The biggest "LIES" the movies ever told me.

[kexodusc]

How about Farenheit 9-11. The historians and pundits are already tearing this one to shreds as a pack of lies. Moore should stick to filmmaking and leave history to historians. I'm sure he'll make a pile of money though. Finally some garbage we can export to France for a change instead of always importing theirs.

I'm no fan of George W. Bush, but Farenheit 9-11 was just too much for me... It was just plain insulting to any intelligent human being.

Moore: Don't bore us with rediculous conspiracy theories based on loose facts that you've twisted and mangled beyond reality. Bush doesn't need your help to lose the election.

I'm really nervous that too many people will accept that movie as a documentary instead of a mockumentary. After all, if it's on TV, it's got to be real, right?

[Worf101]

I haven't seen it yet, so I've no opinion. As for Mr. Moore's work I loved "Roger & Me". I thought Bowling for Columbine was "so so". I did NOT like what he did to Mr. Heston at the end. I'm no right-wing, beer swilling, gun nut... but there's a thing called basic respect and there are things you don't do in another man's home. Simple as that.

I've no opinion on 911 cause I've not seen it. I didn't start this as a "political" thread about the current President or Moore's film... I was just making observations on films I'd seen is all.

Da Worfster

[kexodusc]

I haven't seen it yet, so I've no opinion. As for Mr. Moore's work I loved "Roger & Me". I thought Bowling for Columbine was "so so". I did NOT like what he did to Mr. Heston at the end. I'm no right-wing, beer swilling, gun nut... but there's a thing called basic respect and there are things you don't do in another man's home. Simple as that.

I've no opinion on 911 cause I've not seen it. I didn't start this as a "political" thread about the current President or Moore's film... I was just making observations on films I'd seen is all.

Da Worfster

(Not to hi-jack your great thread, Worf)
It's the respect part that bugs me the most about the 9-11. Whether I like it or not, Bush is my President. There are parts of the movie that really get you thinking, but in the end, I just didn't find it appropriate. It felt too much like I was watching anti-Bush propoganda, coming from a "holier-than-thou" film director with a personal agenda, instead of an artist or film-making american exercise free-speech or whatever.

Mostly, it was a theater full of young people that would rather take the film as gospel truth than think for themselves that bothered me, I think. I guess you could argue that's not Moore's fault, but he has a certain responsibility, I think.

From a purely entertainment point of view - I won't lie and say I wasn't glued to the movie.

I encourage people to watch it and come to their own conclusions.

For the record, I consider my self a centralist, beer-swilling, Blues-nut.

[Lexmark3200]

I totally agree, Worf, regarding Pearl Harbor, thats for sure.....I have this on my want list but ONLY for the demo quality sound I keep hearing about regarding the DVD....otherwise, what a WASTE of nearly three hours (is that correct?)....the whole love triangle thing was stupid and complete nonesense......GOD FORBID Hollywood churns out a film based on HISTORICAL ACCURACIES without some god damnned love story attached to it like Titanic or Pearl Harbor....they are afraid that the majority of numskulls that pile into theaters today and stuff their fat asses with "THE TUB" of popcorn just wont sit through something without some sappy love story attached to it....so straight-up history films, holding respect to what ACTUALLY HAPPENED during these events, get thrown out the window....

How about these for inaccurate historical documentation, as well? (granted, I have both of these in my collection for their action value and DVD presentations): The Patriot and U-571. I have read that both of these are horribly inaccurate in the events they portray.

[eisforelectronic]

All the sound effects in U-571 were recorded using the actual items to make those sounds. At least something was accurate in that movie. Also 8 chnl SDDS was originally chosen for the movie's audio because the 5 front chnls would provide greater total sound pressure for the depth charge scenes.

[Hairsonfire]

majority of numskulls that pile into theaters today and stuff their fat asses with "THE TUB" of popcorn

That's great! You elitist snob! I love it!

[IsmaVA]

I'm no fan of George W. Bush, but Farenheit 9-11 was just too much for me... It was just plain insulting to any intelligent human being.

Moore: Don't bore us with rediculous conspiracy theories based on loose facts that you've twisted and mangled beyond reality. Bush doesn't need your help to lose the election.

I'm really nervous that too many people will accept that movie as a documentary instead of a mockumentary. After all, if it's on TV, it's got to be real, right?

About F 9/11 . . . Moore opinions are definitively on the propaganda side and his movie maybe 90% opinion and a mere 10% fact . . .however, there is a $10K for anybody who can point out one factual error . . .so far no takers . . .

[skeptic]

Sometimes lies can be propagated not by what is said but by what is omitted or by taking facts out of context to trick the viewer into drawing the opposite conclusion than he otherwise would. Moviemakers and other storytellers are excellent at that technique. That's why we leave history to professional historians and not to partisans wanting to influence current political debate by trying to disguise opinion as history.

[kexodusc]

Sometimes lies can be propagated not by what is said but by what is omitted or by taking facts out of context to trick the viewer into drawing the opposite conclusion than he otherwise would. Moviemakers and other storytellers are excellent at that technique. That's why we leave history to professional historians and not to partisans wanting to influence current political debate by trying to disguise opinion as history.

I would just add that there is an infamous sick-o Nazi sympathizer organization in Europe that has indisputable proof that the Holocaust did not occur, with a similar cash prize for disproving their factual evidence. It's been around since the 50's or 60's.
Just goes to show the power of manipulation, and how dangerous ignorance can be.

Hey, we all believed Oswald killed JFK, too. Funny, didn't a movie change that opinion and even prompt the government to accelerate the de-classifcation of those files by some 20 - 30 years?

[IsmaVA]

Yeap, I would agree with both of you (Skeptic and Kexodusc) . . .however, Kex comment only proves that nobody can really cry "Lies, Lies, Lies!!!" either way . . .


In the end, it is just a matter of opinions . . .

[skeptic]

"In the end, it is just a matter of opinions"

NO!
Historians look at ALL of the facts and try to weave them into a complete tapestry with the advantage of hindsight and time to reflect on them and what they mean. They may have different interpretations of what different people were thinking, they may disagree on nuances, and sometimes the facts may be incomplete leading them to the admission if they are honest that unless and until further evidence is uncovered, it is not possible to draw any firm conclusions. Moore and those like him have done none of this. They have a political agenda for the here and now, make no bones about it, and try to present this biased view as factual history. This alone makes them a pack of liars.

[kexodusc]

This may not be quite the same, but I really get pissed off when movie directors re-write a super-hero's history to their own liking.
When did Spiderman get web making organs in his hands? What happened to the little web shooter devices?
And The Hulk...let's not go there.

My all time biggest let down was "Masters of the Universe". Other than the loose character likeness, and use of names and images, there was NOTHING He-Man about that movie. Dolf Lundgren...Pffff!!!!

[IsmaVA]

My friend, being a skeptic myself I don't want to get into a useless argument, but Historians are nothing more that the writers of the OFFICAL opinion . . .you would be amazed at the factual differences between "history" as chronicled by historians of different backgrounds.

Yes, Moore has a political agenda, just as everybody else . . . believing that any version of the "facts" is devoid of interpretation, perception and personal mythology is, IMHO, as naive as believing in the tooth fairy.

It is just a matter of choosing who and what to believe . . .