Emotiva XDA-1 Initial Impressions

[harley .guy07]

Another question is are you going to keep your amp now as well or is it in the mix to change since you obviously have taken it off your equipment list?

[TheHills44060]

Note: if the volume issue is not resolved, then I won't be recommending any Emotiva products in the future....

...and my Emotiva gear will vanish from my signature.

You are the biggest hypocrite ever. What the hell have I been saying about Emotiva this whole time!?!?!

I have been openly anti-Emotiva and am constantly trying to suggest other options and what do you do? You claim that I must have, "...never heard an Emotiva amp" and called me a liar. Now look at you hahahaha. What a complete 180 you have turned...such a joke. How's that humble pie Ajani, tasty?

[Ajani]

Boy, you must be miffed, you were happy with your amp and you even took that out. I wonder if it was a rush to market, no testing of the product or they just didn't think it too big a deal. This can't be a good thing for Emo, they were growing fast by word of mouth and things could go the other direction just as quick. And, in this economy to boot.

Are you past your return period?

I can still return but I'd lose about $120 on shipping to and from.... So I'd rather just keep it...

The sound is ok, but I am really irritated with the way the addressed the complaints about the volume control. They refused to acknowledged that it was a mistake, despite users showing clearly that

1) Emo inplemented a linear rather than logarithmic volume control - which is contrary to just about every volume control in audio...

2) The wording on the website (which has since been changed) claimed the volume could be adjusted in 0.5db steps, which clearly means a logarithmic volume control...

Also on a poll on the Emo forums, 32 of 42 persons (76%) who use the XDA as a digital pre are having problems with the volume control.

IMO, their official response sounds as if they may do us a favour and correct the issue in some way, but they may just not bother. Further if we are not happy we should just return the unit and eat the shipping loss.

Most of don't mind eating a shipping loss if we don't like the sound (as that is a clear risk you take), but not for a design defect...

[Ajani]

You are the biggest hypocrite ever. What the hell have I been saying about Emotiva this whole time!?!?!

I have been openly anti-Emotiva and am constantly trying to suggest other options and what do you do? You claim that I must have, "...never heard an Emotiva amp" and called me a liar. Now look at you hahahaha. What a complete 180 you have turned...such a joke. How's that humble pie Ajani, tasty?

Nope. You're opinion is still based on ignorance. As you have no experience with Emotiva. So you are still just trolling opinions without fact or experience.

Unlike you I am honest and will admit when I am happy and also when I am disatisfied with a product. You just bash products and other users because you can.

[Ajani]

Another question is are you going to keep your amp now as well or is it in the mix to change since you obviously have taken it off your equipment list?

I am keeping the amp as I still regard it as an excellent value for money, but I removed it from my signature as I don't feel comfortable recommending Emotiva due to their current behaviour.

[TheHills44060]

Nope. You're opinion is still based on ignorance. As you have no experience with Emotiva. So you are still just trolling opinions without fact or experience.

Unlike you I am honest and will admit when I am happy and also when I am disatisfied with a product. You just bash products and other users because you can.

I have heard Emotiva amps and I do not like them simple as that. I have not heard their preamps, processors, dac or speakers and have never commented on them specifically. If you actually read my posts you see that i have been dissatisfied with other gear as well. Why can nobody else but you have an opinion and like one product but not another?

You turn into a cry baby as soon as someone says something negative about a product you own and your only defense is to wipe the tears away from your eyes and claim the person hasn't heard the item.

[harley .guy07]

Why do people have to be immature on here about who said what and what others have or have not heard. My family earlier in time believed in Ford products until they had a couple of bad experiences with them and changed their mind on what kind of automobiles they were really putting out and the customer service that they had. Before that time we were quite content with them. My point is that sometimes you can get involved in a companies products with one good purchase that you like and then have a bad experience which will make it a bittersweet thought about the company. It does not mean that Ajani is a hypocrite or that he does not know anything that he was talking about its just that he had a bad experience with a product and brand that he once believed in. I think going through life everyone has experienced this with companies of about any product produced at some point or another. I really think that THE HILLS needs to grow and face the fact that what he is doing is acting like a kid and needs to worry about acting like an adult instead of trying to belittle other people for trying products and having legit problems with them and Hell I have been plugging PS audio because I have loved the dac that I have but if I bought a power conditioner from them and it had problems and they would not help me I would be in the same predicament as ajani is. Now I know that PS audio is a better brand and I don't think that this would happen with them in a million years but still to say what you have said just because he has had problems with a company that he believed in at one time is something that happens every day and you being a little preschooler about it(The Hills) does not do anything but make you look like an ass to everyone else on this forum.

[harley .guy07]

Sorry to anyone that had to read my rant I am just tired of the poking back and forth on this forum about who likes what and who told someone what. It gets old hearing the same old damn arguments about flat panel or box speakers or tube or SS equipment and which brands are better than others and what brands people think are crap and the such. I know that a friendly debate over these topics helps build knowledge and is not harmful in any way but to act like children back and forth to each other is just not very adult in my opinion and as a forum trying to attract new audiophiles to this site is not going to attract them by putting posts slamming each other and acting like kids. If we are going to keep this site together and keep people interested I think going the adult route is going to be a better way to do it don't you think

[Ajani]

Sorry to anyone that had to read my rant I am just tired of the poking back and forth on this forum about who likes what and who told someone what. It gets old hearing the same old damn arguments about flat panel or box speakers or tube or SS equipment and which brands are better than others and what brands people think are crap and the such. I know that a friendly debate over these topics helps build knowledge and is not harmful in any way but to act like children back and forth to each other is just not very adult in my opinion and as a forum trying to attract new audiophiles to this site is not going to attract them by putting posts slamming each other and acting like kids. If we are going to keep this site together and keep people interested I think going the adult route is going to be a better way to do it don't you think

I appreciate your response... I have had to report the Hills twice for following me around threads and launching nasty personal attacks... He has been reprimanded twice and is under threat of being banned, yet he feels the need to come into this thread to start the personal attacks again. I am really disappointed that instead of being able to have a legitimate debate, he insists on just pointlessly attacking me...

[Ajani]

I have heard Emotiva amps and I do not like them simple as that.

Then you should have said that any one of the dozen or so times that another forum member or myself has asked you for what Emotiva gear you've auditioned. Had you done that there would have been no debate. You chose to never answer the question directly and hence be rightfully accused of not having auditioned the gear you kept bashing.

[TheHills44060]

Then you should have said that any one of the dozen or so times that another forum member or myself has asked you for what Emotiva gear you've auditioned. Had you done that there would have been no debate. You chose to never answer the question directly and hence be rightfully accused of not having auditioned the gear you kept bashing.

I have repeatedly over and over and over...and explained what i don't like about them but you never bother to read my posts. Instead you cry to the admins. You were the one made false claims with no proof. All i ever did was say that i don't like a particular brand of amplifier. You need to be more accepting of people's opinions.

But again this thread proves who you are without me having to say anything. Who am I? "I love Emotiva!!!!! oh wait...I hate Emotiva!!! hahaha

[Ajani]

I have repeatedly over and over and over...and explained what i don't like about them but you never bother to read my posts. Instead you cry to the admins. You were the one made false claims with no proof. All i ever did was say that i don't like a particular brand of amplifier. You need to be more accepting of people's opinions, grow some balls and get a girlfriend or something.

But again this thread proves who you are without me having to say anything. Who am I? "I love Emotiva!!!!! oh wait...I hate Emotiva!!! hahaha

Another post where you resort to personal attacks. Since you want to be banned, I will be reporting this one as well.

[TheHills44060]

Another post where you resort to personal attacks. Since you want to be banned, I will be reporting this one as well.

Go for it. You know Adam deserves a huge xmas gift for all of the extra work he's had to do listening to you whine. You take things so damn seriously it's comical.

Btw you never answered my PM. I am really interested in the answer.

[Ajani]

Go for it. You know Adam deserves a huge xmas gift for all of the extra work he's had to do listening to you whine. You take things so damn seriously it's comical.

Btw you never answered my PM. I am really interested in the answer.

Do you really believe that I would divulge any personal information to someone who stalks me around an online forum just to make nasty remarks? I will not be responding to your PM. So don't hold your breath waiting for it.

[TheHills44060]

The answer is obvious anyway. There is no way in hell you are in a position to be vacationing anywhere.

Anyway....it's very refreshing you finally saw the light about your beloved Emotiva. A year from now you will be thanking me.

[Ajani]

Anyway to get this thread back on track:

Today (shockingly after some heavy debates on the Emo forums) this announcement was made:

Hello one and all,

Well we finished the testing of the revised code which will change the taper of the volume control from linear to log. We realize some of you would prefer this to give you better low level volume control over the DAC as it steps off from the 0 point. So we have decided to offer this as an alternative code set anyone who would like it. What you will need to do is call and get a RA#. Send it in so we can re-program and test it and we will ship it back to you.

For our international customers, we haven’t forgotten about you. At present we don’t have everything worked out as to the best way to take care of you, but we will make it as painless as possible. For the time being, please just send an email to customerservice@emotiva.com and tell them you want to get on the list to change the volume control on your XDA-1. Once we have it all worked out, we will contact you and let you know.

As always, thanks to everyone for their support and feedback.

Lonnie

Of course it is not an admission of a mistake nor does it say whether international customers will be stuck with a heavy shipping cost, should they request the volume fix, but at least it's a start...

I still won't be recommending Emotiva at this time, as there is no resolution available for me and I feel the product launch of the XDA-1 and the response to customer complaints, should have been handled much better than it was...

[Geoffcin]

Let's keep the personal attacks out of this thread. Got an opinion? State it and that's it! There's no room on these forums for ANY personal attacks.

Consider yourself warned.

[harley .guy07]

Let's keep the personal attacks out of this thread. Got an opinion? State it and that's it! There's no room on these forums for ANY personal attacks.

Consider yourself warned.

Thank you for this. It does get old to hear someone personally attack someones opinion or a change of opinion based on personal experience. I don't believe there is any room for that in adulthood and especially in a forum full of people that are supposed to be intelligent in audio and also have some sort of politeness too each other because we are all brothers in the audio world and are trying to get to the same thing, our own audio heaven and even though your audio heaven might be different from mine due to opinion,personal tastes and the fact that human hearing varies from person to person. I think we kind of need to get back on track with helping each other out and having friendly debates about audio and even though opinions are what they are we can still be friends and discuss the subjects at hand.

[poppachubby]

Hey Ajani, so sorry to hear about these issues. I have admired Emotiva from afar, their products and philosophy seem great.

I would assume that this is their first real issue, so you must understand that they are green in terms of how to follow up. If companies like BP can drop the ball in the face of a major environmental disaster, Emotiva should be allowed SOME slack.

That said, I am not defending their actions. Just saying give them a couple of chances to make this thing right, and make you happy.

As for the product itself, sounds like you should have gone with the Beresford dac that everyone is screaming about. I know how you feel about the gain problem. My EICO is notoiriously hot, the pot is useful from zero to only a quarter turn. It's an art setting a listenable volume, but one that I have grown accustomed to.

Keep us posted. I suspect this subject will be Googled by potential customers in the future, so details will be a helpful thing.

[Ajani]

Hey Ajani, so sorry to hear about these issues. I have admired Emotiva from afar, their products and philosophy seem great.

I would assume that this is their first real issue, so you must understand that they are green in terms of how to follow up. If companies like BP can drop the ball in the face of a major environmental disaster, Emotiva should be allowed SOME slack.

That said, I am not defending their actions. Just saying give them a couple of chances to make this thing right, and make you happy.

As for the product itself, sounds like you should have gone with the Beresford dac that everyone is screaming about. I know how you feel about the gain problem. My EICO is notoiriously hot, the pot is useful from zero to only a quarter turn. It's an art setting a listenable volume, but one that I have grown accustomed to.

Keep us posted. I suspect this subject will be Googled by potential customers in the future, so details will be a helpful thing.

I see your point but the problem is that they already had a lot of complaints around the UMC launch... And this one was even worse than that...

The issue was quickly identified by forum members as being an incorrect implementation of the volume control (not gain as many of us initially thought)...

Instead of addressing the issue immediately, we noticed that the wording of the website changed from claiming exact volume control of 0.5db steps to meaningless terminology

Internal Volume Control: Digitally controlled in increments of 0.5 steps

What is a 0.5 step? 0.5db makes sense and is why persons expected a very accurate volume control. The new wording left some persons wondering if we were being cheated in some way...

Another issue is that all the units shipped with no manual. Which means there were not even any safety instructions included. Even just to prevent a lawsuit by someone misusing your product, safety instructions can't be left out.

Up to now, the issue of volume and the manual have not been satisfactorily addressed for all persons... The wording of the official responses basically say that some users want a different volume implementation. That is totally different from admitting that a mistake was made and we received an incorrect volume implementation. So some persons feel like they are getting smoke blown up their @$$#$. Also we still don't know if we will have to pay the shipping costs to and from Emo and whether we'll have to pay for the volume change...

Yes, the company is still relatively young, but they really need to handle situations like this a lot better...

Many persons (myself included) have openly questioned whether Emotiva is turning out too many new products. The share number of delays mean that products have been talked about for almost 2 years before they finally hit the market and when they finally are released there are a slew of complaints about some issue or the other (UMC and XDA). While it is good that Emotiva is attempting to address the issues, the question still remains of whether products should hit the market in such a condition... IMO, they would do well to focus on producing less products and ensuring that each product is completely ready for release, rather than trying to rush out several products at once...

Emotiva is a small company, yet they have 2 lines of monoblocks, stereo and MC amps (and a third line is set to be released early next year). a preamp and processor (another line of both to be released early next year), a CD player, a DAC, a line of speakers (another line to be released early next year), two lines of cables and interconnects + a few accessories... Frankly, they are setting themselves up for failure... That's just way too many products to be checked by a small company...

[poppachubby]

Do they produce their own stuff? I agree it's alot of gear in a small amount of time, they are simply trying to get their slice of the pie. Strike while the iron is hot. Their name has been well regarded, and they are trying to cash in.

You are correct however, this is the fallout of too much, too soon. The faster you move things through production, this includes the entire process, the more mistakes will be made. QA becomes harder to implement and sometimes ignored all together.

It would seem that they are trying to cover their tracks for any potential customers who may be considering a purchase. As for owners, I guess we'll see where uit goes.

Good luck. BTW, have you looked at the Beresford? Maybe you should just count your losses and get one. I'm sure with some insistance, Emotiva will pick up the shipping.

http://www.beresford-dac.com/

[Ajani]

Do they produce their own stuff? I agree it's alot of gear in a small amount of time, they are simply trying to get their slice of the pie. Strike while the iron is hot. Their name has been well regarded, and they are trying to cash in.

You are correct however, this is the fallout of too much, too soon. The faster you move things through production, this includes the entire process, the more mistakes will be made. QA becomes harder to implement and sometimes ignored all together.

It would seem that they are trying to cover their tracks for any potential customers who may be considering a purchase. As for owners, I guess we'll see where uit goes.

Good luck. BTW, have you looked at the Beresford? Maybe you should just count your losses and get one. I'm sure with some insistance, Emotiva will pick up the shipping.

http://www.beresford-dac.com/

I think I'll keep the XDA and hopefully it will smooth out in time (or at least when I change speakers)... Worse case I'll use it as an excuse to add a tube pre to the setup...

If I was to go for another DAC, I'd want to save up $1K and try the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1, which I believe has a remote (I know the DAC-2 definitely does)...

[harley .guy07]

As far as I know Pappa they engineer a lot of their stuff and have a production company in china build it for them to their specs. this company also builds components and parts for other companies so really they don't make their own stuff but they do design it or at least have a good control over the design. I do understand that a company can get something wrong from time to time and I completely see that but in this case something that would seem like a very simple catch to slip through the tracks and get to the public is a little concerning. I figure it is a very simple fix but to have all of these units shipped back to them for this fix while people sit there and wait would make me a little angry to say the least. Benchmark,PS audio and many others have came out with awesome dacs that work like a well oiled tool from the word go and never need to be sent back or "fixed" so in this regard I am not impressed especially from a component that have no moving parts or have a over the top complicated design. It it was a transport with a motor problem or a something I think I would be much more accepting of this issue but a volume adjustment setting that effects this whole units ability to work with other components downstream should be caught in pre production and dealt with. Just my 2 cents for what they are worth. And ending this statement I am not by any means saying that their amplifiers and other components are bad in fact I have heard their cd player and it is a awesome unit for the money and seems to hold its own against way more expensive units.

[Ajani]

As far as I know Pappa they engineer a lot of their stuff and have a production company in china build it for them to their specs. this company also builds components and parts for other companies so really they don't make their own stuff but they do design it or at least have a good control over the design. I do understand that a company can get something wrong from time to time and I completely see that but in this case something that would seem like a very simple catch to slip through the tracks and get to the public is a little concerning. I figure it is a very simple fix but to have all of these units shipped back to them for this fix while people sit there and wait would make me a little angry to say the least. Benchmark,PS audio and many others have came out with awesome dacs that work like a well oiled tool from the word go and never need to be sent back or "fixed" so in this regard I am not impressed especially from a component that have no moving parts or have a over the top complicated design. It it was a transport with a motor problem or a something I think I would be much more accepting of this issue but a volume adjustment setting that effects this whole units ability to work with other components downstream should be caught in pre production and dealt with. Just my 2 cents for what they are worth. And ending this statement I am not by any means saying that their amplifiers and other components are bad in fact I have heard their cd player and it is a awesome unit for the money and seems to hold its own against way more expensive units.

I certainly don't want to become a straight out Emotiva basher, as I am satisfied with my XPA-2, but I just can't fathom why there were so many silly mistakes with the XDA-1... It really just seems like quality control took a hit.. Even a simple issue like that they clearly overtightened the screws on my remote with a machine (not a screwdriver)... Three of the screw-heads have stripped rather than turning. so I'll have to get a pro to remove them... Little things like that are just poor quality control... someone should realize that a screw that you intend for customers to regularly remove (to change batteries) should be so easy to remove that child could do it, and not an exercise in frustration for the customer...

Sadly the XDA-1 really should be a winner and an easy recommendation: It is a beautiful visual match to the Emotiva amps, has great features (a remote is virtually unheard of at the price) and respectable (though bright at the moment) sound quality... Yet the issues just make it impossible for me to recommend at this time... And the response to the issues just leaves me unwilling to recommend Emotiva in general...

I really hope they take the criticisms they received in a positive manner and use it to ensure that future product launches can get unreserved recommendations from all their customers, and not just the most die-hard fanboys on the Emotiva forums...

[harley .guy07]

To add to this thread I will say again that I am not against Emotiva or anything they are doing I just think they might try to test a little more before coming out with products since they have a lot of trusted customers and are a price leader for people just trying to get their start into a higher end audio than your receiver speaker world or what I like to call your "Best Buy" world. I would hope that they take care of everyone on this and make good on their promises of a good dac for the money. Did I really expect it to compare to my PS audio or Ajani's benchmark will no but at 1 4th the price I was not anticipating that to begin with but I would expect a unit that could get a working class person with children and a mortgage and all the other payments we have to make nowadays into a good quality sounding unit for the price tag. I know that their amps are well built and deliver the power and while some don't like their amps but these people have already stepped passed Emotiva and are on a different level of audio and have spent way more. I have not personally heard any of their amps but would not mind hearing one seeing that they do not sell for a lot and give a lot of power and have a following especially their monoblock amps which seem to be the cheapest monoblock amps on the planet for what they can do. I am not a fanboy nor a emo attacker I just think they are a great beginning to the world that is far more quality oriented than your Sony receiver at your local electronics outlet which by the way is what most people see and why most people especially younger people don't know that there is a higher quality out there to be had. Heck I just had some guests over for the weekend from out of town that have never heard of ps audio, dynaudio or most of the brands of stuff that I own except for Yamaha and samsung and they were astounded at what difference a good quality dac and speakers made to my system and I explained everything from my Dac to my Adcom amp too them. Guess what they are going to get a hold of me after tax season in order to get them on the road to a better music system as well.