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  1. #1
    Forum Regular drgnfly's Avatar
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    Been reading ... just getting more confused.

    I'm new to all this stuff and been reading for a few weeks regarding audio gear and also have gone to a few shops to test out a few receivers and speakers as well.

    I'm trying to set up a system for about $6K. I'm interested in music but would like to use the system to dab into movies here and there. My music preference is as follows: 50% Electronic&Ambient, 30% Jazz & Latin Music, 15% Rock, 5% classical. I enjoy a room-filling bass sound as well as some of the higher treble pitches.

    Some of the shops i've been to, have given me recommendations, but I dunno if they are just trying to sell me their inventory or what. Been reading reviews here and a few other forums but most talk about gear only. Wouldn't your preference in music also be a key influencer in what kind of system one would get?

    Brands in which have tested:
    Speakers: KEF iQ Series, Monitor Audio Silver Series, Dali iKon Series, Triangle, JBL,
    Receivers and CDP: Denon, Onkyo, Cambridge Audio

    I may be wrong in assuming that my musical preferences may require a system, specially speakers that will be able to handle some good beating?

    I would really appreciate your advice and directions here. I'll also be purchasing a 40inch LCD for the living along with this system. And LCD TV budget is extra... not included in the $6K for the Audio System.

    Thank you all.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Send me your number and i can give you a general fill in of the technologys out there and what exactly makes them different. Maybe the Tannoy Coax are for you, maybe the Piega 10 or the Avalons, or some Planars with real bass (Apogee, Perigee, Analysis Audio).....lets have a chat :-) Be warned tough, i hate commercial advertised junk.....
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  3. #3
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    With a $6000 budget a receiver should be the last thing on your list. Seperates is the only way to go!

  4. #4
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Ab-so-lute-ly...

    Quote Originally Posted by drgnfly
    Wouldn't your preference in music also be a key influencer in what kind of system one would get?
    ...Someone who listens to string-quartets will have different requirements than a metal-head...

    Stores like BB and CC pretty much sell the same stuff to meet a price point...that's not to say it's bad, it's generally competent enough to produce pleasing results and you have to start somewhere. Once you go above that level the specialty shops tend to have a more diverse group of manufacturers...unfortunately, in order to retain a certain mystique or level of exclusivity, the manufacturers don't allow shops in the same geographical area to sell there wares...that results in competition and price-cutting, which can erode that name-brand's cache.

    Sorry for the seemingly endless blather...the net result is: each place will tout what they sell...places with class will peacefully coexist, others will denigrate what the competition sells...it's your job to wallow through the salesman's BS and listen to what sounds good to you, with source material that you are familiar with and at the levels you will be playing it...

    Anything that anyone recommends will have some strings attached...personal preference is just that and it's your preference alone that counts...

    There is nothing wrong with any of the manufacturers you have mentioned, despite what some others may say or infer, as much of it has to do with outright snob-appeal...

    jimHJJ(...good luck and good listening...)
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  5. #5
    Forum Regular drgnfly's Avatar
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    still searching

    Thanks for your comments, especially to Florian which I had the pleasure of directly speaking on the phone. Conversation was very helpful. (yet filled my head with even more question marks... hahahah)

    I wish I was back home (NY), but I'm not. I'm currently working and living in Asia, so my resources for research are limited here. Another thing that is hard here is that retail channels are way different than the States. Lastly, what kills me is $$$ here, stuff is way overpriced.

    I'll be going out ... again... this weekend to sample a few more.

    Thanks again.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    I have very similar musical tastes (heavy on ambient/electronic), and about eight months ago I was in the same situation -- knowing little about stereo gear, and finding myself more confused with the more research I did.

    To simplify your search, you should focus first on what kind of speakers you want. Assuming you have a decent source (and that's easy for your budget), the speakers will have the biggest influence on the sound, and your choice of speakers will also drive your amp selection

    For your musical tastes, I would give serious consideration to planar speakers (e.g. Magnepan 1.6qr):

    http://www.magnepan.com/_mg16.php

    That's what I chose, and let me tell you, they do ambient/electronica beautifully! They are very high resolution speakers, so you get the most out of the well-produced, detail-oriented, layered sound like modern ambient offers. They're also perfect for jazz/classical/acoustic stuff.

    If you can at all find a place to audition them, definitely check out the Magnepan 1.6qr. They're well within your budget, and if you decide you like them, that simplifies the amp selection process considerably (basically you just need something with lots of current, delivered cleanly and with finesse).

    They're a great value too. You'll hear from lots of Magnepan fans on this forum, and for good reason. Florian will back me up on this!
    There's an audiophile born every minute. Congratulations; you're right on time.

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  7. #7
    Forum Regular Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    One other thing about the Magnepans:

    If you can't find a place to audition the 1.6qr's, think hard about ordering the MMG's sight unseen for $550. They'll give you a small taste of what Magnepan's sound like, and if you decide you don't like them, you can return them within 30 days. Or, if you decide you want to step up to the 1.6qr's, you get four months to trade in the MMG's for full value.

    That's what I did, and I'm very glad!
    There's an audiophile born every minute. Congratulations; you're right on time.

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  8. #8
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    They're a great value too. You'll hear from lots of Magnepan fans on this forum, and for good reason. Florian will back me up on this!
    If it doesnt have a box, i like it :-) We talked about Maggies and others but unfortunatly they are not easy to get in Korea. From the boxes i saw there, my recommendation was Mirage among others.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  9. #9
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    That's interesting that electronics are expensive in Asia. I would have thought just the opposite. I agree that if performance is important that you should go with separates. A couple brands I'd recommend taking a listen to if available is Arcam in electronics. Arcam is an excellent performer and good performance to price ratio (bang for the buck). They aren't cheap but you will get your money's worth. I also like that they are able to do HT with out sacraficing good sound. They have a very good A/V processor for $2,500.00 in U.S. Just add a multichannel amp and pick your speakers. My favorite speakers are Dynaudio. The Audience, or possibly Focs series could fit your budget depending on what electronics and prices in Asia.

    Another good point that was made is that audio gear is a personal preference. What sends me may send you running. For instance, I wouldn't own Klipsch or Bose yet they are both still in business and have a pretty good rep amongst those that can't hear well Some prefer solid state and some like tubes. Also, people have different perspectives, I personally think the best bass I've ever heard was from Krell driving Dynaudio. It was tight, controlled and hit like a sledge hammer. Yet those who like bass to boom or a fat bass may not like how the Krell/Dyn sounded.

    Also, keep in mind if you want to do home theater you should pick speakers that allow you to have matching center channel and maybe not as important but still recommended, matching surrounds. Matching, as in voice/timbre matched.

    A good system should sound good on whatever kind of music you listen to. If some one says a system sounds best for a certain type of music, it is either colored (not neutral or over/under emphasizing certain frequencies of the sound) or inadequate in some area.

    Feel free to email if I can help.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Not to mention those speakers with consistant coloration caused by something....

    I agree on the Arcam gear as well. I personally cant stand Dynaudio and the muddy bass, but then again its all about preference. The problem with the Maggies is simply bass, they just dont play low and a subwoofer integration is not possible if you are a die hard perfectionist unless you go way overboard.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  11. #11
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    Florian, I realize you are just trying to start another argument with your ridiculous statement on Dynaudio. But, it's posts like that which adds to the confusion of less experienced readers. If anyone on this board, just one, who has ever heard Dynaudio agrees with you, then I will stand corrected. Dynaudio is the benchmark in bass response for other speaker manufacturers. For those who have actually heard Dynaudio, your statement is the last thing they'd think. I could care less what you or the thread starter use but I have to call you on your slander.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    The problem with the Maggies is simply bass, they just dont play low and a subwoofer integration is not possible if you are a die hard perfectionist unless you go way overboard.

    For my tastes, the 1.6qr's have plenty of bass. They don't do anything under 45 Hz or so, but frankly I don't miss it. And the bass they do put out is extremely tight and musical. In fact the quality of the bass is one of my favorite things about my Maggies.

    That said, it will all depend on your room, your music, and your tastes.

    PS - Remember, the guy is working with a budget. If you don't have $30k+ to spend (and most of us don't), some tradeoffs are necessary.
    There's an audiophile born every minute. Congratulations; you're right on time.

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  13. #13
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Anderson
    For my tastes, the 1.6qr's have plenty of bass. They don't do anything under 45 Hz or so, but frankly I don't miss it. And the bass they do put out is extremely tight and musical. In fact the quality of the bass is one of my favorite things about my Maggies.

    That said, it will all depend on your room, your music, and your tastes.

    PS - Remember, the guy is working with a budget. If you don't have $30k+ to spend (and most of us don't), some tradeoffs are necessary.
    With all respect Mike, wait until you hear your music over the 3.6 or the 20.1
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Florian, I realize you are just trying to start another argument with your ridiculous statement on Dynaudio. But, it's posts like that which adds to the confusion of less experienced readers. If anyone on this board, just one, who has ever heard Dynaudio agrees with you, then I will stand corrected. Dynaudio is the benchmark in bass response for other speaker manufacturers. For those who have actually heard Dynaudio, your statement is the last thing they'd think. I could care less what you or the thread starter use but I have to call you on your slander.
    I have no interest in an argument, ask Bernd and Joe what they think of Dynaudio Boxbass.....
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  15. #15
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Surprised that no one has asked you this first, but are you looking to build a two-channel or multichannel system with that budget? That will go a long way in deciding what to buy.

    For now, I would suggest that you try listening to as many speakers as you can. The ones you've listened to so far cover a relatively limited range. For what you listen to, you might want to give the Canadian speakers a try (i.e. Energy, Paradigm, PSB, Mirage, Athena). They typically extend the highs a little more than British brands, and dial in more punch in the midbass and project a wider soundstage. Depending on the electronic music that you listen to, those characteristics will work well with the imaging cues that get mixed into a lot of those tunes.

    Klipsch and Definitive Technology will provide a more aggressive sound. I also like the Dynaudios overall, but if you go with those speakers, you will need more than a multichannel receiver to power them due to their low efficiency and low impedance. The Magnepans are nice with acoustic instruments, but I did not like them as much with amplified instruments and heavy percussive sounds. Another company to consider is Vandersteen. Those speakers image extraordinarily well and use the best matched center speaker I've heard, but do other things that I found bizarre. However, Vandersteen has a lot of strong supporters, and some high end reviewers use Vandys in their reference system.

    Once you've found a set of speakers that you like, remember to try them out at home to see how well they match with your room. The choice in amp will depend on the speakers you pick (going with a five low impedance speakers is generally not recommended on multichannel receivers unless you add an external amplifier), and whether you intend to stick with two channels or go multichannel. (The designs are very different in that two-channel amps are all-analog, while multichannel designs incorporate digital processors and conversions in the signal path)

    Take your time, do your listenings, and remember that in the end, it's your opinion that matters the most.
    Wooch's Home Theater 2.0 (Pics)
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  16. #16
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Woochifer] .

    ( They typically extend the highs a little more than British brands, and dial in more punch in the midbass and project a wider soundstage. )

    That is one hell of a sweeping statement to make. How many different british speakers have you heard?

    Bernd
    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  17. #17
    Linear Guy
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    couple of speaker choices

    For the type of music you are listening to, Planar speakers would be perfect. The ambient and contemplative music is engineered for an open, airy soundstage and the planars will enhance it . Another posibilitiy would be Gallo Reference 3. with the Sub amp you are looking at about 3,500 pair. Mine sound superb with that kind of music. ( i don't like the music, my wife does.). The Gallos have a broad open sound and do not sound boxy at all.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviethek
    For the type of music you are listening to, Planar speakers would be perfect. The ambient and contemplative music is engineered for an open, airy soundstage and the planars will enhance it . Another posibilitiy would be Gallo Reference 3. with the Sub amp you are looking at about 3,500 pair. Mine sound superb with that kind of music. ( i don't like the music, my wife does.). The Gallos have a broad open sound and do not sound boxy at all.
    The best recommendation. Gallo Ref 3....but the problem is the avaliability in Korea----
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  19. #19
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernd
    That is one hell of a sweeping statement to make. How many different british speakers have you heard?

    Bernd
    Note that I said "typically," it was meant as a generalization, but by no means a universal statement that applies to everything. The listenings would be various models I've heard over the years from B&W, KEF, Mission, Celestion, Monitor Audio, Quad, BSR, dbx, among others.
    Wooch's Home Theater 2.0 (Pics)
    Panasonic VIERA TH-C50FD18 50" 1080p
    Paradigm Reference Studio 40, CC, and 20 v.2
    Adire Audio Rava (EQ: Behringer Feedback Destroyer DSP1124)
    Yamaha RX-A1030
    Dual CS5000 (Ortofon OM30 Super)
    Sony UBP-X800
    Sony Playstation 3 (MediaLink OS X Server)
    Sony ES SCD-C2000ES
    JVC HR-S3912U
    Directv HR44 and WVB
    Logitech Harmony 700
    iPhone 5s/iPad 3
    Linksys WES610



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    Subwoofer Setup and Parametric EQ Results *Dead Link*

  20. #20
    Forum Regular drgnfly's Avatar
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    After much confusion and reading your comments as well as in some of the other areas....

    I do need a 5.1+ Channel system. Although I would be doing most listening, my fiance on the other hand will want to use it to watch her DVDs.

    My "ear-shopping" list for this weekend.... I will only try really get to speakers.
    Dali Ikon 6 (I liked how they sounded last time so will give it another try)
    Mirage Om7
    NHT ST4
    Quad (I don't know which models they will have available)

    Problems:
    1. I do not have any gear to test the speakers at home with, and i don't think that they will let me take a whole system with me to test it out for the weekend.
    2. Most of the dealers here are all located in one building (really weird set-up, ever been to one of those indoor flea-markets? not all open space with tables, but with ones where they actually have booths? That should give you a pretty good idea of how it is like it there. I'll try to snap a few pics and post it somewhere for you all. The good part about this is that I don't have to drive to different places in town to check out different things, and also if one vendor doesn't have what i want, they can always go and get it from their neighbor and not punk the prices). So they don't really have any dedicated listening rooms, with the exception of some really, really high-end stuff.

    In any case, this is really helpful and will be letting you all know what happens this weekend.

  21. #21
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Note that I said "typically," it was meant as a generalization, but by no means a universal statement that applies to everything. The listenings would be various models I've heard over the years from B&W, KEF, Mission, Celestion, Monitor Audio, Quad, BSR, dbx, among others.
    I understand that. It is however wrong to generalise. Over the years sound has changed even within manufacturers as ownership changes hand. The Spendors of now sound nothing like the Spendors of old.Same with Proac. And from reading the line up that you put you listened to, does that mean that a speaker from Quad sounds the same or similar than a KEF speaker, i.e.british?
    Over here very often Krell, Audio Research and Wilson are mentioned as an american sound, which I don't think reflects the variety that exicsts.

    Peace

    Bernd
    Last edited by Bernd; 05-25-2006 at 02:09 AM.
    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  22. #22
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    Having access to several vendors in one place could be a real advantage, especially if they are willling to allow you to take a piece from one booth to try it on other equipment.

    It has been my experience that sticking with the same brand electronics, especially with separates usually yields better synergy. Of course, this excludes speakers.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernd
    I understand that. It is however wrong to generalise. Over the years sound has changed even within manufacturers as ownership changes hand. The Spendors of now sound nothing like the Spendors of old.Same with Proac. And from reading the line up that you put you listened to, does that mean that a speaker from Quad sounds the same or similar than a KEF speaker, i.e.british?
    Over here very often Krell, Audio Research and Wilson are mentioned as an american sound, which I don't think reflects the variety that exicsts.

    Peace

    Bernd
    I understand, and that's not meant to say that all British speakers sound the same. Only that in comparison with those aforementioned Canadian companies, British speakers will TYPICALLY have a less pronounced high end, a narrower soundstage, and a less aggressive midbass. Not once did I proclaim that anything sounded the same. With this type of thread especially where posters are offering up general suggestions, I don't see any issue with generalizing so long as it's acknowledged up front, and not presented as universal truth.
    Wooch's Home Theater 2.0 (Pics)
    Panasonic VIERA TH-C50FD18 50" 1080p
    Paradigm Reference Studio 40, CC, and 20 v.2
    Adire Audio Rava (EQ: Behringer Feedback Destroyer DSP1124)
    Yamaha RX-A1030
    Dual CS5000 (Ortofon OM30 Super)
    Sony UBP-X800
    Sony Playstation 3 (MediaLink OS X Server)
    Sony ES SCD-C2000ES
    JVC HR-S3912U
    Directv HR44 and WVB
    Logitech Harmony 700
    iPhone 5s/iPad 3
    Linksys WES610



    The Neverending DVD/BD Collection

    Subwoofer Setup and Parametric EQ Results *Dead Link*

  24. #24
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drgnfly
    After much confusion and reading your comments as well as in some of the other areas....

    I do need a 5.1+ Channel system. Although I would be doing most listening, my fiance on the other hand will want to use it to watch her DVDs.

    My "ear-shopping" list for this weekend.... I will only try really get to speakers.
    Dali Ikon 6 (I liked how they sounded last time so will give it another try)
    Mirage Om7
    NHT ST4
    Quad (I don't know which models they will have available)

    Problems:
    1. I do not have any gear to test the speakers at home with, and i don't think that they will let me take a whole system with me to test it out for the weekend.
    2. Most of the dealers here are all located in one building (really weird set-up, ever been to one of those indoor flea-markets? not all open space with tables, but with ones where they actually have booths? That should give you a pretty good idea of how it is like it there. I'll try to snap a few pics and post it somewhere for you all. The good part about this is that I don't have to drive to different places in town to check out different things, and also if one vendor doesn't have what i want, they can always go and get it from their neighbor and not punk the prices). So they don't really have any dedicated listening rooms, with the exception of some really, really high-end stuff.

    In any case, this is really helpful and will be letting you all know what happens this weekend.
    First thing I would bring up is that with a multichannel system, you don't need to buy the whole thing at the same time. One of the nice things about home theater is that you have the option of adding the speakers incrementally as your budget allows. The biggest mistake that a lot of buyers make is thinking that they have to buy the entire 5.1 package together. Also, you don't need to buy the subwoofer from the same manufacturer. But, make sure that you listen to the five L/C/R/LS/RS speakers together to make sure that their timbral characteristics match reasonably well.

    I would suggest that you first find a pair of speakers that meets your needs, and then get either a multichannel receiver or a multichannel processor with an outboard amp. Once you get the basics, then you can add additional speakers and/or amplification as needed.

    If you decide on either the NHT or the Mirage, keep in mind that those speakers will probably sound different in your room than most other conventional box speakers. The NHT because it's a sealed box design that will likely interact with the room boundary differently than the more common ported designs will, which makes a difference in the low frequencies (generally speaking, ported designs are very well suited to smaller rooms and might subjectively sound more "musical"). And the Mirage because it's an omnipolar design that radiates the high frequencies in a 360 degree pattern.
    Wooch's Home Theater 2.0 (Pics)
    Panasonic VIERA TH-C50FD18 50" 1080p
    Paradigm Reference Studio 40, CC, and 20 v.2
    Adire Audio Rava (EQ: Behringer Feedback Destroyer DSP1124)
    Yamaha RX-A1030
    Dual CS5000 (Ortofon OM30 Super)
    Sony UBP-X800
    Sony Playstation 3 (MediaLink OS X Server)
    Sony ES SCD-C2000ES
    JVC HR-S3912U
    Directv HR44 and WVB
    Logitech Harmony 700
    iPhone 5s/iPad 3
    Linksys WES610



    The Neverending DVD/BD Collection

    Subwoofer Setup and Parametric EQ Results *Dead Link*

  25. #25
    Forum Regular drgnfly's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Having access to several vendors in one place could be a real advantage, especially if they are willling to allow you to take a piece from one booth to try it on other equipment.

    Actually having them all in one building is actually great. Even better they are all on one floor. They also use price comparison websites in Korea to negotiate prices with you. But what's really good about it is that, I have a broken foot right now (been on crutches for about 2 months now, and still another month to go) and it makes eye/ear shopping much easier for me.

    Woochifer... thanks for the great advice!!!

    Its 11am here right now... but pouring!!! been raining since last nite. Waiting for the rain to stop or to at least slow down so that I can get myself in to the dealers.

    (I can't handle a pair of crutches and an umbrella at the same time... suxs... )

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