what is the difference in wires?

i know that you can get bbigger guages and better terminal ends but why are brands like monster so much money? is there a good buy to buy wires at a better prices? do better wires change the sound?

when i bought my bose system, the wire were small and nothing special about them.

a bose system is not capapble of resolving cable differences. a larger gauge wire like 16 or 14 gauge MIGHT make a small difference but generally its when you get into real components that these differences come in to play.

He's on the upgrade path and not looking to use the Bose.

Wire can be very controversial. Some people swear by esoteric wires, some don't. It is certainly an area rife with snake oil. Use the biggest gauge that you can of a good solid wire. Stay away from Monster unless it is on clearance. Good purveyors of wire without the astronomical expense and without the snake oil include Parts Express and Blue Jeans Cables.

the best advice at this point is to just get the equipment and use the interconnects that come with it (or get some from monoprice.com) and for speaker wire, go to home depot or Lowe's and get 16 or 14 gauge twinlead wire.

after you are ready to upgrade your equipment to separates of good pedigree (that may take a while), then and only then try some more premium wires in the less than $100 per pair and preferably less to see IF yo hear an improvement.

of speaker wire upgrade, audioquest makes type 4 which is very affordable and sounds very good.

I have to give a nod of approval to the AntiCables. They are a 12 gauge solid core cables. They are $10 a foot for a stereo pair. If you need 7ft cables they will cost you $70 for a stereo pair. I think they are good enough to see you through many system upgrades.

BJC's speaker wire, Belden 12g at 60 cents a foot. No nonsense and cheap. I beleive the 10g is about 80cents/ft. They will be the last speaker wire you buy. Most people cant hear the diffence in wire. With 10-12g you can have long runs and not worry about signal degredation.

" Most people cant hear the diffence in wire"

thats because receivers arent very revealing. whenb you graduate to more refined components, its like going from dirty regular window glass to exquisitely clean ground crystal. the clarity difference can be very obvious.

some people are happy with an ipod.

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Originally Posted by rightaway

i know that you can get bbigger guages and better terminal ends but why are brands like monster so much money? is there a good buy to buy wires at a better prices? do better wires change the sound?

when i bought my bose system, the wire were small and nothing special about them.

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the only time I've ever heard a difference in speaker wire was at a Denon training class between ultra high end ($500.00 per meter) and the basic stuff that usually comes with HTIBs
We spec speaker wire based on the application;4 conductor, UL CL3 rated for in-wall, thicker gage for long runs, plenum for duct work, direct burial, etc..
For general use 16 gage 2 conductor with a decent jacket is good enough

I agree with Tommy here, in the early stages of building a system, don't spend too much time or money on cabling. Buy something that's a notch above bottom-of-the-barrel. For example, I used Acoustic Research Pro II Series cabling for sometime, and frankly with nice results. I then began experimenting with solid core and tinkering with DIY (cheap and fun). Once I had built the most synergistic system I could afford, I moved my focus to cabling.

My most prized cable is a 1M WBT 2020 w/ locking 0101 plugs. These cables proved to be amazing. Infact I was almost put off by them initially as the highs were so incredibly forward. After a few days I grew accustomed to them, they are between my amp and pre amp, and are a major part of my system.

I have no illusions about cabling, I think Tommy's analogy is a good one. They can make small changes in a system, good or bad is up to the listener. However I laugh at people who say there is no difference at all. At the end of the day it's all subjective and you must do what you feel is best for the sound.

I would suggest some research at this stage. Frankly, Audioquest are a great brand and can be had used at excellent prices, usually about 50% off. Sites like Audiogon are a great place to look and get a feel for the market. In most cases you will be buying from an obsessive audiophile, so the cables will be as new. As far as character goes, I have found AQ's to be smooth and laid back, so whether that's what you end up looking for could be a deal breaker.

As I mentioned with the WBTs, they really unleashed all the highs my system could offer, which is exacty what I was after, having an all tube back end.

OK have a great day, all praise unto cable debates...

[QUOTE=poppachubby;369406]I agree with Tommy here, in the early stages of building a system, don't spend too much time or money on cabling.

QUOTE]

Which is why I recommended Blue jean cable speaker wire at 60 cents a foot. I have a $500pr speaker wire that sounds no different in my system than the pair of 10g Blue Jeans cables that I bought. Don't knock'em unless you have heard them. A lot of people with higher end systems use them.

At 60 cents/foot he will not be wasting his money. 20ft for $12 is a lot cheaper than dropping $70pr.

[QUOTE=blackraven;369415]

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Originally Posted by poppachubby

I agree with Tommy here, in the early stages of building a system, don't spend too much time or money on cabling.

QUOTE]

Which is why I recommended Blue jean cable speaker wire at 60 cents a foot. I have a $500pr speaker wire that sounds no different in my system than the pair of 10g Blue Jeans cables that I bought. Don't knock'em unless you have heard them. A lot of people with higher end systems use them.

At 60 cents/foot he will not be wasting his money. 20ft for $12 is a lot cheaper than dropping $70pr.

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I see you have listed your IC's but not your speaker cables. May I ask which $500 speaker cables you own?

[QUOTE=blackraven;369415]

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Originally Posted by poppachubby

I agree with Tommy here, in the early stages of building a system, don't spend too much time or money on cabling.

QUOTE]

Which is why I recommended Blue jean cable speaker wire at 60 cents a foot. I have a $500pr speaker wire that sounds no different in my system than the pair of 10g Blue Jeans cables that I bought. Don't knock'em unless you have heard them. A lot of people with higher end systems use them.

At 60 cents/foot he will not be wasting his money. 20ft for $12 is a lot cheaper than dropping $70pr.

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If you went from stranded to stranded you might not notice a difference. If you are curious about solid core try your advice and try magnet wire in 12 gauge. You might be surprised.

Magnet Wire

Seriously I think you might have fun and be surprised with the results. I might have tried the magnet wire if I knew about it before the AntiCables. Of course I am happy so I will not bother with the magnet wire but I would be interested with your results.

i would really be interested in trying some blue jean wire and if the need comes up, i just might.

i WAS lucky to be in the right place at the right time for my speaker wire-20' pair of kimber 8tc for $50!

[QUOTE=JohnMichael;369427]

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Originally Posted by blackraven

I see you have listed your IC's but not your speaker cables. May I ask which $500 speaker cables you own?

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A few yrs back I bought a pair of Z4 reference cables from Monster (i know, I can hear the laughs) on Ebay for $120, they were selling locally here for $499. They are very well made and at least as thick as a garden hose. They sounded no different than a pair of expensive MIT cables that a friend of mine has.
In addition, we compared BJC IC's to $300pr MIT Shot gun IC's and could tell no difference in a system or PSB Synchronies, Nuforce Model 9se monoblocks and an Acoustic Research preamp. Now I'm not saying that there can't be differences just because I can't hear any because there are too many people that say they can!

Monster Cable Z4ML1010 124740 Z4 Precision Audiophile Speaker Cable with Network Terminators Featuring Time Correct windings at Vanns.com

Cables can make a huge difference - especially silver vs. copper wire. It is really the final step in fine tuning your system to your liking. Silver tends to be very precise if you may - almost harsh in some systems. Copper is more laid back. However, it is very system dependant. Say you have a speaker that is on the laid back side and you want clearer, tighter bas. You could add a silver interconnect from say your DAC to youe pre-amp and so forth until you find the optimal combination. Signal Cable makes excellent silver and copper cables for a decent price so you can experiment.

Cables are interesting to me. I can hear differences in cables when I compare them. On the other hand it takes a week or more in my system to know if the differences are an improvement or something that will begin to grate on the nerves. I once purchased some IC's that were silver plated copper. Initially the detail in female vocals seemed incredible. About two weeks later I could no longer stand to hear most female vocalists through my system. Not all differences are improvements. Differences are easy to hear improvements take a little longer to decide. The cables were sent back during the thirty day trial period.


[QUOTE=blackraven;369444]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

A few yrs back I bought a pair of Z4 reference cables from Monster (i know, I can hear the laughs) on Ebay for $120, they were selling locally here for $499. They are very well made and at least as thick as a garden hose. They sounded no different than a pair of expensive MIT cables that a friend of mine has.
In addition, we compared BJC IC's to $300pr MIT Shot gun IC's and could tell no difference in a system or PSB Synchronies, Nuforce Model 9se monoblocks and an Acoustic Research preamp. Now I'm not saying that there can't be differences just because I can't hear any because there are too many people that say they can!

Monster Cable Z4ML1010 124740 Z4 Precision Audiophile Speaker Cable with Network Terminators Featuring Time Correct windings at Vanns.com

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do you think the gauge of the cable makes a difference in sound? right now i have monster xp. not sure the gauge, it think 12-16 gauge??? powering my Dynaudio's off of a adcom amp. now i have some radioshack 10 gauge wire. do you think i should chance to the radioshack wire?

You will have to try them both to see which sounds best. You might be surprised. I am still surprised at the improvement to my system for my ears that the AntiCables have made. I am liking my Monitor Audio RS6's more than I would have thought. One day we may know why little changes can make a big differences.

Monster XP sounds good and is 16g. For longer runs over 10' higher gauge can be better especially with demanding speakers and a less robust amp. You can never go wrong with heavier gauge speaker wire. If there is no difference in sound then go with the heavier gauge. I tried some 16g wires with my MMG's and they got hot when I played the music loud. So I only use 10-12g. in my systems.

Bigger gauges=better sound

i dont know what gauge my kimber 8tc is but it works well with MY magnepan MMGs driven by an adcom 555II.

I fully agree...Bigger gauges=better sound

when connecting banana clips into the reciever's input, do you screw the input on the reciever all the way in and than put the banana clip speaker wire in

is it a noticeable difference though?

Go one step able bell wire and the bog standard usually included interconnects and you'll be fine. Some people get far into expensive cables whereas if they were blind tested they wouldn't have a clue!

"if they were blind tested they wouldn't have a clue!"

well, not true but if thats where youre at, youre lucky. you wont be spending big bucks on wire.

when you have a receiver, you cant know as most receivers are mid to low fi. with cleaner glass, you see more.

Just stay away from Monster cables. They just buy regular cables and re-sell them as super high tech expensive ones. Rip off.

a cost effective and good sounding speaker wire is the auddioquest type 4. they were given to me gratis when i bought my adcom 555II amp and 565 preamp.

they replaced monster and when i first listened, i thought there was less bass but after a while, i realized the bass definition was tighter and not fat, which is what the monsters were erring at. the top also was cleaner.

yes regular 10-12 ga twin lead is adequate but not what you want if you are refining the sound of your system. the monster was muddying up the low end and i didnt hear it until i substituted the aq for which i had no expectations for.

I have always had good luck with Cardas products, whether you assemble your own or buy pre-made.

Their stuff is not cheap but, it does one of the better jobs of relating cost to sound quality. What I mean is that the more expensive the cable, the better the sound.

I use their 9 gauge cable for my woofers, a bargain by most standards.

Michael Percy carriers many of their DIY products.

Michael Percy Audio Ordering Information

To a large extent differences between wires is an acquired taste. I did learn that the longer I listened (to quality equipment) the better I got at hearing small differences. I think that increase in acuity is one major cause of the upgrade cycle.

Get wire that fellow hobbyists tend to agree as good product with high cost value per foot/meter. I stay away from wires advertized with some mysterious physical quality or nearly magical component.

I have tried making my own cables and know that if ultra pure metals and first class connectors are used, the expected savings tend to disappear. Which is just another way of saying that expensive cables are not the rip off they might seem.

cables with high copper content is better in transfering any signal better than other alloys copper only is best i work with very long cables when installing satellite systems and sound some cables the good ones have verv low resistence the bad can make an 8 ohm speaker measure about 25 ohms with 20 m cable that means power is lost and it sounds slower and dead cable loss or attentution varys with temperature hot days **** sound cold days better try it 4 ur self lay 30m cable on ur roof and test on cold and hot day and hear the difference i know the roon has aircon but some times cables run in the cieling no air con there now we know more mate pure metal is good what cable did u make anyway and how

Herman how about 1000m 10 guage clear cable 4 the cat in the pic only thing i am in south africa bartering still exists here u know as long as it does not chew cables or maby i can give it a roll of cable so u get 900m i love this cat is it urs i had a cat that used 2 play with cables for hours note we are still talking about cable

Ah cables, wires, interconnects, power cords...

:dita:

It's the never-ending story. :biggrin5:

My speakers are tri-wired, with the crossovers at the amplifier end. The short (10 inch) cable from the amplifier to the crossover is Cardas 5 nines 17AWG silver, paralleled 4 times for an aggregate AWG of 11. The main cable(s) run eight feet long, each way.

I used 2 AWG 9 copper Litz in parallel for the woofer. This results in a 6 AWG cable

AWG 17 copper Litz, 5 in parallel for the midrange. This results in a 10 AWG cable

AWG 22 4 nines silver 8 in parallel for the tweeter. This results in a 16 AWG cable

I use heavy gauge Rhodium plated lugs, soldered on. They seem to stay clean and tolerate mechanical abuse. I've had bad luck with bananas since they seem to get lose with age. Gold is good but so expensive that the plating is too thin and is mechanically removed with use.

If memory serves all the above was about $500 in parts, not far off a commercial cable and mine is not sleeved and pretty, although I did shrink sleeve the very ends and I had to provide my own labor.

The crossover and cable configuration are the result of many, many hours of listening to various combinations. The only generic answer is that a heavier gauge always seems to sound better for woof, mid or tweeter. My cables gauges were limited by cost.

Personally I cant hear the difference. Then again I'm not a dog.

dj-

"Personally I cant hear the difference"

as you havent listed your equipment, we cant know if it is capable of distinguishing between wires.

its not all about high frequencies, its about imaging differences, dynamics across the audible range of frequencies, tonal coloration, and other things that cannot be measured or that measurements havent been devised to reveal.

if you never are able to hear these differences, you will likely save a lot of time, trouble, and money.

The analogy that seems to hold up best is the wine taster. The good ones can tell the age and type of wood cask in which the wine was "finished", they can tell in what part of the world the grapes were grown due to miniscule differences in soil composition. Is this a gift from natures or is it learned? As near as I can tell most of the tasters believe it is learned ability. It's not that their taste senses are intrinsically better, it's because they care a lot and trained for years.

So was my experience with cables. Initially I heard no differences between my Monster 1000 interconnects and the "free" ones that came with newly purchased equipment. Eventually I learned to hear more (and discovered that the Monster 1000's were damn poor)

A fair warning, I moved from my good 'ol Sansui receiver to Denon separates and then to the more exotic equipment. My original $500 system became $2,000 and finally ended up nearer to $20,000. I could easily spend more except that I do believe in return on the dollar and with my limited income I am already well past proportionate, realistic costs

Happy listening.

I have just acquired two previously awesome compenents.

Pioneers SX-7
Signet SL-260/II speakers

Just wanted to know if they are compatible with each other. I bought 12g copper cables from (Monoprice) to hook up. Still confused with the bi-wire system as I am a noob, but wanted to test them out for a old system.

I love my dad's old amp, even though it is only 60w, I hope it can power these speakers...

There is no reason to worry about compatibility and 60 Watts will do a decent job of powering the speakers.

I do not know how efficient the Signet SL-260/II speakers are. If they are typical (89 dBSPL per watt), they will not provide room shaking sound while perfectly acceptable to all but the hard rock aficionado.

pammy.

hook them up, if they play loud enough for you without obvious distortion, they are compatible.