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  1. #1
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    2 channel advice

    Hi everyone,

    I'm going away from HT and going back to two-channel. I currently have PSB sychrony two speakers and I'm trying to find the best amp and CD player to suit my needs.

    I've auditioned:

    NAD 375BEE and C565BEE or C545BEE (don't know which is the better CD player)

    and

    Audiolab 8200CDQ and 2 Audiolab MBs.

    As anyone auditioned these pieces? Should I go with something else. My price range is $2000-$3000.

    Any feedback would be most appreciated.

    Don't have as many audio shops as in the past. We've lost 2 in the past year. Big box stores have killed the market.

  2. #2
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    How about less than $2000?

    Check out the Mackie HR824mk2 which are servo-feedback controlled (and come with S-F amps). See Amazon.com

    Then check the OPPO 95 due this Feb. See OPPO Digital.

    Mackies.... 2 x $650 = $1300

    OPPO 95.... $600 (estimated)

    Total = less than $2000.

  3. #3
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    You could check out some of the gear at Grant Fidelity.

    They have numberous options and have well built and relatively affordable pieces.

    There's the Shengya A-206 integrated amp (200w/ch) for $1650 and their CD 327A for $570 or you could try the Rita-340 tube integrated (35w/ch Class A) that's supposed to be able to drive any speaker load and it's priced at $2300.

    There's more options as well but if interested I would give them a call/email to see what they would suggest.

    You can visit the website: http://grantfidelity.com

    Another option would be to visit the Audio Advisor site (at: http://www.audioadvisor.com/) and look at some of their offerings for integrated amps and CDPs. They often have great sales on demo, open box, refurbs, etc. You could check out some of their Vincent Audio integrateds, as well as other brands like NAD, Musical Fidelity, etc. They also have many great CDPs as well.

    If possible, try to audition as much gear as possible to get an idea of what you like and then you can start familiarizing yourself with different gear, which will help when comparisons are made and it will help narrow your decision.

    Good Luck and Happy listening.

  4. #4
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giofer69
    Hi everyone,

    I'm going away from HT and going back to two-channel. I currently have PSB sychrony two speakers and I'm trying to find the best amp and CD player to suit my needs.

    I've auditioned:
    ...

    As anyone auditioned these pieces? Should I go with something else. My price range is $2000-$3000.

    Any feedback would be most appreciated.

    Don't have as many audio shops as in the past. We've lost 2 in the past year. Big box stores have killed the market.
    There are a lot of possibilities available for $2-3k, although NAD wouldn't be high on my list.

    A pair that just happen to come to mind are the Cambridge 840A v.2 integrated amp, (here) ...



    And the Cambridge 840C CD player, (here) ...


  5. #5
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    I would suggest taking a look at Naim, you can get an integrated and CDP $3k for the pair. Don't worry about the power rating, 50 wpc of Naim power is like 100 of most others. I heard this set up driving a set of Totem and was amazed by what I heard for the money.

  6. #6
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    You have Rotel, Marantz, NAD (you already auditioned), Cambridge, Rega, Van Alstine... So many to pick from - not going to make your life any easier!

  7. #7
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    You could always hit the Audiogon market and look for some quality used gear. I have seen plenty on there that would definitely fit the bill and in your price range you could get something used but taken care of for your price that would have sold retail for a lot more.There is a Krell Kav 500i on there that is an absolute powerhouse(ask Mr. Peabody) and would definitely give you all the power and detail you would need and sold new for around $4500 bucks or more. That is just one example of what you can find on there. I just bought a Nuforce Preamp of Audiogon and am waiting on it to arrive Friday so I can play some quality tunes while I study for some tests coming up"blah". My advice is that if you find something new at a shop or onine dealer make sure to check Agon first to make sure there is not one on there being sold by someone that has the upgrade bug. You could get a lot more for your money that way. Heck I am getting my Pre at under half price and it has hardly any use on it. You could also check out some of the tube Integrateds out there that might add some warmth and emotion to your sound and even though their power ratings are less than solid state they will drive better than you think for their modest power output.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  8. #8
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Heres a link to a Cambridge 840A like listed above and it is the version 2 which has got good ratings and it is on the gon for less than new and is only 5 months old.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?intatran

    sorry look down the list on the equipment and you will find it I think it is selling for $1100 which is well within your price range.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  9. #9
    RGA
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    For the CD player I would recommend the Audio Note CD 1.1X or an external DAC from them. It uses the same transport mechanism that is used in the Bryston BCD-1 so while I have some misgivings on the build - it should be about as strong as anything in the price range. Nothing against the Cambridge Audio - I own an older one and my dealer here carries the Audio Note and the Cambridge Audio's - The Audio Note is more money and a mile better. It's not in the same stratosphere. I would put the bulk of the money there and find a second hand amp or something fairly reasonably price - the Grant Fidelity amps I have tried are excellent and huge bang for the dollar and built like a tank but for sane money. Their CD player was quite good as well - though again not in the same league as the Audio Note - but also a lot less money. http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/..._1.1x_01.shtml

    Bottom line to me is sometimes the notion of source first does actually enter into the equation. Meaning that a high quality source (CD player or turntable) makes massive improvements to the sound. I suspect this idea that was started by a company called LINN has been diluted somewhat as many CD player makers all use off the shelf parts and very similar designs thus making it somewhat difficult to detect improvements or differences from $300 players to $2,000 players and virtually impossible if listening under level matched blind conditions. I did this very thing several years ago with several CD players connected to a line level headphone amplifier and the dedicated expensive stable platter single disc players at $1500 versus a 100 disc cd changer and a few others at $300-$400 and the differences were at best small and I was not convinced that the pricey model sounded better. And the 100 disc Pioneer actually hung in so well that given all the features it had that the others didn't would have been my choice. So don't assume that it is automatically better because it has name brand cache or that because it looks big and impressive that it's better.

    Unfortunately, some of the names in this thread being given to you, such as Grant Fidelity and Audio Note will be somewhat difficult for you to find to be able to audition. Still Grant Fidelity offers a return policy and Audio Note dealers will often let you try the stuff at home. As do many other companies. Don't start throwing cash around based on advertising and reviews. Most of the best stuff out there is generally the stuff few people have tried and are generally from smallish outfits where people are building gear for the sound not the market share. It's highly frustrating but at CES I heard so many great sounding stuff from companies i had never heard of or had a vague awareness of. Take Heed Audio (Who?) but their stuff was affordable small and Solid State and it sounded absolutely terrific. I can't think of anything from most of the mainstream "hi-end" such as Nad or Cambridge Audio or Rotel that is in that class. (and I have owned or currently own NAD, Cambridge Audio, and Rotel). Although the Rotel stuff is quite good quite often lately and also represents some great values for the buck.

  10. #10
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    RGA, if you are using the analog outs there is a problem some where if you can't hear the difference between a $200.00 player and $2k player. Or, even a $1k player. I could easily discern a difference between the NAD 545 and Emotiva ERC-1 and they aren't that far apart in price. In fact, you contradict yourself, you start out by saying source first has merit, to paraphrase what I got from it, then go to say all CDP's sound the same except the glorious Audio Note.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I have a good freind that has the Synchrony 1's and I can tell you that they sound best with a lot of power. He use to run a Belle's Hot Rod amp with 125wpc and switched to a pair of Nuforce Model 9 monoblocks at I think 300wpc at 4ohms and the speakers really came alive and were much more dynamic with much better resolution. He is also using an older ARC hybrid tube preamp and a Marantz SA8001 SACD player.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  12. #12
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by giofer69
    Hi everyone,

    I'm going away from HT and going back to two-channel. I currently have PSB sychrony two speakers and I'm trying to find the best amp and CD player to suit my needs.

    I've auditioned:

    NAD 375BEE and C565BEE or C545BEE (don't know which is the better CD player)

    and

    Audiolab 8200CDQ and 2 Audiolab MBs.

    As anyone auditioned these pieces? Should I go with something else. My price range is $2000-$3000.

    Any feedback would be most appreciated.

    Don't have as many audio shops as in the past. We've lost 2 in the past year. Big box stores have killed the market.
    I'm not saying that your options are bad, but with a pretty decent budget like what you have, I'd want to audition a lot more products... If you can't find anymore HiFi shops that you can visit, then perhaps you should purchase from online sellers like:

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/
    or
    http://www.musicdirect.com/

    Both have good return policies and a decent variety of amps and CDPs to chose from...

    Also, do you have a DVD player from your old HT that you could salvage (or do you listen to a lot of music on your computer)? If so then you consider getting a DAC instead of a CDP (which would allow you allocate more funds towards your amp)...

  13. #13
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    RGA, if you are using the analog outs there is a problem some where if you can't hear the difference between a $200.00 player and $2k player. Or, even a $1k player. I could easily discern a difference between the NAD 545 and Emotiva ERC-1 and they aren't that far apart in price. In fact, you contradict yourself, you start out by saying source first has merit, to paraphrase what I got from it, then go to say all CDP's sound the same except the glorious Audio Note.
    Well Audio Note sounds different because unlike most stuff the design is actually different - not the same things in redressed cases. See the recent Lexicon is really an OPPO but for $3000 thread. It's the parts inside that make the difference and when 90% of them use the same Burr Brown chipset they sound like a Burr Brown CD player which is to say it sounds very digital. Even if the $2k model happens to have better transformers. I didnt say there was no difference - but in a blind level matched session the difference that were big because one can see a $2k sticker and impressive sexy blue lights while the other is a "so-called" rubbish $300 mega changer - those differences narrow quite a lot. Which isn't to say that the $2k model won't sound better - but I am largely unimpressed with what people go around saying is a big improvement - when usually the differences are not - and few of them ever bother to try and take their bias out at least some of the time.

    As for AN - sorry - but they make the best digital I have heard. And thus it is "glorious" because it doesn't bother to wow with the looks or 3 inches of brushed aluminum to add weight for the sole purpose of "seeming" to be high quality. Listening at Soundhounds to a variety of players from a variety of makers - the AN players actually separate themselves from the pack in significant ways. While the Bryston, Sim Audio, Classe, Rotel, Cambridge Audio while sounding a little different/better/worse did not present the degree of difference between them that the AN's possessed against them - So while I might conclude that the CA sounds better than the NAD and that the Classe sounds warmer than the Bryston etc the difference seem big until the AN was played and what seemed like big differences before were relegated to minor subtle differences. Kind of like comparing a bunch of oranges - one is bigger one is softer one looks healthier and then someone puts a watermelon on the table and suddenly the big difference between the 3-4 oranges pales in comparison to the difference that the watermelon brings.

    And the only thing that can account from that is that the AN is the only "unique" design out of those players using wildly different parts (and far less parts in the signal chain to get in the way) and overall concept. I don't really care to go further with this since it's pointless. I gave my advice for the price range, It's what I would buy in the price range and its the "only" thing I would buy in the price range. What he or others do is up to him and them.

  14. #14
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    Looks like we have TWO different designs.......

    The (NEW) OPPO 95:

    Features

    High Fidelity Audio Performance:

    •SABRE32 Reference Audio DAC - The DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter) is one of the most important components for digital audio playback. The SABRE32 Reference ES9018 from ESS Technology is the world’s best performing 32-bit audio DAC solution targeted for high-end consumer applications and professional studio equipment. With the ESS patented 32-bit Hyperstream™ DAC architecture and Time Domain Jitter Eliminator, the SABRE32 Reference DAC delivers an unprecedented DNR (Dynamic Range) of up to 135dB and THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise) of -120dB, the industry’s highest performance level that will satisfy even the most demanding audio enthusiast. The BDP-95 uses two ES9018 DAC chips - one for the 7.1-channel output, and another for the dedicated stereo output.

    •Toroidal Power Supply - Custom designed and built by Rotel, the toroidal power transformer offers superior inrush current and much lower exterior magnetic field over traditional laminated steel core transformers. The BDP-95's toroidal linear power supply provides a very clean and robust power source to the critical audio components.

    •Dedicated Stereo Output - The BDP-95 features a dedicated 2-channel analog output with specially optimized ES9018 DAC and output driving stages. Each output is driven by 4 DAC channels stacking together to achieve even greater audio performance.

    •XLR Balanced Stereo Output - The stereo output offers both XLR balanced and RCA single-ended connectors. The balanced output features a true differential signal path all the way from the DAC to the 3-pin XLR connector. By transmitting a pair of differential signals, the balanced output provides better common-mode noise rejection and improves signal quality.

    •7.1-Channel Analog Output - Individual analog 7.1-channel surround outputs are ideal to connect to a 7.1-channel or 5.1-channel surround sound system. Powered by the ES9018 SABRE32 Reference DAC, the BDP-95 delivers an incredible and immersive multi-channel soundstage.

    •Digital Optical and Coaxial Outputs - For simple and easy connection to more traditional A/V receivers, the BDP-95 features both optical and coaxial outputs for digital audio.

    •Dolby® TrueHD - Dolby TrueHD delivers lossless studio master quality audio designed specifically for high definition entertainment. The BDP-95 supports bit-stream output of Dolby TrueHD via its HDMI 1.4a output. It can also internally decode Dolby TrueHD into LPCM and output via HDMI or the 7.1ch analog audio output terminals. (Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus audio formats are also supported.).

    •DTS-HD Master Audio™ - DTS-HD Master Audio delivers an auditory experience that matches the lifelike images of high-definition video with up to 7.1 channels that are bit-for-bit identical to the studio master. The BDP-95 supports bit-stream output of DTS-HD Master Audio. It can also internally decode DTS-HD Master Audio and output via HDMI or the 7.1ch analog audio output terminals. (DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS Digital Surround are also supported.)

    Note - Although the BDP-95 shares the same playback platform as the BDP-93, it is designed from the ground up with a different chassis and many different components optimized for the analog audio performance. For this reason it is not possible to upgrade a BDP-93 to gain the BDP-95's enhanced audio performance by replacing parts.


    *********Diversified Media Support:

    •Blu-ray Disc - The high definition Blu-ray Disc™ format provides pristine video and audio quality for your home entertainment.
    •Blu-ray 3D – Experience high definition in all new dimensions. The BDP-95 supports the new Blu-ray 3D specifications (3D television and glasses required).
    •Netflix Instant Streaming Ready - Instantly watch movies streamed to your TV via the internet when connected to the OPPO BDP-95. (Unlimited membership required. US only)
    •Blockbuster on Demand - The newest releases instantly from your couch! (Service available in the United States only)
    •BD-Live & BonusVIEW - The BDP-95 supports BD-Live™ (Profile 2.0) and contains all necessary hardware - audio/video decoder, Ethernet and wireless networking, and 1GB of internal storage - for BD-Live. It also supports BonusVIEW (Profile 1.1) enabling "picture-in-picture" and audio features for viewing director or actor commentary while the main movie is playing.
    •DVD-Audio - The BDP-95 plays DVD-Audio and supports both stereo and multi-channel high resolution audio programs. Users can select whether to play the DVD-Audio or the DVD-Video portion of the disc.
    •SACD - The BDP-95 plays Super Audio CD (SACD) and supports both stereo and multi-channel high resolution audio programs. Users can select whether to output the DSD (Direct Stream Digital) signal in its native format over HDMI or convert it into high resolution PCM.
    •Additional Disc & Media Formats - Additional disc and file formats, such as DVD, audio CD, HDCD, Kodak Picture CD, AVCHD, MP4, DivX, MKV, FLAC, WAV and other audio/video/picture files on recorded discs, USB or eSATA drives can be played back on the BDP-95.


    *******Unparalleled Video Quality:


    •Qdeo by Marvell - The BDP-95 incorporates Marvell's Kyoto-G2 video processor with the second generation Qdeo™ technology. Qdeo video processing delivers a truly immersive viewing experience by rendering quiet natural video free of noise and artifacts for all types of content. For high-quality Blu-ray content, the BDP-95 faithfully reproduces the program just as the director intended; for DVD, the up-converted picture quality bridges the visual gap from your current DVD library to Blu-ray discs; for network streaming and user-encoded content at a variety of formats and quality, the BDP-95 offers enhancement options including video noise reduction, compression artifact reduction, intelligent color, contrast, detail and edge enhancements. More Info
    •DVD Up-Conversion - Per-pixel motion-adaptive de-interlacing and advanced scaling transforms the standard definition image on DVDs to near high definition video quality. Additional Qdeo video processing options help to deliver a clearer, smoother, and true-to-life picture free of noise and artifacts.
    •Full HD 1080p Output - The BDP-95 features user selectable video output resolutions, including 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and up to 1080p 50 or 60Hz.
    •True 24p™ Video - Many Blu-ray Discs are recorded at 24 frames per second, the same frame rate as the original movie's theatrical release. The BDP-95 can faithfully redeliver the original frames using 1080p 24Hz output (compatible display required) for smoother motion and a flicker-free, film-like home theater experience.
    •Source Direct Mode - For users who wish to use an external video processor, high-end audio/video receiver or display, the BDP-95 offers a "Source Direct" mode. The original audio/video content on the discs is sent out with no additional processing or alteration.
    •Multiple Zoom Modes - The BDP-95 supports multiple levels of aspect ratio control and image zooming, including a vertical stretch mode for customers with a 2.35:1 CIH (Constant Image Height) display system. A unique subtitle shift feature allows the user to move the subtitle up and down, making it possible to see all subtitle text when using a 2.35:1 CIH display. (Blu-ray discs with BD-Java may prohibit zoom operation.)
    •Dual HDMI v1.4a Outputs - Two assignable HDMI v1.4a outputs are provided to capitalize on the optimum audio and video settings to all old, new, and future HDMI televisions and receivers. With the option of full audio and video output to 2 displays; or dedicate one HDMI for audio, the other for video, it promotes a high quality video and audio for both signal paths. The BDP-95 supports 3D and Deep Color modes on both HDMI output ports.


    Ultimate Convenience:


    •Dual HDMI Outputs – The BDP-95 is equipped with two HDMI output ports and offers the most versatile installation options. You do not have to upgrade your A/V receiver to a 3D model in order to enjoy 3D. One HDMI output of the BDP-95 can be connected to a 3D TV and the other can be connected to a pre-3D HDMI v1.1-v1.3 A/V receiver. For projector users, you can connect one output to a projector for home theater use and the other to a TV for casual viewing. For a multi-room installation the BDP-95 can output audio and video to two 3D or 2D TVs simultaneously.
    •eSATA Port – The BDP-95 features an eSATA interface on its back panel. Customers can take advantage of this fast interface to play contents from external hard drives and enclosures which contain audio, video and photo files.
    •Wireless & Ethernet – Using the included wireless-N adapter or the built-in RJ45 Ethernet port, users will be able to interact with BD-Live content, watch instant streaming programs from provides such as Netflix, Blockbuster etc., playback contents stored on their home network, and keep the BDP-95 up-to-date with firmware release to ensure maximum Blu-ray compatibility.
    •Dual USB Ports - Two USB 2.0 high speed ports are provided, one on the front panel and one on the back. Users can enjoy high definition video, high resolution photos and music directly from their USB drives.
    •PAL/NTSC Conversion - The BDP-95 supports NTSC and PAL systems for both disc playback and video output. It can also convert content of one system for output in another. (Subject to DVD and BD region restrictions.)
    •Back-lit Remote Control - The BDP-95 comes with a fully back-lit remote control for ease of use in dark home theaters. With its ergonomic button layout and clear labeling, operating the Blu-ray Disc player is easier than ever.
    •World Power Supply - The BDP-95 features a world power supply that is compatible with AC power from all regions. Voltage range from 100V-120V and 200V-240V can be selected by flipping a switch on the back panel.
    •External IR - For integration into home theater control systems, the BDP-95 provides external IR IN port to use with an IR distribution system.
    •RS232 Control - For custom installation, the BDP-95 offers an RS232 control port with a rich control and communication protocol. Installers can easily program their favorite control systems to operate the BDP-95.
    •HDMI CEC - HDMI Consumer Electronics Control simplifies the home theater by allowing a single remote control to operate multiple devices.



    Specifications

    Designs and specifications are subject to change without notice. Disc Types* BD-Video, Blu-ray 3D, DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, AVCHD, SACD, CD, HDCD,
    Kodak Picture CD, CD-R/RW, DVD±R/RW, DVD±R DL, BD-R/RE
    BD Profile BD-ROM Version 2.4 Profile 5 for 3D (also compatible with Profile 2, Profile 1 Version 1.0 and 1.1)
    Internal Storage 2GB (Approximately 1GB available for BD-Live persistent storage. Actual storage varies due to system usage)
    Output Multi-Channel Analog Audio: 7.1ch, 5.1ch, or stereo
    Dedicated Stereo Analog Audio: XLR balanced and RCA single-ended
    Digital Audio: Coaxial, Optical
    HDMI Audio: Stereo, up to 7.1ch high-resolution PCM, up to 5.1ch DSD, bitstream or LPCM conversion of Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio.
    Analog Video: Composite, Component Video (Y/Pb/Pr, 480i/480p, 720p/1080i available for non-restricted content only)
    Digital Video: HDMI with HDCP (NTSC: 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p/1080p24, PAL 576i/576p/720p/1080i/1080p/1080p24)
    Video Characteristics Composite Video Amplitude: 1.0Vp-p (75Ω)
    Component Video: Y: 1.0Vp-p (75Ω), Pb/Pr: 0.7Vp-p (75Ω)
    Audio Characteristics** Frequency: 20Hz - 20kHz (±0.2dB), 20Hz - 96kHz (±1dB)
    Signal-to-Noise Ratio: >125dB (A-weighted, with auto-mute), >115dB (A-weighted, without auto-mute)
    THD+N: <0.0003% or -110dB (1kHz 192/24 at 0dBFS, 20kHz LPF), <0.002% or -95dB (1kHz 44.1/16 at 0dBFS, 20kHz LPF)
    Output Level: 2Vrms at 0dBFS (RCA), 4Vrms at 0dBFS (XLR)
    General Specification Power Supply: ~ 100V - 120V or 200V - 240V, 50/60Hz AC
    Power Consumption: 45W (0.5W Standby)
    Dimensions: 430mm x 311mm x 98mm, 16-7/8 x 12-1/4 x 4 inches
    Mass: 7.3kg / 16 lbs
    Operating Temperature 5°C - 35°C
    41°F - 95°F
    Operating Humidity 15% - 75%
    No condensation

  15. #15
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    And at the lower end of the price spectrum......

    We have, for $200

    http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_d1

    And you can roll your own tube / DAC / etc. with it....

    http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/...nd-info-thread

  16. #16
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mash
    Check out the Mackie HR824mk2 which are servo-feedback controlled (and come with S-F amps). See Amazon.com

    Then check the OPPO 95 due this Feb. See OPPO Digital.

    Mackies.... 2 x $650 = $1300

    OPPO 95.... $600 (estimated)

    Total = less than $2000.
    I'd probably be interesting in the Mackies for my desktop system, but I'm not sure why you recommended it to the OP... He already has speakers: PSB Synchrony 2 Speakers (costing almost 3X the price of the Active Monitors you mentioned - so it's doubtful he'd want to sell the PSBs)

  17. #17
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    I would not be surprised that OP would stay with his PSB Synchrony 2 Speakers

    But price is no guarantee of anything.

    The only way OP could ever know is to compare.

    I have not heard every cone-based speaker available- not in the slightest.

    But the cone-based speakers I have heard fell into two groups:

    Passive wherin the speaker is connected to an amp and the results simply are what they are. Some speaker-amp combinations produced results that are much better than the results produced by other speaker-amp combinations.

    Active, i.e. servo-feedback controlled powered speakers which produce a more consistant as well as a superior result.

    An example of the later would be the various flavors of servo-controlled subs offered by Velodyne and Paradigm, et al. These servosubs are invariably superior in linearity, bottom-end extension, and articulation when compared to otherwise similar passive (non-feedback controlled) subs. The same would apply to servo-controlled midrange cone transducers when compared to passive midrange cone transducers. This is what feedback control does.

  18. #18
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    Hi everyone,

    Thanks all for the advice. Yes I will be keeping my PSBs.

    I have a total of 3 audioshops here in Ottawa.

    1) sells: audio research, perreaux, audiolab, creek, marantz
    2) sells: cambridge, classe,krell, rotel
    3) sells: mcintosh, integra, anthem, arcam, bryston,nad

    Ajani: To answer your question: my DVD player is a Yamaha DVDS-700 (12 years old), built like a tank. The only DVD player I've owned.

    Feanor: thanks for the Cambridge idea

    Rotel: I find it pricey, and they have the RA-1520 but it's only rated at 60W.

    I have never bought on-line, so I don't know what I'm getting my self into without listening it before hand.

    Keep the suggestions coming, appreciate it.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Giofer69, I think that the Cambridge, Bryston and ARC units would be a good match with the PSB's. A Marantz SA8003 SACD or the newer model would be a good match as well. I would also consider a Bench Mark or PS Audio Digilink III DAC instead of a CDP. I can't comment on Krell, Creek, Perreaux or audiolab.

    If you are interested in a high power Hybrid Tube amp you should consider on of the Van Alstine FET Valve amps from avahifi.com. They have a 30 day return policy. Give Frank Van Alstine a call as he always answers his phone and loves to talk audio. He is on vacation right now and will be back in town next week. His gear does not have the bling factor but it is a lot of bang for the buck. Check out his forum at- http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=48

    http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=...26c75a882c4435

    The power ratings are at 8ohms and are double at 4ohms. The FET+ valve amps have been recently upgraded and are very dynamic and have a smooth warmer sound, very open and transparent sound. Bass is very punchy and fast. Treble is crisp and clear.

    The Benchmark DAC, Cambridge Audio 840c and 740c and Rega Apollo CDP's would be excellent mates to the AVA gear. By the way, I owned both the 840c and 740c. They sounded very similar. I'm not sure the extra $600 for the 840c is worth it unless you want true XLR outputs and the ability to use it as a DAC for other digital gear. Audioadvisor is running a sale on the 740c right now.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  20. #20
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mash
    Active, i.e. servo-feedback controlled powered speakers which produce a more consistant as well as a superior result.

    An example of the later would be the various flavors of servo-controlled subs offered by Velodyne and Paradigm, et al. These servosubs are invariably superior in linearity, bottom-end extension, and articulation when compared to otherwise similar passive (non-feedback controlled) subs. The same would apply to servo-controlled midrange cone transducers when compared to passive midrange cone transducers. This is what feedback control does.
    Sorry but nope - I have heard top of the line Active speakers from Genelec, ATC, PMC and while a powered sub sounds better than non powered subs in my experience (although it should be said that few bother to make passive subs at a high level so who knows how good they could be), many passive high quality speakers sound better than those active loudspeakers. Those active loudspeakers also sound a lot better than many passive ones but the blanket statement is absurd either way.

  21. #21
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    The concept of feedback control is not overly complicated........

    1. I did NOT write about POWERED speakers.

    2. I wrote about SERVO-FEEDBACK CONTROLLED speakers.

    3. All servo-feedback controlled speakers are ALSO powered speakers.

    4. All powered speakers ARE NOT servo-feedback controlled speakers.

    5. The speakers you have referred to are MERELY powered speakers.

    An example of feedback control is when we are driving our car down a road and we see that the traffic light we are approaching has changed to RED. We lift our foot off the gas and think about using the brakes. The light then turns GREEN so we put our foot back on the gas. We, as the driver, are providing feedback control to the car.

    Our car is analogous to a powered speaker that lacks feedback control, while we as the driver provide the necessary feedback control. Without us as drivers being inside the car and providing our feedback control, the car is not controlled and therefor cannot operate under its own power safely.

    Loudspeakers are kinda like this.
    Last edited by Mash; 02-05-2011 at 08:15 AM.

  22. #22
    RGA
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    What you say is correct but it still doesn't mean that a servo feedback controlled speaker is superior to those not using it. Since most manufacturers that make the world's best speakers don't incorporate this. There are reasons. The one that I have heard good things about from ears I trust is from a company called Meyer - but the speakers are about $50,000. But even here it is more about control at very high SPLs which really isn't a need for most audiophiles as listening at 140db is kind of insane (even at peaks) and you won't be an audiophile for long listening at those levels. And here it is still viewed more as a studio monitor and not necessarily a relaxing home audio speaker.

    To say it is a superior sounding product simply by virtue of it being Servo-Feedback Controlled is silly - or that it will be superior to well established speakers not using it. Almost as silly as saying something is superior strictly because the drivers are perfect pistonic drivers, T-lines, or use long throw woofers - and that has been said before by several top flight engineers, or that it needs to be a planar/electrostat to exhibit the best distortion and frequency numbers (which clearly isn't the case). This also applies to the notion of control of woofer cones. External amplifiers have every bit the "control" of woofer and tweeter drivers that active speakers have - provided the amp and speaker match is a good one and the design of the speaker. My non servo speakers are around .2% distortion full bandwidth at 100db and only rises to .6% at levels around 108db and then only at frequencies in the bass. Since .6% is no more audible than .2% the numbers are meaningless especially when the ear is less able to detect anomolies at those kinds of levels. And they cost a tenth of what the Meyer's cost.

    This feedback approach is not desirable in amplifiers and has been blind tested where the makers of the best feedback amplifiers ended up choosing a competing much cheaper non feedback amplifier (and a tube no amp no less over their top solid state designs - shudder). http://www.stereophile.com/reference/70/index.html

    I am not convinced that based on experience that one isolated aspect of technology in a speaker or amplifier will make it better - though with amplifiers my experience has been that the best sound comes from non feedback designs. I have heard less of this in loudspeakers because very few loudspeaker makers do it.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by giofer69
    Hi everyone,

    I'm going away from HT and going back to two-channel. I currently have PSB sychrony two speakers and I'm trying to find the best amp and CD player to suit my needs.

    I've auditioned:

    NAD 375BEE and C565BEE or C545BEE (don't know which is the better CD player)

    and

    Audiolab 8200CDQ and 2 Audiolab MBs.

    As anyone auditioned these pieces? Should I go with something else. My price range is $2000-$3000.

    Any feedback would be most appreciated.

    Don't have as many audio shops as in the past. We've lost 2 in the past year. Big box stores have killed the market.
    "Big box" stores don't tend to sell what would be thought of as audiophile gear.
    TWO CHANNEL audiophilia is a rapidly shrinking market, sadly. But the good news
    is that most amps and preamps are pretty good. Go for features. AND i wouldnt touch
    an amp without a toroidal transformer. AND DIGITAL AMPS are too new, stick to what
    works and is tried and true in the amp dept. AND A SERVER hooked up to a decent DAC,
    one without a tube stuck in it to color the sound.
    Speakers are the most important thing, and looks like you have a pretty nice pair already.
    GOOD LUCK.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

  24. #24
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    If you have a Sim Audio dealer in the area you may want to hear the I-1 and CD-1 combo. I have heard both together and they make wonderful music together and are made in Canada.

    Bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

  25. #25
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    I was not discussing amplifier internal feedback- this is a very different subject.

    Most distortion testing utilizes the input of sine waves which are much easier for "pistonic", i.e. cone transducers, to reproduce when compared to the resulting cone motion required to reproduce the sudden (transient) thwak from a just-struck bass drum head.

    The pistons in a piston engine also move "up and down" as a result of the sinewave input induced by the eccentric crank on the turning crankshaft. This is why piston engines can last a very long time. In both cases the sinewave motion means that at the end of motion in one direction the cone (or piston) slows gently to a momentary stop before beginning to accelerate in the opposite direction. Note the word "genltly". If you carefully examine a sinewave (or cosine wave) you should see this quasi-stop in motion at the tops & bottoms of the sinewave.

    The distortion magnitudes caused when transient signals, such as those required to reproduce the sudden (transient) thwak from a just-struck bass drum head, are hard to measure because transient signals are, well, transient.

    "My non servo speakers are around .2% distortion full bandwidth at 100db and only rises to .6% at levels around 108db and then only at frequencies in the bass. Since .6% is no more audible than .2% the numbers are meaningless especially when the ear is less able to detect anomolies at those kinds of levels."

    Mr. Futterman measured the harmonic distortion in my monoblocks as 0.2%, and I suspect that the harmonic distortion in the ARC tube amp was very similar in magnitude. However, I clearly preferred the Futterman amp [before I even KNEW it was a Futterman amp] just as much as I intensely disliked the ARC amp, both driving the same 8-ohm loudspeaker. And you would suggest that I could not possibly hear 0.2% distortion?

    I am not interested in how much a particular piece of audio gear costs or how exaulted its reputation supposedly is, but rather I am solely interested in how closely it can replicate what I hear at concerts and recitals. If I can remember what Andre Segovia "should" sound like from a concert I had heard 20 years prior, I have every confidence in my ability to decide how well a speaker, amp, etc. can replicate what I hear at concerts and recitals.

    Speaker servo-feedback control entails subtracting a signal that represents the transducer's output from the preamp input signal, inverting that difference signal, and adding that inverted signal to the preamp signal. This correction signal will include an amplifier-generated component and a transducer-generated component. Both components are canceled out by the feedback process. This is audibly beneficial when transients are reproduced- and transients seem to occur most of the time in music.

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