Stanton 881s stylus replacement or a new cartridge?

Greetings all,

This is my first post so please be gentle! I spent some time searching for answers to my query and didnt find anything specific to my situation.

My father recently gave me the system he put together aound 1980. This includes a McIntosh 4100 reciever, McIntosh XR-5 speakers (had the drivers and woofs reconed), and a McIntosh MQ-104. He also threw in a Denon DCD-1500 and Thorens TD 320 from the mid-eighties. Yes, ancient I know. This will make a great system for the garage where I spend a lot of time.

The Thorens turntable has a Stanton 881s cartridge, but no stylus.
I figure my options are:
1) NOS D81s, havent had much luck finding one besides $250 at stereoneedles.com
2) Stanton D827, Im not sure if this will work but needledoctor has them in stock
3) LP Gear generic replacement
4) a new cartridge and stylus

Thanks, any help would be appreciated
Emerson

Welcome to Audioreview. Your father has bestowed upon you a very nice system.
Those items you listed are all very nice components.

About the time your father purchased his system, I too purchased the Stanton 881s. It was a very nice moving magnet cartridge and I think it outperformed many of its contemporaries during its day. Stanton no longer produces that cartridge I am told.

Considering that your cartridge is approaching 25+ years of age, my opinion is that its heyday has long since passed. If you applied a fresh stylus, its internals would likely still sound old and faded.

My recommendation would be to buy a fresh new cartridge for your turntable. There are plenty of good performing cartridges available for the price of that replacement stylus.

The Stanton 881-S was a very good cartrdige, and over the years, improved models only got better and better. No original Stanton styli for it are available anywhere anymore, but the LP Gear generic stylus looks to be an OK alternative.

The Stanton stylus shape was a "Stereohedron," which was the company's proprietary version of a Shibata-type design, and like the stylus tip in the LP Gear replacement, was sourced from Japan (as were most styli in American-made phono cartridges). The Shibata stylus was originally designed to play a certain type of 4-channel record (those labeled "CD-4") but, due to its extended groove contact, was beneficial in playing back regular stereo records, and also in reducing record wear. The LP Gear generic stylus is a Shibata, so that, at least, is a good thing.

The other stylus from The Needle Doctor is a 78 rpm stylus that should never be used for playing back stereo LP's.

Over time (even 25 years), there is nothing inside the cartridge body that wears out, or "ages" in any way. All of the moving parts are in the stylus assembly.

You can certainly buy a new cartridge, but you may have to spend a good deal more than the $79.95 pricetag for the LP Gear replacement stylus to get one that sounds better than the 881-S.

LP Gear has three other generic styli that will work in your 881-S: they are all for Pickering cartridges (the XSV-3000, 4000 and 5000). All three are priced the same (which really doesn't make much sense), and are a few dollars higher than the Stanton stylus. The 881-S, or at least the early versions of it, was exactly the same thing as the Pickering XSV-3000, which is why the styli are compatible. I'd be weary though of the generic Pickering stylus from Garage 'a Records (another supplier of replacement styli) as it doesn't have a Shibata-type stylus tip, and at least from the photo, has a rather thick cantilever.

Insofar as my "credentials" for this posting, let me just state that I was a National Sales Manager for Pickering in the late 70's (when both the XSV-3000 and 881-S were introduced), and the VP of Sales and Marketing for Stanton throughout the 90's until the company was sold. I hope you find this information useful.

I also checked stereoneedles.com, and found that the original styli for both the 881-S and Pickering XSV-3000 are no longer available. They do have styli (originals, too) for the XSV-4000 and 5000, but at preposterous prices. You'd be much better off with a new cartridge than paying those prices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emaidel

Insofar as my "credentials" for this posting, let me just state that I was a National Sales Manager for Pickering in the late 70's (when both the XSV-3000 and 881-S were introduced), and the VP of Sales and Marketing for Stanton throughout the 90's until the company was sold. I hope you find this information useful.
.

---

We may not agree on everything (who does?) but facts are facts. Glad you're on board here - your background certainly makes your input on these matters invaluable, let alone "useful".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by musicoverall

We may not agree on everything (who does?) but facts are facts. Glad you're on board here - your background certainly makes your input on these matters invaluable, let alone "useful".

---

Thank you. Stanton, and to a far greater degree, Pickering cartridges never achieved "audiophile" status, even though the TOTL models from each company (which were basically identical products, save the cosmetics and packaging) deserved such accolades.

The problem lay in the companies' marketing and advertising. Since both Stanton, and to a far greater degree, PIckering sold to discounters (the nemesis of any high-end dealer), they were each often regarded as "undesirable." The mere mention of the word "discount" to many a high end dealer brought about noticeable convulsions, heart palpitations and outrage. The fact that, should such audiophile dealers have to match a discounter's price on either a Stanton or Pickering cartridge, he'd still more than double his money, didn't seem to make any difference.

The advertising of each didn't help either. Walter Stanton (who owned both companies) and the cadre of "yes-men" he surrounded himself with, firmly believed that by informing anyone of just what makes a Stanton or Pickering cartridge "tick" was tantamount to giving away trade secrets. As a result, Pickering's advertising resorted to such fluff as , "Delivers 100% Music Power!" and "The Source of Perfection in Sound," instead of anything explaining why the cartridges worked as well as they did.

Stanton was the cartridge of choice for FM stations, and as such became known as, "The Choice of the Professionals." Stanton developed a special stylus (shaped like a "W") to play the stamper too! But, since Stanton cartridges were discounted, audiophiles avoided them like the plague.

And then there's the matter of the Pickering "Dustamatic" and Stanton "Longhair" brushes. Neither company ever recovered from the ridicule they received throughout the industry (mostly from competitors who, by virtue of the patents on the brushes didn't have them) regarding these brushes. As it turns out, the brushes did an excellent job of dynamically stabilizing the tonearm and reducing low frequency resonance - just as the DIscwasher "Disctracker" did, and Shure's "Dynamic Stabilizer" did. Many thought the brushes were supposed to clean dirty records, but they were never designed for that: the bristles are too large to penetrate a groove, and as such, rub along the record's surface creating a small static electricity charge which "vacuums" up the dust into the brush. By riding on the record's surface ahead of the stylus and lifting the dust up into the bristles of the brushes, the stylus then didn't grind this very same dirt into the record itself. By the time a booklet was produced to explain what the brushes did, and didn't do, it was too late.

Strangely, today, many audiophiles boast of still using a Pickering XSV-3000, and with the brush in place too. And many of these have secretly told me that, while they always loved the cartridge, they never admitted to it, so as to avoid ridicule from other audio fans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Porkskins

Greetings all,

This is my first post so please be gentle! I spent some time searching for answers to my query and didnt find anything specific to my situation.

My father recently gave me the system he put together aound 1980. This includes a McIntosh 4100 reciever, McIntosh XR-5 speakers (had the drivers and woofs reconed), and a McIntosh MQ-104. He also threw in a Denon DCD-1500 and Thorens TD 320 from the mid-eighties. Yes, ancient I know. This will make a great system for the garage where I spend a lot of time.

The Thorens turntable has a Stanton 881s cartridge, but no stylus.
I figure my options are:
1) NOS D81s, havent had much luck finding one besides $250 at stereoneedles.com
2) Stanton D827, Im not sure if this will work but needledoctor has them in stock
3) LP Gear generic replacement
4) a new cartridge and stylus

Thanks, any help would be appreciated
Emerson

---

OMG those macs are classics don't you dare put them in the garage.

Like emaidel stated they have them at LP Gear a good company too.
here is the link

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merc..._Code=STNS881S

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/grap...00001/D81S.jpg

Also every thing you wanted to know about Thorens
http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_gallery.htm

You can down load a free manual for that unit here

http://www.theanalogdept.com/manuals.htm

This has got to be the most informative post I've ready on any forum anywhere in quite a while. Thanks for sharing some info and history on one of my favorite cartridge brands: Stanton/Pickering. Sorry I've encountered this post a month or so late.

One check question - with the Pickering brush, what increased tracking force amount is correct to use with the brush down. Stanton calls for 1gram. Is it the same for Pickering?

Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whell

This has got to be the most informative post I've ready on any forum anywhere in quite a while. Thanks for sharing some info and history on one of my favorite cartridge brands: Stanton/Pickering. Sorry I've encountered this post a month or so late.

One check question - with the Pickering brush, what increased tracking force amount is correct to use with the brush down. Stanton calls for 1gram. Is it the same for Pickering?

Thanks!

---

The answer to your question is, "yes." After the tonearm's balanced, dial in the desired tracking force, PLUS an additional gram to offset the weight of the brush (for either a Pickering or Stanton cartridge), and set the anti-skating for the additional gram as well. The cartridge will track at the proper force (not one gram heavier) as the brush offsets the added weight.

Thank you very much!

Boy am I glad I found this thread--I'm in the same boat. I just dug out my turntable that hasn't been touched in 20 years, put a new belt on (the old one disintegrated) and discovered that the needle is completely gone from my Stanton 881S. I have no idea who broke it off or when.

Since this thread was started, that replacement stylus has gone up and now costs a hundred bucks at LP Gear.

Would that still be better than buying a replacement cartridge entirely?

Man, it's been so long since I even thought about albums that I can't remember enough to even comparison shop. If it was like other technology items, the smart move would always be to buy the new equipment which would cost less and perform better. But I wonder if that's the case with analog audio gear like this? And if I were to buy a cartridge, I have no idea what I'd get.

$100 is a lot for a replacement stylus for an 881-S, and it's a tough call as to whether it's worth it or not. While I'm a great fan of the 881, I think for that price I'd opt out for a new one. Check out The Needle Doctor's website and you'll find a lot to choose from.

Does anyone know if stylus made by SOUNDRING are good, because they offer them for about US$90 or can someone point me in the direction of a high quality stylus maker? I would prefer to buy a new stylus over a cartridge replacement.

Here's the link:
http://www.soundring.com.au/StyliInfo.cfm?StyliID=1773

Though it's hard to tell for sure, the photo of that replacement stylus makes the cantilever look rather thick and clunky, as compared to that of the original. As a result, I suspect the non-original won't track as lightly, nor as clearly as the original.

is a FINE good sounding cartridge; it stands up even today. the fact that the stereohedrons arent available any more is too bad but the replacement one at LPgear should be ok.

that said, at the same LPgear is the audiotechnica AT440MLa for $99. it is also a fine sounding cart. some have said its bright but most deny that. the original 440 was a bit bright but not offensively so (i have had two) and the MLa has addressed that. it is a great value.

the tracking is superb, vg bass and slightlylaid back mids. i have one as backup to my numerous other carts including an oc9II, fr1 mk III, grace f9e, 881s, v15Vxmr, orig blue point, and an ortofon mc200.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emaidel

Though it's hard to tell for sure, the photo of that replacement stylus makes the cantilever look rather thick and clunky, as compared to that of the original. As a result, I suspect the non-original won't track as lightly, nor as clearly as the original.

---

Thank you for the help, I'm now thinking that changing the cartridge maybe the best solution. What would be a good new cartridge and stylus for a Luxman Direct Drive Turtable PD131?

I'm not familiar enough with newer moving magnet cartridges to recommend one. Perhaps a call to the folks at The Needle Doctor is in order. They're usually quite helpful and knowledgeable.

An important note on non-original, or "knock-off" replacement styli for either Stanton or Pickering cartridges: knock-off styli were a major headache for major cartridge manufacturers, as most looked like the real thing, but few ever lived up to the quality of the real thing. In the replacement stylus for the 881-S, or the Pickering XSV-3000 from whence the 881-S came, there is an important element missing in all of the knock-offs, and that is an internal tie wire. The tie wire is affixed to the end of the cantilever, and is connected to the extreme end of the metal tube that fits into the cartridge body. Its purpose is to stabilize the movment of the cantilever, and to prolong the flexibility of the entire assembly, among other things. It is also a patented feature, that's time consuming to install during manufacturing, and has never been used in a knock off stylus.

In order to connect the tie wire to the end of the metal tube, a special clamp was used during assembly which did a few things: it held the assembly in place for accurate connection of the tie wire and did so by crimping the tube and leaving a characteristic "dimple." Since heat was applied to the tube, it also usually discolored slightly.. NO replacement was ever made in this manner, and the shiny appearance of the tube on the knockoffs is a dead giveaway it's not an original.

I knew the young engineer who designed the XSV-3000, and he was quite proud of the fact that the stylus assembly alone had a whopping total of 12 patents. The tie wire is a key element of the assembly, and without it, performance suffers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emaidel

$100 is a lot for a replacement stylus for an 881-S, and it's a tough call as to whether it's worth it or not. While I'm a great fan of the 881, I think for that price I'd opt out for a new one. Check out The Needle Doctor's website and you'll find a lot to choose from.

---

This is kind of a late add to this post, but its worth noting that LP Gear also sells a more moderately priced replacement stylus for the 881 with a "Hyperelliptical" stylus. While it may not deliver all the performance of the original stereohedron, it might be worth a try as an alternative for those on a budget.

I'd agree, by the way, that with costs going up on most imported product, $100 for a stylus on a high quality cartridge is no longer an unusually high price.

Hi all,

This is a fascinating thread, and I am really really curious about how these cartridges sound. If anyone here have an extra 881 or even just a body that they are willing to part with, I'd be extremely interested in. Please, emaidel, could you help me out ?

Thank you so much in advance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JayTea

Please, emaidel, could you help me out ?

Thank you so much in advance.

---

Sorry, but I can't. While I once had quite a collection of cartridges, after accidentally destroying several on my own, and giving so many away, all that's left is what I need to keep myself going, but no one else. Good luck in your search.

You might keep an eye out for a Pickering XSV-3000 on eBay. Its the same cart as the Stanton 881, and it sometimes "flies under the radar" because folks are looking for the 881 specifically, so you can get it sometimes for a fraction of what the 881 goes for.

The Stanton 881-S and the PIckering XSV-3000 were the same thing until the "Mark II" version of the 881 came out, which is an improvement over both (there was no PIckering counterpart). Still, a NOS PIckering XSV-3000, will not disappoint.

Thanks very much for answering my question. Another one: There are different models for the stylus replacement for the 681, 881. What do these mean on the stylus: EE, EEE, EEE MKIII, S? (ie: D6800, D6800 EE , D6800 EEE-S)?
Thanks again in advance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JayTea

Thanks very much for answering my question. Another one: There are different models for the stylus replacement for the 681, 881. What do these mean on the stylus: EE, EEE, EEE MKIII, S? (ie: D6800, D6800 EE , D6800 EEE-S)?
Thanks again in advance.

---

The "E" originally stood for "elliptical." The use of the double, and then triple E's, only signified newer, and improved models, as does the "MKII". The "S" indicates "Stereohedron."

Just bear in mind also that styli from the 681 and 881 series are NOT interchangeable: the 681 is an older moving iron design, and the 881 is moving magnet, using a tiny, but very powerful, samarium cobalt magnet. The company had an inordinate fear of providing any technical information whatsoever about the inner workings of their cartridges, for fear of "giving away trade secrets," and often referred to the samarium cobalt magnets as "rare earth" magnets.

I know a lot of the Stanton Mk2 and on versions have lower mass cantilevers, which drastically reduces FIM distortion. The Mk1's often have identical suspension & diamond, theoretically being capable of high performance at lower downforce but that high effective tip mass often requires significantly more downforce to tame. A few companies, like Ortofon, have done the exact same thing in reverse with their DJing tips...making them thicker cantilevered for the marketability of "increased durability", even though I've never heard of their earlier tips snapping.

emaildel:

About the use of these Stanton cartridges with the brush, I have heard many people say that one (1) additional gram must be added to the desired tracking weight when use with the brush (ie. if the desired tracking force is 1.5gr, then install the brush, balance the tonearm and then dial in 2.5gr.) Is this correct?

The reason I asked is that I have a new 681 EEE MKIII, and its user manual says nothing about this. Also by observation, the brush is pivoted and it looks like the bristle support the whole brush itself.

What's your take on this?

Thank you very much, again.
BTW, I bought the Shibata stylus for the 681 and it sounds very smooth!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JayTea

emaildel:

About the use of these Stanton cartridges with the brush, I have heard many people say that one (1) additional gram must be added to the desired tracking weight when use with the brush (ie. if the desired tracking force is 1.5gr, then install the brush, balance the tonearm and then dial in 2.5gr.) Is this correct?

The reason I asked is that I have a new 681 EEE MKIII, and its user manual says nothing about this. Also by observation, the brush is pivoted and it looks like the bristle support the whole brush itself.

What's your take on this?

Thank you very much, again.
BTW, I bought the Shibata stylus for the 681 and it sounds very smooth!

---

I've posted this many, many times before. If you want to track at 1 1/2 grams, and are using the brush, set the tracking force to 2 1/2 grams, and the anti-skating also at 2 1/2 grams after first balancing the tonearm. The brush is self supporting, but needs the additional force applied to offset its weight (whch happens to be 1 gram).

The Stanton "Longhair" and Pickering "Dustamatic" brushes were probably the most misunderstood, and therefore, maligned features of Stanton and Pickering cartridges ever. Instructions initially called for the application of an additional gram to offset the weight of the brush, but rarely said anything about the anti-skating setting. Competitors, since the brushes were patented, ridiculed them, and to the everlasting fault of both companies, neither PIckering nor Stanton did anything to combat the ridicule until many, many years later, long after substantial damage was done.

You won't hear any difference whether using the brush or not, but the brush does a terrific job of "dynamically stabilizing" the tonearm, which aids tremendously in the playing of warped records.

I just saw this on Ebay:
"
Here's a rare unused n.o.s. Stanton D74S Stereohedron stylus! It will fit the Stanton 680/681 and Universal (P mount) cartridges but also the Pickering XV 15 and DTL series.
Specs are:

* Tracking force 0,75 gr to 1,5 gr.
* Stereohedron .3X2.8(8X71)
* Frequency range 10-25K

It has the exactly the same specs as the Stanton 681EEE MkII-S! (but the fingergrip is clear and it has no brush)"

I thought the replacement for the 681 series were the D6800 only?
Is this worth considered???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JayTea

I just saw this on Ebay:
"
Here's a rare unused n.o.s. Stanton D74S Stereohedron stylus! It will fit the Stanton 680/681 and Universal (P mount) cartridges but also the Pickering XV 15 and DTL series.
Specs are:

* Tracking force 0,75 gr to 1,5 gr.
* Stereohedron .3X2.8(8X71)
* Frequency range 10-25K

It has the exactly the same specs as the Stanton 681EEE MkII-S! (but the fingergrip is clear and it has no brush)"

I thought the replacement for the 681 series were the D6800 only?
Is this worth considered???

---

That's for one of the several "P"-mount cartridges Stanton (and others) made during the 80's. P-mount tonearms were all standardized so that P-mount cartridges simply plugged in, were secured with a single screw, and no other adjustments had to be made. As one couldn't adjust tracking force or anti-skating (it was all pre-set according to the universal P-mount standards), the Longhair brush couldn't be used. Stay away from it.

I found this thread today by accident, and about fell-over.

I can't believe I'm in contact with some so close to the "horses mouth" (Walter Stanton)!

As someone who has purchased hundreds of Stanton cartridges for broadcast use (and for my home stereo's), I'm SO glad emaidel is here! I have so much respect for those great products.

I could probably ask you questions for hours...till your ears fell off (or eyes fell out). I joined this group just so I could ask you questions.

This is so amazing!

I guess I should consider myself blessed to have a new, in the box 881s.

Dave O.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daveobieone

I found this thread today by accident, and about fell-over.

I can't believe I'm in contact with some so close to the "horses mouth" (Walter Stanton)!

As someone who has purchased hundreds of Stanton cartridges for broadcast use (and for my home stereo's), I'm SO glad emaidel is here! I have so much respect for those great products.

I could probably ask you questions for hours...till your ears fell off (or eyes fell out). I joined this group just so I could ask you questions.

This is so amazing!

I guess I should consider myself blessed to have a new, in the box 881s.

Dave O.

---

My, that's quite some praise! And so, I thank you. You are but one of a few who feel that way about me (I seem to rattle members' cages more than I intend to with my posts).

While I have over 30 years experience in the industry with two of those years with PIckering in the late 70's, and 7 of them in the 90's with Stanton, other than that making me somewhat of an "authority" on products from those comopanies, I am by no means any more a voice of authority on these pages than anyone else. I post my opinions for others to read, and hopefully benefit from, and enjoy reading posts from other members who do likewise.

And I too have a new, in the box 881-S MKII. I'm hanging onto it in the event the W.O.S. 100 Collector's Series cartridge I'm using somehow fails me in the future.

Unfortunately (I guess) Mine isn't the series II.

What was the improvement there? Anything really noticeable?

BTW, I just bought another new/old Pickering...an NOS 345-03d for my Seeburg jukebox.

I had asked in one of the other threads about the differences between moving magnet, and moving iron. (some folks had a good time answering me)

It amazes me that the 881, and the 681 look so similar, but really were so different.

Does anyone know what every happened to Empire? I used to use some of their cartridges as well...for home audio only. The suspension always gave out on them pretty quickly as I recall.

Dave O.

As I recall, the 881-S used a bonded Stereohedron tip, and the MKII used a nude diamond on a narrower cantilever.

Empire was one of the first cartridge companies to go belly-up with the introduction of the CD. They were never noted for anything particularly special, and their sales focus was almost exclusively on "private-label" cartridges, and not on top quality models.

Shure continued to manufacture "hi-fi" cartridges for a while after the CD, and then, after realizing Stanton's enormous success in the DJ business, made several DJ models which captured the attention and admiration of a group of "scratching" DJ's and sold very well. Shure still makes a few "hi-fi" cartridges, but its TOTL unit, the V/15 Type V mxr is history, just like many others.

I bought one of the last V15s. The first one I got was defective...wouldn't track at all. The second one was really very good. I also bought 3 spare styli...some of the last ones that were available there too. I think it's a very good cartridge...just slightly boring. I get more enjoyment out of my Stantons, or my Denon 301 (which is VERY bright!) on dull sounding records.

Dave O.

The 500 low-effective-mass cantilever tips were great. I wish the thin needled EL, AL (broadcast), and Emk2 would be brought back. The ALII is just too high massed and for scratch people. Such a neutral sounding cartridge, though. Emk2 is bright, but I've got my modded TCCs back with 100pF capacitance to try and see if they become tamed. The OM5E is soooo rolled off at 100pF on the TCC. Yikes. Have to crank the treble up.

On the Shure V15, I've heard if you lower the capacitance and/or increase the input resistance you can really improve the sound from its dull standard. The 97 also suffers from that.

I have new versions of both (last version of the V15), and the M97 sounds much more rolled-off at the high frequencies than the V15 does. I still wouldn't call the V15 bright however. Especially not compared to the Stantons, Grados and Denon MC I have.

The M97 does track pretty well however...pretty close to the V15 in that respect, and a little better than the Grado Gold I have. When I need to track something cut at stupid-hot levels, I go for the Shure...especially if I can EQ the high end afterwards.

Most of the time, I prefer the sound of the Stantons (even the lowly 500 series) to just about all the others I have (and I like the the 681s even more). I know that might make no sense to some folks...even to me sometimes, and especially not to the high-end audio press, but it's just what I like. I also have a very nice Denon moving coil, and the Denon trasnsformer to match, but on most of my records, the Denon is just too bright. The Stantons are a very good balance...at least with my systems. I'd call them neutral, and well balanced.

Someone with very bright sounding speakers might easilly prefer the M97 over all these I've mentioned. It all depends on how the system all sounds together.

Dave O.

The 500Emk2 has too much bass on the TCC too at 100pF. I'm thinking the RIAA equalization got screwed up changing the caps out, since it's a discrete design. The treble is about right to maybe a bit dull at times, but sounds oddly crunchy when it is at all bright. Not delicate. Possibly a sonic result of the mids being recessed, now...well, they're always a bit recessed on the Emk2 compared to the ALII, but not by too much. I'm thinking maybe 150pF might be nice to try next. Or just get my tech to put the 220pF's back in and use shorter cables. Maybe that's smarter. I'd hate to spend money a third time having him put them in finally again if the 150pF is also no good.

Are the 15 and 97 tips interchangeable? I'm wondering if the 97 tips can also fit on the Whitelabels, which are the last version of the 15 internally. Anyone have a 97 and a Whitelabel dj cart? Or if anyone has a really old 97 tip that still works (can't be busted) they could send me, I could give it a go. Seems like a waste of those high grade insides with a mid-tip-mass cantilever and spherical diamond. The tubes look identical.

Hi folks! My First post here. Found this site and thread looking for info about two Stanton cartridges I have, more specifically the "NOS" 881S-II with a spare stylus I picked up several years ago. I bought a new 881S in 1979 and it became my primary cartridge. Then while looking for a spare stylus 7 or 8 years ago, I found the 881S-II. Have read that some later 881S-IIs do not have the Stereohedron stylus. So without a microscope to look, is there a way to tell? The box the "II" came in is identical to the old 881S box from 1979. Also it has a folded sheet in the box extolling the benefits of the Stereohedron stylus. So maybe it's a first generation "II"?

Also I wonder if the stylus from a Pickering XUV/4500-Q would work properly in an 881S body. Reason is, I have an XUV/4500-Q but I can't load it properly any more since I retired the amplifier (Pioneer SA-9800) that has cartridge load settings. It sounds bright and harsh with the standard loading of my Creek phono preamp. So.. thinking the 881S body would be more appropriately matched to the standard 47k-250pF or so load, I could use the near-new Quadrahedral stylus in the 881S body and get away from the exaggerated treble the 4500Q produces. Comments? Warnings? THANKS!

The V15 and M97 styli are interchangeable.

However, putting a V15 stylus in an M97 will not make the M97 sound like a V15. The tracking ability will be that of a V15, but the sound of the V15 cartridge and stylus is still clearly better.

I'm not sure exactly what's different inside of the two cartridge bodies...they look very similar from the outside, but there is clearly something different going on inside.

I don't know what the Whitelabel cartridge or styli you refer to are.?. Do you mean aftermarket?

I have had good results with my Stanton 500 cartridge bodies with two different styli...the Pickering DJ stylus that KAB has sold (but are now out of), and the Stanton D71ee. They have quite different purposes. The DJ stylus is (was) a nearly exact replacement for the long unavailable 500a (.0007, conical, 2-5grams tracking). The D71ee is a nice sounding eliptical that tracks very well at about 1.6grams. The 500 cartridge body will sound quite different with those two different styli. The D71ee is much brighter sounding. Not harsh, just brighter. The Pickering DJ stylus sounds much heavier at that low end, and softer at the high end. Not muddy, just a little less high end.

The DJ stylus tracks pretty well at about 2.5 grams...unlike the older 500AL stylus, which needs about 3.5 grams to clean up the tracking distortion...which is a little too heavy, especially for styrene 45's. I was really looking for the ideal replacement for the 500A stylus (D5107a). Since KAB is now out of the Pickering DJ stylus, I guess next time I need some, I'll need to keep looking.

I've been told the later 500AL stylus was supposed to replace the 500A...and that it would track 2-5grams like the old 500A, but I have not been able to confirm this. I can tell you that the aftermarket 500AL from Phanstiehl requires more than 3 grams to clean up. The web-based supplier I bought some from recently had them advertized as tracking from 2-5grams, but they sound pretty bad below 3 grams, and the package clearly says 3-7grams.

Dave O.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed_in_Tx

Also I wonder if the stylus from a Pickering XUV/4500-Q would work properly in an 881S body.
THANKS!

---

The stylus for the XUV-4500Q should work just fine in the 881-S body, as the two bodies are very, very similar. With proper capacitive loading, the XUV/4500Q sounds pretty good, and quite close to the Stanton 881-S. The "MK II" model has a nude (as opposed to bonded) Stereohedron stylus, and most "MK II" models were packaged in grey/silver jewelry boxes, instead of the clear plastic ones for the original 881-S models. There is no way you can tell the difference in any of these stylus tips without a microscope.

The XUV/4500Q is, in my opinion, the finest cartridge made by anyone for the playback of CD-4 quadraphonic records. Most such cartridges from either Pickering, Stanton or Audio Technica prior to the 4500 sounded downright lousy, and all tracked rather heavily, though as the stylus pressure was spread across a far larger portion of the groove wall (that which is described as the "scanning radius") it didn't really matter, many people hated the idea of setting their tonearms as high as was necessary for these cartridges.

The 4500Q was the first CD-4 cartrdige that not only tracked well at only 1 gram, but also sounded very, very good as a stereo-only cartridge - something none of its predecessors did. Unfortunately, it was introduced practically at the very moment the quadraphonic industry came to a crashing halt. The XSV-3000 (actually identical to the original Stanton 881-S models) was the result of using the engineering and stylus design that went into the 4500Q, but without the ability to properly playback CD-4 records, as almost no one cared. Instead of the sales flop the 4500 was, the 3000 was a huge success.

Well, I had my sub turned up, which is why the TCCs sounded so bassy. Heheh. Oops. I still don't like the highs on the TCC preamp with ceramic caps (too crunchy when it's not too tame) and the KSA blue poly caps my tech put on the other sound way too phasey. I think the Ortofon OM5E probably works best at 250pF total, the Shure V15/Whitelabel at 225pF (though Shure claims to voice everything at 250pF/47kohm), and the Stanton 500/400 at 200pF total (though Stanton claims to voice at 275pF/47kohm).

An old Numark 100pF phono pre with a very midrangey sound actually mates well with the 500E mk2 and shortened cable. A little bright, but much tighter and deeper low end than the OM5E, not to mention better detail and extension up top clear out to 18khz. Scary synergy that a $35 cartridge mated to a $50 preamp sounds better than $100+ carts with varous mixers and outboard pres, including modded ones.

The Shure Whitelabel is a DJing cartridge in an integrated headshell that uses the V15xMR (whatever) as the innerds of it. The tubes of the 15 and 97 tips have identical shapes, and I don't like the 97's increased inductance over the 15. So was thinking of trying the 97 elliptical on the WL, but don't really want to spend $100 on a pair just to try on my djing carts. If anyone has a used, worn-out 97 stylus then I'll pay the shipping to be able to see if it fits. I don't know why anyone would want to waste a primo V15 stylus on an M97 body; I essentially want to try the reverse.

The D71EE is the same diamond and suspension as the old 500EE mk2, not the 500E mk2. However, I can't tell if the cantilever is the same thickness as the single-E or thicker from the pics. The stylus housing itself is a weird shape that only looks like it'd work with the newer 500 & 400 bodies (without the triangle on top) and the P/universal adapter 720EE (what it comes mounted on). Do you have first hand experience successfully getting a D71EE tip on an old 500 body? Is it a thin cantilever like the E?

The difference between the E and EE is the .4 diamond to the .3 elliptical and only 1.5 units of compliance difference with 14.5 on the E and 16 on the EE...both a pretty good sweetspot, in my opinion. I didn't really need more squishyness, though, as I think the Emk2 is already very compliant at 1.75 grams. The 1.6 gram you cite for the EE sounds like it must be the thinner cantilever. Yes?

The original A and AL 500's were also the thinner cantilevers, I believe, which is why they didn't need so much downforce as the record killing ALII and V3 sphericals with overbuilt shafts. Interestingly, on the 680 front, the original EL was thicker and needed 3 grams while all subsequent DJ models have used thinner aluminum shafts that were great at 2 grams. I really think thick-cantilevered DJing tips and scratch-tards have really screwed up the phono cart scene, though ironically perhaps helped keep it alive.