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  1. #51
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    But as a card carrying member of the "Merry Marvel Marching Society" I find the whole discussion/worship of Bats to be "unseemly" and vile.

    Da "Make Mine Marvel" Worfster
    Oh you Marvel fanboys!

    When it comes to comics, I do find the Marvel storylines more interesting to follow in general (although I think the Batman graphic novels are as good as anything I've read from Marvel). But, up until this recent round of comic book movies began streaming out, the conventional wisdom was that the DC characters translated better to movies and TV.
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  2. #52
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Oh you Marvel fanboys!

    When it comes to comics, I do find the Marvel storylines more interesting to follow in general (although I think the Batman graphic novels are as good as anything I've read from Marvel). But, up until this recent round of comic book movies began streaming out, the conventional wisdom was that the DC characters translated better to movies and TV.
    Marvel Fanboy!!!!!!! @**)*@)(!@!@&$#@*!!!!!!!


    guilty as charged......


    You're either Ford or Chevy, Dem or Republican, Yankee or Met... no cuttin' round it. But I must admit I watch Batman Begins EVERY single time it's on and I've bought several Batman series, particularly Bats vs. Predator, Bats vs. Dracula and the Dark Knight Returns. Sigh... must be slippin' in my ole age.

    Da Worsfter

  3. #53
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    3. Setting - Was it me or did the Gotham of Burton and Batman Begins seem a bit more "gothic" and mysterious. I guess all the modern buildings didn't help me suspend belief as in the first one.

    4. Characters - Batamn was the least interesting character in the whole shebang. I felt that Dent and the Joker were far more interesting. As for the actress that played the love interest??? Sheeeeya... I found her performance marred by the fact that everytime I saw her face the plainess of her looks had me wondering what Dent or Wayne were fighting/talking about? I know the first actress turned the roll down but dayum they could've found someone a bit more alluring to fight over. Gordon's character really shown in this film as well.

    5. Storyline - Intersting but not riveting. I did like the fact that "in reality" if you atttack organized crime, it fights back in the most brutal of ways. I also was struck by Batman's decision to save the comrade first and the squeeze second. To me the plot twists and revelations were superior to me.

    6. Entertainment - Eh... I enjoyed "Ironman" far more as "entertainment". Batman gave me more to think about. I learned stuff watching this movie about the nature of man and choices that must be made by "doer's" instead of "watchers". I left the threatre drained like I'd gone ten with Tyson in his prime, not refreshed and exhilerated like I did say at the endo of "Star Wars" or "Raiders of the Lost Ark".
    Saw it this weekend too.

    I agree with all these points. I'm not chomping at the bit to see the next Batman movie. It would have been ideal to have the Joker escape, which would segue into the next sequel, but now that's not going to happen. And as for Ledger's Joker; his was superior to Nicholson's, by a mile. But if he doesn't die, we're not talking Oscar nod at all. One needs to suspend disbelief on two fronts, the fact that its a comic book character, and the hype.

    I think I liked the fantasy deco noire of Burton's Gotham over the use of Chicago, but I think that this film is written better than any of Burton's Batmen. Sure, I appreciated Burton's warped sense of humor in the first two Batman movies, but they haven't endured.

    This would have been an outstanding storyline, without the Batman main character. Why does our super heroes' always have to wear a mask? James Bond doesn't. Batman reminds me of James Bond in a way, except James Bond's character has chosen his path knowing that he must live a reclusive, dangerous life, out in the open, without the so-called normal life as a front by which to hide or take refuge. Bond has clearly made an all-or-nothing choice, Bruce Wayne has not, even though Wayne, like Bond, has no real family unit to consider. Hell, Gordon makes more of a sacrifice for cause in that manner than Bruce does.

    Sure, superheroes are usually a one man show, but why? As this film pointed out, even Batman is no match for organized crime. This film was very good at exposing the flaws in the masked vigilante/loner persona, if that's what it was intending to do. Batman seemed helpless to an extent, and to a certain extent, he seemed very selfish and deluded, thinking he can go all badassed on organized crime and not endanger even more people. OK, so he took on all of Dent's stuff on himself for the greater good, but again, he gets to take off the mask when he wants too. The Gordons of the world don't get too.

    So yes, a lot more to think about, but I look forward to the next series of Marvel movies, but am not wondering what the next Batman will be like. Marvel still holds an air of wonder for me, but Batman made me question the very notion of superheroes, which I guess, in of itself, is an accomplishment. But when you explode the myth, what's left...some rich a$$hole in a bat suit? Bond would mop the floor with him.

  4. #54
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Finally saw it - my 2 cents...arguably the best Batman movie. It felt less like a comic book story and more like Mission Impossible or James Bond...This was soooo much better than the Zorro/Counte of Monte Cristo rip-off that was Batman Begins.

    But I did grow a bit tired of the dark-and-gloomy-for-the-sake-of-dark-and-gloomy theme throughout the movie. Dammit...today's pop-culture has continued to be obsessed with black, dark, brooding, gothic themes...it's getting boring. Though I understand that's the modern interpretation of the Bat-world...but geez...we need to bring back color. There's only so much doom and gloom a guy can take artistically...but once again, art immitates life and I guess life has that predictably dark,ugly side we're all drawn too...that's a discussion for another day though.

    The characters were pretty good in this flick - and definitely less comic booky than most other modern comic book adaptations.
    I think people have been too quick to dismiss Batman's character this time around. This movie was all about making you feel sorry for Batman. The hero is the victim...the savior. Same thing the Spidey movies tried to do - except I think Bale sells it better than Mcguire who just comes across as a whiny little suckhole. Bale doesn't feel sorry for himself. He mans up and accepts it. Finally. Every hero gets to be "thanked", but not Batman, he's feared and considered a bad guy. No reward for the effort. You also get a real sense that Batman can be in danger, not so with most of the Marvel movies. I liked the Batman character this time - for the first time ever we see something new in a comic book story super hero's character - awareness of symbolism, a sense of burden, and a long-term career plan/goal. That's more substance than almost every other super hero's character put together.

    To me, Iron Man was a better movie because there was more to it - better comedy, better action, and for an origin-story, a fairly decent plot. TDK had better antagonists, but that's it. Iron Man had more style.

    And yeah, I went in to the movie trying to be a bit contrarian, defending myself against the hype machine, and doing my best to be snob and not a fanboy...but the Joker was pretty freakin' awesome.

  5. #55
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Nice...

    Good, fair and balanced reviews there 3LB and Kex. You, like most here, have given me things to think about in this flick. I actually might have to see this thing again thanks to the in depth discussion here...

    Thanks...

    Da Worfster

  6. #56
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Errr one question Kex ole bean....

    Unhh...

    "whiney little suckhole"?

    ROTFLMBBAO chit man I work for that guy, and his brother, and his sister too.

    God... best laugh I've had in a week of few laughs.

    Da Worfster

  7. #57
    Ajani
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    My 2 Cents:

    So I finally saw the film... and to be honest, I loved it... Though I can see why many people would have various issues with it... the dark realistic tone is not what many people expect and not what some people want... The best and worst thing about the film is that it would be an excellent film with or without the Superhero premise... 2face was played like a real person rather than a comic book villain... Even the Joker was played realistically (yes, I know what I just wrote)... and as a result, the film becomes more of an intelectual excercise than the typical shoot-em-up, blow them up, beat them up comic book movie/action film... Yes there is a lot of action in the film... but you don't feel like you're watching an action movie... the action seems secondary to the overall darker theme of the film...

    If you want light, fluffy, fun and inspiring... then The Dark Knight is not the movie for you... if you want to be beaten with the led pipe of reality (hmmm... I probably should have made that sound more appealing) and have your views of life and comic book heroes challenged, then The Dark Knight is a must see...


    I found Harvey Dent to be a very convincing character... they explain his transformation very well IMO... and at the same time they don't make the mistake of trying to give some convoluted back story for the Joker... they really just explain his motivations and leave some real mystery around the character...

    Even the fact that Batman/Bruce Wayne played a secondary role to 2Face/Harvey Dent & the Joker, made sense given what they were trying to show in terms of the direction Gotham was going and needed to go...

    and SPOILER ALERT (somewhat)





    The fact that The Joker wins... he actually accomplished what he set out to do... at the end all Batman and Gordon could do was cover it up... really that is not what you expect to see in a comic book film... but it is more like real life...



    My Verdict: 2 Thumbs and a Toe up

  8. #58
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Wife and I went to see it on Saturday. Theater was PACKED.

    I (and the wife) loved the film. Just what Batman should be. Dark, moody, and angry. For all those that think "comic books" are just kids fare, you owe it to yourself to stop thinking comics are the same they were in 1950.

    Ledger was awesome. The Joker was scary, but not overacted.

    I liked the special effects, and the fact that they didn't seem overly in your face.

    I did think that when Batman took out the semi it had a bit of the Jedi Vs. The AT-AT feel though.

    And I laughed out loud when the Joker told Two Face that he "completes me".

    I don't know enough of the Batman series (comic book) to know who the next villians are. But the direction of these films has only gone for the better!

    All in all, great film. Can't wait to see it again!
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  9. #59
    JSE
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    Saw it on IMAX last night. Man, all action movies should be on IMAX. Just an amazing format.

    Movie = A-
    Bruce = B
    Batman = B-
    Joker = A+
    Gordan = B+
    Rachel = C-
    Dent = B+
    Two Face = B

    Really like the movie as a whole and love they still stuck with the "dark" feel. I think the Joker was clearly the best performace by a mile and Ledger did an outstanding job. He would have been the last person I would have picked for the role but he did an outstanding job.

    SPOLIER ALERT.....

    My biggest gripe was Maggie (jake's sister) Gulie......I don't have a clue has to spell her last name. I think they really choose the wrong person for this role and really had her in the movie as filler. By the time she got off'd, I was happy she was gone. She was horrible. In Batman Begins, you felt to relationship between she and Bruce. In this film, it was just an afterthought. It was not convincing at all Is it just me or is she just not that good looking or talented?

    Anyway, just an awesome movie. IMO it was not as good as Begins but a very good movie and a nice followup. Like many others, I really liked the backstory in Begins and it had a more "ominous" feel to it.

    If you have not seen this movie on IMAX, find it somewhere and go see it again if you can. You won't be sorry.

    JSE

  10. #60
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Wow...

    Welp, all the regulars have seen the flickage cept mebbe F.A. and the consensus is that this was a "great" film. I put it as a "good" film but I may see it again just to make sure. JSE and GB, KEX, 3LB and everyone, thanks for rounding out the reivews.

    Da Worfster

    JSE, I agree with you on what's her name so bad my teeth hurt. What a complete miscasting.

  11. #61
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    I'm really looking forward to the follow-up




    to Iron Man

  12. #62
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by 3-LockBox
    I'm really looking forward to the follow-up




    to Iron Man
    Boy you sure know how to start em!!!! I'm going to see TDK one more time, this time with lowered expectations.

    Da Worfster

  13. #63
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    My wife and I FINALLY got to get out and see the movie last night.

    All I can say is WOW! Saw it in IMAX, and the scenes filmed in IMAX were absolutely stunning in their clarity and detail. The scenes magnified from 35mm also looked pretty good, but the IMAX scenes were unbelievably vivid. It's no surprise that the IMAX screenings in my area are still selling out, with long lines well before showtime (my wife and I arrived more than half an hour before showtime, and we were stuck in the middle of the 4th row).

    The only flaw that I see with the presentation (and/or production) is that the dialog is mixed way too low in certain scenes. I doesn't help that Christian Bale decided to make his Batman grizzly bear voice even more gruff in this movie.

    The Dark Knight was a different movie than I expected, and actually did away with a lot of what I liked about Batman Begins. Yet, I thought it was an excellent movie in its own right. Most of the reviews are right in that The Dark Knight plays less like a comic book movie and more like a modern crime thriller. It's not so much that this movie transcends the comic book genre, but more that it bypasses much of what typifies the genre.

    Batman was just a cog in a more elaborate crime story, and not the mysterious and frightening dark presence that he was in Batman Begins (which was one of the elements that I loved in that movie). Also, Gotham looks and feels an awful lot like ... uh ... Chicago? Nolan stripped away the stylized gothic city in Batman Begins, and this go round he also did away with the desperate slum island that he created in the first movie. Seemed like they were purposely trying to avoid using CGI for the flyover scenes (and my understanding is that Nolan indeed wanted to minimize the CGI effects). Unlike the other Batman movies (and the comic series), seems like Gotham was more of a bit player than a central part of the movie's overall feel. And in this way, I did not get the feeling of desperation with the citizens of Gotham like I did with the previous movie.

    Yet, despite these changes, the storyline was very strong, revolving around that central theme of the hero either dying as a hero or living long enough to be seen as a villain. This is a loaded film, with a lot of overlapping themes. But, in the end I think it works incredibly well as a tragedy with multiple tragic heroes. It's very much about the hubris in both Batman/Wayne and Harvey Dent.

    As expected, Heath Ledger was frightening and creepy as the Joker. And he played the Joker more subtly than I expected, which made his menace in a way more real.

    One big improvement from Batman Begins is the action scenes. Seems that Nolan's gotten more adept and comfortable with filming big action scenes. The aerial scenes are simply spectacular.

    Yes, it is a relentlessly grim and dark movie, but that's the world that the characters inhabit. And I think that also works well with conveying the sense of terror that the Joker was trying to create. For the citizenry, this movie is a story of an unrepentant terrorist who kills and robs, not for a cause, but simply because he enjoys it. And in a way, if Nolan tried to insert moments of levity into the movie, it might feel contrived.

    The Rachel Dawes story arc was the biggest weakness in the movie. Maggie Gyllenhaal was totally underutilized here. She's a big step up from Katie Holmes, who was by far the weakest link in Batman Begins. Here, her character's just not given a lot to do.

    On the whole though, this is very impactful movie and it stays with you much more than a typical summer movie. I'm not sure what direction the series will take next, but there are so may interesting directions in which it can go.


    SPOILER ALERT


    In the end, it was Dent whose hubris led to him becoming a villain and Batman whose hubris led him to becoming SEEN AS a villain in the end. Nolan pointed to this story arc at the end of Batman Begins when Gordon was talking about escalation, and The Dark Knight fully realizes that plot thread in a way that I did not expect to see from a comic book movie. This movie really gets into the moral ambiguity of heroism, and how a vigilante crusade can indeed provoke a criminal response with frightening and unintended consequences.

    To a lesser extent, there were also tragic consequences for Gordon in that he's now forced to turn on Batman, the only person he works with that he can completely trust.

    In a way, the movie was trying to signal some hope with the two ferry boats, and how the hostages on board wound up choosing not to sacrifice hundreds of others in order to save themselves. In that way, the Joker failed in his quest to let fear turn the citizenry against each other. But, he succeeded in turning Dent into a villian, and Batman into an outcast.

    The scenes with Harvey and Rachel held captive I think were totally bungled, and were the only big misstep in the movie. Nolan did not do a good job at establishing the tension and building up to the climax. Harvey getting half his face burned off in an acid bath, and Rachel getting blown up -- those scenes should have created more of an impact than they did. For me, they just came off as inconsequential.
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  14. #64
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    I saw it Sunday afternoon. We went to IMAX, got there about 20 mins. before the start time and was greeted by a lovely announcement saying that it was sold out. DANG!!!!!!

    Ended up seeing it a few hours later at a regular theater

    I don't know, I though it was pretty good but I liked Begins better. I loved the Joker though. This guy was freakin' nuts and had my attention every time he was on the screen.

  15. #65
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    I saw it Sunday afternoon. We went to IMAX, got there about 20 mins. before the start time and was greeted by a lovely announcement saying that it was sold out. DANG!!!!!!

    Ended up seeing it a few hours later at a regular theater

    I don't know, I though it was pretty good but I liked Begins better. I loved the Joker though. This guy was freakin' nuts and had my attention every time he was on the screen.
    Ouch! Because I was going on Saturday night and I noticed that the evening IMAX screenings were still selling out, I made sure to buy the tix online the night before. I had no idea that even Sunday afternoon shows were still selling out. Even though we got out tickets online, by the time we arrived at the theater (more than half an hour before showtime) the entire theater except the first four rows was already filled.

    We're going to visit some relatives up in Washington next week ... hmmm and waddya know, there's an IMAX up there too ...

    Fortunately, if you still want to see it in IMAX, looks like The Dark Knight will get a long run at the IMAX theaters since the next IMAX movies (Madagascar 2 and Harry Potter) don't come out until November.

    As for comparing The Dark Knight with Batman Begins, I'm not sure. They're very different movies, and not that easy to compare. The Dark Knight has more depth with the story and better action scenes, but I also loved how Batman Begins created a mythic presence with the Batman character and a desperate Gotham City in search of a hero. The Dark Knight has definitely stayed with me a lot more, but I'm not so sure whether I like it more than Batman Begins. Both are great movies though, and will get a lot of repeat viewing.
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  16. #66
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    The Dark Night was the best movie I have seen in a long time. A++

  17. #67
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Lol

    How the interrogation scene should've went!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8...com/mim/?p=426


    Da Worfster

  18. #68
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    My wife fell asleep. I came close, especially in the 3rd act after Dent became 2-face.

    Ledger was a blast, but that's about it for me. It was just a lot of noise and hysteria without any really engaging characters or real meaning. All the intensity and pathos felt forced and artificial. Bale's gruff Batman voice sounded silly and WAY over the top. The "shocking" plot twists were all too telegraphed and predictable. Convoluted and bloated with about 12 too many characters and superfluous scenes, the movie was at least 45 minutes too long.
    I agree with Troy. I finally saw this movie tonight and was going to post about how difficult I found it to stay interested. Then I saw Troy's post and thought that he summed it up pretty well.

    The only thing that kept me mildly interested was Ledger's portrayal of The Joker and some good looking actors. Otherwise, I was very disappointed.

    The trailers before the movie showed some upcoming features that look pretty cool though. I'm now looking forward to Watchmen and the new Pacino/De Niro flick.
    Last edited by ForeverAutumn; 09-06-2008 at 06:53 PM.

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