Funked the Rega

[JohnMichael]

Today the Funk Firm's Achroplat arrived. This platter will replace the Rega glass platter and Ringmat record mat. First impressions are improvements at all frequencies. The Achroplat is the same thickness as the glass platter and mat so no VTA adjustments needed.

First record I listened to was "For Duke" on M&K RealTime Records which I have listened to many time over the years. I was pleased with the tightness in the bass and definition. At one point I noticed the drums and how cohesive they sounded. I could visualize the drum kit and not just vague blurry strokes. Cello, plucked bass and electric bass are better defined and easier to follow when played softly in the mix.

Voices are natural and focused. More three dimensional and front and centered. Listening to Manhattan Transfer "Vocalise" you hear four people singing and the interplay of their voices. Before the voices would kind of blend together into a less distinct voice. Rickie Lee Jones voice is the best I have heard it listening to "Rickie Lee Jones". The sound is more alive, more exciting.

Cymbals, bells, triangles and high percussion are beautiful. It is very easy to hear the differences in cymbals. Much more air and extension to the highs.

As my system has improved and I hear higher levels of definition I find that I want to take the improvement higher. The things that I keep noticing greater improvements with each step up are the ones most important to me. The Achroplat has lifted the performance of the Rega several notches. Now it will be the SA 8001 gathering the dust.

I do have to say that the very white Achroplat between the black record and base does look like an Oreo cookie. I am not sure how to describe the feel and texture of the Achroplat but it works. Oh and thanks to Bernd for stearing me away from acrylic. Now I can think about a new motor.

[bobsticks]

Congrats John. I love reading your stuff when you get a new toy. Few do as much careful analysis and certainly few seem as grateful when something makes an impact. IMO, the definition of the spirit of an audiophile. Thanks for the great review and have fun.

I've posted in the analog forum more times today than I have in the rest of my time here, clearly something's amiss.

[emaidel]

. The Achroplat has lifted the performance of the Rega several notches. Now it will be the SA 8001 gathering the dust.

.

You may, or may not, realize that by saying that, you've settled a discussion that started elsewhere on this site regarding the sound of LP's on a modern turntable/cartridge combo, vs. that of CD's and/or SACD's on the 8001. On the thread, "How much do you value your vinyl?" I stated that I prefer the sound of the 8001 to that of my turntable/cartridge combo (Dual CS-5000/Stanton Collector's Series CS-100). It's not a new combo, but one that I think is pretty good, though not as good as the combo you have.

I'm curious: do you have any LP and CD dulicates with which you can do an A/B,.and if you've already done such a comparison, what were your conclusions?

[JohnMichael]

Congrats John. I love reading your stuff when you get a new toy. Few do as much careful analysis and certainly few seem as grateful when something makes an impact. IMO, the definition of the spirit of an audiophile. Thanks for the great review and have fun.

I've posted in the analog forum more times today than I have in the rest of my time here, clearly something's amiss.

Sounds like someone needs a turntable.

[JohnMichael]

You may, or may not, realize that by saying that, you've settled a discussion that started elsewhere on this site regarding the sound of LP's on a modern turntable/cartridge combo, vs. that of CD's and/or SACD's on the 8001. On the thread, "How much do you value your vinyl?" I stated that I prefer the sound of the 8001 to that of my turntable/cartridge combo (Dual CS-5000/Stanton Collector's Series CS-100). It's not a new combo, but one that I think is pretty good, though not as good as the combo you have.

I'm curious: do you have any LP and CD dulicates with which you can do an A/B,.and if you've already done such a comparison, what were your conclusions?

I also need to thank you emaidel for your review of the Achromat. I have not done comparisons yet as the Achroplat just arrived today and I am loathe to stop spinning vinyl. One thing I may do is record some selections from vinyl with the glass platter and Ringmat and same selections with the Achroplat. That might be an interesting comparison.

[Bernd]

.....result. The Achro stuff, from what I have heard at shows, really improves Rega TTs especially. I think there is a place for Acrylic platters, but I feel that the whole TT/arm combo needs to be designed from the ground up with that in mind. John, I can only agree with my friend bobsticks that it is a real joy to read your appreciation of the improvements. Indeed a sign of true understanding and evidence that the journey can indeed be fun and so it should be.
And yes, I think something is missing from bobsticks very fine system.
It's also very positive to see some decent activity concerning this dead format ,that we all love so much. Our good friend Swish on RR has just re-started his Vinyl journey. So hopefully he will get as much joy as the rest of us.
Enjoy.

Peace

[Gerard]

Hi Emaidel,
I have 2 albums, Sultans of Swing - Dire Straits & Babes in the wood - Mary Black, both in LP & CD. My CD player - Consonance CD120 Linear. Vinyl playback by Planar 3/new motor/Michell Techno Weight. Shure V15vx into modified Black Cube. A little bit about the CD120L, dislikes complex material, shines with sparse recordings, so I'll compare both with slower Mary Black's tracks and slower Dire Straits tracks. The Rega has the ability to extract more details, is fluid, more musical and natural. The CD120L, while a good performer, is a tad shy compared to the Rega. Simply put, the Rega has Mary Black polished and professional, whereas the CD120L has Mary Black in a practice session in a casual mood. Likewise for Dire Straits. The CD120L does have a heavier bottom end, but just loses out in clarity.
In another thread, TT's were mentioned to irritate with pops and crackles. I, too, faced this problem. And found that it is not always the LP causing it. Rather a lack of arm grounding ( Rega does not provide ). I installed the arm ground wire and now, all my good LP's are dead silent.
Hope this has given you food for thought.
Regards,
Gerard

[emaidel]

Hi Emaidel,
I have 2 albums, Sultans of Swing - Dire Straits & Babes in the wood - Mary Black, both in LP & CD. My CD player - Consonance CD120 Linear. Vinyl playback by Planar 3/new motor/Michell Techno Weight. Shure V15vx into modified Black Cube. A little bit about the CD120L, dislikes complex material, shines with sparse recordings, so I'll compare both with slower Mary Black's tracks and slower Dire Straits tracks. The Rega has the ability to extract more details, is fluid, more musical and natural. The CD120L, while a good performer, is a tad shy compared to the Rega. Simply put, the Rega has Mary Black polished and professional, whereas the CD120L has Mary Black in a practice session in a casual mood. Likewise for Dire Straits. The CD120L does have a heavier bottom end, but just loses out in clarity.
In another thread, TT's were mentioned to irritate with pops and crackles. I, too, faced this problem. And found that it is not always the LP causing it. Rather a lack of arm grounding ( Rega does not provide ). I installed the arm ground wire and now, all my good LP's are dead silent.
Hope this has given you food for thought.
Regards,
Gerard

A useful and fair comparison, though you seem to be a bit more critical of your CD player than most reviewers were. And how it compares to the Marantz SA-8001 is anyone's guess too.

[emaidel]

I readily accept the fact that my turntable/cartridge combination isn't quite state of the art, but it's pretty darn good nevertheless. It's also connected to a Parasound PPH-100 phono preamp and then into the "Aux" input on the Line-Drive PLD-1100 Parasound preampflifier.

I did a fairly intensive LP vs. CD A/B this afternoon, and thought I'd post my results. I have to state first, that all of these CD's are duplicates of LP's I've had for many, many years, and when I first bought some of them, I thought they sounded flat out awful. How things have changed....

The albums I used were:

Fleetwood Mac "Rumours"
Kenny Loggins "High Adventure"
Original cast recording (1969) of "Jesus Christ Superstar"
Alan Parsons "Eve"
Mannheim Steamroller's "Fresh Aire III" (the "Toccata" piece)
and finally, Brasil '66 "Foursider"

The first observation was that in each and every case, the CD sounded better. The difference wasn't always that obvious: sometimes it was very, very subtle and almost impossible to detect, and then, at others, it was nothing less than startling.

"Rumours" The LP is a Nautilus "Superdisc" that cost me a small fortune, and the CD is an ordinary, "redbook" CD. The differences between the two were very hard to tell, although there was a certain smoothness and lack of edge on the CD. I seriously doubt though, that If I walked into the room and was asked to identify which was playing, I probably couldn't.

"High Adventure" When I first bought this CD and compared it to the LP, I thought the CD sounded horrible: screechy, over bright and just plain horrible. Now, the advantage goes to the CD for the very same reasons as for the "Rumours" disc mentioned above, but the differences are a bit more apparent. And there are those, "Gee, I never heard that before" moments too!

"Jesus Christ Superstar" I've had this LP since 1969, and thought I'd actually wear it out back then as I played it so often. The surface noise is higher than I like, but otherwise, both records in the 2-record set are in pretty good shape. When I bought the CD sometime during the mid 90's, I thought it was one of the worst sounding CD's I'd ever heard, and an exceptionally bad transfer from vinyl to CD. It was lifeless and dull, and so awful sounding, that I just store it away, and refused to listen to it.

Today, on the Marantz SA-8001, the sound of the CD's is nothing less than a revelation. It's almost as if somewhere, someone managed to remaster the disc via the DSD process and restore all new life to it. Of course, nothing of the sort ever happened, and I can only attribute the 8001 for having some sort of "magical circuity" that has been able to capture the wonderful sound on these discs that nothing I've owned in the past came close to doing.

Alan Parson's "Eve." I'm a huge fan of Alan Parsons, but my wife isn't, so I have to be careful of the time I play any of the 14 or so discs of his that I own. "Eve" is the only one for which I still have the LP (I gave most of the others away when I bought the CD versions). The disc has an annoyingly high level of surface noise, ticks and pops (that have always been there), so there's no misunderstanding which (LP or CD) is playing. Other than the total silence on the CD, there's also, now. a tremendous improvement in dynamic range, almost to the point of the CD sounding like it's been played through a dbx dynamic range expander with their proprietary circuitry, "Impact Recovery." Best thing is that, while it sounds as if it's been improved with such a device, there are none of the customary drawbacks of such a signal processor (the characteristic "pumping and breathing").

Mannheim Steamroller's "Toccata." This CD is a sampler and has a series of cuts on it from numerous other Mannheim Steamroller discs, and, regrettably, all significantly shortened. That explains its low price of $9.95. In the past, the LP sounded better in every respect, but now, the CD is a good deal smoother, sweeter, and with a huge improvement in dynamic range and sonic impact.

Brasil '66 "Foursider." I've always been a huge fan of this group, ever since 1966 when I bought their first album. "Foursider" was released as a 2-record set in 1972, and as a single CD about 5 years ago. While hardly the sonic blockbuster Steamroller's "Toccata" is, it's a huge improvement over the sound of the very old recordings from which most of the samples in this collection originated. Cleaner, smoother, a big improvement in bass, and far more dynamics.

So, what does all of this prove? Well, it proves that, at least on my system, with the components I'm using, the Marantz SA-8001 outperforms my turntable/cartrdige combination, and by a considerable margin too. Would the same difference be there if I had a Rega P-3, a Benz moving coil cartridge and a snazzy step-up transformer? Frankly, I just don't know. I suspect there would be far less of a difference, and in the case of the "Rumours" LP at least, the vinyl rig would sound a good deal better, but I wonder about the rest.

So, now all anyone has to do is send me a free Rega P-3, the Benz Gold MC cartridge and a suitable step up transformer. And don't forget to include an Achroplat too! (Forgot to mention that my turntable has an Achromat platter mat on it, and it makes a very noticeable improvement over the standard rubber mat.)

[JohnMichael]

I have been busy listening to vinyl and have not done any comparisons. As much as I enjoy the SA8001 it still lags behind vinyl in some important ways for me. Sure I like the convenience of the silver disc and the lack of crackle and pop. Musical flow and soundstaging are more natural with vinyl. Instrumental textures and recognizing the unique sounds of instruments are more obvious with vinyl. I am sure a top tier cd player might come closer but for me in musical pleasure analog beats digital in my system with my current equipment.

I did spend a lot of time listening to the SA8001 and was impressed by the reproduction of standard cd's. I also enjoy SACD's. The SA8001 is an excellent player for the money. I will enjoy it for many a year. I must say as good as it is given the time to relax and focus on music it will be vinyl every time.

[emaidel]

I did spend a lot of time listening to the SA8001 and was impressed by the reproduction of standard cd's. I also enjoy SACD's. The SA8001 is an excellent player for the money. I will enjoy it for many a year. I must say as good as it is given the time to relax and focus on music it will be vinyl every time.

That pretty much says it all. I guess, when money allows, my next upgrade will be my turntable/cartridge, but that will be a long time from now. It all but took an act from God to have my wife go along with the purchase of the 8001, but to now go and spend upwards of a grand for a turntable, cartridge and step up transformer is a "whole nutha' game."

[JohnMichael]

That pretty much says it all. I guess, when money allows, my next upgrade will be my turntable/cartridge, but that will be a long time from now. It all but took an act from God to have my wife go along with the purchase of the 8001, but to now go and spend upwards of a grand for a turntable, cartridge and step up transformer is a "whole nutha' game."

Emaidel I think your turntable is a good one. I would think about a cartridge before I would consider anything else. Also even more important is proper alignment of the cartridge in the arm. What do you use when you install a cartridge?

[emaidel]

Emaidel I think your turntable is a good one. I would think about a cartridge before I would consider anything else. Also even more important is proper alignment of the cartridge in the arm. What do you use when you install a cartridge?

When I received my CS-5000, it came with a cardboard overhang adjustment that the seller had very carefully packaged so as not to get bent. For the life of me, I've never beeen able to figure out how to use it! Fortunately, he included the original instruction manual that has a cutout overhang adjustment on its back page, and I used that.

Since the turntable came with a Shure V/15 Type V mxr, I tried that out first. I thought it was a pleasasnt enough sounding cartridge, but a little too "polite" and "genteel." I installed my Stanton Collector's Series CS-100 (essentially, a hand-tweaked upgrade of the 881-S MK II) and greatly preferred it: a lot more "bite" to the music, and an overall liveliness I found totally lacking in the Type V.

Most people at this site (and others) never heard a CS-100, and that's too bad - it's really a wonderful cartridge, but not, as Walter Stanton believed to his dying day, "infinitely better than any moving coil could ever possibly be." Walter steadfastly believed that the moving coil design was inherently inferior to the moving magnet design, despite the fact that audiophiles worldwide disagreed. I don't know whether or not this was a belief he initiated himself, or was one that was a result of the constant flow of disinformation from the circle of "yes-men" he surrounded himself with. After all, the company's name was "Stanton Magnetics."

[JohnMichael]

When I received my CS-5000, it came with a cardboard overhang adjustment that the seller had very carefully packaged so as not to get bent. For the life of me, I've never beeen able to figure out how to use it! Fortunately, he included the original instruction manual that has a cutout overhang adjustment on its back page, and I used that.

Since the turntable came with a Shure V/15 Type V mxr, I tried that out first. I thought it was a pleasasnt enough sounding cartridge, but a little too "polite" and "genteel." I installed my Stanton Collector's Series CS-100 (essentially, a hand-tweaked upgrade of the 881-S MK II) and greatly preferred it: a lot more "bite" to the music, and an overall liveliness I found totally lacking in the Type V.

Most people at this site (and others) never heard a CS-100, and that's too bad - it's really a wonderful cartridge, but not, as Walter Stanton believed to his dying day, "infinitely better than any moving coil could ever possibly be." Walter steadfastly believed that the moving coil design was inherently inferior to the moving magnet design, despite the fact that audiophiles worldwide disagreed. I don't know whether or not this was a belief he initiated himself, or was one that was a result of the constant flow of disinformation from the circle of "yes-men" he surrounded himself with. After all, the company's name was "Stanton Magnetics."

Try the Mobile Fidelity Geo-Disc to align your cartridge. At a cost of $49.95 it is a very accurate alingment tool. You point the sight line at the tonearms pivot point and then place the cartridge within the grid with the stylus in the dimple. Then move the body of the cart until it is parallel to the lines of the grid. You are finished and have accurate alignment.
I have had mine for over 20 years and it works on any table with equal success.

[JohnMichael]

Emaidel I had another thought regarding your turntable. On the Dual's they have a dial using a spring to set tracking force. Springs can stretch and I was wondering if you ever checked your tracking force with a stylus force guage such as the Shure SFG2. One of the reasons I bought the Planar 2 is it uses the RB 250 arm that does not use the spring downforce. Another idea is to set the downforce dial below zero and set the tracking force with a stylus guage and using only the counterweight.

Checking the downforce with the stylus guage or by passing it all together might improve your sound even further. I even read once where one person set their tracking force half with the counterweight and added enough of the spring downforce to reach the tracking force.

The Shure SFG2 costs about $25

[emaidel]

Try the Mobile Fidelity Geo-Disc to align your cartridge. At a cost of $49.95 it is a very accurate alingment tool. You point the sight line at the tonearms pivot point and then place the cartridge within the grid with the stylus in the dimple. Then move the body of the cart until it is parallel to the lines of the grid. You are finished and have accurate alignment.
I have had mine for over 20 years and it works on any table with equal success.

Thanks for the info and advice. I'll have to get one of those.

[emaidel]

I was wondering if you ever checked your tracking force with a stylus force guage such as the Shure SFG2.
The Shure SFG2 costs about $25

Actually, I still own the original stylus pressure guage that came with my AR turntable that I purchased way, way back in '1964 and it's still a deadly accurate device. I haven't used it to check on stylus pressure, but may have a problem doing so with the 5000: the only time the arm lowers onto the record surface is after the quartz locking kicks in, which occurs only while the platter is spinning. Otherwise, the arm remains suspended up from the record's surface. This is an irritating feature of the turntable, for example, as when using a carbon fibre brush to clean a record, after the arm has landed on the record's surface, causes the speed to slow down ever so slightly, and the arm lifts and waits for the quartz locking to kick in again.

[JohnMichael]

Actually, I still own the original stylus pressure guage that came with my AR turntable that I purchased way, way back in '1964 and it's still a deadly accurate device. I haven't used it to check on stylus pressure, but may have a problem doing so with the 5000: the only time the arm lowers onto the record surface is after the quartz locking kicks in, which occurs only while the platter is spinning. Otherwise, the arm remains suspended up from the record's surface. This is an irritating feature of the turntable, for example, as when using a carbon fibre brush to clean a record, after the arm has landed on the record's surface, causes the speed to slow down ever so slightly, and the arm lifts and waits for the quartz locking to kick in again.

Here is a trick from the days of owning a B&O turntable. Once the arm is moving to the record and lowers down pull the plug. If there is no power the platter will stop spinning and your arm should be free to measure.

[emaidel]

Here is a trick from the days of owning a B&O turntable. Once the arm is moving to the record and lowers down pull the plug. If there is no power the platter will stop spinning and your arm should be free to measure.

I'll give that a try. funny - that's precisely what I had to do to verify the settings on my Denon DP-62L, and I never even thought about doing it on the 5000.. When testing the Denon, I found the rotary dial on the back to be spot on.

If I've ever been suspicious of the dialed-in setting on a tonearm, I've always veered towards a heavier tracking weight as opposed to one that was too light. As long as the cantilever didn't collapse, or the cartridge body rub along the record surface, there was little risk of severe record damage. Tracking too lightly, on the other hand, was tantamount to disaster when playing a heavily modulated record, as the stylus could easily just shave off the undulations of the groove wall, instead of tracing them accurately.

Too light a tracking force was to records what an underpowered amplifier - when overdriven - was to many a tweeter.

[Gerard]

Emaidel, hang on to your TT. Coming back to the Rega, don't consider the P3. P2 is the better choice. Let's put it this way. P3's arm has this spiral spring connected to a dial assembly. This actually degrade the sonic quality. JM is wise to have realised this and picked the P2. Seriously speaking, with the spring attached, I was put off listening to vinyl. CD's sounded better. And then there's this Rega's mat. Does not help matters either, everything's messed up. I'm now using a Linn mat, riding on top of a thin foam mat. I also discarded the spiral spring. Then the Rega started to sing.
I'm not trying to put you off Rega, just make a note that it may not necessarily sing out of the box, as many have expected.
Regards,
Gerard

[emaidel]

Here is a trick from the days of owning a B&O turntable. Once the arm is moving to the record and lowers down pull the plug. If there is no power the platter will stop spinning and your arm should be free to measure.

I just tried that and guess what? It doesn't work! The instant the power cord is disconnected, the tonearm lifts! So, I'll just have to trust the setting, and as I've heard no evidence of mistracking, the cantilever isn't collapsed and the cartridge body isn't rubbing against the record's surface, I guess it's pretty accurate as is.

[JohnMichael]

When I first started using the Achroplat I was enjoying all the sonic benefits. Slowly over time I began to find the music less involving. Since I was switching between phono-preamps I thought I would try the glass platter to remind myself of how things sounded with it. The glass platter is much heavier than the Achroplat and sure enough what I noticed was improvement in pace and timing with the glass platter. The other sonic improvements were nice but without pace and timing the air guitar never gets played. My best guess is that the lighter platter did not keep the speed as stable or since the motor had a lighter load it was turning faster. The glass is back on and Kenny Wayne Shepherd "10 Days Out Blues From The Backroads" is sounding very good and my air guitar is getting a workout.

[jrhymeammo]

Kudos to JM for distingushing a difference between Improved Sound vs. Different Sound.

[JohnMichael]

I had to break out the Achroplat again. I was curious how things would sound with the Grado Sonata and the Moon 110LP since this has been the best analog combo I have had. I remember liking it with the Benz MC Gold but changed my mind when listening to the AT F7.

Last night I put it back in use. So far so good but I will listen longer before I comment further.

[JohnMichael]

Part of what has me interested in platters again is the Groove Tracer Delrin platter. Clearaudio and SOTA use Delrin platters. The claim is that since it is made from the same material as the record it interfaces well. Of course the same claims were made for the Achroplat.

The sound from spinning vinyl last night was tighter more focused bass and a more detailed and layered midrange. I have not listened to enough records to comment on the highs. The upper frequencies sound brighter but not hard like with the AT F7. Of course a change in IC's might help.

I do not know if I will try a Groove Tracer Delrin platter. I did not buy their subplatter and when I called about the acrylic platter he was not sure about the fit. I thought if it fit the Rega glass platter my DeepGroove subplatter should fit.

So for now I will be listening to the Funk Firm Achroplat again. I need to decide if this is better than the Rega glass and Ringmat combination with the Grado Sonata/Moon 110LP.