I went TT shopping

[JohnMichael]

The vinyl scene here in the Twin Cities is huge with Cheapo Records and the Electric Fetus devoting huge area's to vinl. Cheapo has a whole floor dedicated the LP's. The two high end Audio stores here (Audio Perfection and HiFi Sound) have always had multiple high end TT's on display.

By the way, I did not mean for this thread to turn into a Rega vs MH and Pro-ject discussion. It was just meant for me to tell what I had seen and heard at one of the Needle Doctors in town.

I appreciate your experiences because I do not have the time to find a shop to audition ttables. I think Rega and MH/Project are two of the better affordable turntable lines and both very popular. I think that is why they are often compared.

[RGA]

My only advice here is to not skimp. IME it takes a largish outlay of cash to really do vinyl justice - it's unfortunate but I have simply not been wowed by any cheap turntable.

I have heard the Rega P2 and P3 over the years. I owned a NAD 533 which is a Rega P2 made by Rega for NAD. I had the very popular very well reviewed Shure M97xE cartridge. It was all very bland sounding. I preferred a cheaper ProJect turntable but I heard it several months after I bought the NAD.

I would try and hear a suspended deck like the Linn LP 12 or Audio Note TT1 (a turbo charged Systemdeck IIX).

http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/...003_an_tt1.pdf

Joe Audiophile Turntables And Bandwidth Article By Scott Faller

What I find you get here is considerably better dynamics and timing and a freer more open presentation.

Systemdeks can be had fairly cheaply on the used market - the advantage here is that unlike most old units you can still get parts and or upgrade them since another company has picked them up and made them better. A Systemdeck could be around the $250 range. The trouble with the Audio Note decks - is A) finding them and B) the wait time. I had to wait 10 and a 1/2 months for my TT2.

[frenchmon]

My only advice here is to not skimp. IME it takes a largish outlay of cash to really do vinyl justice - it's unfortunate but I have simply not been wowed by any cheap turntable.

I have heard the Rega P2 and P3 over the years. I owned a NAD 533 which is a Rega P2 made by Rega for NAD. I had the very popular very well reviewed Shure M97xE cartridge. It was all very bland sounding. I preferred a cheaper ProJect turntable but I heard it several months after I bought the NAD.

I would try and hear a suspended deck like the Linn LP 12 or Audio Note TT1 (a turbo charged Systemdeck IIX).

http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/...003_an_tt1.pdf

Joe Audiophile Turntables And Bandwidth Article By Scott Faller

What I find you get here is considerably better dynamics and timing and a freer more open presentation.

Systemdeks can be had fairly cheaply on the used market - the advantage here is that unlike most old units you can still get parts and or upgrade them since another company has picked them up and made them better. A Systemdeck could be around the $250 range. The trouble with the Audio Note decks - is A) finding them and B) the wait time. I had to wait 10 and a 1/2 months for my TT2.

Oh brother...are you saying that an old record player will clobber a new modern record player?

[RGA]

Oh brother...are you saying that an old record player will clobber a new modern record player?

What exactly does age have to do with anything - a 20 year old Voyd Reference 3a is still considered one of the handful best decks built and yes better than anything I have heard from Clearaudio, rega and ProJect. - And it's one reason you will pay many times the original price for a Voyd on the used market.

The SystemDek tables have had pretty significant changes made to it by Audio Note - a new motor, platter, wiring etc. A used Systemdek at least has these upgrade option available to it. Many older decks from Thorens for example - do not.

It comes down to design - a suspended platter design is different than non suspended platter designs - and done right it's tough going to the non suspended types. The TT1 is the best table I have heard in the price range - around $1700 with arm and cartridge. It is easily better than the Clearaudio Emotion the dealer had set-up. Buying used has some issues - the condition of the thing for a start. And the systemdek isn't as good but it will be in the ballpark and will only run $300-$400.

I think it's important to judge it after you've actually heard it. The TT1 is better than it looks. Looks is a difficult thing to pass up I suppose.

[frenchmon]

What exactly does age have to do with anything - a 20 year old Voyd Reference 3a is still considered one of the handful best decks built and yes better than anything I have heard from Clearaudio, rega and ProJect. - And it's one reason you will pay many times the original price for a Voyd on the used market.

The SystemDek tables have had pretty significant changes made to it by Audio Note - a new motor, platter, wiring etc. A used Systemdek at least has these upgrade option available to it. Many older decks from Thorens for example - do not.

It comes down to design - a suspended platter design is different than non suspended platter designs - and done right it's tough going to the non suspended types. The TT1 is the best table I have heard in the price range - around $1700 with arm and cartridge. It is easily better than the Clearaudio Emotion the dealer had set-up. Buying used has some issues - the condition of the thing for a start. And the systemdek isn't as good but it will be in the ballpark and will only run $300-$400.

I think it's important to judge it after you've actually heard it. The TT1 is better than it looks. Looks is a difficult thing to pass up I suppose.

Ok...thats fine RGA, I thought you where of that crowd of people who are always talking about go and get an old Technics off Craigslist or from the GW put a good needle on it, and it will sound just as good if not better than these modern record players. I tried that with an old Technics, and with the same needle's my MH 2.1 ate the Technics for lunch.

[tube fan]

What exactly does age have to do with anything - a 20 year old Voyd Reference 3a is still considered one of the handful best decks built and yes better than anything I have heard from Clearaudio, rega and ProJect. - And it's one reason you will pay many times the original price for a Voyd on the used market.

The SystemDek tables have had pretty significant changes made to it by Audio Note - a new motor, platter, wiring etc. A used Systemdek at least has these upgrade option available to it. Many older decks from Thorens for example - do not.

It comes down to design - a suspended platter design is different than non suspended platter designs - and done right it's tough going to the non suspended types. The TT1 is the best table I have heard in the price range - around $1700 with arm and cartridge. It is easily better than the Clearaudio Emotion the dealer had set-up. Buying used has some issues - the condition of the thing for a start. And the systemdek isn't as good but it will be in the ballpark and will only run $300-$400.

I think it's important to judge it after you've actually heard it. The TT1 is better than it looks. Looks is a difficult thing to pass up I suppose.

I have both types of TTs and VASTLY prefer non suspended TTs: better timbre and bass. Most suspended TTs sound lightweight IMO. The Lynn is particularly overrated.