replacement power cables?? any advice?

[musicoverall]

Actually, I do care to answer, I believe this website should give a very valid reason to my claim. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2004.html

Well, actually it doesn't help your claim very much. Let's overlook the fact that the participants were testing in a room that was not their own listening environment and were using gear that was not theirs. I doubt I could tell the differences between two shades of blue if I had to use your eyeglasses. But as I said, let's overlook that for now.

Your claim is that "the cord that came with your gear is just fine". Well, now that I think about it, that's true! No doubt about it. Sound passes through it and it doesn't cause overheating so it's "just fine". But you're hinting that different power cords absolutely make no difference in sound. If I'm wrong, stop reading. If that's what you're saying, consider: You're making that claim based on a small number of participants, a small number of trials, the problems I pointed out above, and the problems the article pointed out at the end. The fact is that these people under blind conditions couldn't tell the differences between power cords under the limited and extreme conditions cited. That's all. Extrapolating that to the rest of the world under any and all conditions in all circumstances is simply too broad of a jump for me to accept. On the other hand, you may be absolutely correct in your conclusion. There's no way for me to know unless I try it first hand and even then, the most I could say is that I should be added to the (very short) list of people that have been documented to have failed a power cord blind test.

[ruadmaa]

Well, actually it doesn't help your claim very much. Let's overlook the fact that the participants were testing in a room that was not their own listening environment and were using gear that was not theirs. I doubt I could tell the differences between two shades of blue if I had to use your eyeglasses. But as I said, let's overlook that for now.

Your claim is that "the cord that came with your gear is just fine". Well, now that I think about it, that's true! No doubt about it. Sound passes through it and it doesn't cause overheating so it's "just fine". But you're hinting that different power cords absolutely make no difference in sound. If I'm wrong, stop reading. If that's what you're saying, consider: You're making that claim based on a small number of participants, a small number of trials, the problems I pointed out above, and the problems the article pointed out at the end. The fact is that these people under blind conditions couldn't tell the differences between power cords under the limited and extreme conditions cited. That's all. Extrapolating that to the rest of the world under any and all conditions in all circumstances is simply too broad of a jump for me to accept. On the other hand, you may be absolutely correct in your conclusion. There's no way for me to know unless I try it first hand and even then, the most I could say is that I should be added to the (very short) list of people that have been documented to have failed a power cord blind test.

One other small fact that you might have overlooked. I don't know about your receiver owners manual but in the Yamaha manuals it specifically states that the power cord is not to be replaced and to use only the power cord provided. Now I wonder why they would say that. Maybe you know more than the Yamaha people regarding power cords. Perhaps their engineers are so incompetent that they don't realize that better power cords could be added to their equipment. Rubbish. Leave your power cord alone. As I have stated the power cord that comes with your equipment is just fine.

[musicoverall]

One other small fact that you might have overlooked. I don't know about your receiver owners manual but in the Yamaha manuals it specifically states that the power cord is not to be replaced and to use only the power cord provided. Now I wonder why they would say that. Maybe you know more than the Yamaha people regarding power cords. Perhaps their engineers are so incompetent that they don't realize that better power cords could be added to their equipment. Rubbish. Leave your power cord alone. As I have stated the power cord that comes with your equipment is just fine.

No, I suspect the Yamaha people know more than I about power cords and I would further suspect that replacing the power cord on a Yamaha receiver would have absolutely no effect on the sound. But how about on a Krell amplifier? A conrad-johnson preamp? How about a Burmeister CD player? The VTL Wotans? The jump to those from a Yamaha receiver is pretty broad. Does your theory still hold?

[ruadmaa]

No, I suspect the Yamaha people know more than I about power cords and I would further suspect that replacing the power cord on a Yamaha receiver would have absolutely no effect on the sound. But how about on a Krell amplifier? A conrad-johnson preamp? How about a Burmeister CD player? The VTL Wotans? The jump to those from a Yamaha receiver is pretty broad. Does your theory still hold?

If you are paying thousands of dollars for high end equipment and not getting the very finest powercord available, perhaps you should be looking for different high end equipment.

[Resident Loser]

...it's a simple case of "...one hand washes the other..." quid quo pro...

The myth gets bigger as more "names" become involved...How do we know that all the brands you mention are really any better than the Yammie mass-market gear?

Word of mouth? Myth? Limited distributorship? That certain cache? Ego? Pride of ownership/oneupsmanship? Certainly not reviews!

Tube gear? A technology whose time has passed...A rarefied CD player that uses an off-the-shelf Marantz disc mechanism and has tone controls to boot(although they don't call 'em that)...and we put 'em in fancy cases, with sexy lights and parse out the dealer franchises to support that end of the myth...so yeah, the theory holds...quite well!

The whole high end deal is a crock IMO...way back when Levinson built Levinson, there were things like mil-spec parts, vernier-type controls, glass epoxy boards...you actually got some of what you paid for...now it seems as though "name" value is sufficient to slap a ridiculous pricetag on nearly everything...Now I'm not sayin' they don't use better parts, designs etc. but is the performance equal to the pricing structure or is it just so much hooey?...

So now we have speakers that are "bi-wireable", gear with a severe lack of switching functions and controls, a "powercord" market...a HT segment that has all but ruined the reasonably-priced, two-channel choices...all in the Catch-22 of "market demand"...a blizzard starts with one snowflake that builds and builds until you get a drift...

jimHJJ(... if you get my drift...)

[Resident Loser]

...let me play Devil's advocate...sorta...the Yammie cord is probably UL/CE approved...I don't think that is true for a great many aftermarket concoctions...certainly not for the DIY type...Soooo, Yamaha is telling you straight out...don't do it...at very least you may invalidate your warranty, at worse you could cause death or destruction AND your insurer won't look too kindly at it when settlement time rolls 'round...

To recap, there are some things in "audio-mytho-hypo-land" that exist only due to manufacturing economies...IEC-connecterized components are one of them...pure and simple.

jimHJJ(...looking at things as realities...)

[E-Stat]

I don't know about your receiver owners manual but in the Yamaha manuals it specifically states that the power cord is not to be replaced and to use only the power cord provided.Now I wonder why they would say that.

There is no mystery as they explain afterwards why.

"Otherwise it may result in causing fire or an electronic shock."

In this litgious society, that is simply a CYA for the folks out there who may use substandard or damaged cords. The ones I use or recommend are UL listed, which is kinda redundant since they use larger gauge wire and employ higher quality connectors than the cheap stuff.

Perhaps their engineers are so incompetent that they don't realize that better power cords could be added to their equipment.

Or, choice "B", they understand their primary audience. Most people don't care.

Have you ever spoken to a audio designer / manufacturer regarding cords? The answer I get from three is pretty consistent. We supply a basic cable knowing that users either already have or will choose one that works better in their system. One company, GamuT only supplies cords upon request (at no charge) for the same reason. Perhaps you might try asking audio engineers the same question instead of assuming the answer.

rw

rw

[musicoverall]

[QUOTE=Resident Loser
now it seems as though "name" value is sufficient to slap a ridiculous pricetag on nearly everything...Now I'm not sayin' they don't use better parts, designs etc. but is the performance equal to the pricing structure or is it just so much hooey?...)[/QUOTE]

My experience, and that of others that I know personally (or at least know their experience) suggests that it's neither a good price-to-performance ratio nor so much hooey. I'll have to use some numbers that should be taken as representational.

A pre-amp/amp combination might sound 10% better than a receiver, yet cost 500% more. The tradeoff is how much one wants to spend to attain that 10% improvement. Is 500% worth it? To some people, it is.

In many cases I've found, yes - name value is sufficient to slap a ridiculously high price tag on a piece of gear. There are many, many more pieces of gear that I think are overpriced, Mark II when Mark I wasn't that good, charge what the traffic will bear, items than there are excellent sounding pieces. I won't mention names but many of the highly respected audiophile electronics manufacturers produce items that I think are no more worth their cost than a Rolex is. OTOH, Rolex's are worth the cost to some. Further, there are higher priced items that I feel are worth every penny, in subjective terms... and I'm a subjectivist (huge surprise).

How do you know if the brands I mentioned are "better" than a Yamaha receiver? Only by critical listening... at least, that's the means I use. If the glorified parts or design used don't result in better sound, then you're paying for parts and design theory. Now I have no doubt that audiophiles tend to respect certain pieces of gear due to word of mouth and advertising when they haven't listened. But I think that has at least some justification. A company that makes primarily mid-priced receivers is building to a price point, to a specific market segment. Something has to be compromised and that something is usually the sound, IME.

Anyone that is happy with their current power cord, Yamaha receiver or RCA CD player gets no flack from me until they erroneously claim that not only does nothing else sound "better", nothing else sounds "different". That's a claim, a speculation - nothing more. If so stated, I have no problem with that. The problem begins when that speculation is stated as though it were a proven fact.

[musicoverall]

If you are paying thousands of dollars for high end equipment and not getting the very finest powercord available, perhaps you should be looking for different high end equipment.

I'm not aware of any high end company that supplies aftermarket power cords with their gear. But I am aware of high end companies that recommend that the buyer maximize their investment with an aftermarket cord. I've heard the question "why would these manufacturers ship out a component that might not be heard in its best light" i.e without a better power cord. A better question might be why would they supply a better cord which would further drive up the cost of their component to the consumer when the cord MAY OR MAY NOT make a difference? If it doesn't, why should I have to pay for the cord in order to get the component? From what I've read, the power cord's "sonic signature" might very well have more to do with what's already in someone's home rather than anything to do with the specific component. Why be forced to buy the power cord when you might not need it?

[ruadmaa]

There is no mystery as they explain afterwards why.

"Otherwise it may result in causing fire or an electronic shock."

In this litgious society, that is simply a CYA for the folks out there who may use substandard or damaged cords. The ones I use or recommend are UL listed, which is kinda redundant since they use larger gauge wire and employ higher quality connectors than the cheap stuff.


Or, choice "B", they understand their primary audience. Most people don't care.

Have you ever spoken to a audio designer / manufacturer regarding cords? The answer I get from three is pretty consistent. We supply a basic cable knowing that users either already have or will choose one that works better in their system. One company, GamuT only supplies cords upon request (at no charge) for the same reason. Perhaps you might try asking audio engineers the same question instead of assuming the answer.

rw

rw

You forgot to add choice C Mr. Super Moderator: Perhaps there can be no improvement in equipment performance by adding an aftermarket power cord.

[E-Stat]

You forgot to add choice C Mr. Super Moderator: Perhaps there can be no improvement in equipment performance by adding an aftermarket power cord.

Indeed that is usually the case when you limit the discussion to receivers.

rw