replacement power cables?? any advice?

[musicoverall]

[QUOTE=ruadmaa]Let me see, the electric power you receive in your home has been generated many miles away. It is transmitted via copper cables for that distance which can be quite significant. It then reaches your home and traveles throughout your entire home on copper cables. After all this copper electrical transmission you are telling us that the last foot of cable makes any difference whatsoever. Amazing. QUOTE]

But during its travels of many miles, it doesn't have to deal with the interference of one's own audio equipment. The argument I heard is that your own gear backwashes this noise and the power cord helps to clean that up. E-Stat can more fully argue this point as I have no experience with aftermarket power cords. But I can't dismiss them out of hand based on theory alone.

[E-Stat]

Power Cables Make No Difference

Just curious. What is the basis for your opinion?

Let me see, the electric power you receive in your home has been generated many miles away. It is transmitted via copper cables...

As I mentioned in my earlier post, you are not focusing on the relevant issue. Proponents of aftermarket cords do not assert they are improving the quality of the power delivery from the local sub station. The real issue is that there are a host of RF generating devices found in most modern homes (save the Amish) capable of polluting the otherwise clean incoming line. As for me, I have two computers, an 802.11 G wireless router, five cordless phones, two cell phones, three digital cable boxes, a pager, and five CD/DVD players/recorders that stay powered up most of the time. On a related topic, I regularly clean all the contacts in my systems, both signal and power alike, using Caig Pro Gold to remove the inevitable build up of oxidation capable of introducing a similar HF tizziness.

I have spoken with several audio designers who share that view (and do not themselves market such cords).

I've also read of proposals for transmitting computer data directly through the power line. I think that would have a disasterous audible effect on high resolution audio systems.

rw

[ruadmaa]

[QUOTE=musicoverall]

Let me see, the electric power you receive in your home has been generated many miles away. It is transmitted via copper cables for that distance which can be quite significant. It then reaches your home and traveles throughout your entire home on copper cables. After all this copper electrical transmission you are telling us that the last foot of cable makes any difference whatsoever. Amazing. QUOTE]

But during its travels of many miles, it doesn't have to deal with the interference of one's own audio equipment. The argument I heard is that your own gear backwashes this noise and the power cord helps to clean that up. E-Stat can more fully argue this point as I have no experience with aftermarket power cords. But I can't dismiss them out of hand based on theory alone.

I'll bet you that to date, no one has been able to tell the difference in audio quality with any aftermarket cable and the stock power cord that came with the equipment under any valid double blind tests period. If you say yes, please post it so we can all see.

I can also see that it is rather pointless to argue with you. That being the case, I suggest you go out and buy the very most expensive power cord available so that you too can enjoy the improved performance it will deliver. For other readers I suggest that you save your money, the cord that came with your equipment is just fine.

[psonic]

I'll bet you that to date, no one has been able to tell the difference in audio quality with any aftermarket cable and the stock power cord that came with the equipment under any valid double blind tests period. If you say yes, please post it so we can all see.

I can also see that it is rather pointless to argue with you. That being the case, I suggest you go out and buy the very most expensive power cord available so that you too can enjoy the improved performance it will deliver. For other readers I suggest that you save your money, the cord that came with your equipment is just fine.

I suggest you buy no power cord...won't help a mini-boombox system with plastic speakers.

[ruadmaa]

I suggest you buy no power cord...won't help a mini-boombox system with plastic speakers.

Just a little information in rebuttal to your ignorant diatribe. I have been into high fidelity audio since the 1960's which is most likely long before you were born.

[E-Stat]

I can also see that it is rather pointless to argue with you.

No need to argue. I do find it pointless, however, to suggest that theory alone explains everything in matters of musical reproduction.

That being the case, I suggest you go out and buy the very most expensive power cord available so that you too can enjoy the improved performance it will deliver.

Why would anyone do that?

rw

[musicoverall]

I'll bet you that to date, no one has been able to tell the difference in audio quality with any aftermarket cable and the stock power cord that came with the equipment under any valid double blind tests period. If you say yes, please post it so we can all see.

I can also see that it is rather pointless to argue with you. That being the case, I suggest you go out and buy the very most expensive power cord available so that you too can enjoy the improved performance it will deliver. For other readers I suggest that you save your money, the cord that came with your equipment is just fine.

I'm not aware of any double blind tests on power cords except for one that was done recently and posted on The Audio Lab... which, by the way, is where discussions of DBT belong rather than the Cable forum. That being said, why do you say the cord that comes with equipment is "just fine"? Have you tried aftermarket power cords? If not, how do you know what is fine and what isn't? If you want to argue, go ahead, but all I'm doing is asking a few questions. Care to answer or do you simply not have a valid reason for your claim?

[ruadmaa]

I'm not aware of any double blind tests on power cords except for one that was done recently and posted on The Audio Lab... which, by the way, is where discussions of DBT belong rather than the Cable forum. That being said, why do you say the cord that comes with equipment is "just fine"? Have you tried aftermarket power cords? If not, how do you know what is fine and what isn't? If you want to argue, go ahead, but all I'm doing is asking a few questions. Care to answer or do you simply not have a valid reason for your claim?

I highly suggest that you go to: www.audioholics.com, go to the forums section and then do a search on power cords. I believe you will find all the necessary information on power cords there.

[E-Stat]

I highly suggest that you go to: www.audioholics.com, go to the forums section and then do a search on power cords. I believe you will find all the necessary information on power cords there.

Ok, I did find one article, Do you likewise qualify your speculation as did this author?

I am not referring to cables with inbuilt filters or other esoterica here, just perfectly ordinary mains leads.

Those are the types to which I refer and find benefit.

rw

[ruadmaa]

Ok, I did find one article, Do you likewise qualify your speculation as did this author?

I am not referring to cables with inbuilt filters or other esoterica here, just perfectly ordinary mains leads.

Those are the types to which I refer and find benefit.

rw

I would also highly recommend that you go to the following site: http://sound.westhost.com/index.html When you get there do a main index search, then click on site map. When you get there simply click on the Cables Pt 1 choice and then power leads. I think you will find all that you need to know on power cords at that location. I hope you make it to that site as it is very infomative in regard to power cords. This is also an excellent site for all kinds of audio information.

[musicoverall]

I would also highly recommend that you go to the following site: http://sound.westhost.com/index.html When you get there do a main index search, then click on site map. When you get there simply click on the Cables Pt 1 choice and then power leads. I think you will find all that you need to know on power cords at that location. I hope you make it to that site as it is very infomative in regard to power cords. This is also an excellent site for all kinds of audio information.

I'll check that out later today. What I got from your first site is someone who replaced the stock power cord on his Yamaha receiver couldn't hear a difference. Not much teeth in that experiment.

[musicoverall]

I think you will find all that you need to know on power cords at that location. I hope you make it to that site as it is very infomative in regard to power cords. This is also an excellent site for all kinds of audio information.

It tells me "much" of what one might need to know about power cords. There is one thing missing: how they sound. All that electrical theory and not one listening test. But if one wanted to know electrical and power cord theory, that site seems to be one place to go.

I'm not being purposefully contentious because, as I said before, I have no personal experience with power cords. Obviously, neither does the writer on that site... except with measuring them. And there is the everpresent need among what E-Stat termed "non-experiential theoreticians" to jump to conclusions when the truth is that even if the writer did engage in blind listening tests and failed to hear a difference, his only valid claim at that point is that HE did not hear differences with that cord in that system on that day. He didn't even bother to test his theories but simply took them on faith. If that's objectivity at work, I accept and champion subjectivity.

[ruadmaa]

It tells me "much" of what one might need to know about power cords. There is one thing missing: how they sound. All that electrical theory and not one listening test. But if one wanted to know electrical and power cord theory, that site seems to be one place to go.

I'm not being purposefully contentious because, as I said before, I have no personal experience with power cords. Obviously, neither does the writer on that site... except with measuring them. And there is the everpresent need among what E-Stat termed "non-experiential theoreticians" to jump to conclusions when the truth is that even if the writer did engage in blind listening tests and failed to hear a difference, his only valid claim at that point is that HE did not hear differences with that cord in that system on that day. He didn't even bother to test his theories but simply took them on faith. If that's objectivity at work, I accept and champion subjectivity.

Suite yourself, I do however, find it hard to believe that any major manufacturer of audio/video equipment be it Sony or Lexicon would issue their equipment without the proper and optimum power cord.

Personally I have replaced power cords for several different reasons, none of them having to do with enhancing performance those being:

An old power cord that was brittle
A cord that was damaged
Or simply a cord that had burnt out at the end and needed repaired.

I noticed no difference in performance of equipment after power cords had been replaced.

I believe you might learn quite a bit more by going through some of the threads at the Audioholics site.

From my personal point of view, I have given you the best advice that I know of. No skin off my back if you choose to ignore it.

[musicoverall]

From my personal point of view, I have given you the best advice that I know of. No skin off my back if you choose to ignore it.

Understood and appreciated. However, it "might" be skin off my back if I choose to take your advice. I'll never know until I try. All I have to lose is a little time if they truly do nothing in my system. Even so, the best advice I could give for someone is to try it. Just because my system might not be sensitive to aftermarket power cables doesn't mean their system isn't.

[E-Stat]

I would also highly recommend that you go to the following site

Neither you nor Mr. Elliott consider the RF issues I raised. His comments are solely based upon current delivery issues using conventional cords. Just like the guys at Audioholics. And they freely acknowledge it. Theory is great when it considers all possibilities.

I think you will find all that you need to know on power cords at that location.

Except of course for direct experience. I have listened to a number of aftermarket cords in my system and have already drawn conclusions based upon that experience. I find experience far more valuable than theory and speculation.

This is also an excellent site for all kinds of audio information.

It is fine for the average DIY enthusiast as the site suggests. It does not attempt to address the peformance envelope of the highest resolution audio components.

rw

[wfontenot]

I know this had been a large debate, but I did hear a difference when switching cables. I was auditioning a Jolida 202A today and the question of power cables came up with the dealer. He switched the power cables as I listened (which can be done without turning the unit off and on) and there was a difference. It was subtle, but there was a difference. The stock unit, which is much beafier than the lamp cord types, sounded cloudy compared to the other unit. I cannot remember the unit right now (the upgraded power cable), but it retailed for ~178 bucks. Would it be worth the price, probably not unless you where tweaking everything. The bottom line is "YES" they do make a difference. For those who cannot hear a difference, perhaps it is your equipment, the type of cord you are trying, or your ears. That is my $.02!

[A-Audiophile]

Yes I once thought it was all snake oil too, so I went out and bought a Hubbell plug and a IEC connector to experiment with.....I used Romex [same house wire that leads from your circuit breaker to your outlets] sounded worse, very noticably bad. I increased the gauge of wire from that standard 16ga to a very good shieled 12ga from an electrical store...my Aragon 8008BB amp sounded much different....punchier, bigger, blacker, faster, smoother. I borrowed Kimber powerkord from the dealer, and tried other home brew cords and I can say that each one made my Aragon sound different. So yes power cords DO make a difference. BTW I replaced the hard-wired stock cord to my Adcom CD player and it smoothed it out completely.

[A-Audiophile]

Let me see, the electric power you receive in your home has been generated many miles away. It is transmitted via copper cables for that distance which can be quite significant. It then reaches your home and traveles throughout your entire home on copper cables. After all this copper electrical transmission you are telling us that the last foot of cable makes any difference whatsoever. Amazing.

By the way, you don't happen to be shilling for a high end powercord company are you?

LOL...yes I know....and I know it sounds crazy...and thinking along those lines...using Romex would/should sound the best [since its whats coming from your circuit breaker to the outlet] BUT I tried that...yes actually taking the outlet off the wall and adding a IEC connector to the end of some Romex and physically connecting it to the Romex from the wall....in affect HAVING NO POWER CORD. And it did not sound good at all. So somehow, some length of very good copper wire does make a difference.

Just like many small streams with bends and rocks bring water to a river...the water moves along sure, but check out the speed of the water once it hits a nice unobstructed straight canal.

Hey I did not believe it myself until I started experimenting with different home made and borrowed power cords....the DO really sound different...

[Beckman]

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/100_heal.html

[musicoverall]

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/100_heal.html

Don't swallow your power cord to control your headaches or other physical illnesses. Hook it up to your electronic equipment!

Seriously, while your link is interesting, it provides no insight into the sound of power cords (if any). It's merely your belief that power cords are placebos. I'm not saying your necessarily wrong, but your link isn't proof or even evidence of placebo in this case.

[E-Stat]

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/100_heal.html

So your conclusion is that aftermarket power cords have a healing effect to audiophiles?

rw

[Beckman]

So your conclusion is that aftermarket power cords have a healing effect to audiophiles?

rw

Yes. In fact I have found that coating my power cord in olive oil brings more depth to the music. I turns out the dielectric constant of olive oil is very high and it prevents electron drift in the insulation.

[Beckman]

Don't swallow your power cord to control your headaches or other physical illnesses. Hook it up to your electronic equipment!
.

Too late!

[musicoverall]

Yes. In fact I have found that coating my power cord in olive oil brings more depth to the music. I turns out the dielectric constant of olive oil is very high and it prevents electron drift in the insulation.

More depth? Are you saying it's getting deep in here???

BTW, try using dictionaries as cable elevators - you'll get a huge increase in definition!

[ruadmaa]

I'm not aware of any double blind tests on power cords except for one that was done recently and posted on The Audio Lab... which, by the way, is where discussions of DBT belong rather than the Cable forum. That being said, why do you say the cord that comes with equipment is "just fine"? Have you tried aftermarket power cords? If not, how do you know what is fine and what isn't? If you want to argue, go ahead, but all I'm doing is asking a few questions. Care to answer or do you simply not have a valid reason for your claim?

Actually, I do care to answer, I believe this website should give a very valid reason to my claim. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2004.html