Proof of placebo effect ?

[mtrycraft]

I use ES speakers and have also found improved sound quality with cables other than generic zip.

rw

You'd need 300ft of 12 ga generic to have a 1/2 ohm resistance.
Your other cables perhaps roll off the upper frequency even more that you seem to prefer more.

[E-Stat]

Your other cables perhaps roll off the upper frequency even more that you seem to prefer more.

You sentence doesn't make sense. What are you trying to suggest?

BTW, the JPS Labs Superconductor+ are of very low capacitance design and do NOT roll off the high end vs. 12 gauge zip.

rw

[FLZapped]

You sentence doesn't make sense. What are you trying to suggest?

BTW, the JPS Labs Superconductor+ are of very low capacitance design and do NOT roll off the high end vs. 12 gauge zip.

rw

Except that inductance is tha parameter to worry about in speaker cables, not the capacitance.

-Bruce

[Pat D]

I read my base post again, and I still think you have tried to read between the lines, and speculate on my motives rather than just going by the content of post. I will try to clarify my position.

Suppose the difference in two cables heard by a listener can't be verified objectively through measurements or blinded testing. The placebo effect may or may not play a part in this discrepency. Accepting the discrepency does not necessarily mean accepting the placebo effect as an explanation.

What I have just tried to explain has been my position all along. You may have overlooked my 12-17-03 reply to Dr. Jeff's 12-16-03 post. Here is what I said: "I agree you can question any claim I make about hearing differences in cables without mentioning even the possibility of the placebo effect."

Then why mention placebo effect in the first place? How do you conceive the placebo effect? And how does it become an explanation?

[okiemax]

Then why mention placebo effect in the first place? How do you conceive the placebo effect? And how does it become an explanation?

I'm not sure I understand why you are asking me why I mentioned the placebo effect in the first place. I mentioned the placebo effect because it frequently is given as the explanation for the discrepancy between subjective and objective listening results. If the placebo effect is claimed to be the reason for the discrepancy, what is wrong with asking for proof that it's the reason? Haven't you said the burden of proof is on the claimant?

Nor do I understand why you are asking me the other two questions.
By doing so, you are in effect asking me to answer my own questions.

[Pat D]

I'm not sure I understand why you are asking me why I mentioned the placebo effect in the first place. I mentioned the placebo effect because it frequently is given as the explanation for the discrepancy between subjective and objective listening results. If the placebo effect is claimed to be the reason for the discrepancy, what is wrong with asking for proof that it's the reason? Haven't you said the burden of proof is on the claimant?

Nor do I understand why you are asking me the other two questions.
By doing so, you are in effect asking me to answer my own questions.

Not really. Look at it this way: the placebo effect is an effect, not an explanation. It is an effect in need of explanation. Just to call something a placebo effect is to put it in a class, not to explain something. Putting it into a familiar class may domesticate it but is not really an explanation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=placebo
http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...acebo%20effect

For example, Dictionary.com gives the explanation of reported improvement as resulting from the patient's expectation, which is is an explanation of sorts for the effect.

[okiemax]

I believe you can here a difference. I just think there are a lot better ways of changing the sound quality. $10 - $15 worth of parts to produce cables with the exact same transfer function(charecteristics).

I apologize for the late reply.Yes, I believe you could get close to the results of some audiophile cables by the means you have described. Tone controls also might be used with similar results. The goal of some designs, however, is a neutral cable.

[E-Stat]

Except that inductance is tha parameter to worry about in speaker cables, not the capacitance.

Inductance for same is ~480 nH for my 8 foot run.

rw