do you know tara labs (i need advice)

[nusiclover]

does tara labs make better speaker cable or interconnects??? after this question, what else would you recommend?
thanks for your posts.

[mtrycraft]

does tara labs make better speaker cable or interconnects??? after this question, what else would you recommend?
thanks for your posts.

They are both expensive, too expensive.

Speaker cable from Home Depot, 12ga about $.30/ft, or 12ga landscape wire for even less.
Radio Shack has interconnects, or WalMart, Target, your local electronics store, etc, even on line at partsexpress.com

[paul_pci]

does tara labs make better speaker cable or interconnects??? after this question, what else would you recommend?
thanks for your posts.

I have both Tara speaker cables (Omni) and audio interconnects and a couple of their component video cables. I'm not a Tara fanatic, my local dealer sells them and I think they make quality cables across the entire price spectrum. I like the Omni speaker cable ($1.50/ft), but the wire is really hard and pretty impossible to terminate. I like Tara because I feel that the company is unpretentious and they will not try to sell you a better cable than you need. If you flip through their product catalog they break down their product line from cables to replace "out of the box" cables all the way up to insanely expensive cables for super high end systems. A friend of mine bought a pair of Tara interconnects for only $20/m which is cheaper than most Monster cables, and she's happy with them.


P. S. Mtrycraft: You can buy a hamburger at McDonalds for real cheap. So what?

[mtrycraft]

I have both Tara speaker cables (Omni) and audio interconnects and a couple of their component video cables. I'm not a Tara fanatic, my local dealer sells them and I think they make quality cables across the entire price spectrum. I like the Omni speaker cable ($1.50/ft), but the wire is really hard and pretty impossible to terminate. I like Tara because I feel that the company is unpretentious and they will not try to sell you a better cable than you need. If you flip through their product catalog they break down their product line from cables to replace "out of the box" cables all the way up to insanely expensive cables for super high end systems. A friend of mine bought a pair of Tara interconnects for only $20/m which is cheaper than most Monster cables, and she's happy with them.


P. S. Mtrycraft: You can buy a hamburger at McDonalds for real cheap. So what?

Ah, but this isn't a hamburger, is it? I bet you could differentiate hamburger differences from different fast food chains, DBT. Consumers Reports tests them periodically. That is how they do it with expert tasters and tell differences under controlled conditions.
I have yet to see evidence for cable differences.
So, Tara labs just caters to the audiophiles gullibility, period. Not selling more of a cable than one needs is just marketing gimmick, slick.
There is no need for more than 1 cable, speaker interconnect, etc. Tara has a whole line. Hence, they are marketeers, selling what the market bears.

[nusiclover]

ok ok- wait a minute now!
are you saying that jps labs is nothing better than home depot?
are you saying that there are NO differences between different cable manufactures, so long as they are 10 gauge?!?!?
wow, if you are then thats saying a lot.

[paul_pci]

Of course hamburgers are not cables, but it was the only smart ass thing I could think of at the moment.

We're not going to change each other's minds about this, so the only response that I have is that calling Tara's wide ranging product line a marketing gimmick is more cynical than I'd like to get, and I love being cynical. I just can't imagine that Audioquest or Nordost or Cardas, etc. would ever make a conscientious move toward matching their product line with the varying quality of a consumers system. Perhaps I'm not getting enough oxygen on a regular basis ( I do live in LA after all), but I think Audioquest, for instance, would have no qualms selling their multi-thousand dollar speaker wire to anyone who steps up to the plate. I have spent a lot ot time on audio cable websites, and virtually no cable manufacturer, save Tara, organizes their product line to system needs. The only break down is price, leaving consumers either choosing by pretty cable colors, the techno cable mumbo jumbo, or what they are willing to throw down for a cable. The origianl poster of this thread inquired about Tara Labs and he could easily go through their product catalog and say, well my system isn't that high end, so I'll just buy this particular cable which won't be overkill for his particular system. Now, if said consumer were to turn to Audioquest, MIT, Cardas, there's no hope of sorting through the product line, save for a budget limit which may still produce overkill in the purchase.

What you call a gimmick I call a step in the right direction. I admit that I buy into a certain amount of the cable hype but there is a point where I abandon ship. Nevertheless, there's something about Tara Labs way about their business that I respect.

[mtrycraft]

ok ok- wait a minute now!
are you saying that jps labs is nothing better than home depot?
are you saying that there are NO differences between different cable manufactures, so long as they are 10 gauge?!?!?
wow, if you are then thats saying a lot.

Well, if the wire gauges are indeed equivalents, doesn't have to be the same gauge, 12 ga is equivalent to 14 or 16 ga, then there is no audible differences that anyone has yet been able to detect under bias controlled conditions. ]

But, if you have credible evidence that you can detect audible differences, please cite it, or anyone with this ability.
Yes, that is saying a lot, indeed. And, lots of $$$ has been offered in the past to anyone who could demonstrate such skills.

[mtrycraft]

We're not going to change each other's minds about this,

Well, I can based on credible evidence.


I admit that I buy into a certain amount of the cable hype

That explains a lot.

[/b] but there is a point where I abandon ship.[/b]


So, now we are quibbling about where?

Nevertheless, there's something about Tara Labs way about their business that I respect.

It is a business to sell, sell, and sell more, whatever it takes. They have a business marketing agenda a bit different form the others perhaps but it is there non the less. Otehrwise, they would be like Home Depot.

[paul_pci]

We're not going to change each other's minds about this,

Well, I can based on credible evidence.


I admit that I buy into a certain amount of the cable hype

That explains a lot.

[/b] but there is a point where I abandon ship.[/b]


So, now we are quibbling about where?


It is a business to sell, sell, and sell more, whatever it takes. They have a business marketing agenda a bit different form the others perhaps but it is there non the less. Otehrwise, they would be like Home Depot.

Just to clarify, I buy into the hype that say a consumer can buy a cable that is of greater quality than what was shipped in the box, and to some degree that there are noticeable differences between brands of certain cables. For instance, I plugged my RCA Direct TV reciever into my father's 60 in rear projection tv, in an effort to persaude him that he could get a better picture and digital sound with it. Now, my father doesn't know jack sh*t about cables, but when I went from the component video cable a friend picked up at a computer show for like $12 and the component cable I bought through LAT International, even he immediately noticed a difference. But this does not mean I'm going to go off the deep end and try to acquire "an even better" cable for $500 or more. And that's what I mean by abandoning ship. I accept that not all cables are created equal (for instance I bought speaker wire from Radio shack and it was so brittle that when I twisted the strands together, prepping the wire for insertion (man that sound so dirty) some of the strands kept breaking off), but I think spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on cables is insane.


Again, I think you're being too cynical about Tara Labs.

[mtrycraft]

Just to clarify, I buy into the hype that say a consumer can buy a cable that is of greater quality than what was shipped in the box,


Of course the consumer can That is why there is such a huge cable market out there.


and to some degree that there are noticeable differences between brands of certain cables.

Audible differences? There is no evidence to support this claim.

For instance, I plugged my RCA Direct TV reciever into my father's 60 in rear projection tv, in an effort to persaude him that he could get a better picture and digital sound with it. Now, my father doesn't know jack sh*t about cables, but when I went from the component video cable a friend picked up at a computer show for like $12 and the component cable I bought through LAT International, even he immediately noticed a difference.

Maybe yes, maybe no. I suppose human bias is disregarded somehow?

I accept that not all cables are created equal (for instance I bought speaker wire from Radio shack and it was so brittle that when I twisted the strands together, prepping the wire for insertion (man that sound so dirty) some of the strands kept breaking off),

That has no bearing how it will sound with music. If you prefer softer copper, that is a preference, right.

Again, I think you're being too cynical about Tara Labs.

They are just no different from any of the after market audio cable industry trying to lure in the customers. But, that is consumerism, isn't it?

[okiemax]

Well, if the wire gauges are indeed equivalents, doesn't have to be the same gauge, 12 ga is equivalent to 14 or 16 ga, then there is no audible differences that anyone has yet been able to detect under bias controlled conditions. ]

But, if you have credible evidence that you can detect audible differences, please cite it, or anyone with this ability.
Yes, that is saying a lot, indeed. And, lots of $$$ has been offered in the past to anyone who could demonstrate such skills.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think an offer means much unless it is presented in a way that makes it's acceptance a legally binding contract or agreement. It would be interesting to study the details of a documented offer to pay money to an individual who hears a difference between two cables in a scientific test. Can you post a copy of such an offer?

[mtrycraft]

An offer may not mean much unless it is in the form of a legally binding contract or agreement. It would be interesting to study the details of an offer to pay money to an individual who hears a difference between two cables in a scientific test. Can you post a copy of such an offer?

Nope. No legal document exists, just the honesty of th epeopl contributing to the fund, or the individual as I have read numerous offers over the years. The bassman rgreen here himself posted $1k bounty some time back at ar. That's the way it is.
But there is still no evidence for differences by anyone.

[paul_pci]

Just to clarify, I buy into the hype that say a consumer can buy a cable that is of greater quality than what was shipped in the box,


Of course the consumer can That is why there is such a huge cable market out there.


and to some degree that there are noticeable differences between brands of certain cables.

Audible differences? There is no evidence to support this claim.

For instance, I plugged my RCA Direct TV reciever into my father's 60 in rear projection tv, in an effort to persaude him that he could get a better picture and digital sound with it. Now, my father doesn't know jack sh*t about cables, but when I went from the component video cable a friend picked up at a computer show for like $12 and the component cable I bought through LAT International, even he immediately noticed a difference.

Maybe yes, maybe no. I suppose human bias is disregarded somehow?

I accept that not all cables are created equal (for instance I bought speaker wire from Radio shack and it was so brittle that when I twisted the strands together, prepping the wire for insertion (man that sound so dirty) some of the strands kept breaking off),

That has no bearing how it will sound with music. If you prefer softer copper, that is a preference, right.

Again, I think you're being too cynical about Tara Labs.

They are just no different from any of the after market audio cable industry trying to lure in the customers. But, that is consumerism, isn't it?

I'm not talking about soft copper, I'm talking about strands of copper that literally broke off during routine handling. I've had soft copper speaker wire, Monster, and hard wire, Tara, and middle of the road wire, Audioquest. I have no preference, per se, except that the freaking wire not break off. And I would think overly brittle wire would affect the signal carried thereon.

Fine it's consumerism You win.

[okiemax]

Nope. No legal document exists, just the honesty of th epeopl contributing to the fund, or the individual as I have read numerous offers over the years. The bassman rgreen here himself posted $1k bounty some time back at ar. That's the way it is.
But there is still no evidence for differences by anyone.

I thought this topic was too interesting to be buried here, so I started a new thread.

[nusiclover]

wow. is all i can say. i just wanted advice on tara labs, not start a mini war on speaker cables and consumerism!
but, for the sake of fueling this fire, i will have to present my personal recent experience (take it for what you will): i emailed tara labs and told them that i had $1400 speakers and a $1500 amp. i asked them to recommened me speaker cables and interconnects. their reply email "highly advised" me to get their interconnect that costs $350 and their speaker cables that run $120/foot. Id say this is interesting....to say the least.
on another note, mrtycraft, however well this experience may help in your statements, i would like to ask you this: have you, or have you not, ever done a test yourself with , oh say radio shack 14 gauge versus (you pick) 14 gauge? if you have, can you really say you heard No difference at all?
i am not certain on speaker wire, but i know for a fact (source: my very own eyes) that video cables DO make a huge difference between, say what you can get at best buy versus what you can get at a high end a/v store.
trust me, id really like to believe that what i can get at home depot and what i can get at a high end store makes no difference at all. Hey, just like the next man i love to save $$$. however, and maybe this is me buying into marketing and hear-say, i think that there would be a notable difference.

[paul_pci]

wow. is all i can say. i just wanted advice on tara labs, not start a mini war on speaker cables and consumerism!
but, for the sake of fueling this fire, i will have to present my personal recent experience (take it for what you will): i emailed tara labs and told them that i had $1400 speakers and a $1500 amp. i asked them to recommened me speaker cables and interconnects. their reply email "highly advised" me to get their interconnect that costs $350 and their speaker cables that run $120/foot. Id say this is interesting....to say the least.
on another note, mrtycraft, however well this experience may help in your statements, i would like to ask you this: have you, or have you not, ever done a test yourself with , oh say radio shack 14 gauge versus (you pick) 14 gauge? if you have, can you really say you heard No difference at all?
i am not certain on speaker wire, but i know for a fact (source: my very own eyes) that video cables DO make a huge difference between, say what you can get at best buy versus what you can get at a high end a/v store.
trust me, id really like to believe that what i can get at home depot and what i can get at a high end store makes no difference at all. Hey, just like the next man i love to save $$$. however, and maybe this is me buying into marketing and hear-say, i think that there would be a notable difference.

This may sound a bit inconsisten from what I've been saying, but the last person I might trust with purchase recommendations would be the manufacturer him/herself. Do you have a local dealer you trust is not interested in parting a fool from his money? At least get a second opinion. Or consdier this: get some Tara Omni ($1.50/foot when I bought it) for your two front speakers and test it out for a couple weeks and see what you think.

… let the war rage on.

[mtrycraft]

I'm not talking about soft copper, I'm talking about strands of copper that literally broke off during routine handling. I've had soft copper speaker wire, Monster, and hard wire, Tara, and middle of the road wire, Audioquest. I have no preference, per se, except that the freaking wire not break off. And I would think overly brittle wire would affect the signal carried thereon.

Fine it's consumerism You win.

Wire doesn't age in our lifetime. If it is brittle, that is a processing issue, not age.
Thin strands do break off rather easy.

[mtrycraft]

wow. is all i can say. i just wanted advice on tara labs, not start a mini war on speaker cables and consumerism!

You didn't. It is ongoing. You just posted a new message


i will have to present my personal recent experience (take it for what you will): i emailed tara labs and told them that i had $1400 speakers and a $1500 amp. i asked them to recommened me speaker cables and interconnects. their reply email "highly advised" me to get their interconnect that costs $350 and their speaker cables that run $120/foot. Id say this is interesting....to say the least.

Yes, that is interesting, especially since you didn't tell them which speakers or amp, right? Now if not, how would they come up with those recommendation without knowing anything about those two components?


on another note, mrtycraft, however well this experience may help in your statements, i would like to ask you this: have you, or have you not, ever done a test yourself with , oh say radio shack 14 gauge versus (you pick) 14 gauge? if you have, can you really say you heard No difference at all?

First, it is irrelevant what I tested or not unless I make testable claims for myself. Second, there is no reason for me to do this; there is no evidence that anyone is able to differentiate comparable cables.
Third, who would it convince if I did such a test and didn't hear a thing. I can hear it now: your system was not resolving, you cannot hear, etc


i am not certain on speaker wire, but i know for a fact (source: my very own eyes) that video cables DO make a huge difference between, say what you can get at best buy versus what you can get at a high end a/v store.

Well, for what it's worth, there is an audio club in mid US, where a member did a blind DBT test with a video cable and a very long extension cable, yes, 120V type, with nothing.


trust me, id really like to believe that what i can get at home depot and what i can get at a high end store makes no difference at all. Hey, just like the next man i love to save $$$. however, and maybe this is me buying into marketing and hear-say, i think that there would be a notable difference.

Yep, you are bying into it, your subconscious bias is. You need to try some DBT comparisons.

[nusiclover]

ok, heres my test:
i simply connected best buy(audio research) components from dvd to tv in video1.
i then connected a tara labs s-video from dvd to tv in video4.
this was all done to the same toshiba tv the exact same time.
now, if information serves correctly, most would agree component video cables will render higher resolution and better color saturation? right?
so, i played a dvd. and on colorful frames i paused. then proceeded to switch between video1 and video4. and guess what?
right there, before my own eyes i clearly saw a difference in the color and saturation. at first i was unsure which cables corresponded with wich source. better unbiased example i cannot think of. then when i peaked behind the tv and found that component corresponded wih video1 and s-video with video4 it actually didnt surprise me that video4 was indeed the feed with better color saturation and better color richness. i then proceeded to change tint, color, sharpness, and contrast .i continued to change all the levels back and forth whilst changing back and forth from v1 and v4. and you know what? every level i tried proved that v4 was the better of the two.
this brought me to conclude that a better s-video cable will provide better color and saturation then cheaper component cables.
if this is not a 99% conclusive test, then maybe my eyes are backwards.

[nusiclover]

btw, i read some good articles today that made much sence.
it stated that whilst $10/foot 14gauge cable will not sound any better/different than $0.30/foot 14 ga, the difference is that the $10 cable will last longer without having the copper wires turn green (i guess a pretty commnon experience with home depot speaker cable).
so, i concluded that you can either, (a) get $10 cables now and for ever, or, (b) get $0.30 cables and change them every year or so.
what are your opinions on this?

[paul_pci]

btw, i read some good articles today that made much sence.
it stated that whilst $10/foot 14gauge cable will not sound any better/different than $0.30/foot 14 ga, the difference is that the $10 cable will last longer without having the copper wires turn green (i guess a pretty commnon experience with home depot speaker cable).
so, i concluded that you can either, (a) get $10 cables now and for ever, or, (b) get $0.30 cables and change them every year or so.
what are your opinions on this?

In regard to this question, it's not opinions that matter but one's behavior. If you're one to buy a new toaster every year regardless of whether you need a new one or not, then that's what you are going to do. I would say buy inexpensive wire if you're one to change it out fairly frequently. No sense in flushing good money on expensive wire you'll be changing out down the road.

[paul_pci]

ok, heres my test:
i simply connected best buy(audio research) components from dvd to tv in video1.
i then connected a tara labs s-video from dvd to tv in video4.
this was all done to the same toshiba tv the exact same time.
now, if information serves correctly, most would agree component video cables will render higher resolution and better color saturation? right?
so, i played a dvd. and on colorful frames i paused. then proceeded to switch between video1 and video4. and guess what?
right there, before my own eyes i clearly saw a difference in the color and saturation. at first i was unsure which cables corresponded with wich source. better unbiased example i cannot think of. then when i peaked behind the tv and found that component corresponded wih video1 and s-video with video4 it actually didnt surprise me that video4 was indeed the feed with better color saturation and better color richness. i then proceeded to change tint, color, sharpness, and contrast .i continued to change all the levels back and forth whilst changing back and forth from v1 and v4. and you know what? every level i tried proved that v4 was the better of the two.
this brought me to conclude that a better s-video cable will provide better color and saturation then cheaper component cables.
if this is not a 99% conclusive test, then maybe my eyes are backwards.

I did a similar test, although not blind at all. [Please mtrycraft, no need to bang your head against the wall] I had gotten a new RCA DirectTv receiver that had a component out and I had been using an S-video connection previously. I plugged both cables into the new satellite receiver and went to work switching back and forth on the TV input buttons. Surprisingly it wasn't the color or the definition that stood out in the difference, but the brightness and contrast. The component video cable had a better handling on the lighting and contrast then did the S-video, although I had expected the component video to have the clear advantage over coloring.

I would also ask if your Toshiba is a pretty sophisticated tv. I've read that some tvs will offer a component video input but down convert the signal to S-video. Can't vouch for how true that is, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[mtrycraft]

btw, i read some good articles today that made much sence.
it stated that whilst $10/foot 14gauge cable will not sound any better/different than $0.30/foot 14 ga, the difference is that the $10 cable will last longer without having the copper wires turn green (i guess a pretty commnon experience with home depot speaker cable).
so, i concluded that you can either, (a) get $10 cables now and for ever, or, (b) get $0.30 cables and change them every year or so.
what are your opinions on this?

You can but an awful lot of $.30 cable before equaling $10, like 30 times?

But that green is not an issue unless it is at the connector and under it. Soldering it will take care of it. The current is in the cable. Not to worry, yet another audio myth.

As to your test, your TV may or may not be p[roperly alighed in each mode, component, composite and S video. Yes, they are not equal from the factory or by aligning it only in one input mode. That would explain the differences not the cable.

[mtrycraft]

I did a similar test, although not blind at all. [Please mtrycraft, no need to bang your head against the wall] I had gotten a new RCA DirectTv receiver that had a component out and I had been using an S-video connection previously. I plugged both cables into the new satellite receiver and went to work switching back and forth on the TV input buttons. Surprisingly it wasn't the color or the definition that stood out in the difference, but the brightness and contrast. The component video cable had a better handling on the lighting and contrast then did the S-video, although I had expected the component video to have the clear advantage over coloring.

I would also ask if your Toshiba is a pretty sophisticated tv. I've read that some tvs will offer a component video input but down convert the signal to S-video. Can't vouch for how true that is, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

You need to do more evaluation. How do you know the TV box is of equal output quality in Svideo and component? How do you know your TV is calibrated in each mode as it has to be done in each video mode, component, Svideo composite. Talk to Joe Kane, video expert, Imaging foundation(google search)

[paul_pci]

You need to do more evaluation. How do you know the TV box is of equal output quality in Svideo and component? How do you know your TV is calibrated in each mode as it has to be done in each video mode, component, Svideo composite. Talk to Joe Kane, video expert, Imaging foundation(google search)

I've done no more tweaking than through the tv's menu. I hope to do a more masterful job when I get a test disc. All in all, the tv isn't special enough to get down and dirty about the calibration.