The Book of Eli

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Hyfi,
I totally understand the history of the bible, the many re-writes, changes,etc..but I am not willing to discount the concept of bible as a whole. Based on what I have learned over the years, the King James version of the bible came from the worst interpreted of the different manuscripts, and there are many alterations in it that are not found in other manuscripts. There were other more accurate manuscripts that pretty much agreed with each other, but they were not used in the King James version.

One of the worst misuses of the bible come from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. For all of my life, I was taught that it was the sexual sins(or homosexuality) of the inhabitance of the cities as the reason for their destruction. That wasn't the case at all. It was the poor treatment of the poor and lower class folks that got it destroyed according to two bible scholars who lectures I attended. The people were self indulgent, haughty, lazy, full of pride, and had no social conscious. They were ungovernable, and that is why God destroyed the cities. To this day Christians still use this story to condemn gays, and that is not what the bible is all about.

The Bible teaches us in the old testament that adulterers are to be stoned. Do we stone adulterous people today? No we don't, that would be considered barbaric. And yet we use Leviticus(which is in the old testament) to condemn gays, and still do today! There is much in Leviticus, as well as the other books containing commentary .. the Law, that is not only practical, but was necessary for the health of the tribe. Therein lies the issue for Leviticus, et.al. -- it must be understood and interpreted within the framework of its own particular cultural milieu. That means we cannot apply it today effectively, because it was written for the tribal people of that period.

I have studied the history of the Bible, the history of the Christrian religions, and have now gotten to a point in my spiritual life that I am clear as a bell of what God is looking for from us. It is a very simple verse from John 15:12, and it says: This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.. Since God is love, this is what he wants us to pass among ourselves, not the hateful judgement and rhetoric we are hearing now.

I am going to be honest, I love the Bible, but I am also very clear about its history. I love my church, but I also realize the its members and myself as well are humans first, and spiritual creatures secondly, so we make mistakes. I am not perfect, which means I cannot judge folks as if I am. I leave the judging to those that are perfect, which means absolutely nobody on this planet should judge anyone.

[Feanor]

There is a difference between Christians and people who call themselves Christians. The majority of people in the U.S. call themselves Christians, the term has obviously become to be used very loosely. Hyfi, is correct, you take the Bible as a whole or not at all. God loves every one as He is no respecter of persons, He is also love, but only those who are obedient to God's word will inherit heaven according to the Bible. The path is narrow to heaven yet wide to distruction. If you believe He is love you also have to believe He destroyed the world by flood due to the lack of righteousness in the world. That's the problem today is too many cherry pick from the Bible and create their own religion. There is a pattern in the Bible for Christians and if you don't fit it then you aren't one no matter what you call yourself.

Does an atheist get equal preaching time here?

I'm more or less one of those "New Atheists" who are't not content to quitely and discretely tolerate religion. Religion is not merely the harmless aberration of quite a few people willing to put myth above reality, it's the single most divisive and destructive force in the world today, (as it generally has been through history). Yes, I will tell people they should not believe but be skeptics.

Some say the problem is organized religion or the manipulation of true religion by self-serving cynics. But it's not: it's the willingness of people to believe humbug because it makes them feel good, (righteous or whatever). What hope for a world full of people willing to believe "received wisdom" without putting it to the test of evidence and reason? Not much.

We need to get our heads around the fact that the world here-and-now is what we have to work with. It's up to us and us on our own, not "with God's help", to make the best of it.

[Troy]

We won't survive as a species unless we can put all religion behind us. Period.

[Mr Peabody]

Hyfi,
I totally understand the history of the bible, the many re-writes, changes,etc..but I am not willing to discount the concept of bible as a whole. Based on what I have learned over the years, the King James version of the bible came from the worst interpreted of the different manuscripts, and there are many alterations in it that are not found in other manuscripts. There were other more accurate manuscripts that pretty much agreed with each other, but they were not used in the King James version.

One of the worst misuses of the bible come from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. For all of my life, I was taught that it was the sexual sins(or homosexuality) of the inhabitance of the cities as the reason for their destruction. That wasn't the case at all. It was the poor treatment of the poor and lower class folks that got it destroyed according to two bible scholars who lectures I attended. The people were self indulgent, haughty, lazy, full of pride, and had no social conscious. They were ungovernable, and that is why God destroyed the cities. To this day Christians still use this story to condemn gays, and that is not what the bible is all about.

The Bible teaches us in the old testament that adulterers are to be stoned. Do we stone adulterous people today? No we don't, that would be considered barbaric. And yet we use Leviticus(which is in the old testament) to condemn gays, and still do today! There is much in Leviticus, as well as the other books containing commentary .. the Law, that is not only practical, but was necessary for the health of the tribe. Therein lies the issue for Leviticus, et.al. -- it must be understood and interpreted within the framework of its own particular cultural milieu. That means we cannot apply it today effectively, because it was written for the tribal people of that period.

I have studied the history of the Bible, the history of the Christrian religions, and have now gotten to a point in my spiritual life that I am clear as a bell of what God is looking for from us. It is a very simple verse from John 15:12, and it says: This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.. Since God is love, this is what he wants us to pass among ourselves, not the hateful judgement and rhetoric we are hearing now.

I am going to be honest, I love the Bible, but I am also very clear about its history. I love my church, but I also realize the its members and myself as well are humans first, and spiritual creatures secondly, so we make mistakes. I am not perfect, which means I cannot judge folks as if I am. I leave the judging to those that are perfect, which means absolutely nobody on this planet should judge anyone.

To bad amongst all that studying you didn't learn to spell Christian, or possibly you meant Christrian and that's something new to me. This was said in the spirit of comorodory and not spiteful.

If you are a Bible scholar you should realize God is the same today as He was when the earth was created. You are correct that Old Testament is not apllicable today, but, the reason it isn't because Jesus died on the cross and a new Covenant, or Testament, if you will was made with man. God communicated to people in the beginning directly to the patriarchs, later He gave the Law, as many call The Ten Commandments. There was much more to the Law than just 10. The law provided no atoning for sin. Sin could only be rolled forward. As you also correctly pointed out man is weak and no one was able to keep the Law perfectly. So god sent His son to be the ultimate sacrifice and to provide forgiveness of sins. The Bible says the Law was nailed to the cross with Christ. I assume you love your boys, and I also assume you disciplined them. God is perfect and will judge us according to the Bible. The same as we would discipline our own children and not tolerate disobedience, God will not tolerate it either.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

To bad amongst all that studying you didn't learn to spell Christian, or possibly you meant Christrian and that's something new to me. This was said in the spirit of comorodory and not spiteful.

Considering your latests actions, I doubt this wasn't spiteful. But it quite frankly is a perfect example of what I mean about some so called "Christian" folks.

If you are a Bible scholar you should realize God is the same today as He was when the earth was created.

Yes this is true, but his people are not, and that is the problem. I never said I was a bible scholar now did I?

You are correct that Old Testament is not apllicable today, but, the reason it isn't because Jesus died on the cross and a new Covenant, or Testament, if you will was made with man.

He did this so there would be man left. If you didn't follow the law, you died. The way man acts on this planet, there would be nobody left if he did not die on the cross.

God communicated to people in the beginning directly to the patriarchs, later He gave the Law, as many call The Ten Commandments. There was much more to the Law than just 10. The law provided no atoning for sin. Sin could only be rolled forward. As you also correctly pointed out man is weak and no one was able to keep the Law perfectly. So god sent His son to be the ultimate sacrifice and to provide forgiveness of sins. The Bible says the Law was nailed to the cross with Christ. I assume you love your boys, and I also assume you disciplined them. God is perfect and will judge us according to the Bible. The same as we would discipline our own children and not tolerate disobedience, God will not tolerate it either.

Listen, I have been in the pentecostal church all of my life. I have heard all of this before over and over again. And yet from the same people that expouse this, you see behavior that would make Christ cringe - much like that recent posting you did to tried to pull me down. I supposed God led you to do this, or was this why Jesus had to die on the cross. I challenge words, it seems that you like to disparage people, and that is not God like behavior is it?

When you run around getting all preachy, make sure that your behavior and your speech are in sync, or you just become another one of the hundreds of thousands of Christian hypocrites that run around on this earth.

Your recent behavior aimed at me reminds me of one night in Detroit when I was a kid playing the organ at a revival. The speaker had just finished a rousing and moving sermon that had the people running all over the building..it was beautiful. Then he sits down next to another preacher and I heard him whisper this into that preachers ear "okay, I did what I came here for, now where's the ladies at?" This preacher was married.......

Can anyone say"don't do as I do, do as I say".

[Troy]

No wonder this forum has tumbleweeds blowing down main street.

[Mr Peabody]

Terry, you are hilarious. Good try to turn the tables but you my man are the ultimate hypocrit. Calling every one names in your posts is "challenging words"? Right...... I've argued here with very few where you have argued with almost every one, and you are always the first to get nasty.

If you want to reply your foolishness I suggest taking it to the Steel Cage as this thread is about a movie and we've taken the religious aspect as far as we should here.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Terry, you are hilarious. Good try to turn the tables but you my man are the ultimate hypocrit. Calling every one names in your posts is "challenging words"? Right...... I've argued here with very few where you have argued with almost every one, and you are always the first to get nasty.

If you want to reply your foolishness I suggest taking it to the Steel Cage as this thread is about a movie and we've taken the religious aspect as far as we should here.

My name is not Terry, and secondly a mirror can be embarrassing to look into when you know you have done wrong, and are in denial about it...right Peabody!

For all of the name calling I have done, I have never opened up a thread designed to tear somebody down, so attempting to cover your trail by mentioning somebody elses transgressions does not deflect from you own HUGE (and cowardly unsuccessful) one.

Cockroach Christianity.....who needs it! When you turn the lights on them and their mess, the scurry for the walls.

[Troy]

My name is not Terry.

Lighten up, Terry.

[Mr Peabody]

LOL, Terry, I'm not ashamed of the thread I started about you. I'm surprised it bothered you so much but I guess me stating the obvious truth about you did scare you a bit. You and I never got along in the beginning because I can tell a fraud when I see one which is more than I can say for most here. I was quite happy when you left. When you came back I chose just to let your BS ooze all over the board as no one else seemed to ccare. No one else seems to care when you harass people. You should actually thank me for starting the thread. My real intensions were to draw fire from the other threads and put it in a place it wouldn't be so messy. It did help bring things to a head and your lap dog Poppa band most of your out spoken enemies so you should be walking tall. What I didn't realize your flame wars are spontaneous and neither you or those who challenge you are willing to take the issue into a Steel Cage thread. So as long as you are allowed to spew all over the board I guess it is what it is. I know you feel you came out ahead on the Steel Cage but the fact is, one, you didn't address hardly anything I mentioned, and secondly, I let it go and let you have the last word upon request. But even with that you can't move on. And, before you go judging others you need to remove the plank from your own eye my good man.

[3LB]

Lighten up, Terry.

We won't survive as a species unless we can put all religion behind us. Period.