Grado Sonata 1 Low Output

One of the great aspects of this cartridge is the center fill. I have heard some carts that the imaging would not be as solid in the center. The Grado Sonata is solid the full width of the soundstage. Oh and Rage is sounding awesome. I keep hearing things I have not heard before and everything makes more musical sense. Very nice. I need to buy the Sonata some more vinyl.

This thread is certainly moving the Sonata higher on my list. It also makes me wonder about a Grado Signature TLZ on my local Craigslist. The seller says it has been sitting unused since new, which I assume is 10 years or so.

I would consider Ortofon carts detailed and lively...some say they are passionless carts...which I have not found the case with the 2M Red. I'm sure the Sonata is very much romantic but would you say its lively like a Ortofon?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

I would consider Ortofon carts detailed and lively...some say they are passionless carts...which I have not found the case with the 2M Red. I'm sure the Sonata is very much romantic but would you say its lively like a Ortofon?

---

The Grado Sonata does passion and instrumental colors much better. Of course this is in comparison with the OM20. While I would consider the OM20 analytical I often thought of it as cold. The Statement Sonata bests any of my cartridges. At first I though the Grado sounded slow but then realized the timing of the music was more accurate. The way complex music is intertwined with counter melodies the Sonata presents it all as it should be. Nothing gets confused or bunched together.

The Grado tracked perfectly through the earthquake.

For grins I pulled out the CA 640P phono pre to see how it might work with the Grado. Just like the AT F7 there was volume but no dynamics. The Slee Fanfare 3 is a better match. The Statement Sonata needs a sensitive phono stage to sound it's best.

I thought since the Grado output is greater than the AT F7's rated output it would be useable with all my phono preamps but that is not the case. I know output of a cartridge can vary depending on the grooves modulations. I am just surprised I need to turn the volume up more with the Grado than with the AT F7 with their outputs going to the Fanfare 3.

The highs are opening up more then past Grados' in my experience. Good recordings are obviously wonderful but nothing I have listened to has been bad. It seems the Grado can show off the good and flatter the less than perfect. I need that is a camera.

I may one day power up the cd player again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnMichael

The Grado tracked perfectly through the earthquake.

---

I had just finished listening to Who's Next on vinyl and had swiched over to my CD player for some vintage Cream when I felt my chair shaking. I looked at the lamp and it has one of those leaded glass shades on it and it was just vibrating. I thought the washing machine had gone out of balance or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnMichael

The Grado Sonata does passion and instrumental colors much better. Of course this is in comparison with the OM20. While I would consider the OM20 analytical I often thought of it as cold. The Statement Sonata bests any of my cartridges. At first I though the Grado sounded slow but then realized the timing of the music was more accurate. The way complex music is intertwined with counter melodies the Sonata presents it all as it should be. Nothing gets confused or bunched together.

---

Boy...thats some cart!

The Grado is one of the more interesting cartridges I have owned. I am curious if the cartridge has settled in or will it continue to change? The cartridge is sounding more neutral than I have ever heard from a Grado. The bass is strong and detailed. The midrange is beautiful. I love how piano and acoustic guitar sounds through the Grado. The high frequencies are detailed and not what I have heard from less expensive Grados.

I am waiting on the extended nut for the Rega tonarm. The only advantage of using one that I can think of is with the 2mm spacer I use with the Grado that central collar will better center the arm in the mounting hole. The collar extends up from the nut into the plinth and around the center pillar of the tonearm bass. I will recheck my overhang and offset after instalation.

My next purchase is an electronic stylus force gauge. My Shure is not as accurate as I would like. Since the Michell Technoweight locks to the end stub it is not easy to tweak the tracking force. The Shure will sometimes give me different readings at different times even though nothing has changed.

First day back from vacation and I am looking forward to being home and playing some vinyl.

Your experience is why I love this hobby. Its just really fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

Your experience is why I love this hobby. Its just really fun.

---

Hey Frenchie, I'm sort of having a brain cramp here. What are you using as a phono pre on the 7.1? I have been following JM's journey with his new Grado cartridge and it got me thinking about a new cart, as it has for you also. Now I'm wondering if my phono pre can handle a low output cart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington

Hey Frenchie, I'm sort of having a brain cramp here. What are you using as a phono pre on the 7.1? I have been following JM's journey with his new Grado cartridge and it got me thinking about a new cart, as it has for you also. Now I'm wondering if my phono pre can handle a low output cart.

---

Well right now I dont have a dedicated phono pre. And the SA-T1 does not have a phono stage. So I run the 7.1 into the Rotel preamp which has a mc/mm phono stage and then out into the SA-T1.

But the wonderful thing about Grado carts, is they make the exact same cart for MC and MM. So JM has the Grado Statement Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge which is MC...and you would need the Grado Reference Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge for MM.

Check out the link.

Grado Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge -specially selected species of mahogany; an intricate procedure of curing is done between production steps to achieve optimal sonic quality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

Well right now I dont have a dedicated phono pre. And the SA-T1 does not have a phono stage. So I run the 7.1 into the Rotel preamp which has a mc/mm phono stage and then out into the SA-T1.

But the wonderful thing about Grado carts, is they make the exact same cart for MC and MM. So JM has the Grado Statement Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge which is MC...and you would need the Grado Reference Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge for MM.

Check out the link.

Grado Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge -specially selected species of mahogany; an intricate procedure of curing is done between production steps to achieve optimal sonic quality.

---

I guess I was just a little confused because of the low output cart. that JM got and if I got one would my phono pre be able to handle it. I sent Pro-ject an E-mail to see what there opinion was but have yet to hear from them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington

I guess I was just a little confused because of the low output cart. that JM got and if I got one would my phono pre be able to handle it. I sent Pro-ject an E-mail to see what there opinion was but have yet to hear from them.

---

The Pro-Ject Phono Box SEII has an MC setting with 60 dB gain. That should match up well with the low-output Grado's output of 0.5 mV. However, the Grado specs say input impedance of 47k is recommended. The Phono Box SEII's impedance on the MC input goes up to only 220 Ohm.

Grado Labs | Sonata1 & Platinum1

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 02audionoob

The Pro-Ject Phono Box SEII has an MC setting with 60 dB gain. That should match up well with the low-output Grado's output of 0.5 mV. However, the Grado specs say input impedance of 47k is recommended. The Phono Box SEII's impedance on the MC input goes up to only 220 Ohm.

Grado Labs | Sonata1 & Platinum1

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

---

The Graham Slee Fanfare is only 470 ohms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnMichael

The Graham Slee Fanfare is only 470 ohms.

---

This is good to know. So that spec of 47k is apparently very non-critical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 02audionoob

The Pro-Ject Phono Box SEII has an MC setting with 60 dB gain. That should match up well with the low-output Grado's output of 0.5 mV. However, the Grado specs say input impedance of 47k is recommended. The Phono Box SEII's impedance on the MC input goes up to only 220 Ohm.

Grado Labs | Sonata1 & Platinum1

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

---

Could you not select 47K and then press the button for MC?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Could you not select 47K and then press the button for MC?

---

I think pushing the button for MC will rule out the option for 47k. Here's the page from the manual.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6198/...438673c6_z.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 02audionoob

I think pushing the button for MC will rule out the option for 47k. Here's the page from the manual.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6198/...438673c6_z.jpg

---

Keep in mind the Grado is a fixed coil cartridge so it is a low output MM type cartridge. Or as Grado refers to it as a flux bridger. Others may call it an induced magnet cartridge because the magnet is also fixed. Of course the term moving iron also applies.

I've been in contact with a fellow (Jamie) at Sumiko. He said I would have better results with a high output MC cart. He recommended leaving the switch in MM (40 db gain). He said that the MC setting (60 db gain) would probably overload the input and sound awful. Now the funny part. While I've been researching this the two carts that I was interested in on Audiogon, a Zu Audio Zu/DL-103 and a Sumiko Blue Point Special have both gone to "sale pending" oh well back to the drawing board.

I would agree that a high output MC cartridge (like 2 mV) would be too much output for the MC input's 60 dB gain. But 60 dB would be a good match for a low output cartridge with around 0.5 mV output, like the Grado. The key issue with the Grado would then be its recommended load. If the spec of "2" for its own resistance is correct, I can see why it wouldn't truly need the 47k listed. It seems like it could work with almost any MC setting on the SE II.

I'll have to poke around the interwebs and see what others have done.

Oh damn you Grado. I have only been listening to vinyl but today while preparing for work I turned the cd player back on. I wanted to hear some music I only had on cd. Yikes not the sound of vinyl. I hope it was due to the cd player not having been used since the arrival of the Sonata. I left the cd player on to warm up during the day. I am hoping it will sound better and if not time to covert my cd's to vinyl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Oh damn you Grado. I have only been listening to vinyl but today while preparing for work I turned the cd player back on. I wanted to hear some music I only had on cd. Yikes not the sound of vinyl. I hope it was due to the cd player not having been used since the arrival of the Sonata. I left the cd player on to warm up during the day. I am hoping it will sound better and if not time to covert my cd's to vinyl.

---

WOW!!! Keep me posted on this...and after you've listen can you kindly give us a small detail perspective on the difference in vinyl play back versus CD play back.

to me vinyl is more cohesive...fluid like in its presentation. with a more natural sound......

I've heard a great sounding Grado for $600. It was a moving iron. I bought a Benz MC 3 long ago and have stuck (very happily) with Benz cartridges ever since. I'm currently using a Benz Ruby 3. However, aside from the London moving iron cartridge (in a league of its own), Grado is making the best non-mc cartridges that I have heard.

There's Grado Signature TLZ, unused, listed on Craigslist here. Anyone have any thoughts on that one?