Behringer Ultra-Curve Pro DSP8024 or other Real Time Analyzer?

[Mike Anderson]

Yes, I saw that the 2496 has it. Does that do the room correction just like the 8024? I take it the 2496 is the new/improved/better version of the 8024?

Florian, how are you liking the 8024 unit?

[Feanor]

Yes, I saw that the 2496 has it. Does that do the room correction just like the 8024? I take it the 2496 is the new/improved/better version of the 8024?...

Yes, the the DEQ2496 has a real time analyser and will construct a 61 band correction correction curve. For theses functions, you'll need to get a suitable microphone such as the Behringer ECM8000.

Here are the links:

http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG
http://www.behringer.com/ECM8000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Note that the DEQ2496 has optical (toslink) S/PDIF inputs and outputs, but no coaxial connectors.

I'm planning to get one of these units. Initially I'll probably feed it directly from my Sony SACD player, (RBCD digital, of course), but eventually I'll feed it from USB sound card with a S/PDIF output -- I hope to put my entire collection on HD encoded using Apple Lossless format and organized with iTunes.

[Mike Anderson]

Looks pretty cool, I'm definitely going to research it.

Only thing is, my sound is so sweet right now I hate to muck with it. It's hard to imagine how it could sound any better. I'm saying to myself, "I love my sound so much, why fix what ain't broke?"

Of course I realize my frequency response isn't anywhere near flat, but does it really make that big a difference? Do I care that much, to the tune of $400?

PS - The 1.6's are unreal now that they're broken in, I'm *really* enjoying them! I should have bought these things years ago.

[Feanor]

...
Only thing is, my sound is so sweet right now I hate to muck with it. It's hard to imagine how it could sound any better. I'm saying to myself, "I love my sound so much, why fix what ain't broke?"

Of course I realize my frequency response isn't anywhere near flat, but does it really make that big a difference? Do I care that much, to the tune of $400?
....

Right now I'm using a Behringer T1951 which is an analog parametric, "tube" equalizer. Very definitely there is an improvment in the naturalness of the sound. I had to use my Radio Shack SPL meter to get readings, then manually enter the corrections on the T1951; this is likely to be a lot less precise than the RTA capabilities of the DEQ2496, nevertheless the improvement is very significant.

Research, notably the Dr. Floyd Toole, has demonstrated that a flat frequency is the single most important determinent of perceived speaker quality, (not the only one). You will be suprised how "unflat" your system will measure from your listening position. No speakers are perfectly flat to begin with, and room effects, mainly resonances and relections will ensure additional "unflatness". OK, strong bass resonances and early relections are best addressed using room treatments (where possible) but the residuals can be effectively mitigated using at least 1/3 octave or parametric correction.

I find that my current T1951 has a very minimal or no effect on resolution and a very slight reduction in micro-dynamics; these represent a very small price to pay for the flatter, more natural frequency response. In the case of the T1951 these tiny issues might be the result of the tube circuitry. I'm expecting greater things overall from the DEQ2496.

[Mike Anderson]

Right now I'm using a Behringer T1951 which is an analog parametric, "tube" equalizer. Very definitely there is an improvment in the naturalness of the sound. I had to use my Radio Shack SPL meter to get readings, then manually enter the corrections on the T1951; this is likely to be a lot less precise than the RTA capabilities of the DEQ2496, nevertheless the improvement is very significant.

Research, notably the Dr. Floyd Toole, has demonstrated that a flat frequency is the single most important determinent of perceived speaker quality, (not the only one). You will be suprised how "unflat" your system will measure from your listening position. No speakers are perfectly flat to begin with, and room effects, mainly resonances and relections will ensure additional "unflatness". OK, strong bass resonances and early relections are best addressed using room treatments (where possible) but the residuals can be effectively mitigated using at least 1/3 octave or parametric correction.

I find that my current T1951 has a very minimal or no effect on resolution and a very slight reduction in micro-dynamics; these represent a very small price to pay for the flatter, more natural frequency response. In the case of the T1951 these tiny issues might be the result of the tube circuitry. I'm expecting greater things overall from the DEQ2496.

Alright then, I'll give it a try.

I like that I can do the processing entirely in the digital domain; seems like that minimizes the degree to which I'm mucking up the signal.

I'll let you know what I think.

[Mike Anderson]

Alright, I've spent some time playing with the thing, but clearly I have a lot to figure out. I did a RTA room correction analysis, and it sounds OK, but frankly I'm not all that impressed. Maybe I just need to fool with it a little more.

I do know I'm still not dealing with the bass end properly. For one thing, the default setting for the RTA AutoEQ is to ignore everything below 100Hz! The manual says:

It makes sense to exclude the low frequency range (up to approx. 100 Hz) from AUTO EQing, because it is this range that may produce inaccuracies during the calculation of the frequency response, which might impair the results achieved with the AUTO EQ.

But this is the frequency range I'm most concerned about!

Also, it seems to be doing some fairly dramatic corrections on the low end right above 100 Hz. Two adjacent frequences are very different, one correct +7db, the other corrected -7db.

[Feanor]

Alright, I've spent some time playing with the thing, but clearly I have a lot to figure out. I did a RTA room correction analysis, and it sounds OK, but frankly I'm not all that impressed. Maybe I just need to fool with it a little more.

I do know I'm still not dealing with the bass end properly. For one thing, the default setting for the RTA AutoEQ is to ignore everything below 100Hz! The manual says:

But this is the frequency range I'm most concerned about!

Also, it seems to be doing some fairly dramatic corrections on the low end right above 100 Hz. Two adjacent frequences are very different, one correct +7db, the other corrected -7db.

Mike, I guess you should take the manual's advise and exclude <100 from the AutoEQ. However you probably can take RTA measurements without the AutoEQ, then use these to manually correct the AutoEQ below 100Hz. As I understand it, you can store settings, recall and modify them, and restore or store the modified version as a separate setting.

As you experiment you might discover that that the corrections made in the midrange, say 400 - 4000Hz, make as much or more difference than that sub-100 corrections. Do you listen to much accoustic music, (e.g. classical, jazz)? If so, you will likely find this to be the case.

Let us know how it goes. Personnally I'm pretty concerned about any loss of resolution or micro-dynamics.

[Geoffcin]

Alright, I've spent some time playing with the thing, but clearly I have a lot to figure out. I did a RTA room correction analysis, and it sounds OK, but frankly I'm not all that impressed. Maybe I just need to fool with it a little more.

I do know I'm still not dealing with the bass end properly. For one thing, the default setting for the RTA AutoEQ is to ignore everything below 100Hz! The manual says:

But this is the frequency range I'm most concerned about!

Also, it seems to be doing some fairly dramatic corrections on the low end right above 100 Hz. Two adjacent frequences are very different, one correct +7db, the other corrected -7db.

They can only adjust for one specific listening position. Even a couple feet either side of this and the adjustments are off.

[Mike Anderson]

Yes, the the DEQ2496 has a real time analyser and will construct a 61 band correction correction curve. For theses functions, you'll need to get a suitable microphone such as the Behringer ECM8000.

Here are the links:

http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG
http://www.behringer.com/ECM8000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Note that the DEQ2496 has optical (toslink) S/PDIF inputs and outputs, but no coaxial connectors.

I'm planning to get one of these units. Initially I'll probably feed it directly from my Sony SACD player, (RBCD digital, of course), but eventually I'll feed it from USB sound card with a S/PDIF output -- I hope to put my entire collection on HD encoded using Apple Lossless format and organized with iTunes.

I've been told that you can't do RTA/room correction just with the unit and the ECM mic. Apparently you have to hook it up to a computer, as it doesn't generate its own pink noise.

Is that correct?

EDIT: Never mind, the salesman was clueless. I've looked in the manual, and he's just wrong.