Power cord questions

[E-Stat]

What a bunch of crap..

You're likely going to lose any scientific discussion with Mr. Neutrino

Now, if he would ever let us know his "secret" power cord recipe that will supposedly save us thousands of dollars!

rw

[jneutron]

You're likely going to lose any scientific discussion with Mr. Neutrino

Now, if he would ever let us know his "secret" power cord recipe that will supposedly save us thousands of dollars!
rw

Ya had ya chance.

Ya cudda heard it.

Ya cudda seens it.

Ya cudda playzed it on a graaaaand system..

But, Noooooo...way too buzy ta even answer the post, pick up da phone, nuttin...radio silence..

Well, soives ya right...

And who said it'll saves ya money??

Nuttin gets outta da lab tills the meeta's sez so.

And, da lab??

Da ceement's curin as we speaks..

How's it shakin E?

Need anytin from Bejiing? (given the budget, I may not be able to get back..)

Cheers, John

[shokhead]

It seems I was not clear enough. My fault perhaps??

What I explained is accurate. Re-read what I posted..rotation of the receiver WILL alter the coupling constant between the line cord and the input ground loop..

Let's go through a few questions, shall we?

1. Do you believe a "ground loop" is a real entity?

If the answer is..yes, go to question #2. If your answer is no...then, you don't get out much, do you?

2. Do you believe a ground loop is ONLY capable of picking up 60 hz? If NO, go to question 3..if yes, you need to learn the equation: Voltage = - N times the rate of change of trapped magnetic field..this is Faraday's law, one of Maxwell's equations, and is also used for transformer design, hence the number N in the equation. And, if you look carefully, the equation does not state: " this applies ONLY to 60 hz signals.."

In point of fact, this equation states that the voltage generated is proportional to the rate of change of magnetic field..so is also directly related to the frequency of the harmonic which is intercepted.

3. Do you believe an amp draw is ONLY 60 hz? If NO, proceed to question #4. If yes, you need to learn about bridge rectifier current haversine draw, and the fact that an amp draw is odd order harmonics from the wall.

4. Do you believe a line cord is capable of ignoring the entire spectra of current drawn through it, somehow supressing the magnetic field dipole that is generated, so that the ground loop does not see it?? If the answer is no, then go to question #5. If yes, then you are implying that MAGIC IS involved when it comes to line cords.

5. If you answered correctly the first 4 questions, then you are here. Congratulations, you have applied e/m field theory accurately...theory which is older than I, at five decades..

Unfortunately, by getting to question #5, you have contradicted yourself...you have made it to the point where you agree that a line cord does indeed have the ability to alter the signal that is presented to the input of an amplifier..

Now what are you gonna do??

Cheers, John

PS...yah I know, #5 is not a question..

PPS..shokhead, I was having fun posting this, it is not meant to be a criticism of you. Please do not take it as such. It is meant more as a learning vehicle, to allow others to understand the sequence of logical constructs that get to the conclusion. It was fun, though..

I take it back,a very $$$ powercord will make a hearing difference,to my dog.

[jneutron]

I take it back,a very $$$ powercord will make a hearing difference,to my dog.

Quite honestly, given the fact that you haven't heard a difference (I assume that you have indeed tried), then the chances of your dog hearing the diff is probably small.

The most significant issue to arise as a result of powercord involvement, will be the altering of the virtual image which is referred to as soundstage. The coupling from the line cord to the input ground is not an easily measured entitiy.

If the amplifier is heavily involved in producing power at a given frequency, and has coupled some of that back to the input ground, the best thing to happen will be a slight amplitude or phase shift. Standard FFT measurement will not see anything, distortion = zero.

This is because the standard FFT algorithms do not lock or look any temporal information at all. So, is unable to measure any change in soundstage caused by temporal shifts associated with a cos/sin intermix of signals of the type line cords give.

Also, standard dummy loads do not present as resistive loads in the time regime required for localization testing, they are crap at the 2 to 5 uSec range at 8 ohms.

If you believe all that can be known, is known, you are in for a suprise.. The fact that you have not responded to the science with any reasonable response is very telling..

Cheers, John

[E-Stat]

But, Noooooo...way too buzy ta even answer the post, pick up da phone, nuttin...radio silence..

You keep saying that, yet I'm blank as to your invite. Here's my post that announced the trip and I followed every response following that as it dove into flames to the Steel Cage and not a peep from you. Geoff sent me a series of private messages saying we should get together and do lunch along with his cell number.

What ever happened to... <---(dot dot dot)

And who said it'll saves ya money??

That would be you. I've got a bit over $3k in cords.

How's it shakin E?

Just got back from accompanying the better half to a university thing down in Puerto Rico. While she attended meetings during the day, I goofed off. Did some scuba diving and toured the Arecibo Observatory. The diving sure cleared out my ears such that everything is now a wee bit louder with a touch more on the top. My ears have never adjusted to the return flight's descent more easily. Highly recommended for optimum listening!

Need anytin from Bejiing? (given the budget, I may not be able to get back..)

Hmmm. Just don't bring back any avian flu!

Next time I visit your direction, I'll see if you're in town.

rw

[jneutron]

You keep saying that, yet I'm blank as to your invite. Here's my post that announced the trip and I followed every response following that as it dove into flames to the Steel Cage and not a peep from you. Geoff sent me a series of private messages saying we should get together and do lunch along with his cell number.

What ever happened to... <---(dot dot dot)



That would be you. I've got a bit over $3k in cords.


Just got back from accompanying the better half to a university thing down in Puerto Rico. While she attended meetings during the day, I goofed off. Did some scuba diving and toured the Arecibo Observatory. The diving sure cleared out my ears such that everything is now a wee bit louder with a touch more on the top. My ears have never adjusted to the return flight's descent more easily. Highly recommended for optimum listening!

rw

ah...no wonder..

You posted in aa general, I posted under that..I was unaware of any discussion here.

3K...peanuts...my cord'll cost 10K.. specially if the budget vote (DOE)goes bad..

Scuba diving is not "goofing off". Everybody knows that is the best way to clear ear wax..

And Arecibo? How could anybody call that goofing off???

AND, a chopin vodka martini with blue cheese filled olives is certainly not goofing off..and, I intend to evaluate one of those in about half an hour...I'm outta here..

Next time I visit your direction, I'll see if you're in town.
rw

Ah darn, I'm gonna be outta town that day...what day was it??

Seriously, let me know..it would be fun to eval my cord..and see if I have any clue as to what I'm talkin about..

Cheers, John

[Keith C]

When I lay my amplifier on its side it pleases my pet bat but not my pet cat. I had a pet rat but the cat ate the rat. I don't want to buy anymore pets and I don't know what to do. Everytime I move a component the bat winks at me. I think the bat is telling me lies. Who do I trust...the cat or the bat?

Keith C.
It's all about preference not perfection



Rotation of the receiver or amplifier, causes a 1/4 rotation of the helical dipole of the line cord. This in turn alters the faraday coupling coefficient of the line cord to the ground loop formed by the sources connected to the receiver. By altering this, you change the loop susceptibility to line cord haversines, line cord coupled high frequency currents, and externally generated audio range magnetic field slews.

It is necessary to rotate the receiver in increments from level to 90 degrees in either direction. There will be one, and only one, angle, where the internally generated haversines (odd order supply current ahrmonics) will be nulled out at the input ground. Luckily, as this is a sine function, the null is actually very shallow, plus or minus 5 or ten degrees won't make too much difference. (note that a balanced input configuration will be far less susceptible to this effect.)

The electron flow explanation is entirely bogus..

And there is no guarantee that the rotation will null external stimulus at the same angle as internal stimulus..there is no free lunch..

However, my explanation is based on Faraday's law of induction..glib as your post was, there actually is a relationship..

Cheers, John

PS...testing testing...

&#8747 E . &#948 s = - &#948&#934 /&#948t

Putz...this site doesn't support normal html code..[/QU

Thats my point,its crap just like better power cords improve sound.
I'm not dumb enough{dumb somewhat} to turn my receiver on its side,invest in a $$$$ powercord or $5 afoot speaker wire.[/QUOTE]

[jneutron]

When I lay my amplifier on its side it pleases my pet bat but not my pet cat. I had a pet rat but the cat ate the rat. I don't want to buy anymore pets and I don't know what to do. Everytime I move a component the bat winks at me. I think the bat is telling me lies. Who do I trust...the cat or the bat?

Keith C.

Trust the bat..bats hang around and live by hearing..while cats lie..

John

PS..you know what was funny? the subsription e-mail I got actually sent Faraday's law of induction in correct html form, with the delta's and phi correct..strange..

[Keith C]

Thankyou John. This explains much. The cat has been lying around and lying to me all along. So the moral of the story is never ever trust a rat or a cat but only a bat.

Now that I know I can trust the bat I won't have to stumble around the listening room blindfolded while I swap out powercords and speaker cables. I'll blindfold the bat instead.

Keith C.

[jneutron]

Thankyou John. This explains much. The cat has been lying around and lying to me all along. So the moral of the story is never ever trust a rat or a cat but only a bat.

Now that I know I can trust the bat I won't have to stumble around the listening room blindfolded while I swap out powercords and speaker cables. I'll blindfold the bat instead.

Keith C.

Now your just being silly..

Why would a bat care if you covered it's eyes??? Duh..

Cheers, John

[Keith C]

Never try and blindfold a bat. Three stiches and a visit to the emergency room have taught me this valuable lesson. If the bat is rabbies free and animal control decides to give it back to me then I'm going to take it home and feed it to the cat.

It's all about progress and not perfection anyway. testing ...testing...testing...

I wonder if I could blindfold the cat? Hmmmm...that might be more dangerous than trying to blindfold the bat.

Keith C.

[Greekguy]

I am wondering if anyone can tell me if upgrading your powercord really makes any difference in sound quality. I am using a stock powercord with my equipment now and am wondering if I should purchase an Audioquest cord because I just bought Audioquest cables and interconnects. These made an unbelievable improvement in the soundstage and I was blown away. Could a powercord really help? I am also wondering about the actual outlet. I saw that PS Audio makes a replacement recepticle. Would this help my sound quality and how? Thanks

Provided you have a good power filter or conditioner in place, this along with a good quality power cord will certainly improve your sound quality. Power directly from the outlet without any kind of filtration produces too much noise, and this will be heard through your equipment in the form of distortion and hiss. With a good power conditioning setup, you'll get better clarity and much tighter bass from your system.

Mind you, I also believe that there's a level at which there are diminishing returns with the equipment you invest in; going from the boxed power cord to, let's say a $250 cord, will make a big difference, but going from the $250 one to one which costs $1,000, won't yield much of a difference. The same principle can be applied to speaker cables, in that going from low to high end will yield a better result than going from high to higher end. As I like to say, it's all about experimentation, and through trial, error and experience, you'll learn to tell the difference in setups.