Another starter TT thread...

[oldskoolboarder]

Turntable newbie looking to get into vinyl. My only experience is w/ my DJ buddies and their SL1200's.

I'm not looking to spend more than $200 to $300. I like the idea of the Rega P3 but not ready to spend that kind of coin yet. I have a couple of questions and requests for opinions on choices.

1) Curved arm vs. straight arm. I've seen some mention of this on various threads but what difference does it make?

2) As a starter TT, what difference does it really make if I get a DJ table?

3) Any thoughts on the list of TT's below?

Stanton STR8-30 Direct Drive Turntable
Pro-Ject Debut III w/ ORTOFON OM-5 MM CARTRIDGE
Music Hall- MMF-2.1 Turntable w/ Tracker MM cart
Music Hall Goldring GR-1 Turntable with RB-250 arm and Electra Phono Cartridge

4) I know the Stanton is the half the cost of the others, but am I really going to notice that big of a difference as a newbie?

5) Can someone explain the differences btw the MMF2.1 and GR-1?

Thanks for the help.

[Shwamdoo]

I can kinda answer the last question. The MMF 2.1 is a turntable made entirly by Music Hall. The GR-1 is made by Goldring. The GR-1 is outfitted with Rega parts and is essentialy a Rega table. However, the plinth has been changed. As far as performance goes, I haven't heard the two yet. I'm scheduled to hear a GR-2 this week at my uncle's friend's house and the Music Hall sometime in the near future.

Good luck, you're in the same boat as me. At least its not sinking...

[oldskoolboarder]

I can kinda answer the last question. The MMF 2.1 is a turntable made entirly by Music Hall. The GR-1 is made by Goldring. The GR-1 is outfitted with Rega parts and is essentialy a Rega table. However, the plinth has been changed. As far as performance goes, I haven't heard the two yet. I'm scheduled to hear a GR-2 this week at my uncle's friend's house and the Music Hall sometime in the near future.

Good luck, you're in the same boat as me. At least its not sinking...

Cool. They're about the same price but it seems that the GR-1 has some better components, at least that's my impression spec-wise.

[dean_martin]

The Music Hall 2.1 is very similar to the Pro-Ject 1.2 which I have. When I had to decide between the two, I chose the Pro-Ject due to its slightly better build quality (even though the cart that came with the Music Hall was supposedly better than the Pro-Ject's - I figured I would upgrade from either entry-level cart anyhow).

The GR-1 may be based on the Rega P2. NAD's 533 table is also based on the Rega P2. IMO, the things to consider among the Pro-Ject, MMF2.1 and GR-1 are their tonearms and whether they have fixed interconnect cables or inputs that allow you to change out cables. The Rega RB250 is a well-respected tonearm and a re-badged version might come with the GR-1 table. I like the tonearm on my Pro-Ject, but I'm not sure whether the Debut has the same arm or a lower-end model.

I'm not sure about straight vs. curved arms. I've observed that most vintage tables came with curved arms. Today's tables for home use are more likely to come with straight arms. DJ tables appear to continue to use curved arms. I do know that most if not all the high-end, ultra-expensive audiophile arms being produced today are straight, e.g., Grahams, SMEs, etc.

[oldskoolboarder]

The Music Hall 2.1 is very similar to the Pro-Ject 1.2 which I have. When I had to decide between the two, I chose the Pro-Ject due to its slightly better build quality (even though the cart that came with the Music Hall was supposedly better than the Pro-Ject's - I figured I would upgrade from either entry-level cart anyhow).

The GR-1 may be based on the Rega P2. NAD's 533 table is also based on the Rega P2. IMO, the things to consider among the Pro-Ject, MMF2.1 and GR-1 are their tonearms and whether they have fixed interconnect cables or inputs that allow you to change out cables. The Rega RB250 is a well-respected tonearm and a re-badged version might come with the GR-1 table. I like the tonearm on my Pro-Ject, but I'm not sure whether the Debut has the same arm or a lower-end model.

I'm not sure about straight vs. curved arms. I've observed that most vintage tables came with curved arms. Today's tables for home use are more likely to come with straight arms. DJ tables appear to continue to use curved arms. I do know that most if not all the high-end, ultra-expensive audiophile arms being produced today are straight, e.g., Grahams, SMEs, etc.

Thanks. I liked the Project Debut w/ the red table but I'm trying to avoid buying it stricly for looks since this will be placed in a cabinet to protect it from kids anyways. Apparnetly, the GR-1 is basically a Rega Planar 2 with a different brand name and comes with the RB250 arm.

[ericl]

whattup OldSkool,

If i was in your position, I would look for a nice condition used SL1200 like your DJ buddies. If you can find one that hasn't been DJ'd upon, great.

I've used a few of these as well as a Music Hall MMF-5, an Ariston RD-40, Linn LP12 and am now using a Thorens 126mk2. I feel the Technics is a truly solid table. Maybe it will not going to give you that last inch of refinement, but it plays music reliably and without fuss. They are bulletproof, easy to use, and sound good.

The easy ergonomics and quartz speed control make it easy to listen to a lot of records. It gets up to speed very fast so you don't have to wait around for it to play records, unlike belt drives, which take seemingly forever. When using a Technics i always end up listening to more records, for this reason.

Another thing about inexpensive belt drives that bothers me is that you never know if your table is truly running at the right speed. I always had a hunch my Music Hall was running a bit slow but never had anyway to tell short of purchasing some expensive doo-dad.

Match it with an inexpensive Grado cart and you are ready to go. Technics also have excellent resale value.

good luck,
Eric

[dean_martin]

Apparnetly, the GR-1 is basically a Rega Planar 2 with a different brand name and comes with the RB250 arm.

I understand that the Rega P2 in its latest incarnation went from a glass platter to an MDF-type platter, but that you can still get the glass platter from Rega as an upgrade. Of course you'll get differing opinions on glass platters, but some of the user reviews I've read insist that it's a worthwhile upgrade (approx. $100). If you go with the GR-1, you might find out whether it is compatible with Rega's glass platter for future possibilities.

[Woochifer]

1) Curved arm vs. straight arm. I've seen some mention of this on various threads but what difference does it make?

The turntables with curved arms are DJ decks, and the arms there are curved primarily to provide space for DJs to backcue and scratch without bumping the tonearm. For regular consumers who just listen to their LPs and don't do any backcueing or scratching, the curved arm just adds unnecessary mass.

2) As a starter TT, what difference does it really make if I get a DJ table?

That really depends on the quality of the turntable itself. The Technics SL-1200 is the deck that all of the top club DJs use, and has been the standard in that market for the past couple of decades. The sound quality of that turntable is surprisingly good (it was originally designed for home hi-fi use before Technics modified it with a more powerful motor, wider pitch range, and marketed it to the growing DJ market), the build quality is very durable, and that particular turntable model probably has the widest range of parts and accessories of any turntable on the market. But, for that kind of quality, you pay for it. The list price on that particular model is now $600.

In general, I would say that DJ turntables are built for durability, pitch range, hands-on handling (backcues and scratches), and greater torque in the motors. The sound quality of DJ turntables is generally a step down from similarly priced hi-fi turntables. However, low end hi-fi turntables can sound every bit as lousy if they are poorly designed and cheaply built.

3) Any thoughts on the list of TT's below?

Stanton STR8-30 Direct Drive Turntable
Pro-Ject Debut III w/ ORTOFON OM-5 MM CARTRIDGE
Music Hall- MMF-2.1 Turntable w/ Tracker MM cart
Music Hall Goldring GR-1 Turntable with RB-250 arm and Electra Phono Cartridge

Not familiar with the GR-1, so I can't speak to that, but as others have indicated, it sounds like a retagged Rega. As for the others, they are low cost entry level turntables because they provide minimal isolation and come fitted with low level cartridges. Their build quality's also a step down from the better turntables.

As evidenced by my recent cartridge upgrade, the cartridge can make or break what you hear with vinyl records. And in general, you're really missing out on a lot if you're listening to vinyl through an entry level cartridge. The best turntable in the world will still sound dull and uninvolving if the cartridge is not up to the task. Just from personal experience, you'll get a major step up in sound quality if you get the Pro-Ject turntable and simply switch out the needle that comes with that Ortofon OM5 cartridge to the 20 stylus used on the OM20 (the OM5 and OM20 use a nearly identical cartridge body, but come fitted with different needles). Replacing the stylus will cost about $80 from LP Gear. Not sure about whether the other cartridges allow you to make that kind of simple upgrade by swapping to a different needle while using the same cartridge body.

Unlike with CD players, where the sound quality difference between a bottom-rung portable player and a top-of-the-line audiophile component is more subtle than obvious, the steps up in sound quality as you move up the chain with turntables, tonearms, and cartridges are a lot more clearcut and obvious.

Another consideration with these turntables is that all of them as far as I know require a phono stage on your amp/receiver. If you lack a dedicated phono input, then you need to buy an outboard phono preamp, which will typically run you around $100.

4) I know the Stanton is the half the cost of the others, but am I really going to notice that big of a difference as a newbie?

The Stanton is built for a different market. In general, I would not recommend low end direct drive turntables because they tend to produce audible noise and rumbling. Plus, that cartridge that comes with the Stanton is designed more for durability than sound quality.