Stanton 881s stylus replacement or a new cartridge?

[whell]

... well, I was watching a new Stanton 881s (with original D81 stylus) on eBay but another bidder won.

So I've ordered a shibata stylus from Jico.
I'd get it within a week... I'll let you know!

Good choice. I'm not sure who makes the styli for LP Gear. Some suggest that they are made by Jico, but I don't think so.

[tizeta2]

Good choice. I'm not sure who makes the styli for LP Gear. Some suggest that they are made by Jico, but I don't think so.

The Shibata stylus is here!
Great service and very good manufacture.

It sounds good, highs are very clear but my Stanton 680EL MK2 seems to produce a more full sound on mid and low range. The 881s with Shibata stylus is quite "cold"... is it possible?

[whell]

The Shibata stylus is here!
Great service and very good manufacture.

It sounds good, highs are very clear but my Stanton 680EL MK2 seems to produce a more full sound on mid and low range. The 881s with Shibata stylus is quite "cold"... is it possible?

Its very possible, as mine was this way as well. I say "was this way" because it the stylus does seem to benefit immensely from a prolonged break in period. The sonic differences between new and about 20 - 30 hours of playing time were significant in my experience.

[daveobieone]

People do say the moving iron type cartridges (which would be the 681) sound more "warm".

It is also possible that yours needs a little break-in time to smooth out a bit. Let a dozen or so LP's play under it, and see if the sound becomes a little more to your liking.

Dave O.

[tizeta2]

People do say the moving iron type cartridges (which would be the 681) sound more "warm".

It is also possible that yours needs a little break-in time to smooth out a bit. Let a dozen or so LP's play under it, and see if the sound becomes a little more to your liking.

Dave O.

Hello Dave!

The shibata is playing for 10 hours and the sound is a bit better now.
But if I replace it with my "old" 680EL, this one will offer a full sound I can't listen to with the 881s and shibata.

In addition the 881s with shibata stylus amplifies dust and vinyl defects.

It's quite frustrating...

Just another question: what are differences between a 681 cartidge and my 680 MkII with D680EL MkII stylus?

Thanks!

[daveobieone]

As nearly as I can tell, the 681 and 680 cartridge bodies are the same. The styli that come with the 680 series seem better suited to DJ use, and the 681 was clearly more for Hi-Fi. It is possible that the 681 bodies had tighter specs however...as they were usually higher priced.

Do not confuse the 680/681 with the 881 however. The 680/681 being moving iron, and the 881 is moving magnet. They may look the same, but they are not interchangeable.

I am surprised that the new stylus picks up a lot more noise however. Line-contact type styli should generally be more quiet...depending on the record of couse. Perhaps it's just because it's brighter (has a stronger high-end) than the 681?

In my experience, most original factory Stanton styli didn't benifit much from break-in time. Aftermarket may be a MUCH different story however. My Grado products needed considerable break-in time.

[whell]

As nearly as I can tell, the 681 and 680 cartridge bodies are the same. The styli that come with the 680 series seem better suited to DJ use, and the 681 was clearly more for Hi-Fi. It is possible that the 681 bodies had tighter specs however...as they were usually higher priced.

They bodies are the same. The only difference is that the 681 cartridges were "calibrated", and performance specifications were included with each new cartridge sold, given that the 681 series was targeted at the professional market. The extra effort to provide the performance specs for each cartridge sold was the prime differentiator for pricing, along with, I believe, the more limited production runs for some of the professional styli versus the "consumer - grade" styli available for the 680 series.

[tizeta2]

... just got an original D81S!!!
I'll let you know something as soon as possible...

[whell]

... just got an original D81S!!!
I'll let you know something as soon as possible...

Ah, you're killin' me!

[smersh]

Hi emaidel, thanks very much, I'll look for a D-81S stylus or replacement. Do you think there's any chance an original/NOS D-3000 stylus will turn up somewhere...?

cheers Sam

[daveobieone]

Great news (for me at least)...
I checked and had two 881s cartridges, and one slightly bent 881s stylus.

The new in box 881s is actually a mkII...as is the slightly bent 881s stylus. I still have not mounted-up the 881s mkII however...but I probably will this week.

So, I was also in a thread at Vinyl Engine today, and one of the posters there said that his 881s mkII stylus was not a nude mount.?.

If nfalbert or emaidel are still hanging around (I hope!), I'd love to know if they think the 881s mkII was ever made with a bonded (as opposed to a nude) stylus?

Just trying to get some info from "the horses mouth" so to speak. :-)

Thanks guys!
Dave O.

[daveobieone]

You've simply gotta see this...

www.regonaudio.com/Stanton881AudioTechnicaATML70.html

It's an interview with Doug Sax and other mastering engineers about their favorite phono cartridges.

All this 881s talk now has me inspired...I'm mouting up my NOS 881s mkII now.

Dave O.

[daveobieone]

I don't know if this helps any or not...
My 881s mkII cartridges are from 1981 and 1983.

The factory test calibration data says they are about 900 ohms and about 530 mH.

It would seem that the 890AL early version would be the closest...but I have no experience with the 890 series (just to be clear). The readings from the 890SA would seem to produce a fairly muddy sound with an 881s stylus...that's a lot more inductance.

Dave O.

[tizeta2]

Hi again... after getting the original D81S I've decided to sell my nearly new (less than 20 hours played) Jico D81 SHIBATA styus. Anyone interested?

[tizeta2]

Tried to send you a private message but it's been disabled. I have an 881S coming in a few days, no idea if the stylus is any good, so I may be interested in the Jico. Please try to pmsg me or contact me via regular e-mail, how much you're asking - my email addr is my user name@att.net. Thanks!

Thank you for your interest. I've just sent you an email.
Anyway here is my email address: tizeta2ATgmailDOTcom

[Reticuli]

Actually, I think the D71EE tip is 13Um/mN, while the Emk2 was 14Um/mN, and the EEmk2 was 16Um/mN. The old 500EL is 12Um/mN and had an output of 1.0mV/cm/sec. The output of the 71EE is .9mV/cm/sec, and the Emk2 & EEmk2 are both .8mV/cm/sec.

I think the 71EE might be a sweet spot. 14-20Um/mN is getting really close to being too compliant on Technics, Stanton, Numark, Vestax, and the super OEM tables' arms when the extra counter weight is off.

9Um/mN is actually not compliant enough, as can be found on the Ortofon Nightclubs (original) and the Stanton 680HP. You can see breakup in the low-end on those even at the recommended downweight, even with the extra counter weight on these arms. You have to also keep the OM weight in and maybe also add the headshell weight, too. Moving the counterweight back to compensate will increase the swing inertia to just barely enough.

Halfway between 14 and 20 is 17. The difference between 17 and 9 is 8. 9 plus 4 is 13. That's right smack dab in the optimum range of the aforementioned arms. The 680ELII/eV3 is 12Um/mV, and I've never heard of a single person complain it didn't match well with their arm for mixing purposes.

If only Ortofon would release an OM tip at around 12-15Um/mV. You've got the djing tips at 9Um/mV or less (!!!) and the hifi OM tips are all twice that or more. Their only carts in the sweetspot range for most medium mass arms are their expensive ones. The OM5E is borderline useable with the OM brass weight & extra counterweights both off, assuming you're using a lighter headshell.

[ettoregg]

HI, this is a reply to Jay Tea - or everyone interested in buying a Stanton 881S II cartridge. I have such cartridge to sell, very good condition, the stylus is original and has had a fair use. I don'r have the original box, only the mounting screws.
I can send photos to anyone interested. No reasonable offers refused. I am based in the UK.
giuliano.gasparini@wspgroup.com

[atomicAdam]

HI, this is a reply to Jay Tea [/email]

Hi ettoregg,

Welcome to audioREVIEW forums. Thanks for joining the community. One thing about our forums though, we don't encourage or allow users to post for sale items as forum post. You can have links to for sale items in your sig, or use the audioreview classifieds found here: http://classifieds.audioreview.com/index.php

Thanks a lot. Could you edit your post for me. Thanks,
-adam

[Reticuli]

Anyone got any ideas why the 500Emk2 distorts so much in the highs, even though it tests fine on the Hifi News Test record frequency IMD tests? Even the following reviewer has similar experiences:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/daveyw/cartridges/

I really like the mids on the Emk2 and the bass is deep and harmonically rich. But those tizzy sibilants and hi hats are problematic. I run it 1.75-2 grams with enough antiskate (max at 2g) to straiten out the cantilever.

Maybe the former stanton engineer has some ideas.

[emaidel]

I'm quite surprised you have such an interest in the 500-E MKII. The original design dates back to the early 60's, and is essentially a cheap, 2-coil design that was remarkable over 40 years ago, but by today's standards, is really a poor performer. It, and the equivalent Pickering V/15 series cartridges were easily eclipsed by the Stanton 681 and PIckering XV/15, 4-coil models, which were introduced around 1967. No matter how the stylus tip was improved over the decades, with the "MK II" designations and the like, it's basically just a super-cheap cartridge and nothing more.

When Pickering and Stanton were manufacturing thousands of cartridges a month for "hi-fi" use, and not DJ use, careful attention to detail and super-terrific QC standards applied. You can bet your bottom dollar that such an approach isn't done today, as it's just too time consuming and costly. The company rightfully manufactures mostly DJ cartridges, and the handful of consumer, or "hi-fi" models that occasionally roll off an assembly line don't get the tender, loving care their predecessors did. I'd suggest you try something else.

[Ed_in_Tx]

Speaking of old Stanton cartridges, one popped up on ebay I've not seen, only imagined it probably existed since there was a Pickering 4500Q CD-4 cartridge... a Stanton 780/4DQ. How rare are those? I suspect it's placement in the lineup would be similar to the Pickering 3000-Stanton 881? 780 like a "calibrated" 4500Q?

[emaidel]

Speaking of old Stanton cartridges, one popped up on ebay I've not seen, only imagined it probably existed since there was a Pickering 4500Q CD-4 cartridge... a Stanton 780/4DQ. How rare are those? I suspect it's placement in the lineup would be similar to the Pickering 3000-Stanton 881? 780 like a "calibrated" 4500Q?

There was never a Stanton equivalent for the XUV/4500Q, which, in my opinion, was the best cartridge ever manufactured for the playback of CD-4 records. The Stanton 780 was more likely the Stanton equivalent of the earlier XUV/2400Q design, which frankly, was pretty horrible. Even Walter Stanton himself, in a rare statement of this type, stated the design was "a bad one." The early CD-4 cartridges from both companies tracked heavily (as did others from Audio Technica) and sounded simply awful.

The XUV/4500Q was a major departure from them, utilizing (for the first time) samarium cobalt as the magnetic material, and a super-thin cantilever. It was the first - and only - CD-4 cartridge capable of tracking at 1 gram. It had the misfortune to have been introduced almost simultaneously with the collapse of the quadraphonic market, but the XSV-3000 evolved as the stereo deriivative, employing a less drastic stylus deisgn, designated "Stereohedron" instead of "Quadrahedron," and it was an enormous sales success, morphing into the Stanton 881-S.

[Ed_in_Tx]

There was never a Stanton equivalent for the XUV/4500Q....

Hi Ed, much THANKS for the clarification. I can rest easy now, knowing there's nothing to be missed on this one.

[Reticuli]

O.k. so it's probably just quality control issues on the tips or would hunting down old bodies help? It's really too bad, because at 2g downforce the mids and bass are great and I can even dj with them...yes, a cardinal sin buy one I indulge in regularly. My Denons and 680s don't have anywhere near the issues with spitty, distorted sibilants. You know, the 700 series (p mount versions of the 500) tips are being mounted on 400 bodies and sold by KAB on a lot of tables right now. I'd much rather have an OM5E (or 10E if the arm's lite or the phono stage bassy) just for the better distortion character.

[hifitommy]

although the v15Vs are highly regarded by some, i would only recommend one if the jico SAS stylus is also purchased to use with it. i have had and been privy to listening to numerous shures at length and have never felt musically invigorated by their sound.

however, many users have experienced wonderful and engaging sound using the SAS stylus with the shure carts. this includes the m97xe and v15III and v15V series.

the 881s is one of my favorite sounds, and i still have a NOS stylus to go onto the body that i have. i am looking forward to the day that i actually mount and listen to it. i took an inordinate amount of time to get to remounting and listening to my grace f9e and f9L and for now, i am loving it. the same will happen with my 881s.