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  1. #1
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I went TT shopping

    I went TT shopping yesterday at the Needle Doctor here in Minneapolis yesterday. I looked at the MH MMF 7.1, MMF 5.1, Pro ject 5.1se, the new Rega RP-3, Clear Audio Concept and some lesser Pro-ject, Music Hall and Rega TT's. I am probably eventually going to buy the MMF 7.1 or MMF5.1se. I really like the Pro-ject 5.1se but they have no dust covers and with 2 dogs a cover is a must. I did not get to listen to them but based on bulid quality, features and reviews by the sales staff the MMF's may be the best fit. They really like the warmer sound of the Rega TT's but the MMF's have better isolation which is a must for my wood floors. The MMF's also have better detail and resolution. With proper preamp and cartridge matching I can get that warmer sound with the MMF's. They really like the pro-ject tube box IIse and the tube box II. For a cartridge, I am considering the Clear Audio Maestro and Virtuoso. They also recommended the Ortofon Rondo Red MC.

    They were also pushing the out going Rega P5 which is closing out for $1K. I would be interested in it but it is so damn fugly. I have enough fugly gear with my retro AVA gear.

    For any one interested in buying an entry level TT like the Rega P-1, skip it. It is pretty cheaply built. The platter is plastic and light weight, the sub platter is cheap as well. Go with the Pro-ject RPM 1.3 or the Music Hall MMF 2.2, both of which are much more solidly built with much heavier platters and sub platters. The Pro-ject is a lot of TT for the money with an isolated motor.

    I also got to hear these $7K Mordaunt Short speakers and was not impressed in the least. There was no body or warmth to the midrange at all. They were not even in the same league as my Magnepan's.

    Mordaunt-Short Performance 6 Floorstanding Speakers
    Last edited by blackraven; 11-05-2011 at 03:56 PM.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
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  2. #2
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    From what I'm seeing, people are generally more impressed with the RP1 than the MMF-2.2 or the Debut III. If I were in the market at that price range, I'd most likely go with the Rega...and that's coming from someone who actually owns a Debut III.

    As for the Music Hall vs. Rega comparison...How do you come by the position that the Music Hall turntables have more detail and resolution? I owned a MMF-5 and currently have a P5 and I can tell you it ain't so. The MMF-5 sounded fatter and warmer than the P5 and has audible flutter. Are you getting all this information from the Needle Doctor guys? It all sounds backward to me.

    Also...having owned a MMF-5, I didn't see a difference in isolation from my Rega when it comes to things related to my wood floors. The split plinth should help isolate the motor, but the floor is pretty much a different animal.
    Last edited by 02audionoob; 11-05-2011 at 05:34 PM.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Noob, I didnt actually listen to the TT's and I'm not dissing the Rega's (well maybe the P-1). I am just telling you what the guys over at the Needle Dr said after talking with them for about 45 min. As for the Rega P1, it was cheaply built in comparison and the salesman even said you get more for your money with the other TT's in its class. You cant even place a heavier platter on the P-1 because you will decrease life of the motor. And you can't compare an MMF 5.1 to a P5 which cost much more (about $600) than the MMF5. (They liked the warmer sound of the RP3 and P5 over the MMF5.1se, MM7.1. They said the M7 and Clear Audio Concept were more airy and detailed). The P5 should sound better and is better. I'm not dissing the Rega TT's. In fact they highly recommended the new RP3 and P5 TT's. I went there to take a look at the new RP-3 TT which I am still considering buying. Comparing different TT's is like comparing apples to oranges. There are so many variables to take into consideration such as the type of cartridge, phono preamp, set up, etc. To me, comparing TT's is like trying to compare different speakers.

    Peace!
    Last edited by blackraven; 11-05-2011 at 06:56 PM.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
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    Parasound A21 amp
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    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
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  4. #4
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I realize it isn't a fair fight when you're comparing turntables with a big price difference, but from what I have heard from Pro-Ject, Music Hall and Rega, they're telling you wrong on the characteristics. To a Rega fan, a Music Hall or Pro-Ject can sound sluggish and muddy. To a Pro-Ject and Music Hall fan, a Rega can sound lean and analytical. They're all nice, but they have identifiable differences that are relatively consistent. I'm not claiming Rega is better or that you're dissing it. I'm just saying I think what they told you is flawed.

    As for the RP1's platter...I'd rather have that than the steel platter on my Debut III, so it wouldn't ring and moving-coil cartridges wouldn't stick to it.

  5. #5
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    The PR-1's platter is flimsy and the platter on the Pro-Ject RPM1.3 is high density low resonance fiber board and it has a decoupled motor to boot. Now I can't comment on the sound of the TT's as I did not hear them. But it all boils down to what cartridge and preamp you use.
    Last edited by blackraven; 11-06-2011 at 12:39 AM.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  6. #6
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I don't buy the comment that it all boils down to other items. The turntable and tonearm matter. They greatly influence how well the cartridge can do its job. Look at what Tone Audio had to say about the "plastic" platter.



    That's my last comment. I'll read, but no more replies.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Jeeze Noob, don't get so hot. I was only stating what I saw and was told at the store. I may have been a little hasty in saying it all boils down to the phono preamp and cartridge but they do make a huge difference and you have to take that into account. Especially when comparing TT's and giving them an audition. All the parts in the chain have to have synergy. And we all have our preferences and different amps, speakers, etc., thats why there are so many choices. And as far as the P-1 goes, the guys at the shop pointed out the cheap platter and sub platter and that there were better choices in that price range. And when I see a flimsy plastic platter and a cheap looking sub platter, I think cost savings which usually is not good in the HiFi world. Well looks ain't every thing, the P-1 may blow the other TT's away in sound for what little I know and it ain't much. I'm just learning about TT's, I have a lot of research to do and a lot of listening to TT's and music to do.

    Cheers!
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
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    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  8. #8
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Let me chime in here. I've listened to quite a few tables in the last year and I can tell you, I've listen to the Rega P-3, P-5, P-7, MMF-2.1, MMF-5.1, MMF-7.1 Technics SQ-3 (?) , VPI hw 19 mk III, Marantz TT-15S1 and a few others in between. I can also tell you, I heard audio hobbyist diss all of them as much as they praised all of them. As far as I am concerned , I can tell you....Raven you are absolutely correct. A record player sounds best when its set up properly and matched with the right gear.

    Having said that..I've listen to the Rega P3- and my own more than any of them. I know they are not the same class tables but the Rega P-3 sound seems uninspiring to my ears. It could have been the system or setup or both. The other Rega's did sound different from my 7.1...I don't think they where as musical. And I've heard the Rega P-3 more than a few times. The P-7 is not the most attractive TT with that weird looking platter. It was driving a very expensive Germany tube integrated whos name escapes me at the moment. It was driving some Dynaudio C-1 speakers. Sounded ok, but it was not as airy as I would have liked.

    I am really loving my MMF-7.1. The Isolation is outstanding. I hear nothing whatsoever other than the music. But I must add that I have it in a room with concrete floors. I have noticed the sound changes slightly with the change of mats. I have a more than subtle change when I changed phono cables. Of course the sound changed again when I went from a SS to a tubed preamp...a sound to die for....and I know it will change again when I get another phono amp. I know my cheap cart is really holding my 7.1 back, and with the added phono amp and new cart, a 2M Black or Grado Reference Sonata, the 7.1 will be all that. The sound is not lean...not muddy, not sluggish at all, cant hear any w&f...even with the cheap 2M Red the sound is full, wide, very good pace, nice decay and a nice full bottom end. And the thing is really fluid and very musical. There are many times im just sitting and listening and just caught up in what I am hearing, and then after a while I come back to my self and just glance over at the 7.1 and just smile at how musical the sound is and how smooth and fluid it is

    . Are there better tables? Sure there are....and Raven you may listen to the 7.1 and not like it at all....but I doubt it. But I love it. Some people diss it because of Roy Hall, some people dont like it because its not American, some people dont like it because for the price they can get a more popular named audiophile table so they can keep up with the Jones...But I can tell ya....I like it for the great sound thats coming out of my speakers. The 7.1 is a great table.
    Last edited by frenchmon; 11-06-2011 at 05:36 PM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  9. #9
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Noob, I didnt actually listen to the TT's and I'm not dissing the Rega's (well maybe the P-1). I am just telling you what the guys over at the Needle Dr said after talking with them for about 45 min. As for the Rega P1, it was cheaply built in comparison and the salesman even said you get more for your money with the other TT's in its class. You cant even place a heavier platter on the P-1 because you will decrease life of the motor. And you can't compare an MMF 5.1 to a P5 which cost much more (about $600) than the MMF5. (They liked the warmer sound of the RP3 and P5 over the MMF5.1se, MM7.1. They said the M7 and Clear Audio Concept were more airy and detailed). The P5 should sound better and is better. I'm not dissing the Rega TT's. In fact they highly recommended the new RP3 and P5 TT's. I went there to take a look at the new RP-3 TT which I am still considering buying. Comparing different TT's is like comparing apples to oranges. There are so many variables to take into consideration such as the type of cartridge, phono preamp, set up, etc. To me, comparing TT's is like trying to compare different speakers.

    Peace!
    Raven did they have any record players set up to listen too? Also. from my experience in TT and audio gear in general....especially speakers, its best if you can get them to let you listen for a while in your own home with your own gear. Also...I thought my 7.1 really sounded good with all SS gear. But when I went with a tube preamp and ss amp (hybrids) it brought tears to my eyes. Keep in mind, Vincent is not syrupy sweet tubed gear, but a more lively tube sound...and the 7.1 with its air fit the bill perfectly.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  10. #10
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Frenchmon, they had the MMF-9 and the new Rega P-3 set up and a few other TT's out of my price range. They had quite a bit of TT's on display but not hooked up. I didn't have time to really listen to any TT's. I am going to go back and spend some time there. I really like the design of the double and triple plinths of the Music Halls along with the uncoupled motors. The Pro-Jects are nice to because they are compact.
    I have a hard time believing that any of the TT's- Rega, Pro-Ject or MH sound bad. They all have gotten pretty good reviews and prices are very similar in their classes that they all sell well. The salesman stated that the MH's are heavier and have vibration absorbing feet on the bottom and that they may be a slightly better choice for my hardwood floors. The Rega P-3 weight just 14lbs and the MH 5.1se and MMF7.1 weighs in at 24lbs so there is quite a bit of difference for stabiltiy. Which ever table I go with I will eventually get a speed controller and PSU.

    I eventually may go the used route and range.look for a MMF5.1, P-3 or an older Rega. I recently missed out on a Rega P-25 for $700 here locally. I would like to pair it with the Pro-Ject Tube Box SE II phono preamp but I would like to listen to the PS Audio GCPH preamp.

    Frenchmon , I'm glad you like the Vincent amp. I wish I had gone for a Hybrid amp. I would like to sell my Parasound and buy the new AVA 400R or even take a listen to one of the Vincent amps as the AVA amp is getting a little out of my price. Tubes are the way to go!
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  11. #11
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I'm going to break my above promise and go ahead and reply. I just can't help myself. First...the weight quoted for the Music Hall MMF-5.1 at 24 pounds includes the packing materials. Second...the whole idea behind Rega's design concept is low mass. They even go so far as to CNC-machine the plinth of the higher models into a skeletal form to make it lighter before it is sandwiched between the phenolic surface sheets. The light weight and rigidity is their way of dissipating vibration. I'm not commenting on whether it works or how well, but if a Rega dealer is criticizing a Rega turntable for its light weight, they seem like a pretty odd Rega dealer to me. This is from Stereophile:



    Please don't get me wrong on this...I like Music Hall turntables. I even plan to get another one some day. But I disagree with the information presented in this thread.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Noob you could be right. The salesman may have been feeding me fodder. I am just presenting what I was told. And they didnt talk down about the Rega P-3 and P-5's that I was looking at. They thought that they would give me the sound that I was looking for. As for which TT would give better isolation, I have no idea which would be better. I have always heard that heavier is better but I am certainly not up to speed on TT technology. I will be hitting a couple of other high end stores here in town and see what they have to say. I will also check out the other Needle Dr store in town and see what they have to say.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  13. #13
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Noob you could be right. The salesman may have been feeding me fodder. I am just presenting what I was told. And they didnt talk down about the Rega P-3 and P-5's that I was looking at. They thought that they would give me the sound that I was looking for. As for which TT would give better isolation, I have no idea which would be better. I have always heard that heavier is better but I am certainly not up to speed on TT technology. I will be hitting a couple of other high end stores here in town and see what they have to say. I will also check out the other Needle Dr store in town and see what they have to say.

    Dog man!!! You have two Needle doctors in town???? You lucky dog.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  14. #14
    Can a crooner get a gig? dean_martin's Avatar
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    I feel like a stranger in a foreign land reading about someone popping into a store and seeing turntables on display.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I would love to have an audio store in 40 miles that would display and demo various turntables. I was going to comment on Rega ttables but mine has not been a true Rega for years. It has now been a few years since I have heard a stock Rega and even longer since I last heard my Project sourced Thorens. I will say the Rega Planar 2 has been incredibly dependable and easy to set and forget.
    JohnMichael
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  16. #16
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    The vinyl scene here in the Twin Cities is huge with Cheapo Records and the Electric Fetus devoting huge area's to vinl. Cheapo has a whole floor dedicated the LP's. The two high end Audio stores here (Audio Perfection and HiFi Sound) have always had multiple high end TT's on display.

    By the way, I did not mean for this thread to turn into a Rega vs MH and Pro-ject discussion. It was just meant for me to tell what I had seen and heard at one of the Needle Doctors in town.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
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    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
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  17. #17
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    The vinyl scene here in the Twin Cities is huge with Cheapo Records and the Electric Fetus devoting huge area's to vinl. Cheapo has a whole floor dedicated the LP's. The two high end Audio stores here (Audio Perfection and HiFi Sound) have always had multiple high end TT's on display.

    By the way, I did not mean for this thread to turn into a Rega vs MH and Pro-ject discussion. It was just meant for me to tell what I had seen and heard at one of the Needle Doctors in town.


    I appreciate your experiences because I do not have the time to find a shop to audition ttables. I think Rega and MH/Project are two of the better affordable turntable lines and both very popular. I think that is why they are often compared.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  18. #18
    RGA
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    My only advice here is to not skimp. IME it takes a largish outlay of cash to really do vinyl justice - it's unfortunate but I have simply not been wowed by any cheap turntable.

    I have heard the Rega P2 and P3 over the years. I owned a NAD 533 which is a Rega P2 made by Rega for NAD. I had the very popular very well reviewed Shure M97xE cartridge. It was all very bland sounding. I preferred a cheaper ProJect turntable but I heard it several months after I bought the NAD.

    I would try and hear a suspended deck like the Linn LP 12 or Audio Note TT1 (a turbo charged Systemdeck IIX).

    http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/...003_an_tt1.pdf

    Joe Audiophile Turntables And Bandwidth Article By Scott Faller

    What I find you get here is considerably better dynamics and timing and a freer more open presentation.

    Systemdeks can be had fairly cheaply on the used market - the advantage here is that unlike most old units you can still get parts and or upgrade them since another company has picked them up and made them better. A Systemdeck could be around the $250 range. The trouble with the Audio Note decks - is A) finding them and B) the wait time. I had to wait 10 and a 1/2 months for my TT2.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    My plan is to try and buy a used Phono Tube Box IISE and possibly a Clear Audio Virtuoso cartridge and either the new Rega P-3, MMF7.1, MMF5.1se or just the 5.1 depending upon funds and system matching. I would love to buy a higher end TT but I think I will have to make a sacrifice in some part of the system chain. Having to pay for 2 college tuitions and with me retiring from the emergency department after 25yrs and taking a much lesser paying job in an urgent care, money is tight. So now I'm looking at the most bang for the buck. Who knows, I could end up with something totally different depending upon how things sound.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  20. #20
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    My only advice here is to not skimp. IME it takes a largish outlay of cash to really do vinyl justice - it's unfortunate but I have simply not been wowed by any cheap turntable.

    I have heard the Rega P2 and P3 over the years. I owned a NAD 533 which is a Rega P2 made by Rega for NAD. I had the very popular very well reviewed Shure M97xE cartridge. It was all very bland sounding. I preferred a cheaper ProJect turntable but I heard it several months after I bought the NAD.

    I would try and hear a suspended deck like the Linn LP 12 or Audio Note TT1 (a turbo charged Systemdeck IIX).

    http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/...003_an_tt1.pdf

    Joe Audiophile Turntables And Bandwidth Article By Scott Faller

    What I find you get here is considerably better dynamics and timing and a freer more open presentation.

    Systemdeks can be had fairly cheaply on the used market - the advantage here is that unlike most old units you can still get parts and or upgrade them since another company has picked them up and made them better. A Systemdeck could be around the $250 range. The trouble with the Audio Note decks - is A) finding them and B) the wait time. I had to wait 10 and a 1/2 months for my TT2.

    Oh brother...are you saying that an old record player will clobber a new modern record player?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  21. #21
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Dont know what your Van Alstine Ultra Hybrid Tube Preamp is like...if its syrupy or more lively like at ARC or Vincent, but if its like the later two then I know either the Rega, MH/Pro-Jects will be just fine...at least that been my experience...You might want to even consider the Marantz or Clearaudio record players as well.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  22. #22
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Frenchmon, the AVA preamp is very lively and musical with great dynamics. It leans slightly to the warmer side but has a full midrange, great air and transparency with excellent high frequency extension and detail depending upon what tubes I use in it and the Hybrid AVA DAC. I would not call it syrupy. I can easliy change the sound to neutral to bright with much more air, transparency and dynamics by installing a pair of new Electro-Harmonix tubes in either the Preamp or DAC. I don't use the EH's because they can be a little sibilant at times. But that may change since I just purchased a pair of warm sounding Raytheon Black plates and Tung Sol Black plates to try and pair with the EH's.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
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    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
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    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
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  23. #23
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviethek View Post
    Maybe one of the reasons why people like direct drive is because they have heard entry level belt drive tables and just prefer not to deal with speed variations. I have a 2.2 and the motor speed is noticeably off. I tried implementing a speed box and it didn't like it. I heard the same motor is in the 5.1, which leads me toward getting the 7 or 7.1 in the MH line as a logical starting point for properly rated motors of acceptable design.

    There should be no variations in speed large enough to be noticeable in modern tables costing 500.00. The fact that a stereophile reviewer noticed better sound when implementing a speed box on a cheap table may lead some people to buy speed boxes. It has led me to take my table out of service. Shame on them. I am thinking decent direct drive for a table under 1K
    You could find that decent direct drive turntable for under $100 on Craigslist and easily outperform any modern belt-drive turntable under $1k and some that are over $1k.

  24. #24
    Linear Guy
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    Motors

    Maybe one of the reasons why people like direct drive is because they have heard entry level belt drive tables and just prefer not to deal with speed variations. I have a 2.2 and the motor speed is noticeably off. I tried implementing a speed box and it didn't like it. I heard the same motor is in the 5.1, which leads me toward getting the 7 or 7.1 in the MH line as a logical starting point for properly rated motors of acceptable design.

    There should be no variations in speed large enough to be noticeable in modern tables costing 500.00. The fact that a stereophile reviewer noticed better sound when implementing a speed box on a cheap table may lead some people to buy speed boxes. It has led me to take my table out of service. Shame on them. I am thinking decent direct drive for a table under 1K

  25. #25
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    Oh brother...are you saying that an old record player will clobber a new modern record player?
    What exactly does age have to do with anything - a 20 year old Voyd Reference 3a is still considered one of the handful best decks built and yes better than anything I have heard from Clearaudio, rega and ProJect. - And it's one reason you will pay many times the original price for a Voyd on the used market.

    The SystemDek tables have had pretty significant changes made to it by Audio Note - a new motor, platter, wiring etc. A used Systemdek at least has these upgrade option available to it. Many older decks from Thorens for example - do not.

    It comes down to design - a suspended platter design is different than non suspended platter designs - and done right it's tough going to the non suspended types. The TT1 is the best table I have heard in the price range - around $1700 with arm and cartridge. It is easily better than the Clearaudio Emotion the dealer had set-up. Buying used has some issues - the condition of the thing for a start. And the systemdek isn't as good but it will be in the ballpark and will only run $300-$400.

    I think it's important to judge it after you've actually heard it. The TT1 is better than it looks. Looks is a difficult thing to pass up I suppose.

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