Golden Ears Fail Again

[RGA]

Your post is really good, and a flashback to some Psych courses in my University days...the only problem I have with this argument is that the brain is also under similar distresses when doing "sighted tests" in the comfort of your own home when undertaking any test of a sensory nature...not to mention the impact mood, fatigue, etc have on your senses and perception. There exists the fact that much of this mental behaviour the brain undertakes is a constant in blind and sighted testings, and therefore can be discarded as irrelevant to the results.

But your arguments of "what is truth" hold. I think it's safe to say that we are not necessarily testing just for truth in DBT's though...and that we can learn more than "truth" from the results. We are also testing the consistency in observations...if we don't even have that consistency (as DBT's immaculately suggest), we can't begin to use logic, science, philosophy, or even testament to speculate what a truth might be about a cable, CD player, or anything else...if nothing else, this raises considerable doubt about claims of sonic differences, and sways the debate in that direction.
This puts the onus on the manufacturers ( a cop out argument too often, but in this case relevant I think) to provide us with some sort of argument to support their claims. What research do they have? Do they have consistent results? If not should we buy something that might work some of time?

I suspect (but can't prove) that cables do in fact contribute at least something to the sound quality...it may not be detectable by the human ear, or possible to prove, but it would be premature to write-off a possibility simply because the testing methods to date haven't confirmed this. But until something comes along to end the debate definitively I'll continue to invest money into more tangible and cost-effective methods of improving my system.

OT: How do legally blind people fair in these DBT's??

Kex you forget though that when sighted you are not in a test environment - there is a fundamental shift when we put the testing hat on as to when we are simply listening to two sets of amps and or speakers etc. BTW I'm not supporting the existance of differences either - this is a common attack I get from DBT supporters. I am not saying DBT's are useless or that they should not be used or thatI'm going to buy every sighted audition because it is obvious that there exists a sight bias - but to think DBT's are the sole answer is a HUGE error - and in some ways has it's own ADDED problems that sighted listening does no have which is a testing environment. (In several fields tests can get people to do things they NEER would normally do which 1st year psych courses also show when situational variables are brought in. There are expectations biases in blind tests - "You will be given two sets of cd players to listen to chose either A or B to select which is best" if you play the EXACT same cd player and selection of song the person WILL make a selection - we are creatures of solving problems - even when they do not exist - just as one forms an image when stairing at clouds or attempting to solve optical illusions. Hearing is no different. Amazingly this kind of "trick" is used by some to support DBTs that we can't tell the difference.

The simple truth is that anything can be deliberately made to sound different - it is A) in the best interest of the manufacturer to do this B) not difficult.
There was a tst several years back where a cheapie Pioneer receiver was indistinguishable from very expensive separates. Pioneer, if DBT's were worth anything in this industry, could have come out with HUGE ad campaigns on the back ogf that test and said:

"Here at Pioneer we have a rvolutionary amplifier that for a mere $199.00 sounds in scientific testing no different than the best separates in the world - yes that is right we have a revolutionary amplifier and managed to do what Bryston and Krell err Tanberg do but at 5 figure prices. Plus you get a tuner and surround sound in our unit PLUS remote control. All you need is a speaker that doesn;t dip under 3 ohms and is 87db or better and there is no difference."

Of course Pioneer would not do this - not because they hoped to sell their expensive stuff - they had none - and this kind of advertising would have been bigger gold - the reason is that the so called tests would never stand up to real scrutiny because a DBT cannot EVER prove that componant A sounds the same as componant B. What people can do well that is something else - and too many variables to get at real truth - just some statistical evidence of low trial numbers in a testing environment and nothing at all like a normal listening sessions. It don't take a degree in psych or anyhting else to see the problems here.

Now if one wants to make the case that a DBT is BETTER than a sighted test - well now that is something else and I don't have any problem in the world if someone wants to make that case - becuase there is good reason to make the case - just don't blindly(as it were) ignore the problems with that which you support.

[kexodusc]

RGA, I guess I didn't make myself a bit more clear...I agree with just about everything you say with the exception of what you qualify as a test. Quite simply ANY time you compare items you are testing...formally or informally, the brain undertakes similar functions, if not the exact same...there are added stresses, processes, etc, in a DBT to be sure, I'm just holding the position that so much of this becomes a constant between home evaluation (where the original claim of differences is made) and a DBT (where prove is sought)...the rest becomes extremeties. In a small sample, sure they could be significant, but over the huge sample of DBT's over the last 30 years, you have to wonder WHY this small difference in environment absolutely always skews results...this is where consistency becomes important.
I can safely say that even if cables DO make a difference, it is small, subtle, and incredibly inconsistent on WHEN it is heard at best.
That hasn't stopped me from buying better electronics yet...but I tend to look for more "middle-of-the-road" stuff than Cadillac gear.

That being said, DBT's to verify results based on the 2nd sloppiest of human senses, are not the answer by themselves.