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  1. #1
    Forum Regular 46minaudio's Avatar
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    Ascendant Audio selling off XBL2 drivers

    http://www.ascendantaudio.com/
    I bought 4...Atlas 15s

  2. #2
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    They're pretty ticked off at Wiggins and Adire right now..Can't say I blame them...pretty dumb busines move by Mr. Wiggins...I'm sure he didn't mean to offend, but clearly he got carried away.
    Snarf these up while you can, a price like that won't last forever!!!

  3. #3
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    They're pretty ticked off at Wiggins and Adire right now..Can't say I blame them...pretty dumb busines move by Mr. Wiggins...I'm sure he didn't mean to offend, but clearly he got carried away.
    Snarf these up while you can, a price like that won't last forever!!!

    This is Dan Wiggins' rebuttal to Ascendant's move. Apparently, Ascendant was not a XBL^2 licensee, -- their outsource manufacturer was the licensee. Wiggins speculates that Ascendant had already planned to shift their outsourcing, and was looking for an excuse to go public with a different vendor. Anyway, read for yourself...

    To all,

    As many of you know, Ascendant Audio, which uses our XBLČ technology, took a post I made as an offense and are now claiming to stop using our technology. The offensive statement was:

    "You even presume that other XBLČ drivers are equivalent to ours... Ever done some objective measurements to back that up? I have, and many OEMs have, and I can tell you that just because it says XBLČ does not mean it's equal to all other XBLČ drivers..."

    However, the quote was taken out of context. This part of a post (less than 10% of the entire post) was in relation to questions about our upcoming product line, and many "enthusiasts" claiming that our soon-to-be-released new product was a step backwards and not as good as other offerings on the market. Note that claims were made about our product which has not even been released!

    Perhaps some background is in order...

    Along with this flare-up many have inferred that somehow Ascendant Audio and Adire Audio were partners. There is nothing to that. In fact, the sum total of all the interaction of the two companies has been 3 e-mails outlining the legalities related to using trademarked terms. There was no agreement, license, NDA, paperwork, letter of intent, phone calls, or any other comments, information exchange, or relationship between the two companies. Just clarification about use of trademarked terms.

    The sole "connection" between the two companies was that Ascendant Audio used a build house that is a licensed builder of XBLČ. That is the total technological/business relationship between Adire and Ascendant. The build house has a fixed royalty rate they must pay us for all licensed product; what they choose to charge customers is up to them. And note that we do not even receive direct royalties from their customers - in this case, Ascendant Audio. Nor do we even know what royalties Ascendant pays per driver. It is like a typical reseller - we have a fixed price, and whatever the licensee can get is up to them.

    We also did not provide any design, development or any technological assistance to Ascendant Audio, as we weren't even aware of their use of our technology until Ascendant's website went public in late December, 2004. Their products were developed entirely on their own, without our assistance or tools.

    Now that the full "business" relationship is revealed, we can discuss the original offending statement. Apparently comparisons can be made by many about product that is not even released. Comparisons based strictly on 2-3 posts with general T/S information only. In this context, making a comparison - without having ANY hard data - is poor. Several claimed that driver X from company Y was clearly superior. Or driver A from company B. And so on. All claimed in a vacuum.

    It should not be a stretch to understand that not all drivers are equal; not all underhungs are equal, nor are all overhungs. Why should all XBLČ drivers be equal? If all are equal, then why buy anything more than a $9.99 EBay special?

    And along with that would it not be logical to consider that the newest products hitting the market would have the best chance of being the best performing, since all "competition" is known? Much like in any single-player, sequential competition (such as golf). If you know what your main competition has shot, then you know what you must beat. The bar is set.

    However, that apparently is considered an offense and attack; I would say that is the nature of business. To always see where your competition is at, and attempt to excel. Business is - by its very nature - competitive, and companies always strive to provide better products for consumers. By the very nature, comparisons will - and simply must be made.

    Furthermore, note that Ascendant is by no means the only offering of XBLČ drivers! There are many companies actively using this technology. Some publicly admit it - some do not. Only one appears to be upset. Ascendant was never mentioned in my post, or even the post I replied to. It was completely - and incorrectly - inferred.

    In fact, direct comparisons of Ascendant Audio and Adire Audio product have been made by Ascendant Audio employees, on their own forum, and the conclusion was that the Ascendant Audio product was superior! How is that less "offensive" from what I said? If anything, it is much more of a direct statement about "ours vs. theirs" than anything I posted. And it should not be a shock to anyone - what company does not believe they offer the best products for their customers?

    Overall, it appears that Ascendant wants to move in a new direction; all the best to them. And apparently they have a different technology they want to pursue. That is their prerogative. But I do not think this will be the end of it. Comparisons will always be made, and unless and until you have your own build capacity - and use it 100% strictly for your own product - you will always have a "common thread" back to another competitor.

    The switch also appears to have been in the works for quite a while, as in Ascendant's own posting they describe building products with the new motor, as well as with XBLČ. Furthermore replacement models will be apparently for sale in 1 to 2 months. As one who has been involved in manufacturing of loudspeakers over the last 10 years, I can say that unless replacements were already designed up, prototyped, and ready to go a 1 month turn is near impossible. Perhaps this was a planned move for some time, and the offending post was used as a "reason" to launch the change.

    So for those looking at the latest Internet soap opera, I say sit back, take a deep breath, and think it through before you jump to conclusions. Bandwagons are dangerous things - they can be fun with everyone on board, but when the wheels fall off, everyone crashes.

    Dan Wiggins
    Adire Audio

  4. #4
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Yeah I saw that too...there's lots of heresay right now...don't know what to believe, don't care.
    Wiggins might have stabbed himself in the foot selling licensed technology, and Ascendant is claiming they've paid Adire directly. Then again he might be telling the truth and could be the victim here.

    Worst part is XBL is far from the end all be all technology in subwoofers. You'd think they were talking about the Fountain of Youth or something.

    And Dan's right...a one month turnover from concept to production is either very poorly researched and tested business decision done in haste, or was a calculated decision on the part of Ascendant.
    I'm leaning towards the latter.

    Boys will be boys I guess...in the meantime, a spirited competition is just what we need.
    Let the games begin...

  5. #5
    Forum Regular 46minaudio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Yeah I saw that too...there's lots of heresay right now...don't know what to believe, don't care.
    Wiggins might have stabbed himself in the foot selling licensed technology, and Ascendant is claiming they've paid Adire directly. Then again he might be telling the truth and could be the victim here.

    Worst part is XBL is far from the end all be all technology in subwoofers. You'd think they were talking about the Fountain of Youth or something.

    And Dan's right...a one month turnover from concept to production is either very poorly researched and tested business decision done in haste, or was a calculated decision on the part of Ascendant.
    I'm leaning towards the latter.

    Boys will be boys I guess...in the meantime, a spirited competition is just what we need.
    Let the games begin...
    Kex I talked to Chad yesterday.The new drivers look interesting.At $105 the atlas 15s were to good to pass up..I have 10 plate amps rated at 170 into a 4 ohms.I have about $25 in each amp.Could make a nice combo for $130..

  6. #6
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd say...throw them in a sealed cabinet in smaller rooms, or use 2 for larger rooms and you'd be set.
    Where did you scam 10 plate amps for $25 a piece? Someone fall behind on their gambling debts?

  7. #7
    Forum Regular 46minaudio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Yeah, I'd say...throw them in a sealed cabinet in smaller rooms, or use 2 for larger rooms and you'd be set.
    Where did you scam 10 plate amps for $25 a piece? Someone fall behind on their gambling debts?
    MCM had them.It was posted on the PE forum.Someone overthere tested them at 175 into 4 ohms..Ive seen them go off on ebay for 90 dollars or so..Ill shoot you a pm when I get time with other stuff..I can pretty much get you anything you need..

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