HDMI Cable Brands Don't Matter

[Smokey]

According to PC magazine testing, for the vast majority of HDTV owners, a $5 HDMI cable will provide the same performance as a $100 one.

They tested several different HDMI cables and found absolutely no effective difference between a no-name $3 HDMI cable you can order from Amazon.com and a $120 Monster cable you buy at a brick-and-mortar electronics store.

They put the cables through three different tests: a technical quality evaluation, a blind video test, and a 3D-support test. All HDMI cables passed all three tests with flying colors.

They concluded that as long as HDMI cable is 1.4 compliant (10.2 Gbps bandwidth) and it is less than 6 feet, they didn't see any performance differences between HDMI cables.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385272,00.asp

[Luvin Da Blues]

I admit, I didn't read the article (I'm at work). Did they touch on build quality? They all may be fine in a bench test senario but the cheapos probably wouldn't stand up to very much twisting, turning and abuse.

Love my BJ cables.

[Hyfi]

Love my BJ cables.

Luvin Da Blue Jeans

Good questions. Same goes for the old argument of Interconnects. Yes every el cheapo cable will send a signal from one end to the other. But how good is the connection and build.

[Smokey]

Good questions. Same goes for the old argument of Interconnects. Yes every el cheapo cable will send a signal from one end to the other. But how good is the connection and build.

But as oppose to old argument of Interconnects, the HDMI signal is digital which mean the signal will either get thru or it won't. They did mentioned that higher priced HDMI cables were better quality build than cheaper ones (like having lower gauage center wires), but they said as long as signal is passed, it is irrelevent.

Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables.

That is exactly right. They say if HDMI cable is going to be over 10 feet, then should consider higher quality cables as they provide better shielding, lower guage wires and higher bandwidth.

[jjp735i]

I usualy don't post here, but I have to chime in. I purchased a 25ft HDMI thru Amazon for $1.76 and have been using it for months on my HD projector. I don't see any difference from this cable to the smaller 3 foot $23.00 cable I also use.

Although I still beleive there is a big difference in speaker wire and component cables, I don't think HDMI cables from 2 dollars to hunderds, which I've seen make that much difference.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Luvin Da Blue Jeans

Right now I'm luvin' dis.....

[Hyfi]

Right now I'm luvin' dis.....

What is that? An imitation Harley?

I can't tell what it is, looks smooth.

[Luvin Da Blues]

What is that? An imitation Harley?

I can't tell what it is, looks smooth.

Suzuki Intruder 1500 LC, I can't afford a real HD right now with my audio habit an' all Ya know.

[Woochifer]

Unfortunately, HDMI is a badly designed connector. Even the best made cables cannot make up for a flawed design. I will agree that the cable brand is irrelevant to an extent. Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables. But, that might simply be a case of the signal losing integrity at 15' versus 20'.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Unfortunately, HDMI is a badly designed connector. Even the best made cables cannot make up for a flawed design. I will agree that the cable brand is irrelevant to an extent. Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables. But, that might simply be a case of the signal losing integrity at 15' versus 20'.

Jitter increases, and signal strength is reduced once past 15' without a signal amplifier in the chain.

I stated that HDMI brands don't matter three years ago when debating with Peabody on the issue. He stated that one HDMI cable sounded better to his ears than another. I said that cannot be possible because there is no conversion taking place before the DAC in the HDMI cable, so no difference were possible. When it comes to video, either the cable could pass the signal, or it would fail to pass the signal. That is it - as there is no "signal quality" improvements to worry about with HDMI.

[Woochifer]

Jitter increases, and signal strength is reduced once past 15' without a signal amplifier in the chain.

I stated that HDMI brands don't matter three years ago when debating with Peabody on the issue. He stated that one HDMI cable sounded better to his ears than another. I said that cannot be possible because there is no conversion taking place before the DAC in the HDMI cable, so no difference were possible. When it comes to video, either the cable could pass the signal, or it would fail to pass the signal. That is it - as there is no "signal quality" improvements to worry about with HDMI.

That's why I've never liked HDMI turning into the default digital AV standard. The connector design sucks, and performance begins to breakdown well within normal distances. It just reeks of design-by-committee, with little attention to how it performs in real world applications. There are so many more robust connection standards out there for carrying digital data, why the HT industry standardized around HDMI is just puzzling (aside from the HDCP considerations).

Tests I've seen indicate that certain cables will indeed show signal loss sooner than others, and the expensive cables weren't always the best performers. But, that still doesn't make up for the fundamental flaw of HDMI's poor performance over long runs. In my old configuration, I was using a 25' S-vid cable connected to the receiver. At that distance, there was no issue with S-vid or component video, and installers would routinely use much longer runs with analog cables. Those distances are far from routine with HDMI. In my current configuration, I am using a 15' HDMI cable along with an Oppo HM-31 switchbox (which has an equalizer and signal booster), and fortunately, I've not had any issues.

[IBSTORMIN]

Unfortunately, HDMI is a badly designed connector. Even the best made cables cannot make up for a flawed design. I will agree that the cable brand is irrelevant to an extent.

HDMI was not designed with sound quality in mind, it was made to be convenient for the average consumer. It has numerous very thin wires in a small cable attached to a small connector, so it bends easy and is not heavy. This is why, as someone else said, they fail alot. Nobody can make great improvements to a poor design which is limited, like you said, by the small size of it's connector. When I first saw it I couldn't believe we were going to be sending high quality sound AND video through such a small cable. What were they thinking?!!

[Feanor]

HDMI was not designed with sound quality in mind, it was made to be convenient for the average consumer. It has numerous very thin wires in a small cable attached to a small connector, so it bends easy and is not heavy. This is why, as someone else said, they fail alot. Nobody can make great improvements to a poor design which is limited, like you said, by the small size of it's connector. When I first saw it I couldn't believe we were going to be sending high quality sound AND video through such a small cable. What were they thinking?!!

Experts like Wooch or Sir Terrence would likely agree that HDMI wasn't designed to convey analog signals or even a continuous bit streams like a S/PDIF signal; (they'll correct me if I'm wrong). It was designed, (maybe not optimally), to carry structured data. In this respect it is like USB or CAT 5e or 6 cable.

In case of data, the receiving systems is properly supposed to detect transmission failures and compensate in some way, e.g. request that the data be resent. Thus data cables either work or they don't.

[frenchmon]

Experts like Wooch or Sir Terrence would likely agree that HDMI wasn't designed to convey analog signals or even a continuous bit streams like a S/PDIF signal; (they'll correct me if I'm wrong). It was designed, (maybe not optimally), to carry structured data. In this respect it is like USB or CAT 5e or 6 cable.

In case of data, the receiving systems is properly supposed to detect transmission failures and compensate in some way, e.g. request that the data be resent. Thus data cables either work or they don't.

It has error correction code that makes the data redundant so as to free the error. This code is an industry standard.

[frenchmon]

Well I guess I wont be buying the Pangea Audio - HD-24PC - HDMI Cable - 4% Silver Plated at $69. per 2m and will be gettting some old cheap Mediabridge Ultra Series - High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet - Category 2 Certified - Supports 3D & Audio Return Channel [Latest HDMI Version Available] - (6 Feet)
by Mediabridge at $10. per 2m.


Thanks for the information.

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, if our friend has the Pangea in stock maybe you can do a comparison.

When I first got a processor with HDMI I didn't really want to spend $100+ so I bought what I thought would be reasonable, a $40.00 Belkin. My experience was not what they claim in the article. Not to go into the whole long story I had a audio issue with my AV8003 that gave me great buyer's remorse. After trying a variety of things to resolve the problem I switched the HDMI cable as a last resort. I maybe should have tried a cheaper or similar as well to see what happened but I tried a Tributaries. It cured the problem so that's what I stuck with. I thought there was a video improvement but can't be sure but the better cable definitely cured an audio issue, significantly improving the sound quality.

If all there is to digital, delivering the signal, how does Esoteric get away with selling a mere reclocking unit for $13k? Those who think digital is only off or on are mistaken.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If all there is to digital, delivering the signal, how does Esoteric get away with selling a mere reclocking unit for $13k? Those who think digital is only off or on are mistaken.

No they are not mistaken, and test after test has proven this. HDMI either works, or it does not. The cable just passes the signal from the transmitter to the receiver, and does nothing to the signal in the process. Esoteric can get away with anything they want via marketing BS, but it does not change reality. A reclocking unit will only be beneficial if the cable lengths are very long, which can cause jitter to increase with PCM signals. Dts MA and DTHD are not effected by jitter, they are packet based. Since most High Rez recordings on Bluray utilize Dts-HD Master audio and Dolby TruHD as audio carriers, a reclocking device is not needed. SACD is also not susceptible to jitter, so a reclocking device is not needed for that format as well.

[GMichael]

Great! Now I'm missing my last HD.
Nice ride LDB. That 1500 looks fat.

[frenchmon]

How long is your HDMI cable?

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, my HDMI is only 2 meters.

[frenchmon]

Oh...you are driving it with the LINN...sorry I thought you where driving it with the CJ gear. How do you have your speakers connected? Are you using a splitter or switch for both systems?

[Mr Peabody]

I have HDMI going from my satelite receiver & BDP to the processor, RCA from processor to amp. I have two sets of speaker cables, one running from the CJ amps and another from the Linn. I hook and unhook at the back of the speaker using banana plugs depending on which system I want to use.

I should have been more clear, Esoteric reclocks for CD, not sure about SACD or HDMI. However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.

[Smokey]

However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.

Maybe you might had a bad cable. Cable failure seem to be greater with HDMI than other type of cables.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Maybe you might had a bad cable. Cable failure seem to be greater with HDMI than other type of cables.

When you think of it, HDMI cables are more sophisticated than any other cable, maybe that is why they seem to fail more often.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have HDMI going from my satelite receiver & BDP to the processor, RCA from processor to amp. I have two sets of speaker cables, one running from the CJ amps and another from the Linn. I hook and unhook at the back of the speaker using banana plugs depending on which system I want to use.

I should have been more clear, Esoteric reclocks for CD, not sure about SACD or HDMI. However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.

Having a "issue" with a HDMI cable, and advancing the arguement that one cable sounds better than the other are two different things. If you are over taxing the cable(using a HDMI 1.2 cable with 3D or 4K) it will have a problem. If the cable is poorly made, and does not meet HDMI specifications, then it will have a problem. But if you use a certified high speed HDMI cable, you should have zero issues with anything that passes through it.

If you understand how HDMI cables work, there is no way in hell you can make the argument that one HDMI cable sounds better than another. One will not deliver a better picture than another, it just does not work that way. Now the marketing people have a job. They have to get you to part with your money, so they make claims that are not supported by reality, and people believe them. This is why Esoteric, Monster, and ton's of other companies make the claims they do about their cables. As long as the cable meets HDMI specifications, and now passes HDMI certification, then that cable will not add or take anything away from the video or the audio.