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  1. #1
    Kam
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    Not until we are LOST do we begin to understand ourselves.

    And so we go back to the beginning... Season One... the whole enchilada from Jack's eye opening to Jack's eye closing.


    And all credit to HDT for the Season One thread title, I thought it very fitting...
    /create

  2. #2
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I'll start off with a few comments - I watched the first 2 hrs (well, less commercials - wooo!)...I'm amazed at how many things I can pick up on that were totally missed the first time watching - stuff you wouldn't know to look for or wouldn't pick up on yet. A lot of seeds were planted in the pilot!!! There was a TON of info dropped.

    Jack saves Rose, Charlie sneaks into the bathroom for nefarious purposes, Smokey, Polar Bears, the distress signals, Locke's creepiness, Kate's drama, Sawyer's letter, Rousseau's dead friends...

    There can be no doubt in anyone's mind that the plot and charcter concepts were thought out well in advance - I think the there's an interview in the special features that claims 6 or 7 seasons worth...going by memory though.

    Favourite quote: "Guys, where are we?"

  3. #3
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Kex, I completely agree with you. I was also surprised at how much foreshadowing there was in the pilot. And how much I had forgotten. I remember reading, after the finale, that the creators always knew that the show would begin and end with Jack’s eye. To me, that means that this show was always about Jack and, therefore, it makes sense that the show ended the way it did…with Jack’s death, his need to save things and making the ultimate sacrifice to do it, and his coming to terms with his life and death in the church. It may seems as though I’m digressing but I think it took rewatching that initial eye opening at the start of the pilot for me to come to this realization. My own eye-opening as the case may be.

    There were so many details that I had forgotten or remembered differently. For example, the scene with Locke smiling with the orange peel in his mouth. I’ve probably seen that picture posted a hundred times since 2004 (eek!), but I always thought that he was directing that smile at Walt. I was shocked to see that it was Kate!

    And speaking of Walt, he looked much younger than I remember. I don’t know why I was thinking that he was, like 12, but he was only 9. And I’d forgotten just how awkward the relationship between Walt and Michael was.

    That classic scene between Walt and Locke, of course, resonated with me this time round…”Two sides; Light and Dark”.

    Oh if they only knew!

  4. #4
    Kam
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    The entire opening sequence, with such a parallel to the end sequence really was fantastic.

    After his eye pops open, and he sees Vince and then runs through the bamboo to the beach... contrasted with the finale.

    And the reveal on the chaos going on in the beach, was just fantastic all the details of that scene, I forgot how great it all was, what a way to open.

    Although, when that one guy got sucked into the engine, my first thought was... "Well... I guess Jacob's scratching his name off the wall."

    /create

  5. #5
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam

    Although, when that one guy got sucked into the engine, my first thought was... "Well... I guess Jacob's scratching his name off the wall."

    We should keep a tally of how many losties that aren't featured characters actually survive to the end.

    Seeing Boone and Shannon took me back - they didn't last long, did they? Kind of a crappy life for them.

  6. #6
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    We should keep a tally of how many losties that aren't featured characters actually survive to the end.
    Between the masacre at the Temple and Smokey's mass killing of everyone from the Ajira flight, doesn't everyone on the island pretty much bite it before the end? What happened to Rose and Bernard. I don't remember, did they survive? They may be the only ones.

  7. #7
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Between the masacre at the Temple and Smokey's mass killing of everyone from the Ajira flight, doesn't everyone on the island pretty much bite it before the end? What happened to Rose and Bernard. I don't remember, did they survive? They may be the only ones.
    You forgot the wicked flaming arrows! Hmmm, yeah, you're probably right. Kill count is up there with Total Recall.

  8. #8
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    You forgot the wicked flaming arrows! Hmmm, yeah, you're probably right. Kill count is up there with Total Recall.
    So one thing i wasn't clear about, was everyone on that plane a potential candidate? We only saw Jacob touching several of the Losties, but other names were crossed out on the wall that they didn't show Jacob touching.
    /create

  9. #9
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    We should keep a tally of how many losties that aren't featured characters actually survive to the end.

    Seeing Boone and Shannon took me back - they didn't last long, did they? Kind of a crappy life for them.
    but they both found their redemption on the island. so they got that goin' for 'em.
    /create

  10. #10
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam
    but they both found their redemption on the island. so they got that goin' for 'em.
    That's what we should be looking for...a common denominator to people's death. Did they all make peace with their personal demon's before dying?

    I don't think that everyone on the plane was a candidate. I think that some were just casualties for the greater good (or what would be the greater good in Jacob's mind). Jacob had been looking for his replacement for a very long time. Remember that according to a conversation with the MIB on the breach, Jacob is the one who brought the Black Rock to the island. So I think that a lot of those names had been crossed out a long time ago.

    Finding the right candidate is, apparently, a lot like losing your car keys. They're always in the last place you look.

  11. #11
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    That's what we should be looking for...a common denominator to people's death. Did they all make peace with their personal demon's before dying?

    I don't think that everyone on the plane was a candidate. I think that some were just casualties for the greater good (or what would be the greater good in Jacob's mind). Jacob had been looking for his replacement for a very long time. Remember that according to a conversation with the MIB on the breach, Jacob is the one who brought the Black Rock to the island. So I think that a lot of those names had been crossed out a long time ago.

    Finding the right candidate is, apparently, a lot like losing your car keys. They're always in the last place you look.
    and the other thing is who smokey kills and why? the pilot being taken but jack and kate weren't. I wonder if there's a way to figure out what the rules are, if any, for who smokey can kill.
    /create

  12. #12
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam
    and the other thing is who smokey kills and why? the pilot being taken but jack and kate weren't. I wonder if there's a way to figure out what the rules are, if any, for who smokey can kill.
    Think he can kill anyone but Jacob or his successors, right? He whooped Eko and most of Jacob's temple lackies some good...

  13. #13
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    That's what we should be looking for...a common denominator to people's death. Did they all make peace with their personal demon's before dying?
    Nikki and Paulo didn't...poor Nikki and Paulo...
    Can't wait for Expose to start this fall!

  14. #14
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Think he can kill anyone but Jacob or his successors, right? He whooped Eko and most of Jacob's temple lackies some good...
    ah that's right, from what jack was arguing in the submarine, smokey can't directly kill anyone who's a candidate.... i guess the pilot wasn't a candidate then.

    will be interesting to see all the smokey appearances as other people now that we know it's him.
    /create

  15. #15
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam
    ah that's right, from what jack was arguing in the submarine, smokey can't directly kill anyone who's a candidate.... i guess the pilot wasn't a candidate then.

    will be interesting to see all the smokey appearances as other people now that we know it's him.
    Not only can Smokey not kill them, but they can't die until the Island is done with them (and what does that mean?!). Michael couldn't die, even though he tried to kill himself, until the frieghter blew up. Jack figured out that he couldn't die and when Richard lit the wick to blow up the Black Rock with him and Jack in it, Jack just sat there..knowing that nothing would happen.

  16. #16
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    HOLY CRAP!!!!!

    Have you guys watched episode three yet? At the very end of the episode, they do a vignette of the main characters to the song Wash Away. The last clip of this starts at the back of Locke's head and pans around to his face. Michael and Walt are sharing a moment and as the camera pans around you can see Locke watching them very intently. At this point the music changes to something very ominous...and as the camera comes around to Locke's full face, we hear a very short clip of what we now can recognize as Smokey's clicking noise!

    I know that we aren't supposed to discuss this until Wednesday, but I wanted to mention this to you so that can watch for it.

    So...is Smokey already Locke at this point? I can't see any other reason for the clicking sound and it would explain why he doesn't need the wheelchair.

    Now that we've seen the 12 minute coda where Hurley and Ben talk to Walt about "a job", it would also explain why Locke/Smokey gets to close to Walt. Maybe he senses that Walt is the real candidate.

    Okay, on to episode four.

  17. #17
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    HOLY CRAP!!!!!

    Have you guys watched episode three yet? At the very end of the episode, they do a vignette of the main characters to the song Wash Away. The last clip of this starts at the back of Locke's head and pans around to his face. Michael and Walt are sharing a moment and as the camera pans around you can see Locke watching them very intently. At this point the music changes to something very ominous...and as the camera comes around to Locke's full face, we hear a very short clip of what we now can recognize as Smokey's clicking noise!

    I know that we aren't supposed to discuss this until Wednesday, but I wanted to mention this to you so that can watch for it.

    So...is Smokey already Locke at this point? I can't see any other reason for the clicking sound and it would explain why he doesn't need the wheelchair.

    Now that we've seen the 12 minute coda where Hurley and Ben talk to Walt about "a job", it would also explain why Locke/Smokey gets to close to Walt. Maybe he senses that Walt is the real candidate.

    Okay, on to episode four.
    HEY! You're cheating!!!

    Ha ha...I'm having a hard time keeping it to 2 shows - especially during a long weekend.
    Thanks for the heads-up - I'll keep an eye out for it.

  18. #18
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    HOLY CRAP!!!!!

    Have you guys watched episode three yet? At the very end of the episode, they do a vignette of the main characters to the song Wash Away. The last clip of this starts at the back of Locke's head and pans around to his face. Michael and Walt are sharing a moment and as the camera pans around you can see Locke watching them very intently. At this point the music changes to something very ominous...and as the camera comes around to Locke's full face, we hear a very short clip of what we now can recognize as Smokey's clicking noise!

    I know that we aren't supposed to discuss this until Wednesday, but I wanted to mention this to you so that can watch for it.

    So...is Smokey already Locke at this point? I can't see any other reason for the clicking sound and it would explain why he doesn't need the wheelchair.

    Now that we've seen the 12 minute coda where Hurley and Ben talk to Walt about "a job", it would also explain why Locke/Smokey gets to close to Walt. Maybe he senses that Walt is the real candidate.

    Okay, on to episode four.
    now there's an interesting theory... but I'm not sure if Smokey has taken over Locke that early, or it's just a premonition of what is going to happen. Since we see Locke in quite a few situations after this where he was very "Locke"-ish, or at least had no reason to keep the facade of being Locke up, as in pounding on the Hatch door and begging for a reason that comes much later.

    i figured Smokey took over Locke when his dead body returned to the island, and then was able to impersonate him?
    /create

  19. #19
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    HEY! You're cheating!!!

    Ha ha...I'm having a hard time keeping it to 2 shows - especially during a long weekend.
    Thanks for the heads-up - I'll keep an eye out for it.
    ditto, is one a week good? i haven't seen episode 4 yet.
    /create

  20. #20
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam
    now there's an interesting theory... but I'm not sure if Smokey has taken over Locke that early, or it's just a premonition of what is going to happen. Since we see Locke in quite a few situations after this where he was very "Locke"-ish, or at least had no reason to keep the facade of being Locke up, as in pounding on the Hatch door and begging for a reason that comes much later.

    i figured Smokey took over Locke when his dead body returned to the island, and then was able to impersonate him?
    After I watched episode four I have to agree with you. Locke is not Smokey yet. But Smokey has latched onto Locke, I think. In epi 4, we see Locke's first meeting with "the monster", but the audience hasn't yet seen "the monster", we only know that Locke saw it by the expression on his face...and he only looked scared for a second, then he looked kinda smug ,or satisfied perhaps. Like he's found his destiny.

    Back to my comment about the end of episode three. What amazing forshadowing. And I love that you would only understand the sound and its significance on a second viewing. It's kind of like an undiscovered easter egg that is right in front of you, only you don't know enough to find it.

    I have more notes from viewing the two episodes, but they're at home and I don't remember what they are. I'll post again later tonight.

  21. #21
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam
    ditto, is one a week good? i haven't seen episode 4 yet.
    I think what Kex meant is that he's having trouble watching ONLY two episodes a week and that he would like to watch more.

  22. #22
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Yeah 2 a week is no problem for me - I put some on my iPod and laptop when travelling. I could easily do double - but not if you all can't, I like your insights too much.

    I wonder when Michael was talking about looking for Vincent, did Walt make the rain stop instantly with his Jedi mind tricks? Seemed too convenient...Also - weird knowing that Sun speaks English so early. Loved the scene when Michael told her he was going hunting and asked Sun to look after Walt!

  23. #23
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Yeah, it is kind of neat to know that Sun speaks English and understands everyone.

    Here are the notes from episode 4 that I couldn't remember...

    Jack sees Christian (only we don't know yet that it's Jack's father !) and follows him into the jungle. Only what he finds is Locke dragging a dead boar. Now that we know (or can infer) that it's Smokey in Christian's body, doesn't it seem symbolic that Christian goes into the jungle and Locke comes out?

    We also know that Locke saw the monster. Michael asks Locke if he saw it and Locke lies and says no. Why does he lie? Is it because he's made a connection with Smokey? Ecko connected with Smokey but it led to his death. Each time that Locke meets Smokey, Locke is not afraid. Ecko was afraid. I think that in Locke's case, he feels secure and comfortable with Smokey.

  24. #24
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Yeah, it is kind of neat to know that Sun speaks English and understands everyone.

    Here are the notes from episode 4 that I couldn't remember...

    Jack sees Christian (only we don't know yet that it's Jack's father !) and follows him into the jungle. Only what he finds is Locke dragging a dead boar. Now that we know (or can infer) that it's Smokey in Christian's body, doesn't it seem symbolic that Christian goes into the jungle and Locke comes out?

    We also know that Locke saw the monster. Michael asks Locke if he saw it and Locke lies and says no. Why does he lie? Is it because he's made a connection with Smokey? Ecko connected with Smokey but it led to his death. Each time that Locke meets Smokey, Locke is not afraid. Ecko was afraid. I think that in Locke's case, he feels secure and comfortable with Smokey.
    i was thinking of how soon Smokey got into Locke, and if it was from the moment of the crash. When the Island "heals" Locke's paralysis, is that Jacob or Smokey doing the healing?

    Flash forward to Sayid getting dunked in the pool and having an evil inside him that is growing and will take him over. Could that be what Locke had from the beginning? That Locke's "rebirth" on the Island came at a cost, that Smokey had gotten into him and was slowly taking him over?

    Also, the whole Walt storyline still confuses me. That's the one that really feels like the hanging chad of the entire series.
    /create

  25. #25
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Sorry guys, I had a busy week and didn't have a chance to watch episodes 5 and 6, I'll catch up over the weekend.

    But on another note, I did catch the season premiere of Survivor last night and there's a contestant named Benry. No shit, his full name is Ben Henry. http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor/cast/21/benry

    I wonder if he's a Lost fan?

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