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  1. #1
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    Hi all, new member here~

    Just going to introduce myself a little here.

    My name is Arthur and I am 23 and I have been playing the piano since I was 4 and played various instruments such as drums, flute, electric guitar and bass too. I know this is not a music forum but I just want to say that I know how instruments sound like and I know what kind of sound I am looking for. Few months ago for some reason, I just realize that I have been playing so much music, but never really sat down to enjoy music. I almost never read any audio and video magazines or anything like that. I do have some surround sound bundle system that came with my flat screen tv's. Those are crap ofcourse. i had to replace the speakers with my old school technics floor standing speakers because they sucked so much. So right now, I just play with EQ and make the best of whatever I have.

    So here is what I have planned out. I am going to go to some stores next week and just walk around and try out different setups. I plan on building a home theatre system that allows me to listen to stereo music, watch movies.

    I know how CD's are made and how much compression is used when a CD is made. So I am not trying to bring out the natural sound of the CD because everything is compressed like hell already. I want my system to give me some option of fiddling with EQ's.

    CD mixes always sound really FLAT, and one-dimensional to me. To me, tube amps tend to give more dimension to the mix when I listen to vocals and piano music. It also gives the tone more warmth imo. Maybe I don't know what I am talking about but thats what I hear. So I am going to start looking at tubes first rather than SS I am going for the pre amp/amp route ofcourse. So I am looking for a setup that gives me a lot of options to fiddle around with EQ.

    As for the CD player, I am going to need some help with this. I really don't know whats the difference between a cheap one vs an expensive one. My uncle sells a lot of high end audio gear, but he is pretty biased so thats why I need you guys to help me heh.

    Speakers is probably going to be just as hard in choosing the amps because I have to try them paired with the amps at the same time. Or else I am really playing with luck here.

    As for SUBS, all I am asking for is accurate response time and smooth.

    So as for the sound I am looking for. I am looking for warmth, and dimension. I want feel as close to the music as I can if that makes any sense. I know how the music sound largely depend of the final mix of the CD, but I want to achieve that "live sound." When I close my eyes, I DON'T want to know that the music is coming out of speakers.

    also, if i want to hook up additional speakers for a 5.1 setup, what do I need?


    as for budget. I think around $14000 CAD. I am pretty flexible as long as it is worth it. Again, I am a noob when it comes to audio gear.

    EDIT- i listen to, pop, pop rock, classical, metal, death metal. the room is just a regular living room with wooden tile floor. walls are dry wall. i live in Canada so everything is made out of wood. haha

    this system ofcourse will be hooked up to the TV. I also have computer and PS3 hooked up to it too.


    thanks guys.
    Last edited by Chamai; 10-20-2009 at 02:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    How are you doin?

    Welcome aboard. I'm sure your questions will be answered, in time, by some of the more savvy denizens round here. I hope you find all the information you desire and have some fun too.

    Da Worfster

  3. #3
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Thats a great budget you have there and you will have lots of options. If you are worried about compression of music on CD's, I would strongly consider going with an SACD player. Like one of these Marantz players- http://us.marantz.com/Products/616.asp Or one of the Ayre players http://www.ayre.com/products.cfm What type of music do you like to listen too?

    For that live sound, I would consider looking at the Magnepan MG 3.6 speakers if you have the room. http://www.magnepan.com/model_MG_36

    Other speakers I really like like are Thiels http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site.../CS2.4se.shtml

    PSB Synchrony one's made in canada- http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/.../Synchrony-One

    Acouple of other speakers to consider are Dynaudio and Salk's.


    For an amp and preamp, I would consider these companies- Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, Ayre, McIntosh, Krell. I would consider going with a Vacuum tube set up for a warmer richer sound.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  4. #4
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Sorry, I didn't realize that your looking for 5.1ch. Here's an amp to consider- http://www.parasound.com/halo/a51.php I have the 2ch version and its a great amp.

    For a nice sounding sub, i would recommend these subs-
    http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/prod_b3.htm

    http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/prod_r305.htm

    http://www.velodyne.com/products/pro...4&sid=994y488g

    http://www.velodyne.com/products/pro...7&sid=994y488g

    http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speake.../grotto_i.html

    As far as a 5.1ch preamp, I'll leave that to someone else.

    However, you may want to consider doing a 2ch system with a preamp that has a home theater bypass.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    Welcome aboard. I'm sure your questions will be answered, in time, by some of the more savvy denizens round here. I hope you find all the information you desire and have some fun too.

    Da Worfster
    thanks for the warm welcome!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Thats a great budget you have there and you will have lots of options. If you are worried about compression of music on CD's, I would strongly consider going with an SACD player. Like one of these Marantz players- http://us.marantz.com/Products/616.asp Or one of the Ayre players http://www.ayre.com/products.cfm What type of music do you like to listen too?

    For that live sound, I would consider looking at the Magnepan MG 3.6 speakers if you have the room. http://www.magnepan.com/model_MG_36

    Other speakers I really like like are Thiels http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site.../CS2.4se.shtml

    PSB Synchrony one's made in canada- http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/.../Synchrony-One

    Acouple of other speakers to consider are Dynaudio and Salk's.


    For an amp and preamp, I would consider these companies- Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, Ayre, McIntosh, Krell. I would consider going with a Vacuum tube set up for a warmer richer sound.
    i listen to, pop, pop rock, classical, heavy metal and death metal. no jazz though~ nth against jazz.

    the first brand i plan to check out is Mcintosh. honestly i have never had the oppertunity to listen to their products before. the appearance of Mcintosh just catches my eyes for some reason.

    so here is the question. let say i have now purchased a pre amp/amp that supports HT bypass and i plan on adding 3 more speakers right now. are there any extra components i need to buy besides the 3 speakers?

    i just want the tube sound~ but have 5.1 when i need to.

  7. #7
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Welcome to AR. If you want suggestions and opinions you need to give more information about what you listen to and the room you will be using. Be wary. You are going to get lots of different opinions about everything.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Welcome to AR. If you want suggestions and opinions you need to give more information about what you listen to and the room you will be using. Be wary. You are going to get lots of different opinions about everything.
    thanks!
    i am open up for any suggestions. i don't have much knowledge of hooking up electronics and i am not familiar with many audio terms too. i was just checking out the Mcintosh website and i see pictures of a bi amping and stuff. i really have no idea how most things work. all i have ever been exposed to are 2 ch stereo setups and recievers. anything fancier than that, i am clueless.

    again, i listen to, pop, pop rock, classical, metal, death metal.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    The best advice I can give you is to keep it simple (forget about biamping for now) and go and listen to equipment at high end audio stores with the type of music you listen to most. Make sure its well recorded. You may have trouble with metal and death metal as it is poorly recorded for the most part. Mcintosh is good equipment and has that eye candy appeal but there are a lot of better brands out there. I like Audio Research, Ayre and Conrad Johnson. I just wish I could afford those brands. I would strongly suggest you consider an SACD player if you listen to a lot of Classical music. Give a listen to the PSB Synchrony One's as it they should do well with your varied taste in music. Dynaudio would be a good fit for your tastes as well. Take a look at these Salk speakers. They sound great with tremendous bass, clarity and detail- http://www.salksound.com/speakers_veracity_ht3.shtml -They are some of the best speakers I have heard. Here are some reviews on them- http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...7_1594crx.aspx The Magnepans will give you that live sound but really are not the best for hard rock. They excel at Classical, acoustic, jazz and vocal type music. They are a very revealing speaker and will really expose poorly recorded music.

    With a budget of $14K, I would spend about $4-6K on speakers, $3k on an SACDP/CDP and the the rest on an amp and preamp.
    Last edited by blackraven; 10-20-2009 at 03:57 PM.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  10. #10
    Forum Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    The best advice I can give you is to keep it simple (forget about biamping for now) and go and listen to equipment at high end audio stores with the type of music you listen to most. Make sure its well recorded. You may have trouble with metal and death metal as it is poorly recorded for the most part. Mcintosh is good equipment and has that eye candy appeal but there are a lot of better brands out there. I like Audio Research, Ayre and Conrad Johnson. I just wish I could afford those brands. I would strongly suggest you consider an SACD player if you listen to a lot of Classical music. Give a listen to the PSB Synchrony One's as it they should do well with your varied taste in music. Dynaudio would be a good fit for your tastes as well. Take a look at these Salk speakers. They sound great with tremendous bass, clarity and detail- http://www.salksound.com/speakers_veracity_ht3.shtml -They are some of the best speakers I have heard. Here are some reviews on them- http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...7_1594crx.aspx The Magnepans will give you that live sound but really are not the best for hard rock. They excel at Classical, acoustic, jazz and vocal type music. They are a very revealing speaker and will really expose poorly recorded music.

    With a budget of $14K, I would spend about $4-6K on speakers, $3k on an SACDP/CDP and the the rest on an amp and preamp.
    i will def check out the SACD. as for price, i am not gonna look at the price tag when i try the speakers just so i won't think the more it cost, the better it is. i just want the right sound for me. but i will def check the brands you suggested if my local stores have them. and i agree with you. most death metal and metal recording is crap. i really listen to a lot of pop and pop rock most of the time. classical is not something i always listen to, but i still do.

    i guess i will buy a 2nd pair of speakers some day. it is the same for guitar as well. different amps work for different types of music.

    thanks for the advice.

  11. #11
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    i was wondering, since i am getting a tube pre amp, i was suggested using vaccume tubes for the power amp as well. what effects and differences will i get when i am using a solid state power amp+ tube preamp.

    and also, what do you guys use for power conditioning and voltage regulators.
    thanks!
    Last edited by Chamai; 10-21-2009 at 02:19 AM.

  12. #12
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    Hey Arthur.

    Since you said you are open to suggestions I thought I'd throw a couple of points out there and see what you and the rest of the gang think about them.

    1. I find my home theater sound quality requirements to be well below those of my music reproduction requirement. And until we get a lot availability of audio material on Blu Ray format, the requirements of the two systems do not always call for the same things. Hence, many people including myself have chosen to separate the Home theater system from the pure 2 channel audio systems in their homes. I think that for me an inexpensive home theater system is just fine, whereas an inexpensive 2 channel audio system will no longer do.

    2. Equalizers - I've found in the past, that for me equalizers have tended to mask the inherent problems of either my system or my setup. Thereby, preventing me from addressing the real issue and covering it up, and not particularly well, with somewhat distorted image of the music. Of course, this may have just been my experience, or my equipment or something else relevant only to me. But I thought I'd pass it along so you can be on the look out for it.

    Enjoy your search, and when you have time go through some of the older threads on this board as there's a wealth of great info there.

    Rudy

  13. #13
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    I can only second blackraven: "The best advice I can give you is to keep it simple (forget about biamping for now) and go and listen to equipment at high end audio stores with the type of music you listen to most. Make sure its well recorded."

    Take good recordings you know well, go different stores (with friends, if they're willing), and listen critically to as many different setups (as opposed to many similar setups) as you're willing to do. Figure out what you get for different amounts of money, and figure out what suits you best. Be critical. Listen. Ignore marketing, sales talks, and try to free yourself from any preconceived ideas you might have (tube vs. silicon, small vs. large speakers, cables, *anything* really).

    You indicate a number of times that you don't know so much, and that you have $14000 CAD to spend. That's a serious amount of money, and there are (regrettably) very many audio places that will be more than happy to extract that kind of money from you while selling you snake oil, a good feeling, marketing blah, etc. Worst is, they may believe some of their crap themselves. I hate to say it, but be *very* *very* wary.

    Ask your friends if they could act as a second level of reality check. One of my friends couldn't hear the differences between systems unless they were really big, but she helped a lot by arranging blind test for me. She would plug in amps/speakers, without telling me which, and I had to tell by sound alone. Huge eye-opener. Friends like that are invaluable. I can only recommend this approach. Don't buy somewhere they won't allow you to do this.

    Also, determine the increase in performance vs. the increase in price at different price points. Remember that a good system alone is not enough, you also want a great collection of recordings. I used part of my budget for expanding my music collection, and in retrospect, I think that was a very good decision.

    Good luck! Be critical, put in effort, and I'm sure you'll find an excellent system that will give you many years of great music experience. Enjoy! :-)

    Kind regards,
    Erik

  14. #14
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    hey guys~ thanks for the suggestions.
    i will never let the sales guy know my budget. and before i go to the store, i will make sure i have enough knowledge before i go.

    again, what do you guys do for voltage management and power conditioning?

  15. #15
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    Hello

    CDP...well stay away from the NAD 545!...its
    got some glitches...

    I recently purchased a Musical Fidelity X-Ray with the XXX-PSU from http://www.audioadvisor.com/ $799.00 plus shipping. I really enjoy this player.

    If your budget can afford it check out CDP's from Lektor on
    http://www.positive-feedback.com/

    Lector Audio CDP-7T CD player PFO Issue 32
    Lector Audio CDP-06t tubed CD player PFO Issue 34

    Speakers: Mordaunt-Short

    Reviews on the M.S. can be read
    at http://www.mordauntshort.com/default.php


    I am not familiar with vacuum tube H.T. amps or EQ's or really can't recommend a particular Sub....others here on this forum will surely help you out with that bit of info.

    Happy shopping..

    LeRoy

  16. #16
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Don't spend more than $100 on a surge suppressor. I use a Cyber Power 1030HT.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  17. #17
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamai
    i was wondering, since i am getting a tube pre amp, i was suggested using vaccume tubes for the power amp as well. what effects and differences will i get when i am using a solid state power amp+ tube preamp.

    and also, what do you guys use for power conditioning and voltage regulators.
    thanks!
    I use a hybrid preamp and both tube and SS amps. Tube amps drive my main speakers. SS is for my subs. I would suggest getting a working system together before thinking about bi-amping. Tube power amps of equivilent power as SS are much more expensive. A tube pre with SS power can work very well. The earlier the tubes are in the system the more benefit you will get from "tube" sound.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  18. #18
    RGA
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    Welcome my fellow Canadian to the world of forum advice - Eesh - you'll find it endless varied and for everyone who will recommend one speaker or amp someone else will recommend something completely different.

    I would suggest you completely ignore every name that will be thrown at you for the time being. Your uncle is a high end dealer then if you trust your uncle go and listen to what he sells.

    McIntosh is a solid choice but don't get too caught up with the looks over the sound. I know several people who swear by MAC amps and won't have anything else - I know just as many if not more that despise the sound. If you want sex appeal there is plenty of it out there.

    I would make some observations - first you like the sound of tubes over SS - so do I. Don't count out all SS though or even digital designs which have improved immensely.

    Still tubes have a certain magic. You need to consider with speakers is if it can do the job with what you want and how loud you want to play. Magnepan with death metal is a very bad move IMO. The speakers simply don't play loud enough or with any sort of real impact in bass region where drums live.

    The trick then is finding a good Horn or HE speaker that can hit hard but at the same time be delicate enough to handle your softer musical preferences without become shouty or overbearing. You have to decide what speaker you like at the outset because that will determine what amp/source will be a good fit.

    I will make one suggestion because they're a Canadian Company quite new to the audiophile scene but offer a tremendous amount of front end choices with regards to tube amplifiers. Because they are rebranding the top Chinese brands under their own nameplate the price performance ratio tends to be very high indeed. The company is Grant Fidelity - http://grantfidelity.com/site/catalog

    Why suggest them - because as much as $14k may seem a lot - it can be spent up real fast. And generally I found GF gear to hit way above its weight class. Take the Rita 880 at $4200 this is a speaker that will drive practically everything - clocks in at a massive 100+ pounds (shipped in a crate not a box) and looks great, built as well as a top Krell and more to the point has the sonic chops to negotiate any music very well and is of course tubed. I'm not suggesting this amp over the rest of the amps out there - but what I am saying is that with $14k you want to buy the best loudspeaker you can possibly afford while getting top flight sound from your sources. Something like the Rita with a good source or two leaves tons left over for quality loudspeakers.

    I can also say their Shengya Monoblocks are built about as well as amplifiers can be built and they sound very darn good. I don't like most stuff out of Canada - so I am happy to say that finally I really really do.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    RGA, while I agree that Magnepans are a poor choice for hard rock and Chamai, they do play plenty loud and clear with the proper amp and power. I can play my 1.6's to crystal clear ear bleeding levels with 400wpc and 750watts of dynamic power. And the MG 20's do very well in the bass department. The 1.6's and 3.6's don't do too bad either when matched with the right amp, preamp and CDP.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  20. #20
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I don't like most stuff out of Canada - so I am happy to say that finally I really really do.

    But as you already mentioned, it's really from China. These guys are Canadian in name and location only. Check Ebay and you will find about half of what Grant sells, with a Chinese badge, at half the price. I am Canadian and pride is the last thing I feel about Grant.

    I was quite excited about their tube DAC-09, screaming their praises until the Rev. harley made this whopping discovery. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    However, it IS great stuff and a good price. You couldn't be more correct about that.

    Anyhow happy hunting OP!! 14 G's is a great budget and I must admit I am completely jealous. These days I have about $14.00 to spend on gear. I hope you find the sound you're looking for bro. Lot's of good help on AR.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Welcome my fellow Canadian to the world of forum advice - Eesh - you'll find it endless varied and for everyone who will recommend one speaker or amp someone else will recommend something completely different.

    I would suggest you completely ignore every name that will be thrown at you for the time being. Your uncle is a high end dealer then if you trust your uncle go and listen to what he sells.

    McIntosh is a solid choice but don't get too caught up with the looks over the sound. I know several people who swear by MAC amps and won't have anything else - I know just as many if not more that despise the sound. If you want sex appeal there is plenty of it out there.

    I would make some observations - first you like the sound of tubes over SS - so do I. Don't count out all SS though or even digital designs which have improved immensely.

    Still tubes have a certain magic. You need to consider with speakers is if it can do the job with what you want and how loud you want to play. Magnepan with death metal is a very bad move IMO. The speakers simply don't play loud enough or with any sort of real impact in bass region where drums live.

    The trick then is finding a good Horn or HE speaker that can hit hard but at the same time be delicate enough to handle your softer musical preferences without become shouty or overbearing. You have to decide what speaker you like at the outset because that will determine what amp/source will be a good fit.

    I will make one suggestion because they're a Canadian Company quite new to the audiophile scene but offer a tremendous amount of front end choices with regards to tube amplifiers. Because they are rebranding the top Chinese brands under their own nameplate the price performance ratio tends to be very high indeed. The company is Grant Fidelity - http://grantfidelity.com/site/catalog

    Why suggest them - because as much as $14k may seem a lot - it can be spent up real fast. And generally I found GF gear to hit way above its weight class. Take the Rita 880 at $4200 this is a speaker that will drive practically everything - clocks in at a massive 100+ pounds (shipped in a crate not a box) and looks great, built as well as a top Krell and more to the point has the sonic chops to negotiate any music very well and is of course tubed. I'm not suggesting this amp over the rest of the amps out there - but what I am saying is that with $14k you want to buy the best loudspeaker you can possibly afford while getting top flight sound from your sources. Something like the Rita with a good source or two leaves tons left over for quality loudspeakers.

    I can also say their Shengya Monoblocks are built about as well as amplifiers can be built and they sound very darn good. I don't like most stuff out of Canada - so I am happy to say that finally I really really do.
    thanks for the input~

    as for the brands. honestly, i don't know much brands. i plan on going to the store next week. i will try out as much things as i could. narrow down a few setups that i like, and i will report back to you guys heh.
    Last edited by Chamai; 10-22-2009 at 02:25 AM.

  22. #22
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    as for SACD's. i decide not to go for it because simply i don't have any sacd's. most of my cd's are japanese pop and others are metal. and i did check out the list of artists who actually have released sacd's. there is nothing i probably will care about anyways. as for the cd player, i will probably just pick up an Arcam or Densen. i just remembered the subs that i heard @ my uncle's place are TRIAD gold series i think. so i am going to pick one up for sure. i will decide on the size once i go to the store.

  23. #23
    RGA
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    poppachubby

    Yes there was a thread about this already. Grant Fidelity isn't hiding from this. There are several companies in fact that sell the exact same Tube DAC/09 under several labels - I've already seen 4 different company names for this piece of equipment.

    Grant Fidelity, like I mentioned, is re-branding Chinese products under their own label. They have bought exclusive rights to the products which means units like the one you linked will disappear once they've been sold off.

    The second issue is that Grant Fidelity is charging a fair bit more right now at $300 for the same units. However unlike the mail order from China units you actually get a warranty and support. And the actual sound of the unit is quite impressive does a pile of stuff and for $150 or $300 is quite excellent. It's not going to scare high end products but I can say it is a pretty impressive step up in most ways over my Cambridge Audio CD 6 (which was their top CD player in the late 1990's). Factor in that it's also a USB DAC and works as both a Solid State and Tube DAC and is also a full out tube or SS headphone amp and it is built quite well - it's really hard to complain.

    Certainly you lose a bit of pride of ownership in that there could be a dozen clones out there and when you see the price of those you think gee if it's $150 it can't be any good. Me I'm surprised how much sound is on tap for this kind of money.

    If you remember about 10 years ago, Antique Sound Labs - also a Chinese tube maker - put out $99 Wave 8 monoblocks (8 watts of class b tube power) and they were all the rage. This is basically the DAC/Preamp/Headphone amp version of the Wave 8's.

    Basically what Grant Fidelity is trying to do is corner the Chinese high end market by making deals with their top manufacturers - Shegya, Consonance, Jungson. These companies have been making OEM products in North America for many years. Shengya has been operating under the Vincent label and Jungson apparently has been an OEM for a number of companies.

    I think the DAC 09 from GF could have been handled a bit better in that what they should have done if nothing else was to make their product be differentiated enough from the other makers. But new companies make some stumbles. Indeed their stumble was being honest about what they were selling.

    With the OP's budget I would not be recommending the DAC 09 anyway. The Jungson made Rita 880 is tough to beat regardless of the made in China stigma.

    It should be pointed out that many brands are made in China - they just don't advertise it. A lot of the British imports are made in China and bigger name speaker companies like Energy are made in China. Then there are all the companies who use parts made in China but just happen to build the thing on domestic shores. Not unlike buy an HP or Apple laptop - not a single part is actually made by HP or Apple

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    poppachubby

    Yes there was a thread about this already. Grant Fidelity isn't hiding from this. There are several companies in fact that sell the exact same Tube DAC/09 under several labels - I've already seen 4 different company names for this piece of equipment.

    Grant Fidelity, like I mentioned, is re-branding Chinese products under their own label. They have bought exclusive rights to the products which means units like the one you linked will disappear once they've been sold off.

    The second issue is that Grant Fidelity is charging a fair bit more right now at $300 for the same units. However unlike the mail order from China units you actually get a warranty and support. And the actual sound of the unit is quite impressive does a pile of stuff and for $150 or $300 is quite excellent. It's not going to scare high end products but I can say it is a pretty impressive step up in most ways over my Cambridge Audio CD 6 (which was their top CD player in the late 1990's). Factor in that it's also a USB DAC and works as both a Solid State and Tube DAC and is also a full out tube or SS headphone amp and it is built quite well - it's really hard to complain.

    Certainly you lose a bit of pride of ownership in that there could be a dozen clones out there and when you see the price of those you think gee if it's $150 it can't be any good. Me I'm surprised how much sound is on tap for this kind of money.

    If you remember about 10 years ago, Antique Sound Labs - also a Chinese tube maker - put out $99 Wave 8 monoblocks (8 watts of class b tube power) and they were all the rage. This is basically the DAC/Preamp/Headphone amp version of the Wave 8's.

    Basically what Grant Fidelity is trying to do is corner the Chinese high end market by making deals with their top manufacturers - Shegya, Consonance, Jungson. These companies have been making OEM products in North America for many years. Shengya has been operating under the Vincent label and Jungson apparently has been an OEM for a number of companies.

    I think the DAC 09 from GF could have been handled a bit better in that what they should have done if nothing else was to make their product be differentiated enough from the other makers. But new companies make some stumbles. Indeed their stumble was being honest about what they were selling.

    With the OP's budget I would not be recommending the DAC 09 anyway. The Jungson made Rita 880 is tough to beat regardless of the made in China stigma.

    It should be pointed out that many brands are made in China - they just don't advertise it. A lot of the British imports are made in China and bigger name speaker companies like Energy are made in China. Then there are all the companies who use parts made in China but just happen to build the thing on domestic shores. Not unlike buy an HP or Apple laptop - not a single part is actually made by HP or Apple
    I agree with you. Since you seem to have good knowledge on this subject, I have a question. On the Grant site, they won't discuss any details about one of the chips in the dac 09. However, on Ebay the seller gives full details about all. Do you suppose Grant puts different, possibly more high end, materials into theirs?

    You are right, the difference is obviously support. I actually plan on buying one. It just seemed from your statement that you might not have been aware. No argumments here...

  25. #25
    RGA
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    I lived in China for a year and they copy everything they think they can sell. There are no laws - well there may be laws bit no one pays attention.

    I went to an outdoor market and they have copies of DVD movies for sale for 10 yuan which is about $2 - you can talk them down to $1 a disc. Copying DVD's is illegal as you know. But I picked up a season of Dexter for $2 - the complete BattleStar Galactica series for $5, Complete Frasier series for $10 and movies that were sent to film critics before they ever reached movie theaters for $1.

    And this with a policeman standing not 15 feet from the booths. Now apparently Americans who buy these and go back to the States could get in serious troubles with the authorities - so it's lucky to be Canadian where no such law exists.

    This applies to stereo equipment and cars - it's rampant. There is the Hi-Phone which is a dirt cheap copy of the Iphone - so popular was the face Hi-Phone that other companies started to copy the copy - which I found very amusing.

    There are fake Nike's, North Face, and Gucci's galore - I bought a Gucci wallet for $5 and it's real leather and looks exactly the same as the real one. A fellow travellor bought 15 North Face Jackets for $10 a piece to give away to friends when he got back. They're not quite as nice - but they look exactly the same.

    The issue of the DAC chip to me is something GF should not have bothered discussing. It makes something that could be interpreted several ways. I just don't know why Ian bothered putting it on the site without a clearer explanation. I think it suggests that they don't want copy cats to be able to copy the specific DAC chip being used. Perhaps that was to separate it from the clones out there. But really how do you know the clones are not usuing the same chips - the clones are also made in the same factory is my understanding - made by a company with a non friendly for north Americans to pronounce.

    Rachel of Grant Fidelity addressed the issue as follows - Note English isn't her first language

    "I would like to contribute some facts on the various version of the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09 and some discussion raised around it. Hopefully it will help confused readers to get closer to the truth rather than guessing:

    1) Maverick Audio is based out of Shanghai, China and is run by an individual. Maverick DAC is designed and manufactured by Xiangsheng out of China.
    2) Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09 is also manufactured by Xiangsheng - we choose to distribute under Grant Fidelity brand as Xiangsheng is not a common English word for branding. Xiangsheng is following our quality control request in fulfill Grant Fidelity DAC orders.
    3) Grant Fidelity and Xiangsheng has reached agreement to be the sole distributor of Xiangsheng DAC product in Canada and USA.
    4) Maverick Audio has sold their existing stock DAC back to Xiangsheng and those stock will be re-printed for Grant Fidelity. Maverick Audio will no longer sell the DAC product to North America nor other international market after November.
    5) Grant Fidelity's coming DAC shipment will have both silver and black faceplate for customers to choose from.
    6) Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09 MSRP US$390 is priced with consideration to allow audio retail stores to carry the product and allow consumers to 'touch, see and listen' to the product in-store before making a purchase
    7) Before retail network is set up for the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09, it will be on special price of $300 including free shipping in Canada and continuous USA - this will benefit internet shoppers who do not request a must-have audition before making purchase
    8.) Xiangsheng has confirmed to Grant Fidelity that Pacific Valve doesn't have any Xiangsheng DAC product in stock. Xiangsheng has never sold any DAC product to Pacific Valve and will not recognize Pacific Valve's sale as authorized resale so no manufacturer warranty will be provided.
    9) Many eBay sellers (out of China or Hong Kong) list a product for sale but has no stock of the product at all. Be aware of low priced eBay listings out of China or Hong Kong. When they get a sale on eBay, they will purchase one on Chinese market to fulfill the order. This practice is against eBay policy but still prevail in Asia. If the seller cannot spot a unit upon receiving a buyer's money, there is high chance that a buyer will be left without delivery for a long time. Grant Fidelity recently received a customer's email about an eBay seller with 100% positive feedback scammed him $700 on a Grant Fidelity brand tube amp (retail for $1900) but never deliver and disappeared off eBay. Be cautious when purchasing from sellers in Asia - 100% feedback doesn't mean it's a safe transaction all the time.

    Grant Fidelity will continue service Canadian and USA customers with high quality products along with top level service.

    If you have further questions on the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09, please feel free to contact us through http://www.grantfidelity.com or call us at our toll free number. We will be more than happy to help you with any questions you may have related to our product.

    Thank you.
    Rachel - Grant Fidelity

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