Why receivers are not as good as amplifiers

[RGA]

No the J will not produce subwoofer bass to subwoofer levels...and the Gershman X-1Sub combo is basically a directly made subwoofer attachment which is formidable -- better IMO than similar looking speakers and more expensive speakers from Wilson (namely the Sophia).

Soundhounds' narrow auditioning room needs to get rid of the wall mount because they can't get the speakers back into the corners which is where the bass comes from.

You should not get treble sibilence from the K -- that is one trait which should not result from any AN speaker -- especially not if the last speaker was any kind of Klipsch

I can;t recall if I had treble brightness right off the bat or not - but then I ran a smooth integrated in the Sugden A48B in a well damped room. I did hear some treble thinness with the Rotel Soundhounds was using but that was only because we compared directly against the Meishu and 3.1 cd player which makes most cd players look real bad real fast.

Yeah but did you compare the K against the B&W 705?

[corwin99]

No the J will not produce subwoofer bass to subwoofer levels...and the Gershman X-1Sub combo is basically a directly made subwoofer attachment which is formidable -- better IMO than similar looking speakers and more expensive speakers from Wilson (namely the Sophia).

Soundhounds' narrow auditioning room needs to get rid of the wall mount because they can't get the speakers back into the corners which is where the bass comes from.

You should not get treble sibilence from the K -- that is one trait which should not result from any AN speaker -- especially not if the last speaker was any kind of Klipsch

I can;t recall if I had treble brightness right off the bat or not - but then I ran a smooth integrated in the Sugden A48B in a well damped room. I did hear some treble thinness with the Rotel Soundhounds was using but that was only because we compared directly against the Meishu and 3.1 cd player which makes most cd players look real bad real fast.

Yeah but did you compare the K against the B&W 705?

The Gershman's did not beat the Audio Note's in the soundstaging and off-axis performance department, but for overall enjoyment they came out ahead.. seemed less brittle... my personal opinon on the AN K/Spe's so far is that they definately have some sibilance (I noticed this with the speakers at Sound Hounds too which were driven by 2 very expensive looking silver Audio Note components... integrated and a CD player).. but I also thought the narrow room might have had something to do with it... or perhaps the recording. At any rate, they still sound superb. I am driving them with a pair of Radii KT-88 Monoblocks that are very smooth sounding, so i really don't think it was them.. I even let them warm up for a good hour too.

Actually the Klipsch RB-5 MKII is really nice and non-fatiguing speaker. It reproduces a bit of a hump in the midrange from what I can tell.. perhaps horn coloration or something from the tractix horn.. reminds me a bit of listening to Tannoy's with the dual concentric tweeter/woofer... great for Jazz. If you make it out to our shindig i'll display Email me at ddood at dood.ca so I can add you to the mailing list of the people that are coming to decide on a date and which components everyone is bringing. You can tell me if you think the K's are sibilant or not then too

I didn't even bother with the B&K's... they did get a HUGE pair of those new 700 series B&K's with the diamond tweeter... something like $15,000 a pair... less than what i thought they might be, but they were out front with the Maggies... looked nice.. sounded nice but i didn't really sit down and listen. The only B&K's i remember liking were an older pair of those Robot looking ones.. the matrix series i think... don't remember which one or generation.

[RGA]

The Gershman's did not beat the Audio Note's in the soundstaging and off-axis performance department, but for overall enjoyment they came out ahead.. seemed less brittle... my personal opinon on the AN K/Spe's so far is that they definately have some sibilance (I noticed this with the speakers at Sound Hounds too which were driven by 2 very expensive looking silver Audio Note components... integrated and a CD player).. but I also thought the narrow room might have had something to do with it... or perhaps the recording. At any rate, they still sound superb. I am driving them with a pair of Radii KT-88 Monoblocks that are very smooth sounding, so i really don't think it was them.. I even let them warm up for a good hour too.

Actually the Klipsch RB-5 MKII is really nice and non-fatiguing speaker. It reproduces a bit of a hump in the midrange from what I can tell.. perhaps horn coloration or something from the tractix horn.. reminds me a bit of listening to Tannoy's with the dual concentric tweeter/woofer... great for Jazz. If you make it out to our shindig i'll display Email me at ddood at dood.ca so I can add you to the mailing list of the people that are coming to decide on a date and which components everyone is bringing. You can tell me if you think the K's are sibilant or not then too

I didn't even bother with the B&K's... they did get a HUGE pair of those new 700 series B&K's with the diamond tweeter... something like $15,000 a pair... less than what i thought they might be, but they were out front with the Maggies... looked nice.. sounded nice but i didn't really sit down and listen. The only B&K's i remember liking were an older pair of those Robot looking ones.. the matrix series i think... don't remember which one or generation.

I suppose it's a matter of taste my reason for not buying the X1 was because I found it subdued and restrained in the treble - Though I still say it's one of the best $1500.00cdn speakers around because I would prefer a speaker to err this side than err on the bright side.

Just goes to show you that not everyone hears it the same way. The Maggies are great speakers for the money -- I may consider them as a second system for home theater that does justice to music -- but I'd want to listen longer because I wasn;t convinced by the ribbons totally -- never have really been thrilled with ribbons...but Maggie's 1.6 was better than I heard from others over the years including the SMG which to be frank stunk IMO.

[E-Stat]

...but I'd want to listen longer because I wasn;t convinced by the ribbons totally -- never have really been thrilled with ribbons...but Maggie's 1.6 was better than I heard from others over the years including the SMG which to be frank stunk IMO.

FYI, the 1.6s do not have the ribbon tweeters as found on the 3.6s and the 20.1s.

rw

[corwin99]

I suppose it's a matter of taste my reason for not buying the X1 was because I found it subdued and restrained in the treble - Though I still say it's one of the best $1500.00cdn speakers around because I would prefer a speaker to err this side than err on the bright side.

Just goes to show you that not everyone hears it the same way. The Maggies are great speakers for the money -- I may consider them as a second system for home theater that does justice to music -- but I'd want to listen longer because I wasn;t convinced by the ribbons totally -- never have really been thrilled with ribbons...but Maggie's 1.6 was better than I heard from others over the years including the SMG which to be frank stunk IMO.

I agree that the X-1 does feel a bit restrained in the treble... it tends to lack a bit of the air that the Audio Note have... but I think that is also the reason I like it so much, especially over the long haul.. it is such an easy speaker to listen to in that it causes no listener fatigue. I also think Gershman raised their Canadian Prices recently as Canadian dealers seem to be asking $2000CAD for the X-1 now.

I've been listening to those AN/K Spe's a bit more the last couple nights and they are starting to tame down a bit.. now I'm not hearing that sibilance anymore. I was hearing it with a lot of female vocals. Amazing sense of air and transparency. Good call on these speakers... whole time i was reading all your posts about these things i was skeptical, but decided to buy a pair anyway.. they are good.

[RGA]

I agree that the X-1 does feel a bit restrained in the treble... it tends to lack a bit of the air that the Audio Note have... but I think that is also the reason I like it so much, especially over the long haul.. it is such an easy speaker to listen to in that it causes no listener fatigue. I also think Gershman raised their Canadian Prices recently as Canadian dealers seem to be asking $2000CAD for the X-1 now.

I've been listening to those AN/K Spe's a bit more the last couple nights and they are starting to tame down a bit.. now I'm not hearing that sibilance anymore. I was hearing it with a lot of female vocals. Amazing sense of air and transparency. Good call on these speakers... whole time i was reading all your posts about these things i was skeptical, but decided to buy a pair anyway.. they are good.

Well mate all I can say is you have some good taste because very few people would take a gamble on speakers like Gershman or for that matter Audio Note. I heard Gershman before Audio Note and have been recommending them for years. The AN K needs a lot of experimenting to get bang on...toe in, or not, dead straight ahed works in some rooms better, distance apart, how close to the wall. With the J in the corner it is not just a matter of bass but also on the control of the midrange and treble.

I am not a huge break in believer because I think it's largely a matter of getting used to somethig that is presenting the material differently. My first criteria of any loudspeaker is can I listen to it fairly loud which is loud ALL-DAY. If one cannot then return it. I recommend highly those speakers that fall into this camp...I can forgive weaknesses because all speakers have them -- all day listening is an attribute of speakers like AN Gershman, Reference 3a MM De Capo (original version), among a few others.

The AN's will settle down -- they don;t like inexpensive SS gear at all. In fact if you have several hours at Soundhounds -- get them to hiook up the VEYR GOOD Rotel RA-1 or 2 to the AN K/SPe and the AN E/L -- You'll find the Rotel does better with the E/L and makes the K a bit strident. But when you switch out the Rotel with the Meishu the K is still just as extended but without any hint of grain...the E/L for whatever reason (copper as opposed to silver) is easier going on lesser gear.

I personally think Soundhounds should carry the cheaper K/LX because it is less likely people are going to have truly great amps running the K's. If the K/LX is like the E/LX then it would be far friendlier to inexpensive or SS amplifiers in general.

I have done the time listening to the J/L vs J/Spe and several E models after each other and the treble response is improved dramatically IF the amplifier is SE. So LX is better with SS and Spe and above needs SE to be IMO well matched.

Though I enjoyed the Sugden I had with both -- but few SS sound like Sugden.

I'd kinda like to see Soundhounds pick up Gershman -- what the hell they seem to have tried everything else.

[corwin99]

Well mate all I can say is you have some good taste because very few people would take a gamble on speakers like Gershman or for that matter Audio Note. I heard Gershman before Audio Note and have been recommending them for years. The AN K needs a lot of experimenting to get bang on...toe in, or not, dead straight ahed works in some rooms better, distance apart, how close to the wall. With the J in the corner it is not just a matter of bass but also on the control of the midrange and treble.

I am not a huge break in believer because I think it's largely a matter of getting used to somethig that is presenting the material differently. My first criteria of any loudspeaker is can I listen to it fairly loud which is loud ALL-DAY. If one cannot then return it. I recommend highly those speakers that fall into this camp...I can forgive weaknesses because all speakers have them -- all day listening is an attribute of speakers like AN Gershman, Reference 3a MM De Capo (original version), among a few others.

I agree.. I need speakers that I can listen to loud for extended periods. You will be sad to hear that the All-day listening attribute of the Ref 3a MM De Capo's seems to be slightly diminished... but still sound very good in other respects.

You know what's funny, when I bought the AN/K Spe's, i almost bought them to prove to myself that they couldn't be as good as they are, especially with their ugly cabinets and what not. I've actually grown to like the cabinet. In my recollection.. my favourite speaker i've ever heard is still likely the Gershman Avant Garde. The Carbon Fiber Audax midrange in that unit sounds so good.

The AN's will settle down -- they don;t like inexpensive SS gear at all. In fact if you have several hours at Soundhounds -- get them to hiook up the VEYR GOOD Rotel RA-1 or 2 to the AN K/SPe and the AN E/L -- You'll find the Rotel does better with the E/L and makes the K a bit strident. But when you switch out the Rotel with the Meishu the K is still just as extended but without any hint of grain...the E/L for whatever reason (copper as opposed to silver) is easier going on lesser gear.

I personally think Soundhounds should carry the cheaper K/LX because it is less likely people are going to have truly great amps running the K's. If the K/LX is like the E/LX then it would be far friendlier to inexpensive or SS amplifiers in general.

I have done the time listening to the J/L vs J/Spe and several E models after each other and the treble response is improved dramatically IF the amplifier is SE. So LX is better with SS and Spe and above needs SE to be IMO well matched.

Though I enjoyed the Sugden I had with both -- but few SS sound like Sugden.

I'd kinda like to see Soundhounds pick up Gershman -- what the hell they seem to have tried everything else.

When i return from China (i'm leaving tomorrow) I will hook my K/Spe's to the Odyssey's to see how well they work together.. since i have two complete systems side by side it will be easy.. and good for my shootout. You really should come... We're going to have a Blue Note Piccolo Turntable, Ellis 1801 Speakers, Jolida 100B CD player, SimAudio 4070se, Musical Fidelity Amp of some sort, all my gear, hopefully a Roksan Radius 5 TT, and maybe more... all this along with my own gear of course... some of which isn't listed in my sig.

I was actually thinking about buying a pair of the J/L instead, with the Vinyl Veneer and all copper... since it was the first one i listened to.. not sure if they were using the Meishu, but it was a very large silver integrated and Cd player.. both audio note. The K/Spe actually sounded BETTER than the J/L to my ears in that room. Considering they were both the same price and the J/L was like twice the size i was a bit tempted to get the J/L anyway.. but can't fit that next to my gershmans. So far the K/Spe's are liking my Radii KT-88's... they're nice little 15W monoblocks. I should actually stick my Sonic Impact modded amp in there too.

You really should consider coming down to our shindig.. likely will be a saturday.. mid-late June... all day.. BBQ/Beer and all that.

[RGA]

I agree.. I need speakers that I can listen to loud for extended periods. You will be sad to hear that the All-day listening attribute of the Ref 3a MM De Capo's seems to be slightly diminished... but still sound very good in other respects.

You know what's funny, when I bought the AN/K Spe's, i almost bought them to prove to myself that they couldn't be as good as they are, especially with their ugly cabinets and what not. I've actually grown to like the cabinet. In my recollection.. my favourite speaker i've ever heard is still likely the Gershman Avant Garde. The Carbon Fiber Audax midrange in that unit sounds so good.



When i return from China (i'm leaving tomorrow) I will hook my K/Spe's to the Odyssey's to see how well they work together.. since i have two complete systems side by side it will be easy.. and good for my shootout. You really should come... We're going to have a Blue Note Piccolo Turntable, Ellis 1801 Speakers, Jolida 100B CD player, SimAudio 4070se, Musical Fidelity Amp of some sort, all my gear, hopefully a Roksan Radius 5 TT, and maybe more... all this along with my own gear of course... some of which isn't listed in my sig.

I was actually thinking about buying a pair of the J/L instead, with the Vinyl Veneer and all copper... since it was the first one i listened to.. not sure if they were using the Meishu, but it was a very large silver integrated and Cd player.. both audio note. The K/Spe actually sounded BETTER than the J/L to my ears in that room. Considering they were both the same price and the J/L was like twice the size i was a bit tempted to get the J/L anyway.. but can't fit that next to my gershmans. So far the K/Spe's are liking my Radii KT-88's... they're nice little 15W monoblocks. I should actually stick my Sonic Impact modded amp in there too.

You really should consider coming down to our shindig.. likely will be a saturday.. mid-late June... all day.. BBQ/Beer and all that.

I don't mind coming but I can't bring my speakers -- I am also car-less.

The K/spe could be argued as being better than the J/L -- I know Bob Neil who reviews for Positive Feedback likes the K for certain things. The J/L is in a chipboard box copper wiring and is about 5-10 years old...it depends what you're going to match up with the stuff...the J has 25hz on the K and a much larger sounding front to back presence -- but the K/Spe is more refined than any L model for the range that it covers. The J will also play considerably louder with less power. They don;t sound the same after all because we'retalking a port versus a sealed cabinet.

I had the K for six months but the added bass extends the envelope of the overall presence and image so much that I would probably due without some resolution and get the J/L over the K/Spe if they were around the same money if it were a main speaker. The J/Spe did take time oddly for the bass to seem right and the whole sound to really feel at ease.

I spent the most time with the X1 and the GAP(which is a fine speaker as well).