emaidel was right about the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses

[hifitommy]

i dont particularly care whether YOU want to use a product or not. IF i try a wire (ferinstance) or a fuse, and i hear a difference that i like, i will probably use it provided it isnt prohibitively priced. i wont be seeking your approval of such. nor will i heed any of your caveats.

i respect floyd toole but i dont worship ANYBODY. DBTs are not easy to implement properly and i seriously doubt that you do them for all purchases. just finding willing participants, the proper equipment and then carrying out the right procedures is a monumental task.

i have a fair amount of experience at this hobby and i have learned much by keeping my mouth shut and listening. i have also learned a lot by listening for myself rather than relying on reviewers to tell me what to buy.

if and when i get around to trying the fuses, i will share my findings. i wont however, drum on people to use them or not to use them.

[JohnMichael]

i dont particularly care whether YOU want to use a product or not. IF i try a wire (ferinstance) or a fuse, and i hear a difference that i like, i will probably use it provided it isnt prohibitively priced. i wont be seeking your approval of such. nor will i heed any of your caveats.

i respect floyd toole but i dont worship ANYBODY. DBTs are not easy to implement properly and i seriously doubt that you do them for all purchases. just finding willing participants, the proper equipment and then carrying out the right procedures is a monumental task.

i have a fair amount of experience at this hobby and i have learned much by keeping my mouth shut and listening. i have also learned a lot by listening for myself rather than relying on reviewers to tell me what to buy.

if and when i get around to trying the fuses, i will share my findings. i wont however, drum on people to use them or not to use them.

Great post Tommy, I like your thinking. Same goes for E-Stat and Emaidel. Anything that makes my listening more enjoyable I am all for regardless of science. Music is an art and to enjoy art does not require science as much as contributions from another artist. Many designing audio today I consider an artist. Let us DBT that Monet.

[JoeE SP9]

This is the only hobby I'm aware of that has a large number of sourpuss spoilsports. They spend an enormous amount of time telling others what they can and can't hear. They also feel they have a right to play traffic cop with someone elses wallet. Their standard answer to anything they don't approve of is disbelief, derision and outright insults. They almost never try any of the tweaks or gadgets they disapprove of. They just loudly call for DBT's while simultaneously admonishing others for spending their own money. Investigating any tweak on their own is never attempted.

Personally I'd be more apt to listen to someone who actually tried a tweak and reported they heard no difference. Telling me and others we are not hearing what we report without trying it yourself gives you no credibility.

Hey, all you spoilsport sourpusses, put a sock in it. If you have nothing productive to add to a discussion keep your fingers to yourself.

[JohnMichael]

Yes what JoeE SP9 has said.

[3db]

Well you know the old expression, a fool and his money is easily parted. Instead of waisting money on such nonsense, put into the the upgrade of gear or room acoustics. The single biggest player in sound next to the speakers are room acoustics. Treating the room would have a much further reaching affect.

If I could do a proper DBT test I would. Last year at this time I exchanged out a Technics DX940 receiever for a Yamaha RX-V1800 and I thought I heard tighter bass and a more open soundstage. But the problem is, it took me 3 hours to exchange the receivers and any audio memory accurcay is shot in an around the 2 minute mark. What I would have loved was to be able to the DBT test to see if I actually heard a difference or just perceived to hear one. The only difference I do notice without a DBT test is that the Yamaha can keep on going in power levels where the Technics was running out of gas. This was observed through a Radio Shack SPL meter and I took note of the readings. Other than that, I don't trust my hearing becuase I also hear with my eyes and the RX-V1800 is beautiful sight in my mind.

[JoeE SP9]

Well you know the old expression, a fool and his money is easily parted. Instead of waisting money on such nonsense, put into the the upgrade of gear or room acoustics. The single biggest player in sound next to the speakers are room acoustics. Treating the room would have a much further reaching affect.

If I could do a proper DBT test I would. Last year at this time I exchanged out a Technics DX940 receiever for a Yamaha RX-V1800 and I thought I heard tighter bass and a more open soundstage. But the problem is, it took me 3 hours to exchange the receivers and any audio memory accurcay is shot in an around the 2 minute mark. What I would have loved was to be able to the DBT test to see if I actually heard a difference or just perceived to hear one. The only difference I do notice without a DBT test is that the Yamaha can keep on going in power levels where the Technics was running out of gas. This was observed through a Radio Shack SPL meter and I took note of the readings. Other than that, I don't trust my hearing becuase I also hear with my eyes and the RX-V1800 is beautiful sight in my mind.

I take umbrage at the suggestion I'm a fool. I have been involved in this hobby for almost 43 years. Along the way I picked up a Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering and a Masters in Computer Science. I am quite familiar with how and why electrically operated devices operate. I have designed gear and modify gear. I have participated in SBT and DBT testing. Both test types raise more questions than they answer.
It has been my experience that tweak detractors usually have several things in common. A few of those are
1. A complete refusal to try any tweak they don't believe.
2. A call for DBT's.
3. An almost universal use of AV receivers.
As I said in an earlier post, (I'm paraphrasing here) "Insted of calling any tweak snake oil, try it yourself and then tell others your conclusions. I'm more inclined to listen to someone who has first hand experience. When you condemn something without knowledge it benefits no one not even yourself."

I could be just as rude and disrespectful by telling detractors "Get better gear, then you could hear what others hear". However you guys don't like to hear that.

[poppachubby]

I could be just as rude and disrespectful by telling detractors "Get better gear, then you could hear what others hear". However you guys don't like to hear that.

hahahaha, no "we" don't. I'm one of those wee guys with the modest gear. I think this is why humility is somewhat important around here, particularily when your years of experience and quality of gear are lacking. I won't let anyone chit on my head, but I also know my place in the food chain. It's all good, I plan to have it all down the road.

BTW Joe, check out my new thread in the analog section, opinions on either item?

[JohnMichael]

3. An almost universal use of AV receivers.
As I said in an earlier post, (I'm paraphrasing here) "Insted of calling any tweak snake oil, try it yourself and then tell others your conclusions. I'm more inclined to listen to someone who has first hand experience. When you condemn something without knowledge it benefits no one not even yourself."

I could be just as rude and disrespectful by telling detractors "Get better gear, then you could hear what others hear". However you guys don't like to hear that.

JoeE very good points and I wish I could give you more rep points. Once again I must say you made a very good post.

[Smokey]

IAs I said in an earlier post, (I'm paraphrasing here) "Insted of calling any tweak snake oil, try it yourself and then tell others your conclusions. I'm more inclined to listen to someone who has first hand experience. When you condemn something without knowledge it benefits no one not even yourself."

That is fine and all, but if you look at other side of equation, what is missing is common sense. “Try the tweak or shut up” argument is a flawed concept as it undermined the achievement we have made in science and electronic in last 100 years.

We all know that jumping off a cliff will kill you. But if you go by above argument, then we all say that if you haven’t jump, shut up and don’t say it will kill you until you try it.

The same goes for audio. There are so many snake oil out there that you have call them out without trying them, or 4 years of education you have received in college is irrelevant.

Tweaks like HI-FI fuses seem to be more of cosmetic enhancement than anything else, so dismissing them without trying them does not necessarily make the conclusion invalid.

[3db]

I take umbrage at the suggestion I'm a fool. I have been involved in this hobby for almost 43 years. Along the way I picked up a Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering and a Masters in Computer Science. I am quite familiar with how and why electrically operated devices operate. I have designed gear and modify gear. I have participated in SBT and DBT testing. Both test types raise more questions than they answer.
It has been my experience that tweak detractors usually have several things in common. A few of those are
1. A complete refusal to try any tweak they don't believe.
2. A call for DBT's.
3. An almost universal use of AV receivers.
As I said in an earlier post, (I'm paraphrasing here) "Insted of calling any tweak snake oil, try it yourself and then tell others your conclusions. I'm more inclined to listen to someone who has first hand experience. When you condemn something without knowledge it benefits no one not even yourself."


I could be just as rude and disrespectful by telling detractors "Get better gear, then you could hear what others hear". However you guys don't like to hear that.

1.) I'm all for acoustic tweeking in rooms. That would include speaker placement as well. Better isolation or decoupling of a turntable from vibrations. These are all measurable items. If you mod the values of capacitance, inductance, or resistsance, of course you may hear something different. But again that is measureable

2.) A DBT test?? Your point? So? Look at my point 3 below. At least I'm open enough to say that what I may perceive to hear is actually governed by other influences such as sight or knowing in advance what I'm using. Hardly objective in my books.

3.) I distrust my first impressions of my Yamaha over the Panasonic becuase I was going on audio memory and I was not able to switch back and forth quickly enough between the two receivers to actually hear a difference. I also fail to understand your point three about using receivers.

But fuses, expensive cables where the parameters such as resistance, capacitance and inducatance are so small, ( less than .001% different in values compared to cheaper brands ) that it is impossible to hear that difference. Humanly impossible. Don't throw out your education based on subjective results. Floyd Toole and the people that believe in his methodolgy and successful results are the only people I trust to give me an obejective results. All of teh other people in magazines who report subjective results about audio cables and interconnects and other tweaks which are not based on scientific principles in the audio industry are perpetrating fraud as far as I'm concerned. I beleive you that you think you can hear a difference. I think your claim is sincere. (I'm not lumping you into the category of these audio magazine critics ) but I do question your subject results.