A DVD REVIEW: JURASSIC PARK III - COLLECTOR'S EDITION (Universal)

[bjornb17]

It's rare that a sequel better the original but there are numerous examples IMO where the sequel is better than the original: Superman 2, Godfather 2, Spiderman 2, Batman Begins(basically #5), Empire Strikes Back.

Jurassic Park has it tough because the paper thin idea seems forced in sequels.

I agree with you on your hre.

With Star Wars, i think Episodes 5 and 6 and both better than 4, but 5 is better than 6.
And with the prequels, Ep. 3 is the best of them all, and 2 is the worst.

I got the special edition trilogy (Eps 4-6) and watched them the other day. I really like the remastered sound and most of the new stuff in them, except the ending to Ep 6 where he replaced the old Annikan with the one from the prequel. That makes no sense. It's sort of funny to see it actually.

[Lexmark3200]

It's rare that a sequel better the original but there are numerous examples IMO where the sequel is better than the original: Superman 2, Godfather 2, Spiderman 2, Batman Begins(basically #5), Empire Strikes Back.

Jurassic Park has it tough because the paper thin idea seems forced in sequels.

I'll give you these as better sequel examples:

Superman II
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Spider Man 2 WAS NOT better than the original
Jurassic Park: The Lost World WAS NOT better than the original, but the original DID NOT have paper thin ideas, it needs to be visualized through Michael Chriton's mind

Some AWFUL Sequels Have Been:

Grease 2
Exorcist II: The Heretic
2Fast2Furious

[RGA]

Michael Chriton's mind is in the book -- the film is a pale imitation which leaves out the brains.

Spiderman 2 is better -- not a one dimensional villain in this one and more of a romantic film. I did like the original one as well but Spiderman 2 In my view was best picture material -- too bad it's based on a comic book because it has some heart and a brain. I liked the entire story of Peter Parker trying to cope with paying the rent trying to go to school and holding down a job while saving everyone and how it stresses him out and tires him down and not being able to tell the girl he loves that he loves her. Brilliant film. The first one had the onerous job of telling us the Spiderman story which most everyone knows and setting up the story. They do it very well and it's very close ***1/2 / *****

Exorcist Heretic was utter crap, JP was far better than its sequels.

I don't usually expect much from sequels. If it hangs in there with the original it's nice. Terminator 2 was a solid follow-up as was Lethal Weapon 2 -- many would make the case that both were better than their original film. I disagree but i could certainly understand why people would feel that way on these two.

I also liked Aliens better than Alien. Hmm maybe I'll have to rethink the sequal -- it's part 3 that usally falls apart hopefully that isn't the case with Spidey3

[Lexmark3200]

"Michael Chriton's mind is in the book -- the film is a pale imitation which leaves out the brains."

I dont personally feel Spielberg left out too many of Chriton's brains after A/B-ing the book and motion picture sequentially and multiple, multiple times. I still think the original Park is a great piece of filmmaking, and like I said, I am proud to have both the Collector's Edition version of that disc sitting very near the DTS version of Jaws (because my collection is in alphabetic order).

"Spiderman 2 is better"

Not to me it wasnt, and Im a diehard follower of the comic; the first film just had something the second was lacking ---- dont get me wrong ---- Spidey 2 was absolutely awesome, but the VERY FIRST thing I said to my friends and my ex at the time when leaving the theater on opening night was "I liked the first one better"....there was something better developed in the first film with Parker taking on the Goblin, and while the fight sequences with Doc Ock were downright awesome, especially on the subway train, I think the end fight with the Goblin was more nerve-wretching in the original film. Either way, Raimi made two deliciously great comic adaptations, BOTH YEARS AHEAD of the disaster that was THE PUNISHER with John Travolta (in just about his WORST role) and Thomas Jane (of DEEP BLUE SEA); that had to be the worst comic to film adaptation since the first Captain America disaster.....remember that? Im waiting to see what Superman Returns, Fantastic Four, and supposedly Iron Man are going to be like.


"not a one dimensional villain in this one and more of a romantic film"

The romance is EXACTLY what could have been left out of this film --- this is a comic story, and although Mary Jane Watson was a vital part of Parker's life, the scenes where Kirsten Dunst are in the film with her constant going back and forth about does she love Peter, will she love Peter, will she marry Peter....will she marry this astronaut shmuck....I mean, this whole unnecessary sub plotting slowed this sequel to a CRAWL in many instances, and made me antsy to just get to the next Doc Ock fight sequence.




"I did like the original one as well but Spiderman 2 In my view was best picture material -- too bad it's based on a comic book because it has some heart and a brain. I liked the entire story of Peter Parker trying to cope with paying the rent trying to go to school and holding down a job while saving everyone and how it stresses him out and tires him down and not being able to tell the girl he loves that he loves her. Brilliant film. The first one had the onerous job of telling us the Spiderman story which most everyone knows and setting up the story."

Well, thats what a FIRST film is supposed to do --- not introduce multiple PREQUELS (a la Exorcist The Beginning and Batman Begins) to do the explaining; THATS not proper motion picture making if you ask ANY film historian.

"Exorcist Heretic was utter crap, JP was far better than its sequels."

You got that right, Jack.....almost called the "worst film of all time" is John Boorman's Exorcist II: The Heretic; I am a diehard Exorcist fan and STILL have not put and WILL NEVER put this disc in my collection. Its a travesty to motion picture making.

"I don't usually expect much from sequels"

Sometimes they work, as definitely in the case of Star Trek II and Superman II.....

"I also liked Aliens better than Alien. Hmm maybe I'll have to rethink the sequal -- it's part 3 that usally falls apart hopefully that isn't the case with Spidey3"

God, Im DYING for Spidey 3 already! Who do you think the villian is going to be? I think its either going to be Harry Osborne as THE HOBGOBLIN, as they set the end of 2 up to suggest, or The Lizard.....do you have any info on who the next villian is? The whole internet seems to be tight-lipped about it even though its supposedly already shooting.....

[cam]

I'll give you these as better sequel examples:

Superman II
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Spider Man 2 WAS NOT better than the original
Jurassic Park: The Lost World WAS NOT better than the original, but the original DID NOT have paper thin ideas, it needs to be visualized through Michael Chriton's mind

Some AWFUL Sequels Have Been:

Grease 2
Exorcist II: The Heretic
2Fast2Furious

I have to disagree with 2 fast 2 furious being an awful sequel, both my wife, 2 kids, and I all equally thought the plot and the acting stunk in the first one. The story was more enjoyable in the second one and also looking at Eva Mendes was, well, you know.

[Lexmark3200]

I have to disagree with 2 fast 2 furious being an awful sequel, both my wife, 2 kids, and I all equally thought the plot and the acting stunk in the first one. The story was more enjoyable in the second one and also looking at Eva Mendes was, well, you know.

Oh, believe me, coming from someone who was once VERY much into the import car racing scene (and I was the previous Associate Editor of Car Sound & Performance Magazine where we covered all the HOT IMPORT NIGHTS events which inspired the first film) Rob Cohen's original was LIGHT YEARS ahead of the sequel in terms of dealing with the material ---- you're not getting that Cohen had a handle on the car racing scene that was sorely missed by John Singleton, who had NO idea what he was doing behind the camera for the sequel --- Cohen captured that LIFESTYLE of the cars and girls so perfectly well, mixed in with yes, HORRIBLE amateur acting and performances and a stupid plot; but you wanna talk stupid plots? In the sequel we have Cole Hauser playing some rough and tough Miami drug lord hiring drivers to steal for him or whatever? And THIS was entertaining? This shouldnt have been a sequel to The Fast and the Furious, it should have been a THIRD Bad Boys film.......

I WILL however, agree with Eva Mendes......hotter than any other chicks we had to look at in the first film, except for maybe that party scene at Vin Diesel's crib, where we see those two chicks making out.....remember that? Pretty hot.....and Mendes in that white bikini in the sequel.....oh my god......

[Kam]

God, Im DYING for Spidey 3 already! Who do you think the villian is going to be? I think its either going to be Harry Osborne as THE HOBGOBLIN, as they set the end of 2 up to suggest, or The Lizard.....do you have any info on who the next villian is? The whole internet seems to be tight-lipped about it even though its supposedly already shooting.....

It's in pre-production right now last i heard, with a summer 2007 release date. Rumor mills are definitely floating all over and they're being very secretive as to plot and especially the villains, but from what i've found, it's anywhere from 2 to 4 new villains. And they've already laid the groundwork for several to show up. Thomas Haden Church is one villain, and Topher Grace is in the cast so odds are he could be a villain if they dont make Harry the Hobgoblin in this next one. Topher could be Eddie Brock since they havent shown him yet (i dont think, i thought JJJ just mentioned him), just talked about him and would make an interesting casting choice since he is very similar to Tobey. Plus the 'astronaut schmuck' will become the wolf-man and the way Raimi's been handling the JJJ and parker relationship, this might be something he'd want to add, especially the way he did the peter/harry/greengoblin triangle.

I've also heard Kraven as a possible villain, BUT... am hoping THC is not going to be him. The latest rumor seems to be Sandman will be the next villain.

The other villains already mentioned in the first two:
Doc Conners - The Lizard
Eddie Brock - Venom
Harry Osbourne - Hobgoblin

And have to disagree about the romance being left out, especially if you followed the comic book. I havent in the last decade or so, but growing up I did, and the MJ-Peter romance was an integral part to the story and even their first 'adventure' post honeymoon, and how it effects Peter, a perfect example is "Kraven's Last Hunt", is one of the best comic stories ever, IMO, close to Miller's Dark Knight all with the romance integral to the story. This is also what separates Spiderman from most of the other comic book stories.

just some pennies.
peace
k2

[RGA]

The spiderman villains are not terribly interesting to me which is why I was impressed by the dimensional character of Doc Ock

From the cartoon i liked the villain that took spiderman to some alternate dimension and was weird looking...but I forget the name. Him OCK and Goblin are the only ones that really stood out to me.

Batman had the colourful villains - but the movies other than Batman Begins suck. And interestingly Batman Begins may have the weakest villain in terms of writing and screen time. Imagine what could have been. Liam was the real villain - and no need for a mask.

The next Batman will have the Joker apparently.

[Lexmark3200]

The spiderman villains are not terribly interesting to me which is why I was impressed by the dimensional character of Doc Ock

From the cartoon i liked the villain that took spiderman to some alternate dimension and was weird looking...but I forget the name. Him OCK and Goblin are the only ones that really stood out to me.

Batman had the colourful villains - but the movies other than Batman Begins suck. And interestingly Batman Begins may have the weakest villain in terms of writing and screen time. Imagine what could have been. Liam was the real villain - and no need for a mask.

The next Batman will have the Joker apparently.

Wow, alot of good inside information there about the possible villians for Spidey 3.....and although I am fan of the comic as well, I dont agree (still) that the romance shenanigans should be SO sensationalized in the motion picture adaptations.....any time Kirsten Dunst is on the screen I fall asleep during a Spider Man picture; I mean I KNOW Mary Jane Watson is an insanely INTEGRAL part of the story line, Im just saying the parts where they are wondering if they are in love with each other back and forth and back and forth in Part 2 just had me grabbing my remote and fast forwarding to the next fight scene between Doc Ock and Spidey.

Oh, I disagree with what you are saying here about Spidey's villians --- these matchups are awesome compared to the way Batman fought HIS villians in the motion pictures in my opinion; I mean, the Batman franchise was great until Keaton (the only real Bruce Wayne in my opinion next to Adam West) wanted more money and Joel Schumaker took over the director's chair from Burton and we were intoduced to ridiculous villians like Doctor Freeze (one of Schwartzanegger's worst roles)......but his villians (except for Nicholson brilliantly playing the Joker) were eh....so so to me....I mean, was Danny De Vito as the Penguin REALLY that much of a threat to Batman as compared to the Green Goblin or Doctor Octopus? I mean, I understand that Batman was fighting different, more psychologically-attacking villians than Spider Man was, but come on......

I cant comment on Batman Begins because I didnt see it. But how is the Joker supposed to be re-introduced into this franchise if Keaton killed him in the first one? Did he stage his death (which I suspected when I first saw it) off that building or am I missing something here?

[Kam]

I cant comment on Batman Begins because I didnt see it. But how is the Joker supposed to be re-introduced into this franchise if Keaton killed him in the first one? Did he stage his death (which I suspected when I first saw it) off that building or am I missing something here?

Batman Begins has nothing to do with the previous franchise. This follows the comic storyline much more closely. It's basically Batman: Year One with the Scarecrow added in.

[Lexmark3200]

Batman Begins has nothing to do with the previous franchise. This follows the comic storyline much more closely. It's basically Batman: Year One with the Scarecrow added in.

Yes, but is this where the franchise is HEADED ---- its going to go FORWARD from Batman Begins? Then nothing that took place previously with Nicholson as the Joker is going to apply to the next Batman films that come out?

[Kam]

Yes, but is this where the franchise is HEADED ---- its going to go FORWARD from Batman Begins? Then nothing that took place previously with Nicholson as the Joker is going to apply to the next Batman films that come out?

I sure as heck hope so!! all the main leads are signed on for the sequel except for Katie Holmes.

[Lexmark3200]

"Although it did bring out an emotional response from me when the T-Rex was defeted early in the movie. I so expected T-Rex to kick some major a** butt, and I was in shock to see him go down for the count."

Agreed totally; it got an emotional response from me too as I wanst expecting that other breed of 'Saur to kick the T-Rex's ass, and it was kinda sad when he was defeated and killed.....


"The one point that did erk me was when this hugh finned beast snuck up on everyone in the sceen where the boy and family were reunited. How could something that was shaking my windows in all the other sceens manage to make no sound at all? The sat phone in his belly was all you could hear. (take off on the gator with the clock in his belly from Peter Pan I guess) And how did the others facing in his dirrection not see this 4 story baby coming at them. But I get over it fast as they all run for their lives."

I know. Completely ridiculous.

"Anyway, another grate review Lex. Always detailed, informative, organized and well written. I look back when I'm done and say to myself, "self, you read all that?! But it only took a few seconds." Very enjoyable."

I wanted to thank you YET AGAIN for these kind words regarding my review(s) above; that is so thoughtful for someone to take the time and read these and comment like you do. Just wanted to tell you that your comments NEVER go unnoticed. Thanks again, good friend!

[Luis31]

[QUOTE=Lexmark3200]"Although it did bring out an emotional response from me when the T-Rex was defeted early in the movie. I so expected T-Rex to kick some major a** butt, and I was in shock to see him go down for the count."

Agreed totally; it got an emotional response from me too as I wanst expecting that other breed of 'Saur to kick the T-Rex's ass, and it was kinda sad when he was defeated and killed.....


I don't know guys,

I thought the way the writers did this "dino fight" thing to introduce the new big, bad predator in town was pretty lame. You're going to tell me the T-Rex clamps the spinosaur by the neck, pushes him and drags him around, then the spinosour managed to free himself without a scratch to somehow break the neck of the T-Rex! Are you kiddin? In reality, even if the spinosour would've killed the T-Rex, he would've been pretty badly wounded, perhaps mortally, specially if he was bitten in the neck...

[Lexmark3200]

True......

[RGA]

Wow, alot of good inside information there about the possible villians for Spidey 3.....and although I am fan of the comic as well, I dont agree (still) that the romance shenanigans should be SO sensationalized in the motion picture adaptations.....any time Kirsten Dunst is on the screen I fall asleep during a Spider Man picture; I mean I KNOW Mary Jane Watson is an insanely INTEGRAL part of the story line, Im just saying the parts where they are wondering if they are in love with each other back and forth and back and forth in Part 2 just had me grabbing my remote and fast forwarding to the next fight scene between Doc Ock and Spidey.

Oh, I disagree with what you are saying here about Spidey's villians --- these matchups are awesome compared to the way Batman fought HIS villians in the motion pictures in my opinion; I mean, the Batman franchise was great until Keaton (the only real Bruce Wayne in my opinion next to Adam West) wanted more money and Joel Schumaker took over the director's chair from Burton and we were intoduced to ridiculous villians like Doctor Freeze (one of Schwartzanegger's worst roles)......but his villians (except for Nicholson brilliantly playing the Joker) were eh....so so to me....I mean, was Danny De Vito as the Penguin REALLY that much of a threat to Batman as compared to the Green Goblin or Doctor Octopus? I mean, I understand that Batman was fighting different, more psychologically-attacking villians than Spider Man was, but come on......

I cant comment on Batman Begins because I didnt see it. But how is the Joker supposed to be re-introduced into this franchise if Keaton killed him in the first one? Did he stage his death (which I suspected when I first saw it) off that building or am I missing something here?

You're mixing up the comic book cartoon villains and the Tim Burton dreck films. The Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Cat Woman, Mister Freeze are probably the best mainstream cartoon character villains out there. The fact that the films screwed them up well i agree with you.

As I said the Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus were memoerable villains -- for someone with a masters degree you don't read too close to what I'm saying and you create some strawman arguments. The reason I gave most of the batman films bad reviews is because of things like screwing up the penguin, not making the Riddler remotely interesting and Freeze a dullard.

Both Spiderman films I like over the Batman films -- the difference is that Sam Raimi knows comic books and he gets the villains spot on. I think the villains are less interesting but Raimi Gets the most out of the Goblin he probably could and he gets more out of Ock than I thought was possible from the comics. The Batman villains are more interesting comic book characters -- the difference was they did nothing with them. Maybe they shoulda hired Raimi.

[Lexmark3200]

"You're mixing up the comic book cartoon villains and the Tim Burton dreck films. The Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Cat Woman, Mister Freeze are probably the best mainstream cartoon character villains out there. The fact that the films screwed them up well i agree with you."

Well, as I said (and I think YOU yourself need to read a bit closer to what I SAY, as YOU accuse ME of, but I'll get to that in a minute because you're way out of line here), BURTON'S DRECK FILMS were not the Batmans I was really concerned with --- it was when Schumaker took the helm and we were introduced to a rather lame Mr. Freeze and a not-so-great Riddler with Jim Carrey.

"As I said the Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus were memoerable villains -- for someone with a masters degree you don't read too close to what I'm saying and you create some strawman arguments."

First of all, what EXACTLY does this statement mean? I have a MASTERS DEGREE in EXPOSITORY WRITING so what does that have to do with how close I read your scriptures in here? I believe you are just an argumentative person that enjoys the art of debate with someone and getting under their skin just for the sake of doing that --- but thats okay; I have dealt with PLENTY of people in my life like that. Thats okay. And, as I said, read a bit CLOSER to what I SAY and then we'll talk a little more in depth, even over the phone if you would care to debate our knowledge comparison on film a little more --- I'll gladly give you my phone number to arrange this.


"The reason I gave most of the batman films bad reviews is because of things like screwing up the penguin, not making the Riddler remotely interesting and Freeze a dullard."

I agree with most of this; I think NO villian in the history of comic book-turned-cinema is going to top Nicholson's Joker, Im sorry.....thats just my opinion. He just played that role perfectly. Now, I am afraid to see what happens to this franchise once the Joker gets "re introduced" through the groundwork of the prequel BATMAN BEGINS......

"Both Spiderman films I like over the Batman films -- the difference is that Sam Raimi knows comic books and he gets the villains spot on."

I agree.

"I think the villains are less interesting but Raimi Gets the most out of the Goblin he probably could and he gets more out of Ock than I thought was possible from the comics. The Batman villains are more interesting comic book characters -- the difference was they did nothing with them. Maybe they shoulda hired Raimi."

Maybe......but I still think the FIGHT SEQUENCES between Spidey and HIS villians are just so much better and nail-biting in terms of suspense than any of the Batman villian "battles" if thats what you want to call them.....I mean, in Spider Man, Spidey is duking it out punching villians and kicking them and spinning webs at them, and what is Batman really doing? Sure there are some memorable villian moments, but Batman's villians, I think, are more psychologically attacking if you know what I mean.

[steamboy 2]

This film series go's in order. the first is always going to be hard to top & it has not, but as far as jp3 it's not bad the people are as dumb as any movie people can be, but i think that's the point. you want those people to get ripped apart or just made into dino food. i just took it for what it is a summer popcorn movie. you really can't ask for these kind of movies to really impress beyond a certain point, because these movies are just trying to get your money & get there's back. that's the rule of summer movies(well, most of them) check your real common sense at the door.

[Lexmark3200]

Agreed, Steamboy.

[kelsci]

Hello Lex; I have not been here awhile. Much too long a story to explain why but over the past year, my interest in electronics and home theater just seemed to vanish in my mind after futzing around with the hobby for over 50 years. I literally stopped using my system and renting DVDs.

I know I did not see you post for sometime I believe was in the latter part of 2004 and the early part of 2005. I am glad to see you back and in a most contributing way doing reviews of releases on DVD.

I did buy this disc when it came out. I think JP111 is better than the previous 2 releases. I agree with you on the DTS sound. I felt that the video quality reminded me more of an excellently transferred laserdisc; in fact it reminded me of the CAV version of JP1 which I was able to rent some years back.

I listened to both the DTS and D.D. soundtracks. To me, each tract really did not have serious disadvantages but more-so excelled in certain areas. I felt the D.D. track had actually better imaging. I also felt that this track sounds more "theaterlike"; that the acoustical properties sound more like the soundfield of a movie theater. There is no question that if one listens carefully to both tracks back and forth that the D.D. version shows definite compression against the DTS track that does not sound compressed at all. The DTS tract definitly has more audio detail as well. Therefore, while both tracts will reproduce their matrixed D.D. EX and DTS-ES tracts well, it is the DTS-ES tract that stands out better IMO. In fact, in your review and others that commented on this film did not mention how nicely balanced the "surround back information" effects played on this film. I do not have a six channel receiver, but as I mentioned in previous postings on audioreview, that one can hear matrixed surround back info if their rear speakers are placed in specific postions, one of which is when the rear speakers face each other. One good demo of the EX-ES sounds on this film is towards the end when the raptors surround the rescue party looking for their eggs. The raptor "shrieks" in the rear surrounds come out all over the place, but virtually "ear-piercing" on the DTS tract.

Take care Lex. Good to see you on the circuit. I believe from what I read that you did move from NY to Las Vegas which I think you were considering doing some time ago. Kelsci.

[Lexmark3200]

"Hello Lex; I have not been here awhile. Much too long a story to explain why but over the past year, my interest in electronics and home theater just seemed to vanish in my mind after futzing around with the hobby for over 50 years. I literally stopped using my system and renting DVDs."

Hey my good friend! Great to hear from you again! My interest in the hobby also vanished over the last good few months because of a horrendous breakup situation I was in which really tore my world apart, so I know what you mean.

"I know I did not see you post for sometime I believe was in the latter part of 2004 and the early part of 2005."

I was indeed having some personal issues.

"I am glad to see you back and in a most contributing way doing reviews of releases on DVD."

Glad to be back and thank you for taking the time to read and analyze the review.

"I did buy this disc when it came out. I think JP111 is better than the previous 2 releases. I agree with you on the DTS sound."

Yes, the second one is often frowned upon in the home theater community.

"I felt that the video quality reminded me more of an excellently transferred laserdisc; in fact it reminded me of the CAV version of JP1 which I was able to rent some years back."

I got a bit more out of the video presentation, believe that or not; I felt is was ALMOST perfectly mastered.

"I listened to both the DTS and D.D. soundtracks. To me, each tract really did not have serious disadvantages but more-so excelled in certain areas. I felt the D.D. track had actually better imaging. I also felt that this track sounds more "theaterlike"; that the acoustical properties sound more like the soundfield of a movie theater. There is no question that if one listens carefully to both tracks back and forth that the D.D. version shows definite compression against the DTS track that does not sound compressed at all."

As is USUALLY the case, as we know, and hence why I dont USUALLY demo both tracks on a disc as Terrence has demanded I do (hehe) and why I usually leave these A/B comparisons to folks such as yourself who tend to do them better than I; when I see the DTS logo----I go for it, no questions asked.

"The DTS tract definitly has more audio detail as well. Therefore, while both tracts will reproduce their matrixed D.D. EX and DTS-ES tracts well, it is the DTS-ES tract that stands out better IMO. In fact, in your review and others that commented on this film did not mention how nicely balanced the "surround back information" effects played on this film"

I mentioned in one portion where you get the sensation of one of the dinosaurs' tails "whipping" around the rear field very nicely......

"I do not have a six channel receiver, but as I mentioned in previous postings on audioreview, that one can hear matrixed surround back info if their rear speakers are placed in specific postions, one of which is when the rear speakers face each other. One good demo of the EX-ES sounds on this film is towards the end when the raptors surround the rescue party looking for their eggs. The raptor "shrieks" in the rear surrounds come out all over the place, but virtually "ear-piercing" on the DTS tract."

This disc, before we go any further, is NOT labeled as a DTS ES or DD EX compatible title, and I had this discussion already with diehard enthusiasts on Home Theater Talk.com; Universal LABELS the mix simply as DTS 5.1.

"Take care Lex. Good to see you on the circuit. I believe from what I read that you did move from NY to Las Vegas which I think you were considering doing some time ago."

Thanks alot, Kel! I appreciate it man! Take care as well, and please feel free to join in any discussions we have here on these reviews! You have always been a great friend and I hope you are in good health!

My Best Wishes to You and Your Family.

[kelsci]

Hi Lex; Thank you for your most gracious response. I agree with you that JP111 is nearly a perfectly mastered disc. I can tell you that JP1 on CAV laserdisc was perhaps the most perfectly mastered disc on that format. The video was sharper than the CLV long play version and the dolby surround audio was clearer and cleaner as well vs the CLV long play disc.

The "tail whipping" sound effect was a great example of EX-ES center back sound. The "whipping" sound went across the whole rear and rear back sound field perfectly. A good example of a disc that did not have EX-ES or in fact any kind of center back sound was a particular segment of ARMEGEDDON. When Bruce Willis is left behind to explode the A-bomb, he is listening to the shuttle take off. As it passes overhead, you hear the shuttle flyby jumping from one rear speaker to the next instead of the smooth transition across the whole rear soundfield that was needed such as that "tailwhipping" scene in JP111.

Take care, Lex. Kelsci.

[Lexmark3200]

"Hi Lex; Thank you for your most gracious response."

You are most welcome my friend. Thank you for finally getting back in touch as you are the most caring, heartfelt member of this entire forum and your thoughts are ALWAYS well respected by me.

"I agree with you that JP111 is nearly a perfectly mastered disc."

True and glad we see this together.

"I can tell you that JP1 on CAV laserdisc was perhaps the most perfectly mastered disc on that format. The video was sharper than the CLV long play version and the dolby surround audio was clearer and cleaner as well vs the CLV long play disc."

While I dont have experience with the laserdisc, I will take your word for it.

"The "tail whipping" sound effect was a great example of EX-ES center back sound. The "whipping" sound went across the whole rear and rear back sound field perfectly."

I just wish for two things: that the BOX SAID this was a DTS ES mix and that I had that back speaker to take advantage of the 6.1 preparation.

"A good example of a disc that did not have EX-ES or in fact any kind of center back sound was a particular segment of ARMEGEDDON. When Bruce Willis is left behind to explode the A-bomb, he is listening to the shuttle take off. As it passes overhead, you hear the shuttle flyby jumping from one rear speaker to the next instead of the smooth transition across the whole rear soundfield that was needed"

Yes, I think I know the scene (audio wise) that you are referring to here in Armageddon and you're probably right that it would have benefitted from EX encoding (because it was a DOLBY soundtrack, not DTS which I wish it was); I will have to re-watch it and listen for it.....not one of my favorite Buena Vista Dolby Digital tracks, but it does kind of look good for a non anamorphic transfer.....

"Take care, Lex. Kelsci."

You too, Kel.....best to you and your family.

[kelsci]

Hi Lex; As I mentioned previously, I do not have a back speaker on my system since my receiver is just 5.1. The EX-ES sound can be reproduced phantomly. On your system as mine, the "tail whipping" sound effect will be heard phantomly across your whole back soundfield. It is the smoothness of that effect across that whole back soundfield that is the EX-ES sound and that is what you are hearing. The ARMEGEDDON sound effect I mentioned is near the end of the film. On your system as well, you will most likely hear what I heard where the sound of the shuttle jumps from one rear speaker to another where had this scene had some kind of center back processing; the ship should sound like it went across the rear sound field smoothly from one speaker to another. It really should have had the same effect as that " tail whipping" scene in JP111. Kelsci.

[Lexmark3200]

"As I mentioned previously, I do not have a back speaker on my system since my receiver is just 5.1."

Oh yes, my apologies for overlooking that.

"The EX-ES sound can be reproduced phantomly."

A phenomenon I always had a difficult time understanding but I will take your expert word on it.

"On your system as mine, the "tail whipping" sound effect will be heard phantomly across your whole back soundfield. It is the smoothness of that effect across that whole back soundfield that is the EX-ES sound and that is what you are hearing."

Okay; Im gonna have to listen again for this but I am STILL bothered by the fact that Universal DID NOT indicate this as a DTS ES mix----it is LABELED on the box as a DTS 5.1 track.

"The ARMEGEDDON sound effect I mentioned is near the end of the film. On your system as well, you will most likely hear what I heard where the sound of the shuttle jumps from one rear speaker to another where had this scene had some kind of center back processing; the ship should sound like it went across the rear sound field smoothly from one speaker to another. It really should have had the same effect as that " tail whipping" scene in JP111."

I know the scene you speak of; I'll try to demo it when I can. Thanks.