Burson op amps for MH DAC23.2

[Luvin Da Blues]

I ran across this interesting thread on Canuck Audio Mart. This looks like a promising upgrade for my Music Hall DAC. Does anyone have experience with these or have any comments? Thanks in advance - LDB

•http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum...p?f=21&t=12887

[Feanor]

I ran across this interesting thread on Canuck Audio Mart. This looks like a promising upgrade for my Music Hall DAC. Does anyone have experience with these or have any comments? Thanks in advance - LDB

•http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum...p?f=21&t=12887

As audiophile tweaks go, the Burson discrete opamps look like a relative bargain. It's speculation on my part but I suspect you'd hear more difference installing a Burson opamp than you might upgrading you interconnects to various mid-range models that cost several times as much.

On the other hand opamps tend to get a worse reputation than they deserve largely, I gather, because the early ones were relatively awful. Current ones are much better.

A few common opamps I've heard of, (I'm no expert) are:

• NE5532 (dual) or NE5534 (single) -- a decent, very commonly used, unit targeted at audio application.
• OPA2134 (dual) or OPA134 (single) -- a step up, according to some, for audio application.
• OPA627 (single) -- considered by some the "ultimate" audio opamp. The OPA627AU costs a relatively exhorbitant US$24.95, (see Parts ConneXion). I have seen pairs of OPA627 mounted in an 8-pin DIP adaptor (to replace a dual such as the NE5532) for under US$30 on eBay.

I'm a cheapskate but I'd be inclined to try OPA627's before springing for the Burson. (Note that the OPA627, even a paired module, will fit in tight spaces that the Burson will not.)

[Luvin Da Blues]

Thanks Bill,

The OPA627 at $25 is quite a bit cheaper that the $63 each the OP paid for the Bursons. I'm sure both would be consideable upgrades.

[Luvin Da Blues]

I would imagine that this would void my warranty. I should probably wait until the one year expires in December.

[Feanor]

I would imagine that this would void my warranty. I should probably wait until the one year expires in December.

I'm just curious: are the DAC25.2 opamps DIPs in sockets or DIPs soldered directly to the board? Or are they surface mounts? Personally I'm not sufficiently confident of my soldering skills to attempt to swap surface mounts.

Of course Parts ConneXion will mod you Music Hall for you with OPA627s or Bursons -- but not for cheap.

[Luvin Da Blues]

I'm just curious: are the DAC25.2 opamps DIPs in sockets or DIPs soldered directly to the board? Or are they surface mounts? Personally I'm not sufficiently confident of my soldering skills to attempt to swap surface mounts.

Of course Parts ConneXion will mod you Music Hall for you with OPA627s or Bursons -- but not for cheap.

My next step is determining the mounting configuration. I haven't opened the DAC up yet. I'm hoping for sockets but I have no problem with board level soldering. I'm not a cheapskate but wouldn't pay someone money for something I have time, equipment and skills to do.

I found this video but nothing new here.

[02audionoob]

My MH CD-25 has the 627's. I have a hard time remembering what the dang thing sounds like without my PS Audio DLIII. But then again, I spin so much vinyl, I'm beginning to forget the DLIII, as well.

[Luvin Da Blues]

My MH CD-25 has the 627's. I have a hard time remembering what the dang thing sounds like without my PS Audio DLIII. But then again, I spin so much vinyl, I'm beginning to forget the DLIII, as well.

Did you change to the 627s or are they stock units. I would think that the DAC would come with the same opamps as the CD player.

[02audionoob]

Did you change to the 627s or are they stock units. I would think that the DAC would come with the same opamps as the CD player.

It's a Parts Connexion mod. Stock is 2604.

[02audionoob]

I don't know anything more about this stuff than you, but - given that that CD-25 has two op-amps and no balanced signal, maybe it's the 3rd op-amp that is for the balanced signal. The summaries of the mods at Underwood Hifi indicate the replacement of three op-amps, but it makes sense that you could do just the 2134s. Maybe you could get some free advice from the seller of the op-amps.

[02audionoob]

This is good to know. Now I can assume the 627's are helping the sound quality of my CD player like they're helping your DAC.

[blackraven]

The 627's can dramatically change the sound. I changed the OP amps in my Music Hall 25.2CDP and it changed the sound of the player from a very open and airy sound to a more aggressive and forward sound with less transparency. For me the mod did not work out.

[Feanor]

The 627's can dramatically change the sound. I changed the OP amps in my Music Hall 25.2CDP and it changed the sound of the player from a very open and airy sound to a more aggressive and forward sound with less transparency. For me the mod did not work out.

Which goe goes to prove that you need to try them with an open mind. LDB's experience with replacing 2134s with 627s was positive, but replacing the 2604 with a 2134 was negative despite the generally better reputation of the latter.

In LDB's DAC, since the 2604 and 2134 are not dissimilar in price, it is probably because overall circuit exploits the subtle qualities of the former, and that's presumably why the designer used it in the first place.

But the use of a 2134 vs. a 627 is another matter, given the latter is several times more expensive than the former. That is, the designer might compromise best design in this case only to save money.

LDB, you might consider replacing the 2604 with a 627 pair and see what happens.

[Luvin Da Blues]

.....LDB, you might consider replacing the 2604 with a 627 pair and see what happens.

Just what I was thinking.

[joshcloud9]

I am just wanting to check that the 2134 is a dual channel, therefore replacing two of them would require 4 of the expensive 627's -- is that correct?

Thanks

[Luvin Da Blues]

I am just wanting to check that the 2134 is a dual channel, therefore replacing two of them would require 4 of the expensive 627's -- is that correct?

Thanks

That's correct. You can order 2 627s mounted on a single socket here. This auction is for two dual mounted sockets.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Cheers
LDB

[jrhymeammo]

HEY LDB,

Can you tell me what capacitors and resistors are used for the stock unit?
I am pretty unsatisfied with my MF X-CAN V8, and it seem modification for the unit is not recommended due to its circuit board.

Thanks,
JRA

[Luvin Da Blues]

HEY LDB,

Can you tell me what capacitors and resistors are used for the stock unit?
I am pretty unsatisfied with my MF X-CAN V8, and it seem modification for the unit is not recommended due to its circuit board.

Thanks,
JRA

Hey J, I took a look when I had the cover off awhile back but I'll be damned if I can remember now. I have a day off today so I'll look in a while and let you know then.

Cheers,
LDB

[Luvin Da Blues]

J, The MH uses Rubycon caps and metal oxide film resistors (1% tolerance).

FYI, the 6922 tube is used only on the SE outputs. I have both the balanced and SE connected and switch between them depending on the recording and source. I find although the tube sound is great for vocals it seems to collapse the sound-stage a bit too much for certain types of music.
Any suggestions on what I should start with when I start to roll tubes?

LDB

[jrhymeammo]

J, The MH uses Rubycon caps and metal oxide film resistors (1% tolerance).

FYI, the 6922 tube is used only on the SE outputs. I have both the balanced and SE connected and switch between them depending on the recording and source. I find although the tube sound is great for vocals it seems to collapse the sound-stage a bit too much for certain types of music.
Any suggestions on what I should start with when I start to roll tubes?

LDB

Thanks LDB,
Rubycon caps for a unit under $600? That's pretty impressive.

There are plenty of cheap 6922/6DJ8/6H23 tubes out there. You don't neccesarily have to spend hundreds on NOS tubes to find the sound you love. I love the sound of cheap Sovtek compared to Electro-Harmonix. EH has more transparent but less involving sound to my ears.

Have Fun,
JRA

[Feanor]

J, The MH uses Rubycon caps and metal oxide film resistors (1% tolerance).

FYI, the 6922 tube is used only on the SE outputs. I have both the balanced and SE connected and switch between them depending on the recording and source. I find although the tube sound is great for vocals it seems to collapse the sound-stage a bit too much for certain types of music.
Any suggestions on what I should start with when I start to roll tubes?

LDB

I tried half a dozen different 6922s in my Sonic Frontiers preamp. The SF is notoriously neutral, almost solid state sounding so I looked around from something that would make just bit more tube-like. The tubes I like best were these Amperex USA white label 'PQ'. Smooth, detailed sound with that great tube illusion of depth. I bought these used, not NOS, for US$86; (true NOS would have been about 4x that price).

[Luvin Da Blues]

I tried half a dozen different 6922s in my Sonic Frontiers preamp. The SF is notoriously neutral, almost solid state sounding so I looked around from something that would make just bit more tube-like. The tubes I like best were these Amperex USA white label 'PQ'. Smooth, detailed sound with that great tube illusion of depth. I bought these used, not NOS, for US$86; (true NOS would have been about 4x that price).

I've heard that about the PQ whites. Sounds like what I want from a tube. Good to hear it from someone here on AR. A little pricey for a used tube but I only need one and that's a small price to pay for sonic bliss? Mucho Gracias Feanor

[nightflier]

LDB, I was surprised to hear that you were already wanting to change the MH DAC. If you remember, I returned mine not too soon after I auditioned it because it did not improve over the sound of the source. I was going to try a different tube, but decided to return it while I still could. But this got me thinking of maybe upgrading my player, then.

Anyhow, next time you open her up, can you take a picture of what the DAC looks like with the new op amps?

[Luvin Da Blues]

LDB, I was surprised to hear that you were already wanting to change the MH DAC. If you remember, I returned mine not too soon after I auditioned it because it did not improve over the sound of the source. I was going to try a different tube, but decided to return it while I still could. But this got me thinking of maybe upgrading my player, then.

Anyhow, next time you open her up, can you take a picture of what the DAC looks like with the new op amps?

I was happy with the MH and I didn't have a deliberate plan in mind but after reading about the op-amp swap for $40 I had to try it, glad I did. I find the 6922 tube collapses the sound field when I use the SE cables so I was wondering if a tube swap could help this out.


My camera is FUBAR'd and since I don't take many pics it may be awhile before I replace it. I could take a pic with the cell phone but......



Here is the link to the op-amps

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

and a pic of the innards are posted somewhere in this thread.

Cheers
LDB

[nightflier]

Sorry to hear about the camera, but I'm glad you like the upgrade. The tube in the MH DAC has been the topic of quite a few discussions. Most of what I've read suggests that while it provides an improvement in one area, there will be a shortcoming in another.

The reason I was hoping to see a picture is because the op amps look pretty sizeable and could be a tight fit. Or maybe that's not the case?