Funked the Rega

[JohnMichael]

Today the Funk Firm's Achroplat arrived. This platter will replace the Rega glass platter and Ringmat record mat. First impressions are improvements at all frequencies. The Achroplat is the same thickness as the glass platter and mat so no VTA adjustments needed.

First record I listened to was "For Duke" on M&K RealTime Records which I have listened to many time over the years. I was pleased with the tightness in the bass and definition. At one point I noticed the drums and how cohesive they sounded. I could visualize the drum kit and not just vague blurry strokes. Cello, plucked bass and electric bass are better defined and easier to follow when played softly in the mix.

Voices are natural and focused. More three dimensional and front and centered. Listening to Manhattan Transfer "Vocalise" you hear four people singing and the interplay of their voices. Before the voices would kind of blend together into a less distinct voice. Rickie Lee Jones voice is the best I have heard it listening to "Rickie Lee Jones". The sound is more alive, more exciting.

Cymbals, bells, triangles and high percussion are beautiful. It is very easy to hear the differences in cymbals. Much more air and extension to the highs.

As my system has improved and I hear higher levels of definition I find that I want to take the improvement higher. The things that I keep noticing greater improvements with each step up are the ones most important to me. The Achroplat has lifted the performance of the Rega several notches. Now it will be the SA 8001 gathering the dust.

I do have to say that the very white Achroplat between the black record and base does look like an Oreo cookie. I am not sure how to describe the feel and texture of the Achroplat but it works. Oh and thanks to Bernd for stearing me away from acrylic. Now I can think about a new motor.

[bobsticks]

Congrats John. I love reading your stuff when you get a new toy. Few do as much careful analysis and certainly few seem as grateful when something makes an impact. IMO, the definition of the spirit of an audiophile. Thanks for the great review and have fun.

I've posted in the analog forum more times today than I have in the rest of my time here, clearly something's amiss.

[JohnMichael]

Congrats John. I love reading your stuff when you get a new toy. Few do as much careful analysis and certainly few seem as grateful when something makes an impact. IMO, the definition of the spirit of an audiophile. Thanks for the great review and have fun.

I've posted in the analog forum more times today than I have in the rest of my time here, clearly something's amiss.

Sounds like someone needs a turntable.

[emaidel]

. The Achroplat has lifted the performance of the Rega several notches. Now it will be the SA 8001 gathering the dust.

.

You may, or may not, realize that by saying that, you've settled a discussion that started elsewhere on this site regarding the sound of LP's on a modern turntable/cartridge combo, vs. that of CD's and/or SACD's on the 8001. On the thread, "How much do you value your vinyl?" I stated that I prefer the sound of the 8001 to that of my turntable/cartridge combo (Dual CS-5000/Stanton Collector's Series CS-100). It's not a new combo, but one that I think is pretty good, though not as good as the combo you have.

I'm curious: do you have any LP and CD dulicates with which you can do an A/B,.and if you've already done such a comparison, what were your conclusions?

[JohnMichael]

You may, or may not, realize that by saying that, you've settled a discussion that started elsewhere on this site regarding the sound of LP's on a modern turntable/cartridge combo, vs. that of CD's and/or SACD's on the 8001. On the thread, "How much do you value your vinyl?" I stated that I prefer the sound of the 8001 to that of my turntable/cartridge combo (Dual CS-5000/Stanton Collector's Series CS-100). It's not a new combo, but one that I think is pretty good, though not as good as the combo you have.

I'm curious: do you have any LP and CD dulicates with which you can do an A/B,.and if you've already done such a comparison, what were your conclusions?

I also need to thank you emaidel for your review of the Achromat. I have not done comparisons yet as the Achroplat just arrived today and I am loathe to stop spinning vinyl. One thing I may do is record some selections from vinyl with the glass platter and Ringmat and same selections with the Achroplat. That might be an interesting comparison.

[Bernd]

.....result. The Achro stuff, from what I have heard at shows, really improves Rega TTs especially. I think there is a place for Acrylic platters, but I feel that the whole TT/arm combo needs to be designed from the ground up with that in mind. John, I can only agree with my friend bobsticks that it is a real joy to read your appreciation of the improvements. Indeed a sign of true understanding and evidence that the journey can indeed be fun and so it should be.
And yes, I think something is missing from bobsticks very fine system.
It's also very positive to see some decent activity concerning this dead format ,that we all love so much. Our good friend Swish on RR has just re-started his Vinyl journey. So hopefully he will get as much joy as the rest of us.
Enjoy.

Peace

[Gerard]

Hi Emaidel,
I have 2 albums, Sultans of Swing - Dire Straits & Babes in the wood - Mary Black, both in LP & CD. My CD player - Consonance CD120 Linear. Vinyl playback by Planar 3/new motor/Michell Techno Weight. Shure V15vx into modified Black Cube. A little bit about the CD120L, dislikes complex material, shines with sparse recordings, so I'll compare both with slower Mary Black's tracks and slower Dire Straits tracks. The Rega has the ability to extract more details, is fluid, more musical and natural. The CD120L, while a good performer, is a tad shy compared to the Rega. Simply put, the Rega has Mary Black polished and professional, whereas the CD120L has Mary Black in a practice session in a casual mood. Likewise for Dire Straits. The CD120L does have a heavier bottom end, but just loses out in clarity.
In another thread, TT's were mentioned to irritate with pops and crackles. I, too, faced this problem. And found that it is not always the LP causing it. Rather a lack of arm grounding ( Rega does not provide ). I installed the arm ground wire and now, all my good LP's are dead silent.
Hope this has given you food for thought.
Regards,
Gerard

[emaidel]

Hi Emaidel,
I have 2 albums, Sultans of Swing - Dire Straits & Babes in the wood - Mary Black, both in LP & CD. My CD player - Consonance CD120 Linear. Vinyl playback by Planar 3/new motor/Michell Techno Weight. Shure V15vx into modified Black Cube. A little bit about the CD120L, dislikes complex material, shines with sparse recordings, so I'll compare both with slower Mary Black's tracks and slower Dire Straits tracks. The Rega has the ability to extract more details, is fluid, more musical and natural. The CD120L, while a good performer, is a tad shy compared to the Rega. Simply put, the Rega has Mary Black polished and professional, whereas the CD120L has Mary Black in a practice session in a casual mood. Likewise for Dire Straits. The CD120L does have a heavier bottom end, but just loses out in clarity.
In another thread, TT's were mentioned to irritate with pops and crackles. I, too, faced this problem. And found that it is not always the LP causing it. Rather a lack of arm grounding ( Rega does not provide ). I installed the arm ground wire and now, all my good LP's are dead silent.
Hope this has given you food for thought.
Regards,
Gerard

A useful and fair comparison, though you seem to be a bit more critical of your CD player than most reviewers were. And how it compares to the Marantz SA-8001 is anyone's guess too.

[emaidel]

I readily accept the fact that my turntable/cartridge combination isn't quite state of the art, but it's pretty darn good nevertheless. It's also connected to a Parasound PPH-100 phono preamp and then into the "Aux" input on the Line-Drive PLD-1100 Parasound preampflifier.

I did a fairly intensive LP vs. CD A/B this afternoon, and thought I'd post my results. I have to state first, that all of these CD's are duplicates of LP's I've had for many, many years, and when I first bought some of them, I thought they sounded flat out awful. How things have changed....

The albums I used were:

Fleetwood Mac "Rumours"
Kenny Loggins "High Adventure"
Original cast recording (1969) of "Jesus Christ Superstar"
Alan Parsons "Eve"
Mannheim Steamroller's "Fresh Aire III" (the "Toccata" piece)
and finally, Brasil '66 "Foursider"

The first observation was that in each and every case, the CD sounded better. The difference wasn't always that obvious: sometimes it was very, very subtle and almost impossible to detect, and then, at others, it was nothing less than startling.

"Rumours" The LP is a Nautilus "Superdisc" that cost me a small fortune, and the CD is an ordinary, "redbook" CD. The differences between the two were very hard to tell, although there was a certain smoothness and lack of edge on the CD. I seriously doubt though, that If I walked into the room and was asked to identify which was playing, I probably couldn't.

"High Adventure" When I first bought this CD and compared it to the LP, I thought the CD sounded horrible: screechy, over bright and just plain horrible. Now, the advantage goes to the CD for the very same reasons as for the "Rumours" disc mentioned above, but the differences are a bit more apparent. And there are those, "Gee, I never heard that before" moments too!

"Jesus Christ Superstar" I've had this LP since 1969, and thought I'd actually wear it out back then as I played it so often. The surface noise is higher than I like, but otherwise, both records in the 2-record set are in pretty good shape. When I bought the CD sometime during the mid 90's, I thought it was one of the worst sounding CD's I'd ever heard, and an exceptionally bad transfer from vinyl to CD. It was lifeless and dull, and so awful sounding, that I just store it away, and refused to listen to it.

Today, on the Marantz SA-8001, the sound of the CD's is nothing less than a revelation. It's almost as if somewhere, someone managed to remaster the disc via the DSD process and restore all new life to it. Of course, nothing of the sort ever happened, and I can only attribute the 8001 for having some sort of "magical circuity" that has been able to capture the wonderful sound on these discs that nothing I've owned in the past came close to doing.

Alan Parson's "Eve." I'm a huge fan of Alan Parsons, but my wife isn't, so I have to be careful of the time I play any of the 14 or so discs of his that I own. "Eve" is the only one for which I still have the LP (I gave most of the others away when I bought the CD versions). The disc has an annoyingly high level of surface noise, ticks and pops (that have always been there), so there's no misunderstanding which (LP or CD) is playing. Other than the total silence on the CD, there's also, now. a tremendous improvement in dynamic range, almost to the point of the CD sounding like it's been played through a dbx dynamic range expander with their proprietary circuitry, "Impact Recovery." Best thing is that, while it sounds as if it's been improved with such a device, there are none of the customary drawbacks of such a signal processor (the characteristic "pumping and breathing").

Mannheim Steamroller's "Toccata." This CD is a sampler and has a series of cuts on it from numerous other Mannheim Steamroller discs, and, regrettably, all significantly shortened. That explains its low price of $9.95. In the past, the LP sounded better in every respect, but now, the CD is a good deal smoother, sweeter, and with a huge improvement in dynamic range and sonic impact.

Brasil '66 "Foursider." I've always been a huge fan of this group, ever since 1966 when I bought their first album. "Foursider" was released as a 2-record set in 1972, and as a single CD about 5 years ago. While hardly the sonic blockbuster Steamroller's "Toccata" is, it's a huge improvement over the sound of the very old recordings from which most of the samples in this collection originated. Cleaner, smoother, a big improvement in bass, and far more dynamics.

So, what does all of this prove? Well, it proves that, at least on my system, with the components I'm using, the Marantz SA-8001 outperforms my turntable/cartrdige combination, and by a considerable margin too. Would the same difference be there if I had a Rega P-3, a Benz moving coil cartridge and a snazzy step-up transformer? Frankly, I just don't know. I suspect there would be far less of a difference, and in the case of the "Rumours" LP at least, the vinyl rig would sound a good deal better, but I wonder about the rest.

So, now all anyone has to do is send me a free Rega P-3, the Benz Gold MC cartridge and a suitable step up transformer. And don't forget to include an Achroplat too! (Forgot to mention that my turntable has an Achromat platter mat on it, and it makes a very noticeable improvement over the standard rubber mat.)

[JohnMichael]

I have been busy listening to vinyl and have not done any comparisons. As much as I enjoy the SA8001 it still lags behind vinyl in some important ways for me. Sure I like the convenience of the silver disc and the lack of crackle and pop. Musical flow and soundstaging are more natural with vinyl. Instrumental textures and recognizing the unique sounds of instruments are more obvious with vinyl. I am sure a top tier cd player might come closer but for me in musical pleasure analog beats digital in my system with my current equipment.

I did spend a lot of time listening to the SA8001 and was impressed by the reproduction of standard cd's. I also enjoy SACD's. The SA8001 is an excellent player for the money. I will enjoy it for many a year. I must say as good as it is given the time to relax and focus on music it will be vinyl every time.

[emaidel]

I did spend a lot of time listening to the SA8001 and was impressed by the reproduction of standard cd's. I also enjoy SACD's. The SA8001 is an excellent player for the money. I will enjoy it for many a year. I must say as good as it is given the time to relax and focus on music it will be vinyl every time.

That pretty much says it all. I guess, when money allows, my next upgrade will be my turntable/cartridge, but that will be a long time from now. It all but took an act from God to have my wife go along with the purchase of the 8001, but to now go and spend upwards of a grand for a turntable, cartridge and step up transformer is a "whole nutha' game."

[Gerard]

Emaidel, hang on to your TT. Coming back to the Rega, don't consider the P3. P2 is the better choice. Let's put it this way. P3's arm has this spiral spring connected to a dial assembly. This actually degrade the sonic quality. JM is wise to have realised this and picked the P2. Seriously speaking, with the spring attached, I was put off listening to vinyl. CD's sounded better. And then there's this Rega's mat. Does not help matters either, everything's messed up. I'm now using a Linn mat, riding on top of a thin foam mat. I also discarded the spiral spring. Then the Rega started to sing.
I'm not trying to put you off Rega, just make a note that it may not necessarily sing out of the box, as many have expected.
Regards,
Gerard

[jrhymeammo]

Kudos to JM for distingushing a difference between Improved Sound vs. Different Sound.

[JohnMichael]

I had to break out the Achroplat again. I was curious how things would sound with the Grado Sonata and the Moon 110LP since this has been the best analog combo I have had. I remember liking it with the Benz MC Gold but changed my mind when listening to the AT F7.

Last night I put it back in use. So far so good but I will listen longer before I comment further.

[JohnMichael]

Part of what has me interested in platters again is the Groove Tracer Delrin platter. Clearaudio and SOTA use Delrin platters. The claim is that since it is made from the same material as the record it interfaces well. Of course the same claims were made for the Achroplat.

The sound from spinning vinyl last night was tighter more focused bass and a more detailed and layered midrange. I have not listened to enough records to comment on the highs. The upper frequencies sound brighter but not hard like with the AT F7. Of course a change in IC's might help.

I do not know if I will try a Groove Tracer Delrin platter. I did not buy their subplatter and when I called about the acrylic platter he was not sure about the fit. I thought if it fit the Rega glass platter my DeepGroove subplatter should fit.

So for now I will be listening to the Funk Firm Achroplat again. I need to decide if this is better than the Rega glass and Ringmat combination with the Grado Sonata/Moon 110LP.

[Mash]

Transmissivity of stylus tracing noise into the platter ?

Which implies transmissivity of floor or table noise that got into the platter then being transmitted into the record ?

How about a peek at "Noise & Vibration Control", Leo Beranek, graph on pg 412 for starters....

Or- better record to platter isolation?

Stylus tracing 'noise' from the record groove would seem to be very low.

[JohnMichael]

Transmissivity of stylus tracing noise into the platter ?

Which implies transmissivity of floor or table noise that got into the platter then being transmitted into the record ?

How about a peek at "Noise & Vibration Control", Leo Beranek, graph on pg 412 for starters....

Or- better record to platter isolation?

Stylus tracing 'noise' from the record groove would seem to be very low.

Uh really I am just trying to have fun. There really is no master plan. Many years ago I bought the Rega Planar 2 for $450. A nice sounding budget tables with some excellent design. Then I began to discover aftermarket parts to improve the performance. I was hooked and wanted to see how much improvement various tweaks would offer.

Lately my interest has returned to platters after reading on several sites about Delrin. Of course seeing Clearaudio switch from acrylic to Delrin has furthered my interest. I read one review who said if you wanted to use acrylic on a Rega you will lose the ecitement and end up with a table sounding like a VPI. This new platter will probably be my last tweak since I cannot imagine anything else I can do for the table. Once I have taken it as far as it can go I will need to buy a new ttable.

Speaking of tweaks I need to get back to my latest. I had posted before about an edge in the high frequencies with the Achroplat. I use the Deepgroove subplatter but the Groove Tracer subplatter has three dots on it that look like rubber. Then I began to think if the Achroplat was designed with the idea of it resting on the Rega plastic subplatter? The Achroplat directly on the metal subplatter may not be the best idea. I bought some rubber bumpers used to protect tabletops from scratches. I placed 4 on the subplatter and then mounted the Achroplat. Whoops too tall and then I remembered thin corners on my Sanus Euro stands so I robbed some of them and put those on the subplatter.

Now I have changed the VTA a little and created a better interface than the Achroplat sitting directly on the Deepgroove subplatter. The hard edge of the highs seems to be gone. Of course I cannot say if it was the change in VTA or the damping between platter and subplatter. Interesting tweak to raise the platter instead of the arm for VTA. Ringmat had a system where they supplied discs with their mat to raise the record on the platter to tweak VTA.

Yes I have fun with my Rega.

[02audionoob]

I think the black dots on the GrooveTracer subplatter are made of Delrin. I can't remember where I got that impression, though.

[Mash]

VTA and damping/isolation introduced between the platter & subplatter...

Reset the VTA to original and then you will have a better idea. If the cart had been flat w/r/t the record then a mirror may help.

There are many types, shapes, and durometer of 'rubber' you could try but I would answer the VTA question first.

[JohnMichael]

There is no VTA adjustment on Rega arms. Any VTA is adjusted using spacers. I have spent the day listening to many records and the table is sounding it's best. I guess it does not matter why it is sounding so good since I am leaving it this way. Now if I were to change cartridges more experimentation might be needed.

I may have reached the ttables peak.

[JohnMichael]

I should mention that my tonearm is directly on the plinth without the use of spacers. To the best of my knowledge all the aftermarket VTA adjusters would raise the arm a little when installed. I cannot due the tail down method unless I countersunk the hole.

[02audionoob]

You must have the world's most-upgraded Planar 2. Have you considered the white belt? It actually made a bit of a difference for me.

[JohnMichael]

You must have the world's most-upgraded Planar 2. Have you considered the white belt? It actually made a bit of a difference for me.

I just took the white belt off. When I was tweaking I realized the belt was stretched. I bought it when they were first announced so I had it on the table for about 4 years. I had a belt with a few months use when I received the white belt and that is what I am using now. When I order the new motor I am going to order a new white belt.

[frenchmon]

I have seen some guys ordering white belts for Music Hall tables. So whats the deal with white belts?

[JohnMichael]

I have seen some guys ordering white belts for Music Hall tables. So whats the deal with white belts?

The Rega white belt is more precisely made and with purer materials. Also the belt is said to last longer.