Vintage and Rosy: The Ariston RD 11S

[poppachubby]

Here's a good question. Should I offer this table extra isolation? Of course it never hurts, but do you guys think it's necessary? I'll have to try a week with and a week without.

[frenchmon]

I would build one anyway....it cant hurt and in my opinion a nice TT looks good sitting on some kind of table made for it.

[hifitommy]

one of the great things about arms with a detachable headshell is the ease with which one can swap carts. all you need to do is realign the BP on the ariston. dont be surprised if the AT is hard to beat with the BP. as i have said before, the BP has limitations.

i would act on the digital scale frenchy is mentioning. once you use it, it will be like pulling teeth to get you to use a shure gauge.

DD tables can be very good such as the goldmund or rockport sirius (seriously?). usually though, belt drives outperform DDs sonically for much less money. dont get me wrong, i have a ken wood kd500/grace 707 and enjoy it for its ease of use.

as for a bubble level---i say get a good torpedo style and set balance in first left to right and then front to back and youre done. the round levels are frustrating.

a tonearm cable should be as short as possible to keep from adding capacitance into the equation unnecessarily.

unless you have wooden floors (likely in canada where a basement is fairly standard) where footfalls cause a disruption in stability, additional isolation may not be necessary. a wall mounted tt shelf is one of the best for that application. here in so-cal, most of us have cement slab floors which mostly obviate that problem.

the arm i would look for would have either detachable headshells or changeable arm wands unless staying with the same cartridge all the time is OK with you. it isnt for me.

[poppachubby]

Thanks for the input guys. First thing I will do is level the platter/plinth. I have DL'd a manual to familiarize myself before working. I think I'll book some time this Thurs./Fri. as my wife and kids are out of the house. I'll probably swap out the power cable while I'm at it.

I will have to get a digital scale. It was also suggested to me to get a lighter counterweight. We'll see.

Much more maintenance involved with a proper deck.

Tommy I don't know if I could live with just one cart either. However, I definitely want a better arm down the road. Which arms would you suggest that have a headshell? I will consider them with my research.

Aside from the ProJect, I like the Rega RB 250/300, Sumiko MMT and SME 3009.

[hifitommy]

http://www.sme.ltd.uk/content/Series-300-1332.shtml

http://www.sme.ltd.uk/content/Series-M2-1331.shtml

above are two arms by SME, not cheap. both have removable headshells not of the universal type and sure to cost at least $100 each for the shells alone.

http://cgis.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/src...g=jelco+&B1=go

above is the search of jelco in a'gon.

and one on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jelco-SA-370H-To...efaultDomain_0

those arms are more affordable and take universal shells for which the sumiko hs12 (made by jelco) is a natural, and one of the best headshells out there.

there are some wooden ortofon headshells available and the orsonics which are spectacular to look at and highly sought after.

graham arms take a removable wand and the arm is like $4k, wands $2-4 (i think).

the expensive dynavector arm takes a universal shell.

for fixed headshell arms, i would try to get one thats easily removable from the tt which means it shouldnt nave a captive wire like the regas. grace arms like the 707 are like that. then the arm can be removed for cartridge swapping. its one of the things i love about MY 707. i just turn it over and prop it with some heavy items (cans fo food work well) so the cart can be mounted conveniently.

[poppachubby]

Cool, thanks Tommy I'll check all of that out.

BTW, the cart that came with the deck is an AT VM8-HII. From the quality of the sound, I am guessing it has the shibata in it.

Any experience with this cart? It sounds glorious.

[poppachubby]

OK not a bad start. I replaced the power cable with a low noise, 14 awg AR cable.






I cleaned the DIN connection...





...and most importantly got the platter levelled. Well, sort of...






...it's far from perfect but improved. I can't believe what a joke the bottom cover is. Must have blown the budget at this point...

[JohnMichael]

The Funk Firm in England does some great mods for the Linn and I thought some might fit your table. Maybe even give that fertile imagination of yours some good ideas.

http://www.thefunkfirm.co.uk/turntab...2_Upgrade.html

[hifitommy]

about the AT VM8-HII cart pop, at made so many that it isnt even in the VE database.

rather than going with the BP or the unknown AT, i might look at comet supply:

http://www.cometsupply.com/?mn=DENON

for some reasonably priced denon MCs.

[E-Stat]

OK not a bad start. I replaced the power cable with a low noise, 14 awg AR cable...I cleaned the DIN connection...and most importantly got the platter levelled. Well, sort of...

The force is with you! Leveling is not an intuitive process with the three controls. Remember to level the plinth first (mine required shims at the rear), then level the platter and check at different points along the outside of it. You want some spring, but not so floaty that the motor rubs the sub-platter. From the side, the line of the platter should be parallel to the plinth. You might also want to clean the belt with WindX where most likely the cloth will be blackened. Then put a light coat of talc powder on it. For cosmetics, you might want to get some metal polish for the platter to get it shining again.

Yeah, the bottom is a joke. I removed mine when I still had big hair.

rw

[poppachubby]

The force is with you! Leveling is not an intuitive process with the three controls. Remember to level the plinth first (mine required shims at the rear), then level the platter and check at different points along the outside of it. You want some spring, but not so floaty that the motor rubs the sub-platter. From the side, the line of the platter should be parallel to the plinth. You might also want to clean the belt with WindX where most likely the cloth will be blackened. Then put a light coat of talc powder on it. For cosmetics, you might want to get some metal polish for the platter to get it shining again.

Yeah, the bottom is a joke. I removed mine when I still had big hair.

rw

The real issue I am finding is getting it to bounce straight up and down. When you confirm the bounce, where do you push it Ralph? It would seem pushing it at one end is not going to allow it to go up and down. I was using the spot in between the mount and the platter.

Anyhow, cumbersome is an understatement. I was chatting with an English fellow at AK who said he wasn't satisfied for a year! I hope I can nail it before that.

BTW, I am not kidding, the power cable made a difference. I have been using my Robbie Robertson LP through this whole process. Indeed more info is audible in the opening of "Fallen Angel". I also found that I could turn down the volume a bit and still get alot of clarity coming through.

[E-Stat]

The real issue I am finding is getting it to bounce straight up and down.

When you think about it, the platter can never really bounce directly up and down. Since the arm board is part of the suspended structure and weighs less, there will always be a bit of lateral motion. My objective is to make it float just above the "scrape" setting where there is some rebound settling time.

When you confirm the bounce, where do you push it Ralph? It would seem pushing it at one end is not going to allow it to go up and down. I was using the spot in between the mount and the platter.

In a short 2.5 mb video, I'll try both at the spindle and out further on the platter. Towards the end, I press it a touch too much and you'll hear the scrape. But it is level in all planes and allows for free movement. This might help give you an idea. Unfortunately, lighting is not exactly great in the garage closet!

I hope I can nail it before that.

You will. While I don't suggest my approach is the best, I set the springs at full soft where the platter would drag the motor. Then raise enough for consistent clearance and balance.

BTW, I am not kidding, the power cable made a difference. I have been using my Robbie Robertson LP through this whole process. Indeed more info is audible in the opening of "Fallen Angel".

I discovered the same when I started experimenting with aftermarket cords about ten years ago. Indeed the difference lies with lowering the noise floor which is evident only during soft passages. I run the table through a power conditioner as well.

I also found that I could turn down the volume a bit and still get alot of clarity coming through.

You have discovered what I consider to be the hallmark of a high resolution system. As mine have gotten better, I find that lower levels can provide as satisfying an experience when I'm not in a rowdy "gotta crank it" mood. Even when played measurably loud, they should never "sound" loud - if that makes any sense.

rw

[poppachubby]

When you think about it, the platter can never really bounce directly up and down. Since the arm board is part of the suspended structure and weighs less, there will always be a bit of lateral motion. My objective is to make it float just above the "scrape" setting where there is some rebound settling time.


In a short 2.5 mb video, I'll try both at the spindle and out further on the platter. Towards the end, I press it a touch too much and you'll hear the scrape. But it is level in all planes and allows for free movement. This might help give you an idea. Unfortunately, lighting is not exactly great in the garage closet!


You will. While I don't suggest my approach is the best, I set the springs at full soft where the platter would drag the motor. Then raise enough for consistent clearance and balance.


I discovered the same when I started experimenting with aftermarket cords about ten years ago. Indeed the difference lies with lowering the noise floor which is evident only during soft passages. I run the table through a power conditioner as well.



You have discovered what I consider to be the hallmark of a high resolution system. As mine have gotten better, I find that lower levels can provide as satisfying an experience when I'm not in a rowdy "gotta crank it" mood. Even when played measurably loud, they should never "sound" loud - if that makes any sense.

rw

Thanks for the link Ralph, but I don't have Quicktime on my comp. I take it you use a Mac? I know you're a computer guy.

It's funny, all of my work has really culminated in the last month. I have taken the CDP out of the reference system, it's a fruitless endeavour until I upgrade.

That said, if you recall I have a dedicated circuit for my analog, and one for my digital. I am certainly reaping the benefits of that now.

Here's the thread from AK, have a read and tell me what you think. Your advice is a tad more practical I think... http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=316041

Anyhow, I will go back into the Ariston after the kids are in bed, and tweak again.

Oh and one more thing, the new plug I put in is polarized, what does this mean for wiring inside the Ariston? I have the black lead in the hole which shares another, the white lead in the last hole, at the end of the row. I think I am getting some hum, ground issue. Can this be fixed by reversing the leads?

[E-Stat]

Thanks for the link Ralph, but I don't have Quicktime on my comp. I take it you use a Mac? I know you're a computer guy.

No, I use Win7. While my camera captured the video in an .avi format, it was triple the size of an .mp4. I use a free app called "Handbrake" which performs the conversion and allows for creating videos for my iPhone. My Windows Media player works with the .mp4 format as well. Maybe you just need to update your version. I really don't like the QT player.

Here's the thread from AK, have a read and tell me what you think. Your advice is a tad more practical I think...

melofelo (Mellow fellow?) offered some useful guidance although I suspect his unit is different enough that the path to optimization is similarly different. In the end, we both agree that " the optimum setting for the platter is to get it as low as possible without 'shortcircuiting' the suspension... i.e. it still bounces freely with a very light tap.."

Oh and one more thing, the new plug I put in is polarized, what does this mean for wiring inside the Ariston? ... Can this be fixed by reversing the leads?

As is mine because I used a three conductor Hubbell plug. I would experiment with each orientation to find what works best since sometimes you will find an outlet that is not oriented correctly. I have a tester which has three lights which tell you whether or not such is the case. If you have a VOM, here is a procedure to test for minimum voltage across the outlet's ground and the turntable chassis.

rw

[poppachubby]

Thanks!! Great article. Of course I have a VOM, my amp relies on it. I'll let you know how it goes...

[JoeE SP9]

Pops using Windos is no reason not to have Quicktime installed. I have it installed on all my PC's. I tried a lot of software when I was building my music server. I tried iTunes, Songbird and Foobar. I also tried a bunch of players including Winamp, MP10 and Media Monkey.