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  1. #1
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    TT recommendations?

    I'm revisiting buying a TT and was considering the following TT's

    MusicHall 5.1 SE and 7.1

    Project RM-5 SE and RM-6.1 SB

    ClearAudio Statement TT



    Just kidding about the $150,000 ClearAudio TT.

    I really like the small foot prints of the 2 project TT's. Any one have any experience with them? I want to stay in the $1K range and dont want to buy used.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  2. #2
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    You won't regret it Blackraven, trust me. But the again Pix is the final word on all things vinyl.

    I really don't have enough exposure to these tables to comment but I'm sure JM, O'shag and a few others will be alone soon.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  3. #3
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    You should at least consider Rega. But like LDB, I haven't a lot of experience with many brands of TT. I will say that when I auditioned the P2 it was so far beyond anything I have ever heard in a TT, I didn't realize vinyl could sound so good and be so quiet. Our Rega dealer could get Project and carried their entry level table until Rega put out the P1 and they felt Rega was a better line. I had another dealer set mine up for me who carries Music Hall and the Denon TT they seemed to be in aw of my P3. Long story why I had them to set it up. Rega is capable of delivering some real fidelity I can say that for sure but how it stacks up I can't say.

  4. #4
    nightflier
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    Mh 7.1

    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    I'm revisiting buying a TT and was considering the following TT's

    MusicHall 5.1 SE and 7.1

    Project RM-5 SE and RM-6.1 SB

    ClearAudio Statement TT



    Just kidding about the $150,000 ClearAudio TT.

    I really like the small foot prints of the 2 project TT's. Any one have any experience with them? I want to stay in the $1K range and dont want to buy used.
    I bought the MH 7.1 second hand a few years ago, and I have enjoyed it very much. It comes with a very respectable Goldring Eroica cartridge and it's a nice match for the table. What I like about the 7.1 is that it is exceptionally quiet and well isolated for a budget table. It's also relatively easy to set up. The only upgrade I've done to it is to replace the cartridge to a Clearaudio one, but it's been a great performer. Upgrading from here would probably cost me upwards of $2K.

  5. #5
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    The pro-jects and the Music Halls all use the same tone arm the pro-ject 9c and are made by the same company so they will be pretty similar.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  6. #6
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    I've heard lots of good things about the RM5, I'm even considering buying one myself this summer...

    This will be an interesting thread

    Keep them spinning,
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    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  7. #7
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    It all depends on what you are looking for out of Analog.

    Do you have a separate budget for a cart and what cart and phono stage will you be using?

    I think you should at least consider SL-1200 and Denon DP-500M.
    But SL-1200 can be outfitted with a REGA arm, I would through DP-500M out of the mix.

    Best Regards,

  8. #8
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Just an option, have you considered building a TT. I put mine together from a separate base, arm, weights, cartridge etc.

    This can be a pain and very tedious by also very rewarding. It took me three tries starting from the beginning B4 I got it right. I've learned a ton about VTA, cartridge alignment and weights that I probably won't have if I bought a complete unit.

    Just a thought and not for everyone.

    LDB
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I'm going to go tho the needle doctor store here in Minneapolis and talk to them about the TT's. I'm leaning to the Pro-ject 5.1 SE since it is basically a scaled down version of the 9.1. The MH 5.1 SE and 7.1's are highly rated as well. I'm looking at a budget of $500 for a cartridge and up to $500 for a used phono preamp. Guess I need to start saving. I was going to buy a new amp, but after hearing some high end amps, I've decided my Adcom AVR is pretty good and it will take alot of money to really improve on the sound, especially since my 840c has come into its own and amazes me every time I listen to it.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  10. #10
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    I'm going to go tho the needle doctor store here in Minneapolis and talk to them about the TT's.....
    I've dealt with Dane and Matt there, both top self dudes IMO. Great place to do business. Happy hunting.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  11. #11
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    I'm looking at a budget of $500 for a cartridge and up to $500 for a used phono preamp.
    That's a nice budget for a cart, and should make your LP sing beautifully.

    If you are trying to decide between a $700 and $1000 deck, then I would go with a $700 deck and spend that extra $300 towards a phono pre. I got my VTL TP-2.5 for a steal, and it filled with top notch components. It was a remarkable revelation going from a PJ TubeBox. Thanks goodness for Agon.

    Any reason why you are not looking into P3-24 by Rega?
    With your budget, it may be wise for your to chose a TT with a superior arm. C-arm by PJ.MH is pretty nice, but its VTA adjuster/assembly is a bad joke.But it performs nicely once it's been properly adjusted.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Thanks jr. and I am considering the Rega P3 as well.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  13. #13
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Blackraven, did you get a chance to get to the NeedleDoctor yet?
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Nope. but I will go the weekend after next. I work every other weekend and have a crazy schedule. We work 7 different shifts in the ER. I have alot of time off but it comes in bunches and I just finished a week off.

    By the way, I received that Patricia Barber CD- Cafe Blue Its excellent and the recording is premo! Its an import from Japan from FIM music and its on a Gold CD. I bought it through amazon.com Its amazes me how much better these recordings are compared to regular CD's when some one masters these CD's to perfection. It approaches SACD quality.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  15. #15
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    Ah, BR, I see how it is, consider the P3 when JR recommends it, but me, nothing

  16. #16
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    I'm thinking of splurging for those suggestions of your soon. Sara K and Debbie Davis are top of the list. I would like to get them on vinyl but a decent CD player is in the works soon also.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Mr. P, I looked up the P3 at your suggestion and thanks to you its on my list. Thanks!

    You will love Debbie Davies if your a guitar blues fan. I found her on a Blind Pig Records blue's sampler CD and then bought her album- Picture This.

    LDB's, I'll let you know if Sara K's album is worth the $40 for the XRCD24 when I get it in the mail in a couple of days. She has another album called waterfall which is cheaper and sounds very good as well.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  18. #18
    Mutant from table 9
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    Wait a minute here! I might be way off base here, but I haven't seen any discussion on moving magnet vs. moving coil carts here. At this price point you are right of the crossroad between topnotch MM and better than entry MC. Maybe it is assumed that you were looking at MC, but the pros and cons should still be addressed. I admittedly have no experience with MC and steered clear due to price concerns. Unless I'm mistaken, you generally can't replace the stylus on MC carts and either have to replace the cart or send it off for retipping. Conversely, in my cart price range (sub $500) I was attracted to MM carts and the ability to upgrade just by changing stylus. And, of course, a MC cart requires a MC pre-amp.

    Just thought I'd thow it into the mix.
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  19. #19
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    Or, you could get a Dynavector cart, or something similar, which would let you have it both ways, MC and high output. It's not hard to find a good phono pre that offers both MM and MC playback though. Switchable would be nice, mine you have to go inside and switch jumpers around. I guess a switch would put off the purists.

  20. #20
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I'm going to buy a phono preamp that can do both MM and MC and then I'll worry about which cartridge to buy. It will probably be what ever one that will give me the best sound for about $500. Or if I decide to go with the MusicHall 7.1 then I'll go with the Goldring Eroica cartridge that it comes std with. Its supposed to be a very good cartridge and sells for $450 by itself. I'll see what the guys at the needle doctor say.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  21. #21
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    Two excellent choices for you Blackraven, given that they must be new. Either one will serve very well; First the Clearaudio Emotion/Satisfy Aluminum package (1,200 or so), and also the Funk Firm Vector table is supposed to be very good (guy from the excellent company Pink Triangle designed this table) considering its price. Both will get you happening in analogue, presuming you have a decent phono stage. If your planning to use your reciever, I would instead spend another $300 or so on a good entry level phono stage, which will definitely outperform the one in an receiver. Get a decent MC and you will spend your free days hunting around in Goodwill stores for 50 cent gems. What is mindblowing is how much awesome music is out there to be had for pennies - and the medium at its best positively lays waste to CD. I have a record store nearby here, that I peruse every week or so. I love the 'regular' section, but invariably end up going to the 99 cent area. If there are any scratches, the owner puts it in that section.I've got so many wonderful records there, and inevitably we chat about all things audio - great fun!

  22. #22
    RGA
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    thread is a bit old but I like the Project Debut line more than my NAD 533 which is a P2 made by Rega for NAD. And despite the internet blather to the contrary they are EXACTLY the same machines. A number of the ProJects also have a built in phono stage which will allow you to get by until you decide on something better.

    That said you can do a bunch of modifications to the Rega units - the arm is arguably better as well. I have grown to like my NAD 533/RegaP2 but I think the Debut is better right from the get go.

    Again the Rega can be better but you need to do the upgrades to get them there - I have no idea what kind of upgrades can be done with the Pro-Jects, but presumably you can take these up several levels as well.

    I asked a question about upgrading my NAD a while back and here is some good info for you if you decide to look at Rega - he is a Rega/AN dealer.

    http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...pe&r=&session=

  23. #23
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=RGA]That said you can do a bunch of modifications to the Rega units - the arm is arguably better as well. I have grown to like my NAD 533/RegaP2 but I think the Debut is better right from the get go.

    Again the Rega can be better but you need to do the upgrades to get them there

    I asked a question about upgrading my NAD a while back and here is some good info for you if you decide to look at Rega - he is a Rega/AN dealer.




    I am also a good source for Rega Planar 2 upgrades have tried and purchased several. What a great table.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  24. #24
    RGA
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    I'll probably be buying the Technoweight as soon as my TT2 arrives. Audio Note uses the Rega arms as do many other manufacturers.

    Then I'll need to figure out what upgrades I can make to the TT2 outside of the established Rega arm upgrades.

  25. #25
    Can a crooner get a gig? dean_martin's Avatar
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    This thread is a little old, but I would like to hear about BR's trip to needle doctor.

    Here's my take on the Pro-Ject RM-5 vs. the RM-5 SE: go with the regular RM-5 and add the Pro-Ject Speed Box. Then you won't have to pay for that Sumiko BPS that comes with the SE and you'll come out about $100 cheaper w/RM-5 and Speed Box. The SE with cart may seem like a better value, but from what I've read most people don't stay with a BPS for very long. For about $500 you may be able to find an original Benz Ace (it comes in low, med, and high output) which is supposed to be a good match for the carbon fibre tonearm on the Pro-Ject. Benz just came out with an updated Ace line called the Ace S at about $200 more than the original Ace. You should be able to get a deal on the original Ace if you can find one.

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