! I didn't go to the players section and ask would-be buyers about it, but I can make a fair assumption that if existing owners (who had full access to the manuals) were confused, I'm pretty sure potential buyers would be too. And I'm also sure that if I would have hung out by the players and asked these questions I could have deterred just about everyone from buying a player, either player, with my questions (that is if I would not have been kicked out of the store).

Now I know that's not a conclusive survey for you, but if you're so sure about what you believe, why don't you go do the same? I bet you'll be sorely disappointed at what people tell you.

So before you go saying that you threw this all back at me, why don't you actually address the points. And try and do so without going off on tangents and using diversions to make weak arguments that really don't hold up. So far, nothing you have presented holds up to scrutiny. S let's try it again, OK, lil't?