Has censorship come to this board?

[TinHere]

It's too bad that I didn't see this thread before I went on my holiday vacation, or I would have answered it quickly before it started. Let me make a few points and challenge your accusations.

Let me first ask why the first hint of any type of moderation on this site should bring about cries of censorship, communism or conspiracy? What used to be a VERY active community (here on AudioReview) has become home to numerous trolls and flamebait for the past couple of years because there had been almost no moderating. The first attempt in two years to clean up the discussions and try to get this forum back to the "audio-related" subjects that made it so great in the first place draws this type of harsh criticism? I'm a little disappointed.

If everyone kept to giving "advice or counseling to newbies about speakers, amplifiers, phonograph cartridges or recordings", there would be no need for moderating at all. Unfortunately, we all know that is not realistic, and that people will push the limits of appropriate discussion in a PRIVATE forum such as ours. Yes, it's true, we will be drawing the lines a little more as to what is acceptable behavior in our forums, as we used to do back when Norbert was running things. We will not censor anyone, but we will delete or lock inappropriate threads and posts that we do find cross the line. All it takes is a little common sense and respect - something that should have been used anyway. It should go without saying, but I guess if you don't say it, people will not use it.

About the thread that was locked - I locked it because it had gone on long enough, and people were complaining about it. Yes, other members were complaining about it, so I chose to lock it. If you want to debate a topic, that's fine. But we would rather people not go to great lengths to try and discredit another site, or other people here on our site. When other members begin complaining, it's obvious that the members have decided it's gone on long enough. We allowed it to take place, but it kept degrading. We would like to increase the quality level around here, and flaming will be a little less tolerated. I personally don't know enough about how Cable Asylum is run, but I don't think it's right for us to allow an ongoing flame session on their policies - do you? If you don't like their site, don't use it. But why use up our forum resources to complain about their policies or ethics? It won't solve anything will it?

I hope the stalwarts, who have remained here for good times and bad, are allowed to discuss the topics they deem relevant. I think that a term such as "Nazi" should be self censored as it trivializes what it really represents, otherwise posts that express rancor about a topic that concerns the audio community, and not just this site, should be allowed. We're all in same building just in different rooms by the choices we make. Lively debate has been the cornerstone here. There are many places to go to preach to the choir and discuss the "benefits" of what is questioned here. I hope this site doesn't dissolve into the amalgam that constitutes most of the other sites and retains it's identity of a place where almost anything can be disscussed and nothing is accepted as truth without the recourse of debate. Demanding proof and questioning claims is a valuable lesson for anyone starting in this pursuit unaware that there are two schools of thought. I realize your aim isn't to stifle debate, but without knowledgable people discussing the issues there is little to be learned. I hope they are given the leeway they have asked for, and moderation is saved for the "sublimely abhorrent".

[Chris]

I hope the stalwarts, who have remained here for good times and bad, are allowed to discuss the topics they deem relevant. I think that a term such as "Nazi" should be self censored as it trivializes what it really represents, otherwise posts that express rancor about a topic that concerns the audio community, and not just this site, should be allowed. We're all in same building just in different rooms by the choices we make. Lively debate has been the cornerstone here. There are many places to go to preach to the choir and discuss the "benefits" of what is questioned here. I hope this site doesn't dissolve into the amalgam that constitutes most of the other sites and retains it's identity of a place where almost anything can be disscussed and nothing is accepted as truth without the recourse of debate. Demanding proof and questioning claims is a valuable lesson for anyone starting in this pursuit unaware that there are two schools of thought. I realize your aim isn't to stifle debate, but without knowledgable people discussing the issues there is little to be learned. I hope they are given the leeway they have asked for, and moderation is saved for the "sublimely abhorrent".

We are not looking to stifle debate, but we would like to minimize the side effects of debates - those being the flame wars and personal attacks that have plagued our forum for some time now. We will not attempt to dictate the subject matter, but we would like it to pertain to audio/video if it's posted in the A/V forums, and we would like people to use common sense and use maturity/appropriate behavior. As I said, this should go without saying, we obviously need to say it.

[skeptic]

I think that a term such as "Nazi" should be self censored as it trivializes what it really represents, otherwise posts that express rancor about a topic that concerns the audio community, and not just this site, should be allowed.

As I said, I chose this word very carefully and I understand its full implications and signifigance. It is an historical fact that the totalitarian method for surpressing intellectual challenge to its dogma is to both control the means of production and dissemination of opinion using it to promulgate it own point of view relentlessly and imposing total censorship on all other points of view. Those who dare to speak out are not merely not allowed to speak but are punished in every other conceivable way the authorities have available to them. In Nazi Germany it meant the gestapo hauling the offender off to a concintration camp to meet a sorry fate. In Soviet Russia and other communist countries, it meant a visit from the MVD (state security) who would assist the offender's tranisit to the Gualg Archipelligo (must reading for understanding the 20th century.) All dissent no matter how seemingly innocent is viewed as a challenge to The State's authority and is treated as an act of open revolt. At Cable Asylum dissent results in a warning followed by banishment which in the sense of being able to participate in debate means the same thing. Yes this is a very powerful word with a very powerful message. And it is the correct message as far as I am concerned and when I can no longer express it here, I'm leaving since this place will have become no better than the other one.

[DMK]

when I can no longer express it here, I'm leaving since this place will have become no better than the other one.

First of all, in response also to your original post on this thread, I find much to disagree with in your posts, particularly those concerned with music. But that pales in comparison to the disagreement I would have were you not allowed to post what you believe. That "other" audio board is run PRECISELY the way I do NOT want to see this one run. The moderator runs his ship exactly as you posted. He posts things as facts that fly in the face of science. As such, he opens himself up to scrutiny on A/R. That said, I choose not to engage in further discussions on A/R as to what he does on his own board. That's his problem and that of his followers. But when he comes to A/R, he's fair game.

Chris, if Skeptic and others are stifled here, I will follow them out. I'm taking you at your word below that that is not your intent. As Skeptic says, this forum ain't broke. It's the one place people can go to get BOTH sides of the WHOLE story. If we disagree, we're free to engage in discourse.

[TinHere]

As I said, I chose this word very carefully and I understand its full implications and signifigance. It is an historical fact that the totalitarian method for surpressing intellectual challenge to its dogma is to both control the means of production and dissemination of opinion using it to promulgate it own point of view relentlessly and imposing total censorship on all other points of view. Those who dare to speak out are not merely not allowed to speak but are punished in every other conceivable way the authorities have available to them. In Nazi Germany it meant the gestapo hauling the offender off to a concintration camp to meet a sorry fate. In Soviet Russia and other communist countries, it meant a visit from the MVD (state security) who would assist the offender's tranisit to the Gualg Archipelligo (must reading for understanding the 20th century.) All dissent no matter how seemingly innocent is viewed as a challenge to The State's authority and is treated as an act of open revolt. At Cable Asylum dissent results in a warning followed by banishment which in the sense of being able to participate in debate means the same thing. Yes this is a very powerful word with a very powerful message. And it is the correct message as far as I am concerned and when I can no longer express it here, I'm leaving since this place will have become no better than the other one.

I'm sure you chose your words very carefully and said what you did for impact. Nobody gets killed here and that's why I said what I did. I actually didn't even remember who said it, just that I thought it was over the top. Not an issue I would like to debate on this venue. In deference to the your contributions and the knowledge you impart I would rather see that in the rare moment than see this site lose what you have to offer. I hope you give Chris a fair chance and see what he did as his attempt to make things better even if you don't agree. Like I said earlier, and you said, it probably would have just died on it's own when those interested in it were ready to move on. Everyone else could ignore the thread. I wonder if those that complained are regular participants or like me just pop in once in awhile. If the complaints were from newcomers to the site maybe Chris felt compelled to show them that there will be some moderation in the hopes of having them return and contribute. Not saying right or wrong, just maybe a reason from Chris's perspective to intervene at least once. FYI...All I had to say was said on the forum and NOT in a private communication to Chris.