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  1. #26
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    By dropping large sums of cash on cables there is the expectation of improved sound yet that expectation can be a contaminating effect upon one's judgement of actual performance.
    Who'd have guested? New purchase bias?

  2. #27
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    By dropping large sums of cash on cables there is the expectation of improved sound yet that expectation can be a contaminating effect upon one's judgement of actual performance.
    I find a great solution to that effect: don't buy stuff until you hear it - ideally in your own system. That's the way I've purchased most all my components, cables certainly included.

    rw

  3. #28
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    With cables, I have found that the best evaluation is to listen to your new cabling for several weeks, THEN put back the old cables. This will infact reveal the differences much more aptly than a few days of your new cables.

  4. #29
    Ajani
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    The problem I have with just about any discussion of cables is that both sides of the argument are generally not based on proper application of science...

    View # 1 - I auditioned XYZ Cables for $$$ and they lifted a veil off my music, so now I'm a hardcore believer in cables making a difference...

    View # 2 - Based on specifications and some DBT, I state with authority that NO differences are possible and what anyone heard is in their imagination...

    Neither view is scientific...

    A simple sighted audition is not enough to prove that differences really exist OR that if they do, that they are because the new cable is better quality, based on all the reasons the maufacturer claims... Faulty connector, gauge size etc can all legitimately affect cable performance, so the comparison might not have been expensive cable VS cheaper cable but 16 gauge vs 12 gauge or good connection versus bad connection etc...

    The other view that it must be in the person's imagination is equally ridiculous, as it requires making definitive conclusions from tests that don't definitively prove anything... The statistical failure of most participants in a DBT does NOT prove that there are no audible differences in cables. What is does prove is that differences (if they do exist) are far more subtle than many audiophiles claim... A major difference would be easily identified under DBT conditions... For example, I might not be able to tell the difference between 2 wines under DBT, but no matter how stressed I am, I could tell the difference between water and orange juice... Water versus Orange Juice is a NIGHT & DAY difference...

  5. #30
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Dont' forget...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    The problem I have with just about any discussion of cables is that both sides of the argument are generally not based on proper application of science...


    For example, I might not be able to tell the difference between 2 wines under DBT..
    You've identified a third non-scientific approach: the use of unsupported assumptions concerning the very test procedure used to "prove" the question. First of all, do you ever switch interconnects between say a source and pre or power amp while both are powered up and set to normal listening gain levels? Of course not! Why? Well, the noise or huge POP! can potentially damage downstream gear or at least open a fuse. Performing a double blind test of cabling necessarily requires connecting both cables to a switch box between the components used. Naturally, the use of external uncontrolled variables is not required for comparing wines! The non-experiential theorists reason that since the switch contact impedance, inductance and capacitance is low, they assume that the box does not influence the test. Such incomplete thinking completely misses the point! Preventing the POP! requires the use of common grounds. So, now you are comparing the combined electrical characteristics of both cables. Or feedback loops between two amplifier so wired.

    Is it any wonder then that listeners are unable to hear the difference between using both cables and - both cables? Frank Van Alstine made that observation long ago. Some folks attempt to defend their position cloaked in the mantle of engineering using fallacious assumptions like this.

    rw

  6. #31
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    You've identified a third non-scientific approach: the use of unsupported assumptions concerning the very test procedure used to "prove" the question. First of all, do you ever switch interconnects between say a source and pre or power amp while both are powered up and set to normal listening gain levels? Of course not! Why? Well, the noise or huge POP! can potentially damage downstream gear or at least open a fuse. Performing a double blind test of cabling necessarily requires connecting both cables to a switch box between the components used. Naturally, the use of external uncontrolled variables is not required for comparing wines! The non-experiential theorists reason that since the switch contact impedance, inductance and capacitance is low, they assume that the box does not influence the test. Such incomplete thinking completely misses the point! Preventing the POP! requires the use of common grounds. So, now you are comparing the combined electrical characteristics of both cables. Or feedback loops between two amplifier so wired.

    Is it any wonder then that listeners are unable to hear the difference between using both cables and - both cables? Frank Van Alstine made that observation long ago. Some folks attempt to defend their position cloaked in the mantle of engineering using fallacious assumptions like this.

    rw
    Certainly... That is another problem with talking about science... Getting agreement on whether the test procedures are appropriate for the conclusions drawn...

    Adding a switch box to cable test makes no sense simply because it is highly unlikely that persons who claim to hear differences in cables, will just accept the idea that the switch box makes no audible difference... If they accepted that then they would just as likely accept the notion that cables make no audible difference...

    My view on cables is simply that a lot more research needs to be done... as so far no one has definitively proved that cables make an audible difference (connection, gauge, etc excluded), but also no one has definitively proved that cables don't make an audible difference...

  7. #32
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    kinda of a weird read. i'm confused. i thought the thickness of the cable was the most important?

  8. #33
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    The thickness of the wire is just the beginning. There are plenty of graphs that determine the gauge needed depending on the distance of speakers from the amp. Some buy larger guage cables for low resistance and as often claimed stronger bass.

    Now to further complicate things some of us hear a difference in types of cables. I hope you are not one of them. Life would be easier if you can be happy with generic stranded cables.

    After gauge you have cable geometry and your choice of copper or silver as two popular conductors. Then the choice of stranded or solid core conductors. Various types of insulations are uses and then often placed inside a jacket.

    My preference to my ears, in my system and in my room is a solid core minimal insulation jacketless 12 gauge design.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  9. #34
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLZapped View Post
    OK, lets start with some visual illusions:

    Visual Illusions

    Now lets move on to aural illusions:

    Shepard Tones

    Tri-Tone Effect





    Yep.

    -Bruce
    FLZapped...what took you so long?
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  10. #35
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    I'm starting to wonder if we all hear the same.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  11. #36
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    "It is almost impossible not to hear what you think you are going to hear" - Siegfried Linkwitz

  12. #37
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Point being...some hear better than others...especially if one thinks a zip cord is all is needed.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  13. #38
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    "It is almost impossible not to hear what you think you are going to hear" - Siegfried Linkwitz
    What a perfect example of one with expectation bias. He definitely doesn't hear the cumulative effect of over a dozen op amps in the Orion crossover. He definitely doesn't hear the mediocre sound of the generic amps he recommends.

    Here's a visual as to the distortion added by zip cord and various coaxials. Note the added high frequency hash. Also, high dielectric constant cables store energy and create smear in the time domain which affects clarity and soundstaging.

    rw

  14. #39
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    "As far as I am concerned a transaction where one guy sells a Quantum purifier cable to another should result with the buyer in the crazy house and the seller behind bars"

    - Dan Lavry ( Lavry Engineering )

  15. #40
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    "As far as I am concerned a transaction where one guy sells a Quantum purifier cable to another should result with the buyer in the crazy house and the seller behind bars"
    I confess this is the first time I've seen someone combine two logical fallacies - that of Argument from authority and Reductio ad absurdum in a single argument. Congratulations!

    BTW, he was talking about Bybee products.

    rw
    Last edited by E-Stat; 09-15-2011 at 09:53 AM.

  16. #41
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    What exactly is a "quantum purifier cable" and how does this relate to audio cables?

    rw


    Thank you, I was going to ask.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  17. #42
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    http://www.essex.ac.uk/csee/research...bles_1985).pdf

    The Essex Echo
    Malcolm Omar Hawksford
    Audiophiles are exited. A special event has occurred that promises to undermine
    their very foundation and transcend "the event sociological": a minority group now
    cite conductor and interconnect performance as a limiting factor within an audio
    system. The masses, however, are still content to congregate with their like-minded
    friends and make jokes in public about the vision of the converted, content to watch
    their distortion factor meters confidently null at the termination of any old piece of
    wire. Believing in Ohm's law, they feel strong in their brotherhood.
    But the revolution moves forward. . .
    This article examines propagation in cables from the fundamental principles of
    modern electromagnetic theory. The aim is to attempt to identify mechanisms
    that form a rational basis for a more objective understanding of claimed sonic
    anomalies in interconnects. Especially as I keep hearing persistent rumours
    about the virtues of single-strand, thin wires (John, is it OK to mention thin,
    single strand in HFN/RR yet? . . .)
    Inevitably, the path towards an objective understanding depends upon both
    the correctness and completeness of the model selected. We shall establish,
    therefore, a theoretic stance initially and commence with the work of Maxwell
    (even though he could not avail himself of a distortion factor meter.) The
    equations of Maxwell concisely describe the foundation and principles of
    electromagnetism; they are central to a proper modelling of all electromagnetic
    systems. The equation set is presented below in standard differential form,
    where further discussion and background can be sought from a wide range of
    texts(1, 2, 3).
    Maxwell's Equations:
    Faraday's Law Ampere's Law
    curl E = -
    ¶t
    ¶B
    curl H = J +
    ¶t
    ¶D
    Gauss's Theorem No magnetic monopoles
    div D = r div B = 0
    The constituent relationships that define electrical and magnetic material
    properties are,
    bD = e0erbE bB = μ0μrbH
    bJ = s bE (if s is constant then this equation represents
    Ohm's law)
    However, it is common to write e = e0er and μ = μ0μtrhus bD = ebE and
    bB = μbH
    where,
    bE, electric field strength, (volt/m)
    1
    bB, magnetic flux density, (tesla)
    bD, electric flux density, (coulomb/m2)
    r, charge density, (coulomb/m3)
    s, conductivity, (ohm-m)-1 (conductivity is the reciprocal of resistivity)
    bH, magnetic intensity, (ampere-(turn)-m)
    bJ, current density, (ampere/m2)
    e0, permittivity of free space, (farad/m)
    er, relative permittivity
    μ0, permeability of free space, (henry/m)
    μr, relative permeability
    t, time, (second)
    (The bar over some parameters indicate vector or directed quantities.)
    It is relatively straightforward to show that the Maxwellian equation set is able
    to support a wave equation that governs the propagation of the electric and
    magnetic fields in both space and time. However, for those more interested in
    the sociological behavioural patterns of the ethnic minority of audiophiles,
    allow me a moment to describe the circumstances in which this article is being
    prepared.
    The date is April 1st 1985 (honest). I have freed myself of the conservative
    British climate (political, weather and audio) and undertaken a transposition to
    the red-walled town of Marrakech in Morocco. The sky is clear and blue, the
    sun warm, yet the snow lies dormant on the Atlas mountains. The sound of a
    distant Arabic chant of the Koran sets a background, while the birds sing,
    watching the blossom develop on a multitude of orange trees, awaiting the
    fresh living fruit that matures in hours of endless sunshine, ready for my
    breakfast! There may yet not be a length of large crystal copper within a
    thousand mile radius. I shall check out the market place this afternoon,
    disguised with black beard and djelaba . . . ! That's strange. the snake
    charmer's snake has Snaic written on its side . . . ?
    Let formal study commence. The wave equation describing a propagating
    electric field bE in a general lossy medium of conductivity s, permittivity e and
    permeability μ is derived as follows:
    Operating by curl on the Faraday equation,
    curl(curl E) = - curl( ¶t
    ¶B ) = - μ ¶t

    curl H
    Substitute for curl bH from Ampere's law,
    curl(curl E) = - μ ¶t
    ¶J
    - μ
    ¶t2
    ¶2D
    Substitute also the Ohm's law relationship, bJ = s bE and the vector identity,
    curl(curl E) = grad(div E) - Ñ2E
    2
    where, assuming a charge-free region, div bD = 0, (i.e. div bE = 0), the
    generalised wave equation follows directly,
    Ñ2E = ms
    ¶t
    ¶E + me
    ¶t2
    ¶2E
    Consider a steady-state, sinusoidal electric field bE, propagating within a
    medium of finite conductivity. The travelling wave must inevitably experience
    attenuation due to heating, so let us examine a possible solution to the wave
    equation, that has the form,
    E= Eoe–az sin(wt –bz)
    z
    Figure 1 Electric and magnetic fields, mutually at right angles and
    propagating in z direction.
    E
    H
    The field E is shown here to propagate in a direction z, where the direction of E
    is at right-angles to z, as shown in Figure 1. The attenuation of the wave with
    distance is chosen to be exponential, e–az, where a is defined as the
    attenuation constant, while the distance travelled by the wave is determined by
    b, the phase constant,
    b=
    2p
    l
    and l (metre) is the wavelength of the propagating field. The frequency at
    which the wave oscillates is defined by w, (2pf) rad/s. Thus, for constant z, E
    varies sinusoidally, while for constant t, E varies as an exponentially decaying
    sinewave. An exponential decay is a logical choice, as for each unit distance
    the wave propagates, it is attenuated by the same amount.
    3
    To check the validity of our chosen solution, the function for E must satisfy the
    wave equation. This validation usefully enables the constants a and b (see
    expression for E) to be expressed as s, e, μ and w. However, the substitution
    although straightforward is somewhat tedious, so I will state the
    commencement and show the conclusion:
    Substitute, E= Eoe–az sin(wt –bz) into,
    ¶z2
    ¶2E
    = μs
    ¶t
    ¶E
    + μe
    ¶t2
    ¶2E
    Yes, the function for E is a solution, providing that
    b2 - a2 = mew2
    ab =
    2
    wms
    Solving for a and b,
    a2 =
    2
    mew2
    (1 + (
    ew
    s )2 )0.5 - 1
    b=
    wms
    2a .
    Sometimes a and b are written in terms of the propagation constant g, where
    g = a + jb. Thus the constants a, b that govern the propagating field are
    expressed as a function of the supporting medium, where the parameters (μ, e,
    a) are readily available for many materials.
    OK, so you may not have followed the detail of the mathematics, but do not
    worry. It is really only important here to follow the philosophy of the
    development, that is,
    (a) Commence with the established Maxwellian equation set, from which
    the generalised wave equation for propagation in a lossy material is
    derived.
    (b) Guess at a logical solution for a sinusoidal plane wave, knowing the
    Fourier analysis allows generalisation to more complex waveforms (at
    least for a linear medium).
    (c) Show that the chosen solution satisfies the wave equation, where the
    constants a and b follow as functions of μ, e, s and w.
    4
    (d) The velocity of propagation v metre/second also follows from w and b,
    where the velocity is the "number of wavelengths" travelled in one
    second, thus
    v = fl = 2pf (
    2p
    l ) =
    b
    w
    At this juncture, it is now possible to classify materials into good conductors
    (metals) and poor conductors (lossy dielectrics), though it is important to note
    that this demarcation is frequency dependent.
    (i) Poor conductor: (i.e.. dielectric materials with very low conductivity) s is
    small such that, s << ew, whereby the expression for the attenuation
    constant shows a o 0, and the wave experiences minimal attenuation.
    This condition applies to propagation in both free space and low-loss
    dielectrics, where the velocity of propagation can be shown to be,
    v =
    (me)
    1
    =
    (mr er)
    300 . 108
    m / s
    and μr and er, are the relative permeability and permittivity of the
    supporting medium (μr= 1, er = 1 for free space), that is for free space, v
    = c, the velocity of light. This is the "fast bit" and results in the comment
    that for audio interconnects, the velocity of propagation within the
    dielectric is so high that signals respond virtually instantaneously across
    the length of the cable. OK, we will not argue, will we John? John
    Atkinson smiled, his Linn bounced happily with the platter remaining
    horizontal.
    (ii) Good conductors: (e.g. copper). Here we assume, s >> ew i.e. w <<
    s/e which for copper implies f < 1.04 . 1018 Hz.
    s = 5.8 . 107 (ohm-m)–1
    e = 8.855 . 10–12 farad/m
    μ = 4p . 10–7 henry/m
    at audio frequencies, copper is a good conductor, where the
    expressions for a and b approximate to,
    a = b = [mws/2]0.5
    values for a and b are identical for a
    good conductor
    and the velocity, v =
    w
    b , whereby
    5
    v =
    ms
    2w
    very much less than for a material with
    low conductivity
    For copper a, b and v are given by,
    a = b = 15.13 f and v = 0.415 f
    Note the frequency dependence of a,
    b, v
    !All significant at audio !
    (i.e. at 1 kHz the velocity is 1/25 of the velocity of sound in air . . . )
    Skin depth
    A parameter often quoted when discussing propagation within a conducting
    medium is skin depth, d (metre). d is defined as the distance an
    electromagnetic wave propagates for its amplitude to be attenuated by a factor
    e–1, i.e. 8.69 dB (where e is the same e as in an exponential, e = 2.718282,
    therefore e–1 = 0.3679).
    Recall, E = Eoe-az sin(wt – bz), thus, for z = d, then e-ad = e-1
    d =
    a
    1 =
    mws
    2
    i.e. the skin depth d is simply the reciprocal of the attenuation constant a. It is
    strictly a convenient definition (see later: "Digression"). but note, the field still
    exists for z > d, even though it is attenuated e.g. for z = 3.5 d, just over a 30 dB
    attenuation is attained.
    For copper, it follows, d = (15.13 f )–1
    . It is also interesting to note that the
    phase of E, (bz) has changed by 1 radian at z = d, a far from negligible figure.
    The following table gives example calculations of skin depth and velocity
    against frequency.
    Table of d and v for copper against frequency f
    frequency
    f hertz
    skin depth
    d, mm
    velocity v
    m/s
    6
    50
    100
    1,000
    10,000
    20,000
    9.35
    6.61
    2.09
    0.66
    0.47
    2.93
    4.15
    13.12
    41.50
    58.69
    Note the low value of velocity, which is directly
    attributable to the high value of conductivity of
    copper, s = 5.8.107 (ohm-m)–1
    Note also, for information:
    s (silver) = 6.14 . 107 (ohm-m)–1
    s (aluminium) = 3.54 . 107 (ohm-m)–1
    These results suggest a copper wire of 0.5 o 1 mm diameter is optimum (see
    also later "Digression"). However, the story is far from complete: an electric
    field travelling within copper has a low velocity and experiences high
    attenuation, that results in skin depths significant to audio interconnect design.
    The frequency dependence of d (also a and b) should not be underestimated;
    the copper acts as a spatial filter, the field patterns within the conductor, for a
    broad-band signal, exhibit a complex form (see Figure 3, for example). Now
    introduce either/both a spatially distributed non-linearity or discontinuous
    conductivity, as previously discussed in HFN/RR (4), and the defects of cables
    become more plausible. The distortion residues (linear and/or non-linear)
    would exhibit a complex, frequency interleaved structure, that could well play
    to an area of our ear/brain detection process, especially when monitoring an
    optimally projected stereophonic field. After all, the ear is both non-linear and
    a Fourier analyser; it would seem strange if we had not evolved a matched,
    intelligent detector to exploit the complex, possible non-linear, time smeared
    patterns that must inevitably result. I believe Gerzon, Fellgett and Craven have
    researched the application of bi-spectral processes as an augmentation to
    Ambisonics. Is it here that the final, almost hidden, link in our fundamental
    understanding of audio systems is to be found?
    OK, so those who become bored with my earlier analysis may begin again with
    a new aroused interest. The rest of us will have a Gin and Martini, on crushed
    rocks (rocket fuel), while you complete your revision. Shaken not stirred,
    please, Ivor.
    Let us proceed with the model development. Electromagnetic theory shows a
    cable to be a wave guide, the conductors acting as "guiding rails" for the
    electromagnetic energy that propagates principally through the space between
    the conductors, where the currents in the wires are directly a result of the field
    boundary conditions at the dielectric/wire interface. This may prove a difficult
    conceptual step for those more accustomed to lumped circuits and the
    retrogressive 'water pipe' models. However, a wave guide model is correct,
    irrespective of cable geometry, only the field patterns vary depending upon the
    conductor shape and their spatial relationship. This theory is not new, it has
    been widely accepted and practised by engineers for many years.
    A propagating electromagnetic wave consists of an oscillation of energy back
    and forth between the magnetic and electric fields, the energy in the electric
    and magnetic field must therefore be equal. Think of space (both in general
    and within the dielectric of the cable) as a distributed LC (oscillator) network.
    7
    Note: the energy propagates
    in an axial direction in the region
    between the two conductors
    Outer
    conductor
    Inner
    conductor
    E, electricfield
    H,magneticfield
    v, velocity showing
    showingaxial direction
    of propagation
    H
    E
    v
    Fig. 2 Cross section of coaxial cable showing radial E field
    and circumferential H field.
    E
    H
    axial
    direction
    For example, examine the coaxial cable shown in Figure 2. The electric field is
    everywhere radial, while the magnetic field forms concentric circles around the
    inner conductor (Ampere's circuital law). It is important to note that the bE
    and bH fields are both spatially at right angles to each other and to the
    direction of propagation, which is along the axis of the cable. This is a direct
    result of Maxwell's equations.
    In an electromagnetic system, the power flow is represented as a density
    function bP (watt/metre2), called the Poynting vector, where
    bP = bE x bH
    For the coaxial cable, bP is directed axially. Integrate bP over a cross section
    of area and the total power carried by the cable results. The expression for bP
    can be compared with power calculations in lumped systems, where P = VI
    (i.e. V o bE field, I o bH field).
    If we assume the two conductors of the coaxial cable are initially ideal, where
    s o ¥, then all the electromagnetic energy flows in the dielectric. The bE field
    does not penetrate the conductors, the skin depth is zero (check with
    expression for d) and the conductors act as perfect reflectors (that's why
    mirrors are coated with good conductors). In this case, there is only a surface
    current on each conductor to match the boundary condition for the tangential,
    magnetic field bH, at the dielectric/conductor interface(2).
    8
    OK, so in your mind you should now visualise a radio wave travelling within the
    dielectric, being guided by the conductors, where the electric and magnetic
    fields are both at right angles to each other and to the direction of propagation
    along the axis of the cable.
    However, this example is unrealistic as practical cables have conductors of
    finite conductivity, s. Experience shows that such conductors exhibit signal
    loss, where at a molecular level, friction-like forces convert electrical energy
    into heat.
    As the wave front progresses through the dielectric, the boundary condition is
    such that the electric field, bE, is not quite at 90° to the conductor surface,
    which is a direct consequence of the finite conductivity. The wave, in a way,
    no longer takes the shortest path along the dielectric of the cable and appears
    to travel more slowly. However, at each dielectric-conductor interface, a
    refracted field now results within the conductor which proceeds to propagate
    virtually at right angles to the axis of the cable, into the interior of the
    conductor. This is the loss field. In other works, the majority of the
    electromagnetic energy propagates in a near axial direction, within the
    dielectric, but a much reduced loss field propagates almost radially into each
    conductor, with the electric field Es oriented axially along the length of the
    conductor. It is this component that is controlled by the internal parameters
    (μ, s, e) of the copper and is ultimately attenuated by conversion to heat. It is
    here that the story becomes more relevant to audio.
    A conductor of finite conductivity causes electromagnetic energy to spill out
    from the dielectric into the conductor. We should also note that although the
    main component of energy propagates rapidly within the dielectric along the
    axis of the cable, the energy spilling out into the conductor propagates much
    more slowly (see earlier table) and the parameters a, b, that govern the loss
    wave are frequency dependent, a significant complication. It is the loss wave
    within the conductor that results directly in current within the copper. We
    would, therefore, expect a complex current distribution throughout the volume
    of the conductor, and that is precisely what we get, see Figure 3.
    9
    V
    e
    conductor
    ZL
    VL Vg
    E directionof
    propagation of
    dielectric mainfield
    V
    e
    conductor
    E E E E E E E
    V
    g generator voltage
    V
    e
    error voltage across
    conductor length
    E
    s
    loss field in conductor
    E external electric field
    VL
    load voltage
    radial direction of
    propagation of loss field
    r
    Fig. 3 Basic field relatioships and direction of propagation of main
    external field and internal loss field.
    r
    E
    s
    E
    s
    r
    r
    r
    Meanwhile, back at the Maxwellian equation set,
    bJs = sbEs (this is Ohm's law)
    That is, a conduction current density bJs is induced axially within the
    conductors due to the internal electric field, bEs, of the loss wave. This axial
    current is the current we normally associate with cables: the model is
    compatible with more usual observations of cable behaviour.
    Since the electromagnetic energy of the loss wave propagates principally in a
    radial direction, entering the conductor over its surface area, the current
    density (which is proportional to bEs) is greatest at the surface and decays as
    the field propagates into the conductor interior. It is this reason why a
    conductor experiences a skin effect, rather than the converse with the current
    concentrated near the centre of the conductor.
    One of the more instructive parameters is the time Td, for the sinusoidal loss
    field, Es, to traverse a distance d within a good conductor, where since,
    v =
    b
    w =
    a
    w = wd
    then
    T
    d
    = v
    d =
    w
    1
    | s >> we
    For example, consider a copper bar where the diameter is greater than the
    skin depth,
    10
    d = 0.66 mm at 10 kHz : Td = 15.9 μs
    d = 2.09 mm at 1 kHz : Td = 0.159 ms
    d = 6.61 mm at 100 Hz : Td = 1.59 ms
    i.e., the lower the frequency and the larger the conductor diameter, the longer
    Td. There is energy storage, it is a memory mechanism.
    Observe the importance of discussing principally a time domain model. Our
    thesis is attempting to demonstrate that a (copper) conductor exhibits
    significant memory, that influences transient behaviour by time smearing by a
    significant amount a small fraction of the applied signal.
    Consider the cable construction shown in Figure 3. Allow the generator to
    input a sinewave for a time >> Td, to enable the steady-state to be established.
    The bE field between the conductors responds rapidly to the applied signal, as
    the velocity in the dielectric between the conductors is high. We are assuming
    here a terminating load to the cable, so there is a net energy flow through the
    dielectric. Remember as the wave front progresses, so a radial loss wave
    propagates into each conductor, where the bEs field is aligned in an axial
    direction.
    Now allow the applied signal to be suddenly switched off. The field between
    the conductors collapses rapidly, thus cutting off the signal energy being fed
    radially into the conductors. However, the low velocity and high attenuation of
    the loss wave represents a loss-energy reservoir, where the time for the wave
    to decay to insignificance as it propagates into the interior of the conductor, is
    non-trivial, by audio dimensions.
    The bEs field within the conductor can be visualised as many "threads" of bE
    field as shown in Figure 3. The voltage appearing across the ends of each
    thread, De, is calculated by multiplying the bEs field by the cable length, L,
    though more strictly, this is an integral, where
    De = ò
    l=0
    L
    E . dl
    However, the macroscopic voltage across a conductor, Ve (i.e. that measured
    externally) is the sum of all these many elemental voltages. Because the field
    propagates slowly, this summation is actually an average taken over a time
    window, extending over a short history of the loss field. Consequently, when
    the generator stops, the error signal across each conductor does not collapse
    instantaneously, the conductor momentarily becomes the generator and a
    small time-smeared transient residual results as the locally stored energy
    within each conductor dissipates to insignificance.
    Assuming the two conductors are symmetrical, then the total error voltage is
    2Ve, whereby the load voltage VL is related to the generator voltage Vg, by VL =
    Vg - 2Ve. Clearly, Ve << Vg, however, Ve takes on a complex and time-smeared
    form that in practice is both a function of the conductor geometry, cable
    characteristic impedance, generator source impedance and load impedance,
    as all these factors govern the propagation of both the main electric field, bE
    and the electric loss field bEs. In practice, unless the cable is terminated in its
    characteristic impedance, the main field bE will traverse the length of the
    11
    cable, rapidly back and forth, many times, before establishing a pseudo-steady
    state. Of course, an optimal load termination unfortunately implies a
    significant loss field in the conductors.
    This argument would suggest that for non-power carrying interconnects, it is
    better to terminate the generator end of the cable in the characteristic
    impedance, leaving the load high impedance. The bE field is then rapidly
    established in the dielectric, without either multiple reflection along the cable
    length, or a finite power flow to the load spilling out a loss wave into the
    conductors.
    Oh! I see these last comments have raised a question from the floor, from the
    dark haired Moroccan lady almost wearing a 'belly dancer's costume in the
    front row: she want to know what happens to the electromagnetic field
    propagating through the copper conductor when it encounters an abrupt
    discontinuity in conductivity, and if this has a correlation with defects in
    copper, attributable to crystal boundary interfaces. (No, Ken, this is not the
    appropriate time to recommend the use of Gold Lion KT77s.)
    Consider for a moment a long transmission line terminated in its characteristic
    impedance. Electromagnetic energy entering the line will then propagate in a
    uniform manner, finally being totally absorbed in the load (just as a VHF aerial
    cable which is terminated in 75 W). If, however, the termination is in error,
    then a proportion of the incident energy will be reflected back along the cable
    towards the source. In extreme cases, where there is either an open or a
    short-circuit load, then all the incident energy is reflected, although with a
    short circuit the sign of the bE field is reversed on reflection, thus cancelling
    the electric field in the cable and telling the source there is a short circuit
    termination. The point to observe, is that a discontinuity in the characteristic
    impedance results in at least partial reflection at the discontinuity, which will
    distort the time-domain waveform. This reflective property of a change in
    characteristic impedance can be used, for example, to locate faults in long
    lengths of cable, by using time domain reflectometry, that is, a pulse is
    transmitted along the cable and the returned partial echoes from each
    discontinuity are measured, their return times then locate the fault. It is the
    same principle as radar, though the universe is a narrow cable.
    Similarly, for a wave travelling in copper, a discontinuity in impedance leads to
    partial reflection centred on the discontinuity. This effect must therefore be
    compounded with an already dispersive propagation, i.e. different frequencies
    propagate at different velocities thus time smearing the error signal or loss
    wave in the conductor. OK, let's now play to the gallery . . .
    This observation certainly gives some insight into the effects of crystal
    boundaries within copper, where each boundary can be viewed as a
    discontinuity in s and corresponds to zones of partial reflection for the radial
    loss field. Note however, that this property is not necessarily non-linear. We do
    not have to invoke a semiconductor type non-linearity to identify a problem, we
    are talking probably of mainly linear errors. So we would not necessarily
    expect a significant reading on the distortion factor meter or modulation noise
    side-bands on high-resolution spectral analysis, for a stead-state excitation.
    However, just as with loudspeaker measurements, amplitude-only response
    measurements do not give a complete representation of stored energy and
    time delay phenomena. We would require very careful measurements directly
    of the errors with both amplitude and phase, or of impulse responses in the
    time domain. Following the comments on the error function in an earlier Essex
    Echo(5), direct measurements of the output signal will yield, in general,
    12
    insufficient accuracy to allow a true estimate of the system error. This point is
    worth thinking about, re-read my earlier comments in the first Echo (5). Ideally,
    we need to assess the actual current distribution in the conductors, or at least
    to measure the conductor error directly.
    A smile now appeared on the young lady's face, it was Alice through the
    Looking Glass all over again - she now understood the subtle distortion in
    John Atkinson's reflection. As she relaxed, her large crystal diamond of high
    permittivity fell to the floor.
    The final stage in the development of our model, is to account for copper
    conductors of finite thickness, where the thickness may well be much less than
    the skin depth. Just as a wave travelling in air when confronted by a shortcircuit
    is reflected, so a wave travelling in a conductor, that encounters an
    open circuit (e.g. copper-air boundary) also undergoes reflection and therefore
    passes back into the conductor, undergoing further attenuation. However, the
    boundary condition requires a reversal of the magnetic field, thus providing the
    thickness of the conductor is much less than the skin depth, the incident and
    reflected bH fields nearly cancel and the conductor exhibits a lower internal
    magnetic field. Consequently, there is predominantly an axial electric field and
    corresponding conduction current, the conductor behaves nearly as a pure
    resistor, i.e. the magnetic field hence, effectively, inductive component, is
    reduced to the pseudo-static case. The current distribution is nearly uniform.
    The conductor has lost its memory.
    Digression
    For completeness, let us now take a more conventional look at skin depth, to
    demonstrate that our model is consistent (OK John, not running out of time
    yet?)
    A direct effect of skin depth is the well-known phenomena that the current in a
    conductor resides near the surface at high frequency, where this notion is
    perfectly consistent with our model.
    A reason for specifying d as the distance travelled whereby the field has
    decayed a fraction e–1 is as follows:
    Let the current density be given by: Js = Jo e-az sin (wt – bz)
    The total instantaneous current, I, in a strip of conductor of width DY but of
    infinite extent in z is then,
    I = DY ò
    z=0
    ¥
    J0 e-a zsin(v t - ßz) dz
    Evaluating the integral, putting a = b = d–1 gives,
    I = d DY J0 sin(v t - p/4)
    The result above shows that the amplitude of the total conduction current is {d
    DY Jo}, it is as if a uniform current density existed only for z = 0 to d, but was
    13
    everywhere else zero for z > d. This leads to our colloquial notion of skin
    depth, but observe how the -p/4 phase shift (-45 degree) with respect to the
    surface-current density, disguises the propagation of the conduction current
    that is internal to the conductors. So we see there is a logical foundation for
    our definition of skin depth.
    This convenient but approximate view-point of the current distribution being
    concentrated in the skin depth allows us to estimate an approximate
    impedance for the conductor, based upon the principle that the conductor is
    now only of thickness d. Note however, that this approximation completely
    removes the more subtle structure of our model.
    Imagine a cylindrical conductor of diameter D metre and length L metre where
    d < 0.5 D. Picture the skin depth as an annulus as shown in Figure 4. We
    may write the modulus of the dc and ac impedances |Zdc|, |Zac| measured
    across a length of L of this conductor, as
    d
    Figure 4 Cylindrical conductor showing approximation to skin depth.
    D
    approximation to skin depth
    |Zdc| =
    s pD2
    4 L
    and, |Zac| =
    s pd (D - d )
    L
    but substituting for d from our earlier result.
    d =
    a
    1 =
    mws
    2
    then for the case where d << 0.5 D,
    14
    |Zdc|
    |Zac|
    =
    4 d (D - d )
    D2
    »
    4 d
    D »
    4
    D
    2
    mv s
    Returning to Maxwell, we could also show that when the impedance is
    proportional to Ö(frequency). that there is a 45° phase shift between voltage
    and current, but when d approaches D/2 and ultimately, d > D, then Zac is
    substantially resistive with zero phase, which is our usual low frequency model
    of a piece of wire.
    Hence, where d = D/2, we expect to observe a transitional region in the
    effective conductor impedance, i.e.. |Zac| » |Z dc|. This critical frequency fc
    follows approximately from our expression for a by putting a = 1/d = 2/D,
    whereby
    f c =
    4
    pmsD2
    e.g. for a diameter of 0.8 mm fc = 27 kHz. However, this is only approximate
    as the cylindrical geometry has not been fully accounted for in the analysis.
    Hence, thin conductors behave more like resistors over the audio band,
    whereas thick wires have a complex impedance, rather like the "square root of
    an inductor" i.e. the impedance modulus is proportional to Öf, the phase – 45°.
    In this latter discussion, we have interpreted our model in the steady-state, and
    as a lumped impedance. However, we should not lose sight of the timedomain
    model and the generalisation to a discontinuous or granular
    conductivity. Again, as observed in the earlier Echo(5), steady-state analysis
    though correct, can limit our appreciation of a system. We would not expect
    to observe anomalies on steady-state tests easily as in the main they are
    hidden from view, the test is insensitive. The observations should be made
    when the signal stops, at the end of a tone burst for example, and the error
    signals displayed by using decay spectra, following loudspeaker measurement
    practice.
    In developing our model, we have concentrated on the loss mechanisms
    inherent in the conductors. We have not discussed the characteristic
    impedance observed at the input of the interconnect. This is a direct result of
    the amount of energy in the electric and magnetic field needed to "fill" the
    cable i.e. the propagating energy within the cable system. Ultimately, the
    energy loss in the interconnect is a function of the characteristic impedance
    and the length and load termination as these directly influence the loss field,
    hence conductor current, hence voltage across the cable length. The load
    impedance that terminates the line is mapped into the interconnect error
    mechanisms which is particularly relevant with loudspeaker loads.
    The detailed characteristics of the dielectric material are also important as the
    model shows that the dielectric supports the majority of the signal during its
    transportation across the cable (which can take many passes if the cable is not
    optimally terminated). Dielectric-loss has been cited as a contributory factor,
    which can be modelled as an equivalent frequency dependent, but low
    conductivity sd where
    sd = we (Power factor), and power factors vary(2) from typically ~0.0005 to
    15
    0.05. The attenuation and phase constants then follow as ad = 0.05wÖ(μe)
    (Power factor), bd = Ö(μe). However, it is difficult to see how these results
    affect audio cables from this simplistic appraisal. A more detailed study of the
    permittivity of dielectrics is required. Directional wave characteristics could
    well affect the loss wave launched into the conductors. But times is running
    out . . .
    Conclusions
    The basic elements of our model are now complete, where we propose the
    internal loss fields that propagate within the conductors are at least partially
    responsible for some claimed anomalies. The points to emphasis are as
    follows:
    (a) The loss component propagates at right angles to the axis of the cable i.e.
    radially into the conductors.
    (b) The loss field gives rise to the corresponding internal current distribution
    along the axis of the conductor (bJs = sEs). Note for the loss
    component, that although the direction of propagation is radial, the bEs
    field is at right-angles to the direction of propagation of the radial loss
    wave and is along the conductor axis. This induces an axial conduction
    current and is the component of current normally experienced.
    (c) The velocity of propagation within the conductor (copper) is both very
    slow and frequency dependent, consequently, different frequencies
    propagate at different velocities i.e. the material is highly dispersive and
    acts as a spatial filter.
    (d) The velocity of the loss field is directly dependent upon the conductivity
    s and pemeability μ, which should be noted for magnetic materials.
    Usual analysis assumes s to be a smooth and continuous function.
    However, crystal boundaries suggest discontinuities in s, such that the
    conductors appear more like stranded, though disjointed, wire where
    such discontinuity represents a point of at least partial reflection and
    field redistribution.
    (e) There is a problem even if s is a linear but discontinuous function.
    However, non-linearity due to partial semiconductor diode boundaries
    would lead to a very complex, frequency interleaved intermodulation that
    could be governed by bi-spectral processes, to which the ear/brain may
    have a significant sensitivity; such residues would of course be at low
    level.
    (f) Stranded conductors appear to be a poor construction, when viewed by
    this model. The loss component propagates against the strands and will
    experience discontinuities of air/copper that are inevitably random. This
    is comparable to a large-scale granularity, where crystal boundaries
    represent possibly a similar structure but within the copper. A single
    strand of large crystal copper will behave more as a simple impedance
    as outlined in the "Digression". Normal simplified theory and actual
    conductor performance merge, where at a diameter circa 0.8 mm the
    conductor becomes closer to a low-valued ideal resistor, at audio
    frequencies.
    16
    (g) Irregularities in cable construction and directional wave properties in the
    dielectric could well lead to differences in the bEs field patterns, hence
    current distribution within the conductors, depending upon which end is
    the source. (I wonder if current vortices can result, like whirlpools in a
    stream of water?) The exact nature of the loss field (error field) would, in
    principle, exhibit differences and thus allow the cable to have a
    directional characteristic in that the error is not mirror symmetric. For
    example, slight variations in diameter, or indeed internal crystal
    structure, may well occur in manufacture due to stress fields. Such
    effects however, would appear to be in the domain of error of errors, and
    of an extremely subtle nature, where steady-state measurements would
    exhibit poor measurement sensitivity, yet the residues from impulse
    testing would contain low energy. In other works, very difficult to
    measure.
    (h) Since all materials within the cable construction, including surface
    oxidisation of the conductor indirectly affect the boundary conditions,
    hence loss field, we would expect each element to contribute to
    performance.
    (i) The time taken for the field to propagate to the skin depth d, is longer at
    low frequency. Thus, thick conductors would appear more problematic
    at low frequency, showing a greater tendency for time dispersion (overhang).
    (j) d = [2/(wms)]0.5, magnetic conductors have μ-dependent skin depths and
    μ is partially non-linear. This needs investigation; it suggests magnetic
    conductors should be avoided. (Of course, I would never admit to
    checking passive components with a magnet . . . )
    (k) The ear-brain sensitivity to particular complex, high-order frequencydependent
    intermodulation distortion requires careful research, using
    possible interconnect defects as a basis for identifying classes of error
    and of error correlation mechanisms.
    (l) Stepping back and observing the problem macroscopically, it appears
    cable defects have their greatest effect under transient excitation rather
    than within the pseudo steady-state of sustained tones. Transient edges
    are effectively time smeared or broadened albeit by a small amount,
    where this dispersion is a function of both the signal and the properties
    and dimensions of the conductors. Amplitude frequency response
    errors in the steady-state are at a level that is insignificant when listening
    to steady-state tones. Their significance however, when mapped via the
    error function onto transient signals may well be of greater concern,
    particularly when the errors are monitored optimally in stereo. In this
    sense, we support the Editorial comments recently made by John
    Atkinson on the importance of maintaining transient integrity at the
    beginning and end of sequences of sound, rather then worrying about
    slight relative level errors in the pseudo steady-state of a sustained tone,
    or a slight change in harmonic balance. It's the old story of measuring a
    frequency and phase response with insufficient accuracy to extract the
    true system error and then misinterpreting the significance of that error:
    check out the error function(5).
    (m) At audio frequencies, axial propagation within the dielectric is usually
    not considered important as interconnects are generally much shorter
    than a wavelength, even at 20 kHz. However, we have directed our
    17
    attention to the loss field within the conductors, where, due to the slow
    velocity, cable dimensions comparable to wavelength are significant. It
    is suggested that this viewpoint is usually not considered, where skin
    depth is rarely appreciated in audio circles to be a propagation
    phenomena.
    From these observations, we conclude that conductors should be sufficiently
    thin that only a fraction of a wavelength at the highest audio frequency is
    trapped within the conductors. The external propagating fields should be
    distributed as uniformly as possible over the whole surface of the conductor.
    The composite cable should be tightly wrapped, to prevent external
    mechanical vibration from modulating the characteristic impedance (shaking
    wires, coils and interconnects in loudspeaker systems, for example). (Thinks:
    could the crystal boundaries be vibration dependent? . . . time to stop. Oh,
    everyone but the Moroccan girl and Ken has left!)
    This article has tried to describe a more rigorous model (finely etched with a
    little speculation) for cable systems by reviewing some fundamental
    electromagnetic principles. It is important not to make engineering
    simplifications too prematurely when evolving a model. Clearly, we have made
    some approximations as field patterns can be highly complicated, depending
    on cable geometry's and internal material behaviour at a molecular level (and I
    keep thinking of current vortices). Nevertheless, there is sufficient evidence to
    suggest a cable's performance is not as simple as it first appears, often
    because the operation is viewed too approximately and our notions of lumped
    circuit elements (discrete Rs, Cs, Ls etc) warp our thinking, especially with
    respect to skin depth. To me, the most striking observation is the slow,
    frequency dependent velocity of a wave travelling in a conductor; it's rather like
    launching a sound wave into a room and waiting for the reverberant field to
    decay. Also, a high conductivity and permeability makes the conductor appear
    much larger on the inside and crystal boundaries act as partitions within that
    space. TARDIS o Transient And Resistance DIStortion. Now, who said that?
    Famco of France have just send me some Vecteur cable(6), conductor
    diameter 0.8 mm, large crystal copper, immaculate screening, little arrows . . .
    Now Ken, what was that about KT77s? So you've heard that all
    electromagnetic waves are discrete packages of energy and mercury has a
    non-crystal structure. OK, OK . . . I'll turn up the volume and use only mercury
    capillary interconnects.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  18. #43
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    Here's the PWB Red Pin sound upgrade that some may find interesting :

    The P.W.B. Red 'x' Co-ordinate Pen.

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