Stanton 881s stylus replacement or a new cartridge?

[Porkskins]

Greetings all,

This is my first post so please be gentle! I spent some time searching for answers to my query and didnt find anything specific to my situation.

My father recently gave me the system he put together aound 1980. This includes a McIntosh 4100 reciever, McIntosh XR-5 speakers (had the drivers and woofs reconed), and a McIntosh MQ-104. He also threw in a Denon DCD-1500 and Thorens TD 320 from the mid-eighties. Yes, ancient I know. This will make a great system for the garage where I spend a lot of time.

The Thorens turntable has a Stanton 881s cartridge, but no stylus.
I figure my options are:
1) NOS D81s, havent had much luck finding one besides $250 at stereoneedles.com
2) Stanton D827, Im not sure if this will work but needledoctor has them in stock
3) LP Gear generic replacement
4) a new cartridge and stylus

Thanks, any help would be appreciated
Emerson

[squeegy200]

Welcome to Audioreview. Your father has bestowed upon you a very nice system.
Those items you listed are all very nice components.

About the time your father purchased his system, I too purchased the Stanton 881s. It was a very nice moving magnet cartridge and I think it outperformed many of its contemporaries during its day. Stanton no longer produces that cartridge I am told.

Considering that your cartridge is approaching 25+ years of age, my opinion is that its heyday has long since passed. If you applied a fresh stylus, its internals would likely still sound old and faded.

My recommendation would be to buy a fresh new cartridge for your turntable. There are plenty of good performing cartridges available for the price of that replacement stylus.

[emaidel]

The Stanton 881-S was a very good cartrdige, and over the years, improved models only got better and better. No original Stanton styli for it are available anywhere anymore, but the LP Gear generic stylus looks to be an OK alternative.

The Stanton stylus shape was a "Stereohedron," which was the company's proprietary version of a Shibata-type design, and like the stylus tip in the LP Gear replacement, was sourced from Japan (as were most styli in American-made phono cartridges). The Shibata stylus was originally designed to play a certain type of 4-channel record (those labeled "CD-4") but, due to its extended groove contact, was beneficial in playing back regular stereo records, and also in reducing record wear. The LP Gear generic stylus is a Shibata, so that, at least, is a good thing.

The other stylus from The Needle Doctor is a 78 rpm stylus that should never be used for playing back stereo LP's.

Over time (even 25 years), there is nothing inside the cartridge body that wears out, or "ages" in any way. All of the moving parts are in the stylus assembly.

You can certainly buy a new cartridge, but you may have to spend a good deal more than the $79.95 pricetag for the LP Gear replacement stylus to get one that sounds better than the 881-S.

LP Gear has three other generic styli that will work in your 881-S: they are all for Pickering cartridges (the XSV-3000, 4000 and 5000). All three are priced the same (which really doesn't make much sense), and are a few dollars higher than the Stanton stylus. The 881-S, or at least the early versions of it, was exactly the same thing as the Pickering XSV-3000, which is why the styli are compatible. I'd be weary though of the generic Pickering stylus from Garage 'a Records (another supplier of replacement styli) as it doesn't have a Shibata-type stylus tip, and at least from the photo, has a rather thick cantilever.

Insofar as my "credentials" for this posting, let me just state that I was a National Sales Manager for Pickering in the late 70's (when both the XSV-3000 and 881-S were introduced), and the VP of Sales and Marketing for Stanton throughout the 90's until the company was sold. I hope you find this information useful.

I also checked stereoneedles.com, and found that the original styli for both the 881-S and Pickering XSV-3000 are no longer available. They do have styli (originals, too) for the XSV-4000 and 5000, but at preposterous prices. You'd be much better off with a new cartridge than paying those prices.

[musicoverall]

Insofar as my "credentials" for this posting, let me just state that I was a National Sales Manager for Pickering in the late 70's (when both the XSV-3000 and 881-S were introduced), and the VP of Sales and Marketing for Stanton throughout the 90's until the company was sold. I hope you find this information useful.
.

We may not agree on everything (who does?) but facts are facts. Glad you're on board here - your background certainly makes your input on these matters invaluable, let alone "useful".

[emaidel]

We may not agree on everything (who does?) but facts are facts. Glad you're on board here - your background certainly makes your input on these matters invaluable, let alone "useful".

Thank you. Stanton, and to a far greater degree, Pickering cartridges never achieved "audiophile" status, even though the TOTL models from each company (which were basically identical products, save the cosmetics and packaging) deserved such accolades.

The problem lay in the companies' marketing and advertising. Since both Stanton, and to a far greater degree, PIckering sold to discounters (the nemesis of any high-end dealer), they were each often regarded as "undesirable." The mere mention of the word "discount" to many a high end dealer brought about noticeable convulsions, heart palpitations and outrage. The fact that, should such audiophile dealers have to match a discounter's price on either a Stanton or Pickering cartridge, he'd still more than double his money, didn't seem to make any difference.

The advertising of each didn't help either. Walter Stanton (who owned both companies) and the cadre of "yes-men" he surrounded himself with, firmly believed that by informing anyone of just what makes a Stanton or Pickering cartridge "tick" was tantamount to giving away trade secrets. As a result, Pickering's advertising resorted to such fluff as , "Delivers 100% Music Power!" and "The Source of Perfection in Sound," instead of anything explaining why the cartridges worked as well as they did.

Stanton was the cartridge of choice for FM stations, and as such became known as, "The Choice of the Professionals." Stanton developed a special stylus (shaped like a "W") to play the stamper too! But, since Stanton cartridges were discounted, audiophiles avoided them like the plague.

And then there's the matter of the Pickering "Dustamatic" and Stanton "Longhair" brushes. Neither company ever recovered from the ridicule they received throughout the industry (mostly from competitors who, by virtue of the patents on the brushes didn't have them) regarding these brushes. As it turns out, the brushes did an excellent job of dynamically stabilizing the tonearm and reducing low frequency resonance - just as the DIscwasher "Disctracker" did, and Shure's "Dynamic Stabilizer" did. Many thought the brushes were supposed to clean dirty records, but they were never designed for that: the bristles are too large to penetrate a groove, and as such, rub along the record's surface creating a small static electricity charge which "vacuums" up the dust into the brush. By riding on the record's surface ahead of the stylus and lifting the dust up into the bristles of the brushes, the stylus then didn't grind this very same dirt into the record itself. By the time a booklet was produced to explain what the brushes did, and didn't do, it was too late.

Strangely, today, many audiophiles boast of still using a Pickering XSV-3000, and with the brush in place too. And many of these have secretly told me that, while they always loved the cartridge, they never admitted to it, so as to avoid ridicule from other audio fans.

[BRANDONH]

Greetings all,

This is my first post so please be gentle! I spent some time searching for answers to my query and didnt find anything specific to my situation.

My father recently gave me the system he put together aound 1980. This includes a McIntosh 4100 reciever, McIntosh XR-5 speakers (had the drivers and woofs reconed), and a McIntosh MQ-104. He also threw in a Denon DCD-1500 and Thorens TD 320 from the mid-eighties. Yes, ancient I know. This will make a great system for the garage where I spend a lot of time.

The Thorens turntable has a Stanton 881s cartridge, but no stylus.
I figure my options are:
1) NOS D81s, havent had much luck finding one besides $250 at stereoneedles.com
2) Stanton D827, Im not sure if this will work but needledoctor has them in stock
3) LP Gear generic replacement
4) a new cartridge and stylus

Thanks, any help would be appreciated
Emerson

OMG those macs are classics don't you dare put them in the garage.

Like emaidel stated they have them at LP Gear a good company too.
here is the link

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merc..._Code=STNS881S



Also every thing you wanted to know about Thorens
http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_gallery.htm

You can down load a free manual for that unit here

http://www.theanalogdept.com/manuals.htm

[whell]

This has got to be the most informative post I've ready on any forum anywhere in quite a while. Thanks for sharing some info and history on one of my favorite cartridge brands: Stanton/Pickering. Sorry I've encountered this post a month or so late.

One check question - with the Pickering brush, what increased tracking force amount is correct to use with the brush down. Stanton calls for 1gram. Is it the same for Pickering?

Thanks!

[emaidel]

This has got to be the most informative post I've ready on any forum anywhere in quite a while. Thanks for sharing some info and history on one of my favorite cartridge brands: Stanton/Pickering. Sorry I've encountered this post a month or so late.

One check question - with the Pickering brush, what increased tracking force amount is correct to use with the brush down. Stanton calls for 1gram. Is it the same for Pickering?

Thanks!

The answer to your question is, "yes." After the tonearm's balanced, dial in the desired tracking force, PLUS an additional gram to offset the weight of the brush (for either a Pickering or Stanton cartridge), and set the anti-skating for the additional gram as well. The cartridge will track at the proper force (not one gram heavier) as the brush offsets the added weight.

[whell]

Thank you very much!

[beton]

Boy am I glad I found this thread--I'm in the same boat. I just dug out my turntable that hasn't been touched in 20 years, put a new belt on (the old one disintegrated) and discovered that the needle is completely gone from my Stanton 881S. I have no idea who broke it off or when.

Since this thread was started, that replacement stylus has gone up and now costs a hundred bucks at LP Gear.

Would that still be better than buying a replacement cartridge entirely?

Man, it's been so long since I even thought about albums that I can't remember enough to even comparison shop. If it was like other technology items, the smart move would always be to buy the new equipment which would cost less and perform better. But I wonder if that's the case with analog audio gear like this? And if I were to buy a cartridge, I have no idea what I'd get.

[emaidel]

$100 is a lot for a replacement stylus for an 881-S, and it's a tough call as to whether it's worth it or not. While I'm a great fan of the 881, I think for that price I'd opt out for a new one. Check out The Needle Doctor's website and you'll find a lot to choose from.

[fabian558]

Does anyone know if stylus made by SOUNDRING are good, because they offer them for about US$90 or can someone point me in the direction of a high quality stylus maker? I would prefer to buy a new stylus over a cartridge replacement.

Here's the link:
http://www.soundring.com.au/StyliInfo.cfm?StyliID=1773

[emaidel]

Though it's hard to tell for sure, the photo of that replacement stylus makes the cantilever look rather thick and clunky, as compared to that of the original. As a result, I suspect the non-original won't track as lightly, nor as clearly as the original.

[hifitommy]

is a FINE good sounding cartridge; it stands up even today. the fact that the stereohedrons arent available any more is too bad but the replacement one at LPgear should be ok.

that said, at the same LPgear is the audiotechnica AT440MLa for $99. it is also a fine sounding cart. some have said its bright but most deny that. the original 440 was a bit bright but not offensively so (i have had two) and the MLa has addressed that. it is a great value.

the tracking is superb, vg bass and slightlylaid back mids. i have one as backup to my numerous other carts including an oc9II, fr1 mk III, grace f9e, 881s, v15Vxmr, orig blue point, and an ortofon mc200.

[fabian558]

Though it's hard to tell for sure, the photo of that replacement stylus makes the cantilever look rather thick and clunky, as compared to that of the original. As a result, I suspect the non-original won't track as lightly, nor as clearly as the original.

Thank you for the help, I'm now thinking that changing the cartridge maybe the best solution. What would be a good new cartridge and stylus for a Luxman Direct Drive Turtable PD131?

[whell]

$100 is a lot for a replacement stylus for an 881-S, and it's a tough call as to whether it's worth it or not. While I'm a great fan of the 881, I think for that price I'd opt out for a new one. Check out The Needle Doctor's website and you'll find a lot to choose from.

This is kind of a late add to this post, but its worth noting that LP Gear also sells a more moderately priced replacement stylus for the 881 with a "Hyperelliptical" stylus. While it may not deliver all the performance of the original stereohedron, it might be worth a try as an alternative for those on a budget.

I'd agree, by the way, that with costs going up on most imported product, $100 for a stylus on a high quality cartridge is no longer an unusually high price.

[JayTea]

Hi all,

This is a fascinating thread, and I am really really curious about how these cartridges sound. If anyone here have an extra 881 or even just a body that they are willing to part with, I'd be extremely interested in. Please, emaidel, could you help me out ?

Thank you so much in advance.

[emaidel]

Please, emaidel, could you help me out ?

Thank you so much in advance.

Sorry, but I can't. While I once had quite a collection of cartridges, after accidentally destroying several on my own, and giving so many away, all that's left is what I need to keep myself going, but no one else. Good luck in your search.

[whell]

You might keep an eye out for a Pickering XSV-3000 on eBay. Its the same cart as the Stanton 881, and it sometimes "flies under the radar" because folks are looking for the 881 specifically, so you can get it sometimes for a fraction of what the 881 goes for.

[emaidel]

The Stanton 881-S and the PIckering XSV-3000 were the same thing until the "Mark II" version of the 881 came out, which is an improvement over both (there was no PIckering counterpart). Still, a NOS PIckering XSV-3000, will not disappoint.

[JayTea]

Thanks very much for answering my question. Another one: There are different models for the stylus replacement for the 681, 881. What do these mean on the stylus: EE, EEE, EEE MKIII, S? (ie: D6800, D6800 EE , D6800 EEE-S)?
Thanks again in advance.

[emaidel]

Thanks very much for answering my question. Another one: There are different models for the stylus replacement for the 681, 881. What do these mean on the stylus: EE, EEE, EEE MKIII, S? (ie: D6800, D6800 EE , D6800 EEE-S)?
Thanks again in advance.

The "E" originally stood for "elliptical." The use of the double, and then triple E's, only signified newer, and improved models, as does the "MKII". The "S" indicates "Stereohedron."

Just bear in mind also that styli from the 681 and 881 series are NOT interchangeable: the 681 is an older moving iron design, and the 881 is moving magnet, using a tiny, but very powerful, samarium cobalt magnet. The company had an inordinate fear of providing any technical information whatsoever about the inner workings of their cartridges, for fear of "giving away trade secrets," and often referred to the samarium cobalt magnets as "rare earth" magnets.

[GP49]

(regarding the Stanton 681 cartridges) The "E" originally stood for "elliptical." The use of the double, and then triple E's, only signified newer, and improved models, as does the "MKII". The "S" indicates "Stereohedron."

Something I have wondered about ever since the 681s were Stanton's top cartridges:

One of them, at least in its original form when first introduced, was physically different in the construction of its cantilever: the Stanton 681EE.

All of the rest have the usual tubular aluminum cantilever which is flattened and closed at the stylus end, so there is a double-thickness of the aluminum where the hole is, for mounting the stylus tip or shank. The 681EE had a tubular aluminum cantilever which had, for want of a better term, an open end cut to a taper: the cantilever was tapered down but the tubular shape remained open, not flattened at the stylus end, in fact one could see through the cantilever from the stylus end, right through to the magnet end. The stylus tip mounted into only one thickness of aluminum. Instinctively one would think this a less sturdy design but perhaps it had its own advantages?

When the 681EEE was introduced I noted that it seemed to have a slightly more forward high frequency response than the 681EE. My memory has faded over the years and the speakers I was using at the time are now gone, but I seem to recall that the 681EEE sounded like it had a peak in the high range where the 681EE sounded like it had a smoother response. I was wondering whether perhaps this was due to a slightly higher mass to the 681EEE cantilever. Over the years I've wound up with several original 681EEE styli but I only ever owned one 681EE; apparently the 681EE was produced for a much shorter time, perhaps being discontinued when the 681EEE was introduced, with subsequent availability possibly being dependent upon existing stock. Regardless, with the turntable/arm, amplification and loudspeakers I had at the time, I preferred the 681EE but when the 881S appeared, I changed over to that cartridge. My lone 681EE stylus has lain ignored, then forgotten ever since. For a while I thought I had lost it.

Then I found my Stanton 681EE stylus, of course while looking for something else. Over many years I forgot that it was in a box for a 681EEE stylus. Taking the time to look at the item instead of the box, I spotted the tell-tale silver ellipse on the plastic grip, rather than the letters "EEE." Yes, the cantilever is open on the stylus end, and Yes, you can see right through it from one end to the other! Its construction does look quite fragile and the nude-mounted diamond is very tiny. I might just mount it up and see what I think of its sound now. It has probably been twenty years since I last listened to it.

ANYWAY, does either of our two resident ex-Stanton engineers know about this particular cantilever construction in the 681EE, and why it was changed later?

BACKGROUND: I've used Stantons ever since the 500E and kept up with their top-line products up to the 981 series. When I was in audio service and repair, I worked for in stores which were Stanton dealers. Currently my main cartridge is a Decca London...but as Ken Kessler once recommended, I keep a more conventional cartridge around, too: a Stanton 881S. For LP-to-CD conversions I use a 680SL (actually a D6800SL stylus in a 681EEE body). It tracks heavier than the 881S which can be desirable when dubbing less-than-pristine LPs; but, all by itself among the heavier-tracking Stanton 681/680 styli and their Pickering brethren, it has the Stereohedron tip.

[emaidel]

ANYWAY, does either of our two resident ex-Stanton engineers know about this particular cantilever construction in the 681EE, and why it was changed later?

.

'Fraid not. The 681EEE was introduced in 1974, two years before I joined Pickering. It was actually a derivative of the Pickering XV/15-1200E, but with some noticeable improvements, mostly its ability to cope with sibilance which the 1200-E couldn't. Whether this had anything to do with the cantilever shape, is something I have no idea about. I purchased one for myself and liked it quite a bit, but greatly preferred the Pickering XSV/3000 and then the Stanton 881-S. My preference for them had little to do with the shape of the cantilever - I just felt that the two newer models sounded a whole helluva lot better.

[smersh]

Hello,

I'm wondering if I could ask you the best way to proceed with an old XSV-3000 cartridge that has no stylus...

It got broken somehow around 1980 and I've had the cart stored in its orig box since then. I've seen some forum posts suggesting a Stanton 881s stylus might work but also some recommending the D-3000 for the Stanton...

I'd be very grateful if somone could suggest a reasonably affordable option so I can use this great cartridge I've kept for so many years.

After scrolling through these posts I'm also wondering if I need to have only an orig D-3000 stylus with that fine wire attached...(?)

Thanks from New Zealand.

Cheers Sam