Basic question for a starter audio system

[barnabasvictor@yahoo.com]

Hello ,

This is my first post in this forum. Let me explain a bit about me. I am not a audiophile or a someone who knows a lot about audio components. But, I am technically inclined person and understand technical things and I also like good sound. I am looking at a basic audio system, 5.1 HT receiver and book shelf Speakers for under 600 USD. My previous equipment include SONY amp and speaker and 5 CD changer which was OK, but far from impressive. In terms of building my new system

My question is.
1. Should I decide on the receiver and then pick a suitable speaker or the other way

2. Do you have any recommendations for any particular brand

I have more questions, but will ask them based on the suggestions given by the folks in the forum. thanks for the help.

regards,
BVictor

[aevans]

onkyo prepakage deal is the best stuff I've heard in the main stream audio world..

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ex44b4Q...0&I=580HTS800B

at 500 bucks it's everything but the tv and dvd player and it sound good.

if you want a very nice dvd player that matches - good analog and digital sound this is it:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ex44b4Q...00&I=580DXC390

My brother has the same setup and it's very good sound, even in stereo mode it sounds like close to a $5000 system

[barnabasvictor@yahoo.com]

Hi aevans

Thanks for the info on the ONKYO HT system.. Seems like a good deal. I will keep that in mind. My concern is, does Onkyo speakers sound good. The other thing is that, I am not too keen on Home theater ( as video effect) I am more keen on a nice sounding system. So, I figured, I can get a decent receiver and 2 nice books shelf spks and later get a 2 nice tower speakers and use the book shelf as my side/rear speakers for my HT. How does that seem ? Thanks for your response.

regards,
BVictor

[aevans]

I'd just get the onkyo, the speakers are really good for the price and I don't see getting a bunch of equipment to match that anywhere near the price range.

I don't buy speakers off the shelf, so I can't provide recommendations...

as for an amp/receiver if you want the best stereo sound I would get a class a solid state amp used off of ebay or in the paper. note most of these amps will need a preamp, so you are looking at a good amount of cash to drop.

I thought that the onkyo stuff would sound like ass as well, and I don't ever listen to surround sound.. so that was more of a distraction. the drivers and the matching are well done on the system and are really top notch for the price range. I would definately put them up againts polks and the like as it's just as capable as their more expensive sub/sat systems.

if you don't want the extra speakers just don't hook them up, I think the 5.1 stuff is retarded, so I know 7.1 is.. you can set the receiver for however many speaker you want to use.

[DEVO]

Your better off looking in audiogon or craigslist for some used speakers. Those HTIB speakers won't give descent stereo sound. Onkyo has good receivers, but someone else built their speakers.
Retail, $500 it isn't a bad deal...but look around for someone getting rid of their old ones because their wife made them buy Bose!
Then find the receiver that matches their impedence and your needs.

Good Luck!

[anamorphic96]

This Denon system can be found for less than the price listed. I have seen these at Costco for 499. Which is a great deal. The receiver and DVD player are quite good and can be easily mated with much better speakers in the future. HT magazine just did a big article where they used this system with 4 other speaker systems and achieved great results with all the speakers. The speakers it does come with are pretty darn good and sound better than the Onkyo speakers IMO.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/h...n-a-box-review

[Resident Loser]

...a $600 HTIB or similarly priced gear is not going to sound like a $5000 system...The primary weak link will be the loudspeakers. Typical HTIB inclusions simply won't have low frequency extension or the ability to provide the SPLs of well chosen and matched individual components...It's simply a matter of cost vs. performance and simple physics...And power requirements are another matter entirely...

To the OP: Start with the loudspeakers and build from there...they will dictate your power requirements and the rest will follow...

jimHJJ(...FWIW...)

[markw]

do you want a two channel system or a 5.1 HT system? With your budget you stand a better chance of getting good sound with a 2 channel system.

Once that's been resolved, choose speakers. They will determine what amps will work with them.

[barnabasvictor@yahoo.com]

Yes, I would be very happy with a 2 channel audio system that has nice full range of sound, fills the living room and can increase the volume without sounding noisy. I honestly started looking at a 2ch system, but my friend suggested to get a HT receiver as I can scale it up later to a HT system if I want to.

All the response here are helpful in giving me different possible solutions and options. I am having a harder time at this that when I went thru the process of selecting my digital camera.

[GMichael]

Speakers first. They will dictate what amps you can use.
I don't like the HTIB move. It will give you a matched set of speakers, but Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, etc may make good receivers but don't make great speakers.
I do like the idea of starting with two good bookshelf's for now and then getting the matching towers etc later. Just make sure that you pick a pair that have a matching center available.
What speakers you pick out will partly decide what receivers or amps you can or can't use. Most 8 or 6 ohm speakers can be driven with most any receiver though. How good there are will depend on your ears and budget.
There are so many good speakers to choose from that it's hard to say, buy these or those. Some people will like one brand while another will hate them. So try to get out to as many speaker stores as you can and hear as many as you can before you pull the trigger. A little extra time here will pay off in the long run. If you can't get to any speaker stores for whatever reasons you have, there are a few online stores who will let you try their speakers for 30 days and then return them if you don't like them. Here are just one set of decent bookshelf speakers. As you can see, it would be easy to blow your whole budget on one set. So maybe that's a good way to approach it. A little now, and then more later when you have the cash.
http://www.av123.com/products_produc...rs&product=2.1

http://www.av123.com/products_catego...eakers&brand=3

This line is a little cheaper, but still nice.
http://www.av123.com/products_catego...akers&brand=55

[Rock789]

speaker suggestions:
Focal JMLab Chorus 714S - tower

Focal JM Lab Chorus 706S - bookshelf

I have the 716S and 706S and both are very nice!
if you are debating a tower, $395 is a crazy deal for a new 714S

if you have no intention of upgrading to surround sound, look at a used integrated amp...
NAD, ADCOM, B&K would be some low price used suggestions

if you are looking for surround in the future,
check out pioneer, onkyo, denon, receivers... (heck, maybe even a panasonic although I have only read reviews, never auditioned one)
fyi, my brother got a nib pioneer 7.1 receiver on ebay for <$150 shipped... he's not an audiophile, but it does what he wants...
(when I hear it I can give a better review...)

[DEVO]

Focals are VERY nice speakers, sound a little harsh to begin with (like all good speakers). Take about 70 hours to break in, but once they are warmed up they are awesome.

[Rock789]

X2 on the 70 hour break in... maybe even longer... lol

[bobsticks]

...a $600 HTIB or similarly priced gear is not going to sound like a $5000 system...The primary weak link will be the loudspeakers. Typical HTIB inclusions simply won't have low frequency extension or the ability to provide the SPLs of well chosen and matched individual components...It's simply a matter of cost vs. performance and simple physics...And power requirements are another matter entirely...

To the OP: Start with the loudspeakers and build from there...they will dictate your power requirements and the rest will follow...

jimHJJ(...FWIW...)

Holy role reversal, Batman! How often is it that jim comes off as the gearhead?

[barnabasvictor@yahoo.com]

Focals ...hmmm... I need to see if there is store that has them on display/demo.

A few days back, was at BB and listened to Bose 201, 301 and Klipsch book shelf and tower spks. He had it hooked to Yamaha and HK receiver. I liked the Yamaha better in the Receiver. HK sounded tin-ish, not sure why, or if it was not setup right. W.r.t speakers, Klipsch was more rounded and for the same size as Bose had more bass and seemed to have a presence in its sound quality. Bose sounded mild, nice and seemed to envelope better but seemed very superficial and not persistent. I like the Klipsch but wanted to check other brands too.

Based on the advise here, it seems to me to start with a good pair of speakers and then decide on the receiver.

[PeruvianSkies]

Holy role reversal, Batman! How often is it that jim comes off as the gearhead?

I caught that too! I thought maybe he stumbled across a personality lately and decided to keep it.

[Mr Peabody]

If you have no interest in home theater, the suggestion of an integrated amp is the way to go for best sound quality. A Cambridge Audio, NAD or maybe Jolida would be much better than a HT receiver. If you think you might want HT, your route of getting receiver and bookshelf speakers and gradually expanding is the way to go.

I think you liked Yamaha better because the HK was better able to make the Klipsch sound the way they really do. But that is a good lesson as well on how pairing certain brands can yield a desired sound, or mask one undesired. You might seek out some Paradigm speakers to listen to, they are lively without sounding harsh. They are also a very good value. Some here have said the BB brands of Athena and Insignia are good budget speakers.

[emorphien]

With a $600 budget you have a fair bit of options, but you'll probably want to consider what your after, and your room size (what is it btw?). You won't have a whole lot of great choices for floorstanders in that price range but that's not necessarily a problem.

Axiom and AV123 are internet direct brands that can offer a lot of bang for the buck. You could pair them with an Onkyo or HK stereo receiver for example. An integrated amp would be a better choice, but you'd probably have to go used for that. For that matter, used speakers can be a great deal too as you'll get a lot more for your money.

[Resident Loser]

Holy role reversal, Batman! How often is it that jim comes off as the gearhead?

...I'm not saying one needs to spend $5K...simply that, while it may be a perfectly satisfactory product, a $499.95 HTIB and the high-priced spread won't be in the same league on any number of levels; to even suggest it seems...a...er...overly optimistic...

My lo-ball suggestion would be an Onkyo MC35TECH mini-system and a Polk 10" powered sub...for the money <$500USD, IMHO it's a pretty neat set-up...is it going to rival a $5000 2ch stereo? For the most part, I am of the opinion it will do a very good job, within its' limtations...It won't shake the room and it won't make it sound like E. Power Biggs is doin' a Bach two-step on the floor pedals but, in the right room, with the right program material and at reasonable volume levels it will do a credible job.

jimHJJ(...just some clarification...)

[Resident Loser]

I caught that too! I thought maybe he stumbled across a personality lately and decided to keep it.

...your village called, their idiot is missing...

jimHJJ(...and they seem to want you back...)

[barnabasvictor@yahoo.com]

The room is a 12ft X 12ft in dimensions.

Here are a few more of my queries
1. I am assuming that the bookshelves will lack bass as compared to the floor standers. Is that right or is there more to it than that ?

2. Lot of the folks here have suggested Focals, Paradigm, Axiom, AV123. I havent see these at any store. Are these similar in sound quality to Klipsch or are they better.

3. What specification should I look in speakers if I need good clarity and well rounded audio quality at low volume. My Sony speakers sounded Ok when I turned it up, but reducing it to lower volume, it sounded awful. If this a real issue or is it just my ear, am not sure...

thanks for the responses

[barnabasvictor@yahoo.com]

Oh, one more question

Does any sound come out of the side surround speaker when playing music CD's and plain audio ? Are the side speakers used only in HT ?

[Mr Peabody]

Floorstanding speakers generally will play lower than bookshelf. Playing music at low level and having it sound good is more a job for the amp. In the price range you are looking at, I'd suggest getting something with a "loudness" control. This boosts certain frequencies at lower volume to maintain a full sound. I'm not aware of very many CD's that have multi-channel information but DVD, DVD-A & SACD all usually have some type of multi-channel playback.

[Rock789]

The room is a 12ft X 12ft in dimensions.

Here are a few more of my queries
1. I am assuming that the bookshelves will lack bass as compared to the floor standers. Is that right or is there more to it than that ?

2. Lot of the folks here have suggested Focals, Paradigm, Axiom, AV123. I havent see these at any store. Are these similar in sound quality to Klipsch or are they better.

3. What specification should I look in speakers if I need good clarity and well rounded audio quality at low volume. My Sony speakers sounded Ok when I turned it up, but reducing it to lower volume, it sounded awful. If this a real issue or is it just my ear, am not sure...

thanks for the responses

1) A sub, when properly calibrated, will compliment a pair of bookshelves or towers...
with the Focal's I linked, the bookshelves have 6.5" mids so they do fairly well, and the towers have two 5.25 (I think) so they will also do well, but both could use a sub for bass lower than ~45hz imo...

2) Focal chorus S is not similar to paradigm's, which is not similar to klipsch... they all have their own sound...
if you are referring to the klipsch synergy series, imo, both the focal's I suggested and most paradigms would sound better... but if you are referring to the klipsch reference series (think thats what the better series is called), they are all on the same quality gounds... just a different sound, all in what you like...
imo, many paradigms are on the bright side and a little more forward compared to focal chorus s series...
I haven't auditioned any klipsch in a couple years, so I can't compare accurately, but both were in my audition list a few years back when I was building my system...

another speaker to audition is http://www.phasetech.com/
check out the Phase Velocity series... a little cheaper, and sound good imo


3) best suggestion here... audition, audition, audition!!!!
I think focal and paradigms sound good at low volume, but thats my opionion, you may think they sound like junk and the klipsch sounds much better at low volume...

on the topic of auditioning... the more the better... find out what type of speaker you like, and we can probably suggest several similar sound speakers to check out...

[Rock789]

Oh, one more question

Does any sound come out of the side surround speaker when playing music CD's and plain audio ? Are the side speakers used only in HT ?

most surround receivers have the ability to make 2ch audio play on multi channels...
good for parties, bad for quality...