Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
There are however, some very fine dedicated subwoofers such as the best models made by Velodyne using accelerometers in a feedback loop. Loudspeaker of any type whether called subwoofers or not that can accurately reproduce the lowest octave at reasonably high volume with low distortion are few and far between and usually very expensive. But they do exist.

The problem with integrating them with "satellite speakers" is in the transition range. In a well designed sound system, the low frequency unit makes a reasonably seamless match in both phase and frequency response. However when one subwoofer in one location is used with two satellites several feet away, they often created very irregular phase and frequency response that is exaggerated with peaks and troughs all over the place. The best way to use subwoofers IMO, it to buy two of them and locate each one as close to a satellite as possible. This in effect is what you get if you buy a full range tower system such as JBL S412p or recently available AR1.

The test of deep bass are organ pedal notes. Digital recordings on cd work best. On a real pipe organ, those notes are very deep, pure, and are felt. There are very few loudspeakers in my experience which can duplicate those tones accurately.

I think it is outrageous that a manufacturer sells you a pair of supposedly high fidelity loudspeakers for $1500, $2000, $2500 or even more and then tells you if you want to hear the bottom octave, go out and buy my subwoofer for another $1000 or more. That stinks.

One of the most frustrating things about deep bass is not only speaker placement but listener placement as well. Moving the speaker several inches can make a big difference in what you hear. So can moving to another spot in the same room.
I don't disagree because I too believe that you need two subwoofers. I often hear people tout subs as non-directional bass which may be but why do I always know where the sub is? And that was after parametric EQ set-up with SPL and test discs. It just does not sound quite right - can be good mind you for home theater because I don't have a reference for what a tanker truck is supposed to sound like when it explodes. An organ is another matter.

If you look at the Gershwin X1 and SW 1 this is a but the top half add the bottom later http://www.gershmanacoustics.com/sw1.html

And I agree bass costs lots of money. And unfortunately Skeptic we're all not as deep pocketed as you are. We are forced to make a concession - and that concession has to bass. You can add bass later - you can't fix the midrange so we can buy some $400.00 JBL or Cerwin Vega that has bass but it sounds like a complete mess everywhere else.

And my complaint about one sub aside you can buy one and then get the proper stereo balance back later again with another identical subwoofer. In my set-up I could have two subwoofers sit between my stanmounts almost right under them - or have them in a corner right behind the standmounts.

You can complain about the pricing but we have to compare apples to apples of what is out there. I personally think the entire industry is grossly overpriced. My dad worked as a purchasing agent for a sheet metal manufacturer and also sold to car companies. They also sold a lot of the parts to GM specifically. Sheet metal is still relatively cheap - there is no more than 30 hours of total labour on ANY production Toyota no Tercel or their 60k model. What you pay for is their expertise and machinary to put it together. I can go get the parts and it might take 5 years fro me to build it because i would have to take some mechanics courses. Speakers and all other products are in the same boat.

Thanks to a very few companies like Audio Note who you can buy a kit from and save yourself 50-80% -- which you may still say is high - but B&W doesn't even offer the option.