emaidel was right about the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses

[3db]

Its called distortion spectra. While THD is an utterly useless and misleading metric, a deeper analysis into the makeup of the distortion provides the clue. 1% second harmonic distortion is virtually inaudible while 0.1% fifth or seventh is quite noticeable. Amplifier designs vary greatly in how they distort.

Nelson Pass speaks on the topic here.

rw

a measureable quantatative factor. Even order distortion would be harder to detect because its pleasant.....thats what gives vinyl that warmer sound,,,, odd order distortion is grating and easier to detect which would make explain your numbers.

[E-Stat]

a measureable quantatative factor.

Quantitative yes, but difficult to directly correlate to perceived differences. Which is why amps sound different under dynamic conditions, i.e. playing music instead of test tones.

Even order distortion would be harder to detect because its pleasant.....thats what gives vinyl that warmer sound...

Interesting. I've never heard that association before. Why do you say pressed vinyl inherently contains even order distortion?

,,, odd order distortion is grating and easier to detect which would make explain your numbers.

I had one of these Crown amps when I was in high school. While it was reliable, it sounded dreadful on top despite its 0.05% measured THD / IMD. Which is why I completely ignore distortion specs. In fact, my listening experience causes me to associate those numbers in reverse. Amps with exceptionally low distortion figures sound worse than those with higher numbers. Clearly, they have more stages and/or more feedback loops which either renders them hard and thin sounding (like the Crown) or unnaturally sterile (Halcro DM-38).

rw

[3db]

Interesting. I've never heard that association before. Why do you say pressed vinyl inherently contains even order distortion?

rw

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/.../t-449315.html

[E-Stat]

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/.../t-449315.html

Interesting. Not bad, but the next question would be what amplifier was used for the cutting lathe as that could affect the results. Such information was not provided. Coincidentally, Telarc Records used the big brother to my Threshold Stasis back in the 80s.

Bob Woods at cutter

rw

[3db]

Quantitative yes, but difficult to directly correlate to perceived differences. Which is why amps sound different under dynamic conditions, i.e. playing music instead of test tones.

I had one of these Crown amps when I was in high school. While it was reliable, it sounded dreadful on top despite its 0.05% measured THD / IMD. Which is why I completely ignore distortion specs. In fact, my listening experience causes me to associate those numbers in reverse. Amps with exceptionally low distortion figures sound worse than those with higher numbers. Clearly, they have more stages and/or more feedback loops which either renders them hard and thin sounding (like the Crown) or unnaturally sterile (Halcro DM-38).

rw

I ignore distrotion specs once they fall below audbale detection for humans. I see no value in this magic race of .00000000000000000000005% distortion ( exageration I know) if it can't be heard below .5%

[E-Stat]

I ignore distrotion specs once they fall below audbale detection for humans... if it can't be heard below .5%

That's my point. Upper odd harmonic distortion can be audible at the 0.1% level. Amplifier THD specs provide zero visibility to the way the amplifier performs under dynamic conditions where the amp generates the distortion. The Crown's 0.05% figure had no bearing on real world performance with its crude, first generation Fairchild op amp and class B output stage.

rw

[hifitommy]

feet have been stomped too much and i will do this out of disrespect of the acting up by a couple of the posters here.

THEN i am going to post positive comments on the fuses REGARDLESS of what they sound like!

;^)

[3db]

feet have been stomped too much and i will do this out of disrespect of the acting up by a couple of the posters here.

THEN i am going to post positive comments on the fuses REGARDLESS of what they sound like!

;^)

you go girl!!! )

[bfalls]

Quantitative yes, but difficult to directly correlate to perceived differences. Which is why amps sound different under dynamic conditions, i.e. playing music instead of test tones.


Interesting. I've never heard that association before. Why do you say pressed vinyl inherently contains even order distortion?


I had one of these Crown amps when I was in high school. While it was reliable, it sounded dreadful on top despite its 0.05% measured THD / IMD. Which is why I completely ignore distortion specs. In fact, my listening experience causes me to associate those numbers in reverse. Amps with exceptionally low distortion figures sound worse than those with higher numbers. Clearly, they have more stages and/or more feedback loops which either renders them hard and thin sounding (like the Crown) or unnaturally sterile (Halcro DM-38).

rw

In our QA and A/B room at CBS Records we used Crown DC300 and DC150 as well as McIntosh amps. I thought the Mcs with higher distortion readings sounded much better than the Crowns. It didn't matter which source, 1" master tapes on Scully playback deck or 1/4" on Nakamichi cassette decks. We used several different models Mc2125s, 5150s, etc. They even used Mc40s to drive their plant intercom system. I still have a pair of the MC40s. I believe their THD is .5%.

[E-Stat]

I thought the Mcs with higher distortion readings sounded much better than the Crowns.

Yeah, that was back in the 70s when the prevailing notion espoused by guys like Julian Hirsch was that if two amps had similar output, frequency response curves, distortion and were able to drive a given load, they would all sound the same.

I confess that I bought the Crown because it looked cool, had rack ears, was endorsed by pros and had more power than the H-K Citation 12 amp I was also considering. So I was 17 at the time. I got rid of it in under a year. After a short stint using powered monitors, my next amp was the considerably better sounding Audire by Julius Siknius. That was also the era ('76) when Frank Van Alstine was experimenting with beefing up power supplies. I had his FET-5 preamp (modified PAT-5) and applied the same concept to the Audire that he did to the Dynaco "Double 400". I added another 120,000 uF to the power supply via an external box and replaced the bridge with a 30A unit. That bumped it to ~100 joules or about five times that of the Crown. There was no comparison in terms of transparency and dynamic capability - even though the specs were essentially the same. It would also play for about thirty seconds after power off!

rw