AR.com DIY cabinet dimensions...and a question/suggestion

[kexodusc]

I've had several fellow AR.com members e-mail in the past week about the cabinet dimensions for the EFE DIY speaker design found here.

Madisound apparently suggests the user can increase the volume of the speaker to approximately 20 L to improve the bass response. Being a newbie to speaker building, I was a little hesitant to endorse a "mod" to the DIY design, so I decided to e-mail Ed himself to see what he had to say...

Ed's response was:

"Yes, it is true that if you increase the cabinet volume the bass will
increase. But as the bass increases you also give up a little of the
midrange tightness and purity that the DIY has become famous for. There is a
give and take for everything you change in speaker designing!

Most (not all) guys use the DIY in a surround system, usually adding a
subwoofer, therefore there is no need to have the DIY's produce more bass,
the sub takes care of the lower frequencies leaving the DIY to produce a
very clean midrange. Even without a sub, if the proper amount of insulation
is installed as per the instructions, the bass is very good for a small
bookshelf speaker. I prefer the smaller cabinet, thus the reason why I chose
it over a larger one when first designed.

Every designer has a certain goal in mind when designing a speaker, some
want as much bass as possible. I wanted a small speaker that produced a
pure, natural, tight and clean midrange, that is where 75% of the music is
produced. Good speaker balancing is the difference between a so so speaker
and a great speaker, I think the DIY has proven to be the latter because of
the reasons mentioned."

This is probably a no brainer for experienced builders...just thought I'd share.

This led me to thinking, how would it be to get ar.com to put together an FAQ for this speaker design? Any chance at all this could happen? It might save aspiring speaker builders and Ed himself a bit of time...not to mention being a valuable resource. Maybe there could be a wiki or a link or something?
Just a humble suggestion...please don't flame me..

[Swerd]

This led me to thinking, how would it be to get ar.com to put together an FAQ for this speaker design?

It sounds to me like you're just the guy to put this FAQ together . Keep notes of your initial ideas, mistakes, and observations as you build them. You could enter it as a How-To Article.

On the other hand, do we really need a FAQ list? Ed Frias has always taken the time to answer all our questions. He is both helpful and gracious, and it is fun to hear back from him. From my own limited experience, I would also say that you should do exactly as Ed says. As his response to your 20 liter question indicates, he has already thought of that modification and ruled it out for good reasons.

My total experience with these speakers is that I built one pair of standard Ed Frias design AR.coms myself. They are in the L6 cabinets made by Speaker City, have the updated crossover that lack the BBC dip, and I now have added 2 ohms extra resistance to the tweeter.

I also "consulted" for a 19-year old son and one of his friends as they built their AR.coms. I use quotes around the word consult because they didn't listen to me. It seems they were expert Parts Express catalog readers and knew they could tweak and improve them. They managed to reprove the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". In an effort to get more bass, one made bigger cabinets (I don't know the volume), and the other substituted Peerless 8" drivers for the 6½" ones that Ed calls for and made a bigger cabinet. They don't sound bad, but they lost that pure, natural, tight & clean midrange that Ed described above.

Even though I think that Ed Frias's design is difficult to modify for the better, a FAQ list might encourage more people to try building these speakers for themselves. And that can't be bad.

Keep us up to date about your progress with your DIYs. I'm curious to know what you think of Wayne J's PeeCreeks.

[poneal]

It was a toss up for me between the PeeCreek and the AR.Com. I chose the AR.Com because of Ed's design and ease of access to him. I mean this guy has to get over 50 emails a day about this design and he answers them all. I'm also partial to the peerless sound and wanted to keep an all peeless design. The U-Pee (MorePee?) uses the much more expensive usher tweeter and that increases the toal cost of a 5 speaker system dramatically.

One thing I have learned. 45 degree edges are a bear to put together and even harder to get squared. Unless your a learned carpenter/woodworker do not use them unless you get someone to cut them for you that knows what they're doing. I am able to salvage all but the back of mine due to them not squaring up properly. So the lesson learned is for simplicity, use the butt joint.

Ed has also recommended that you flush mount the AR.Com so don't cheap out and baffle mount them. If you don't have a router rent one. Plus the flushing makes the speaker look professional.

Another lesson learned. Use scape wood/mdf to do the inital routing/flushing to make sure the measurements are correct before you route the real piece.

By the way, my wife loves the size of these boxes. It definitely has WAF (wife acceptance factor). They are kinda sexy looking if you ask me. Just the right size.

Well, there's my two cents....

[kexodusc]

Poneal: Do you recall the cuts and measurements you made to make the cabinets? Ed sent me the cabinet exterior dimensions, but I wasn't sure which size to make each side.

The way I did it was to surround the cabinet back with the top, bottom and sides and then have the front overlap those same pieces. I'm not sure if this is the "best" way, or if it even matter, but a book I have suggested it for another design...that way if you don't veneer the joint lines aren't terribly visible. Seemed to make sense.

Just curious if there's a better method, and if so, what makes it better? I did use the butt joint, though I was going to try a rabbet...someone talked me out of that and just suggested to use screws every 4 or 5 inches or so.

I can see the veneering being a bit troublesome...we'll see though. Could be awhile before I have a weekend at home again...

[EFE Speakers]

Hello guys,
Below are the specifications for the DIY cabinets including the inside dimensions as per original Speaker City cabinets. Thanks!

Ed Frias

DIY Cabinet specs

Outside dimensions are
13" high x 8 3/4" wide x 9 1/4" deep

Inside dimensions are
11 ½� high x 7 3/8� wide x 7 ¾ deep

Port size is 2" Dia. (ID) x 6" deep from rear surface.
Rear Port hole is centered (widthwise) and 3" from top to center of port.

Speaker input terminal hole is 1 15/16" Dia. It is countersunk 3/16" deep x 3" Dia. This can be changed if you desire another type or size speaker terminal. Rear Speaker terminal hole is centered (widthwise) and 3" from bottom to center of hole.

Front Tweeter hole is 3 5/16" in diameter. Front tweeter hole is also centered widthwise and also 3" from top of cabinet to center of hole. If you opt to countersink the tweeter, cut 1/8" deep x 4 1/8" Dia.

Front woofer hole is 5 5/8" Dia. If you opt to countersink, use 3/16" deep x 6 15/16" Dia.
Front woofer is centered 4 1/4" from bottom of cabinet.
Success to all!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

[EFE Speakers]

Don't know why the garbage was included with the inside dimensions, but I'll try again!


Inside dimensions:

11 1/2 high x 7 3/8 wide x 7 3/4 deep

[Drop Drive]

(Please bear with me as I know little about speakers and even less about woodworking.)

Outside dimensions are 13" high x 8 3/4" wide x 9 1/4" deep
Inside dimensions are 11 1/2 high x 7 3/8 wide x 7 3/4 deep

I gather that these plans call for 3/4" thick material such as MDF for all six sides? If so, isn't one of the width measurements off by 1/8"? Which one is correct? (This is nitpicky, but if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it exactly right.)

Port size is 2" Dia. (ID) x 6" deep from rear surface.
Rear Port hole is centered (widthwise) and 3" from top to center of port.

I don't understand this bit. What is a port? What is "(ID)"? How can something be 6" deep from the (inner? outer?) rear surface--won't it be right in the inner cavity? And is a "rear port hole" simply---from a woodworking perspective, anyway---a hole in the rear panel?

Speaker input terminal hole is 1 15/16" Dia. It is countersunk 3/16" deep x 3" Dia.

A Google search tells me that countersinking is like making a "starter hole" for screws, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Should I just think of it as a cylindrical hole that doesn't go all the way through? I suppose then that the countersink "hole" should be on the outside?

Seems like one can choose to countersink the tweeter and woofer holes. Will these again be from the outside? Are there any advantages or disadvantages apart from aesthetic ones?

poneal, do you find Titebond glue alone strong enough, or did you use L-shaped brackets on the inside too?

And thanks to Jim Clark for pointing the AR.com DIYs out to me.

Peter

[Drop Drive]

Front Tweeter hole is 3 5/16" in diameter.
If you opt to countersink the tweeter, cut 1/8" deep x 4 1/8" Dia.

The magnet diameter of the PEERLESS 812687 1" DOME TWEETER is 72mm (scroll down a bit), which is roughly 2 7/8", so why is the hole diameter 3 5/16"? Am I missing something? (The countersink diameter of 4 1/8" is the same as the "overall diameter" given on the Parts Express page (first link above).)

Front tweeter hole is also centered widthwise and also 3" from top of cabinet to center of hole.
Front woofer is centered 4 1/4" from bottom of cabinet.

Are these measurements from the exterior or the interior? Is the distance between the centers precisely 13 - 3 - 4 1/4 = 5 3/4"?

Three more questions: (1) Is there any value in making the front panel (the baffle?) out of HDF, or 1" MDF, or even 1" HDF? (2) Is the front panel supposed to be detachable? Or does one work though the speaker holes, in construction and repair? (3) Would not having a grill degrade sound quality?

Many thanks. I'd be happy to write up people's answers should an FAQ ever get started. ---Peter

[bcass]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but it looked as good as any. :-)

I am looking for the L-6 speaker cabinets at SoundCity.com and I can't find them. Are they still sold there? Are there any other sources for cabinets of the proper dimensions? I am almost tempted to build my own, since I can work OK with wood/MDF, but if I can get premade cabinets with nice veneer, grill and holes cut for reasonably more than the parts, I'd do it.

Thanks!
Bryan

[kexodusc]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but it looked as good as any. :-)

I am looking for the L-6 speaker cabinets at SoundCity.com and I can't find them. Are they still sold there? Are there any other sources for cabinets of the proper dimensions? I am almost tempted to build my own, since I can work OK with wood/MDF, but if I can get premade cabinets with nice veneer, grill and holes cut for reasonably more than the parts, I'd do it.

Thanks!
Bryan

I think you should try looking at speakercity.com, not soundcity.com.
If that doesn't work Madisound sells pre-fab cabinets as well.

Build your own...way more fun, and cheaper.

[bcass]

I think you should try looking at speakercity.com, not soundcity.com.
If that doesn't work Madisound sells pre-fab cabinets as well.

Build your own...way more fun, and cheaper.

Sorry, I meant SpeakerCity.com. Are the cabinets at Madisound the same size that Ed recommends?

Building my own... I'm sure I could get them put together, but I'm wondering if they'd look like I made them or not. ;-) I like the looks of the ones in the instructions on this site. But is there a materials list and cutting diagram for DIY cabinets of the same dimensions?

Thank you!
Bryan

[EFE Speakers]

Bryan,
The Speakercity cabinets are like the ones in the original posting, the new Madisound cabinets are the same volume but come with rounded corners rather than square. They both come with real wood veneer, driver and input terminal holes and finished grills. You'll have to drill all the holes for the screws. E-mail me for the right type and amount of insulation to install. Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

[bcass]

Bryan,
The Speakercity cabinets are like the ones in the original posting, the new Madisound cabinets are the same volume but come with rounded corners rather than square. They both come with real wood veneer, driver and input terminal holes and finished grills. You'll have to drill all the holes for the screws. E-mail me for the right type and amount of insulation to install. Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

Thanks, Ed. But my question was... where are the L-6 speaker cabinets on the SpeakerCity site? I can't find them in their catalog. I was just wondering if there are other internet sites besides them and Madisound that sell a cabinet of the same exact dimensions that I could look at. I can stain and finish a veneered cabinet, or even apply veneer to a MDF box. I was just leery of putting the box together solidly and making the cutouts and port tube the right size, since that is so critical.

What model number are the equivalent Madisound cabinets?

Thank you!
Bryan