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  1. #1
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Why a name like Vincent?

    One of our audio-hobbyist buddies sent me a email extending me his congrats, and approval of my new Vincent preamp and asked me how I liked it. So I thought I would post what I explained to him here.


    "I've alway seen Vincent over at Audioadvisor and I've read a few very good reviews about Vincent but that is about all. Not to many in the states can tell you anything about it. But AA sure sells alot of them but I have no idea who these people are, because they sure as in hell dont post reviews about them.

    And I have always wondered why a German company would design a product from their head quarters in Germany, and pay another company in China to manufacture it, and then let that same manufacturing company make products that look just like it but with cheaper parts...and to top it off, The German company call their product Vincent? Just did not make sense to me.

    But now that I own one I know why....at least in my mind. Its designed in Germany by Germans because Germans know how to design a product...just look at their cars and build quality of their cars and every thing else Germans make. It is built like a tank. They built in china where it cost less to build and still keep that German tuffness, design and build quality that goes into the Vincent named product. They let the Chinese manufacturer make Vincent designed products under their own Chinese name but with cheaper parts and a slight modification to the design, as part of getting a cheaper price to manufacature the Vincent gear. Add let me add, the Germans are there in the plant over looking the manufacturing. (I've read many reports and reviews online from Europe where I had to use a translating tool to understand information on Vincent)

    But I could never figure out why call it Vincent! That is what really puzzeled me and I could not figure it out...it stumped the hell out of me. Why a strang name like VIncent!
    The name it self comes from a Latin word and means “conquering.” But shoot.....that still did not tell me much. Now Vince...is the short version of Vincent so it still did not tell me much. I read over the reviews and nothing much there but the same stuff you read in professional reviews. But what I did notice in some of the reviews was that it was really good with strings...but I never really tripped off that. Alot of gear sounds good with strings. So one day with out even thinking about the reviews and just spinning music that I like, I happen to play some classical with vocals and man what I heard was unbelievable! All of a sudden those reviews that made a big deal about strings came back to mind! I could not believe it...

    This thing does classical and stings really well. Stings are more vivid with this preamp. The stings sorta come to life as if they are dancing above and infront of you. And the name "VIncent" is perfect because the meaning is not in what Vincent means “conquering.” but its in what it portrays or depicts. Elegant...luxurious, style ,gracefully refined and dignified, as in tastes and movement. Now dont get me wrong...it does other music really good as well, but play something with string... it just really out shines other stuff I have heard.

    I spoken in other forums asking question about Vincent and I have gotten everything from its cheap made in China...to, do not buy it it sounds muddy to its nice stuff, to it looks nice but neve heard it. But I can assure you, Vincent is a fine piece of gear....and Elegant as well.

    I really like this preamp. I've seen reviews call it a Hybrid preamp, but thats not the case with the SA-T1..its all valve. It has a matching pair of mono amps, the SP-100 that are tube and transistor but not the preamp...

    Now listening to a 1977 recording on vinyl.... Brahms Symphony No. 2 in D Major OP,73 by Artur Rodzinski conducting the Philharmonic-Symphony of New York which is not the best recording on vinyl and the SA-T1 makes it sound really decent. I need to get some better quality Classical on vinyl. Classical strings on CD really shine unlike anything I've heard in the past on any gear....Thats "Vincent" for ya!

    frenchmon
    Last edited by frenchmon; 07-31-2011 at 04:33 AM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  2. #2
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I considered this Vincent Integrated amp I read about in Stereophile.

    http://www.stereophile.com/integrate...ier/index.html


    Vincent TubeLine SV-236MK integrated amplifier


    By Michael Fremer • Posted: Apr 16, 2009

    If you ever find yourself in an audiophile-type argument and need proof that, in the 21st century, manufacturing high-performance audio gear to sell for a reasonable retail price is becoming an impossibility, point to Vincent T.A.C.'s TubeLine SV-236MK integrated amplifier, designed in Germany and built in China.


    Have the person you're arguing with inspect the fit'n'finish of this handsome, 45-lb powerhouse, and finger the rugged heatsinks flanking its chassis. Encourage that audiophile to pop the heavy top plate and examine the superior build quality and parts (including WIMA caps), the elegant layout, the dual sets of hunky speaker terminals, the massive toroidal power transformer—not to mention the discrete output devices, and the front-end's three 12AX7 tubes, ripe for rolling.

    When your friend is finished looking, and you've told him or her that the SV-236MK is rated to output 150Wpc into 8 ohms (with the first 10Wpc in class-A), or 250Wpc into 4 ohms—and even before you sit down to listen to it—ask your friend to guess its price. $3000? $4000? $5000?

    Who'd guess that the SV-236MK's list price is $1995? Not me, that's for sure—and I've been around this stuff a long time.

    Too Grand for Two Grand
    In addition to plenty of claimed power, your $1995 gets you a smoothly machined metal remote control for volume, mute, selecting from among six line inputs, and a dimmer for the "show" tube, which is prominently framed by a circular glass window at the center of the thick front panel, and backed by a mirror. Obviously, it's not the tube's filaments that dim when you push the dimmer button. Instead, a series of filament-tinted LEDs mounted to the window's sides reflect off the tube to do the trick.

    And note the tone controls: Treble and Bass, defeatable by a Tone button. In addition to the Volume and input controls, there's even a Loudness button, which adjusts the amplifier's response at low volumes to compensate for the nominal changes in human hearing sensitivity. It's like the 1960s, with a price to match (in '60s dollars, $2000 is about $395). On the rear panel are Tape Out and Preamp Out jacks.

    After removing the RCA jacks' translucent covers—a nice touch omitted even from more expensive gear—you plug in your sources, connect your speaker cables to the WBT-like five-way binding posts (maybe they're real WBTs—Vincent is a German firm, after all), push the Power button at the center of the front panel, and—unless you've been tipped off in advance by reading this review—you're in for a big surprise.


    The review continues and if I were not so neurotic about tubes I would have purchased one. Enjoy your preamp and the music it is making.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  3. #3
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    That's it, I am chaning my firstborn's name to Vincent. "Honey call the lawyer..."

  4. #4
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    Vincent products are rebadged Shengya.

  5. #5
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    Vincent products are rebadged Shengya.
    That's not a bad thing. The Shengya PM 150 for a big power set of monoblock amps is very very good. I would have bought them but my speakers don't need the power and the second system I was building has been put on the back burner.

  6. #6
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    Vincent products are rebadged Shengya.
    Old news Poultry...did you read what I wrote?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  7. #7
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    My point is Shengya, the highly respected audio giant, is highly unlikely to have one assembly line for their products and a separate line for Vincent spec.'ed products. Chinese audio is a shell game I find facinating and if you're willing to play can save you hundreds.

    China has already reached the pinnacle of audio design.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    My point is Shengya, the highly respected audio giant, is highly unlikely to have one assembly line for their products and a separate line for Vincent spec.'ed products. Chinese audio is a shell game I find facinating and if you're willing to play can save you hundreds.

    China has already reached the pinnacle of audio design.


    I think Chinese manufactures do produce to spec for the individual companies. My Mobile Fidelity OML1's, VonSchweikert VR1's and the LSA1's were all made in China with variations in cabinets and crossovers. I am not sure which company produced all 3 but they certainly had different production runs.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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  9. #9
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I think Chinese manufactures do produce to spec for the individual companies. My Mobile Fidelity OML1's, VonSchweikert VR1's and the LSA1's were all made in China with variations in cabinets and crossovers. I am not sure which company produced all 3 but they certainly had different production runs.
    As I gather there are all kind of arrangements in China with varying degrees of control over the finished product by the brand owner. Everything from total ownership and control of the factory to short-run contract assembly with minimal quality control and no effort to prevent knock-offs.

    It's certainly invalid to assume that Chinese manufacture means poor quality -- the Chinese can match the highest standard of quality if that's what they set out to do. Trouble is it's not always what they're aiming for.

    As home-grown Chinese brands, such as Shengya say, become establish & know, consistently higher quality will be better assured.

  10. #10
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    My point is Shengya, the highly respected audio giant, is highly unlikely to have one assembly line for their products and a separate line for Vincent spec.'ed products. Chinese audio is a shell game I find facinating and if you're willing to play can save you hundreds.

    China has already reached the pinnacle of audio design.
    Well...the quality of this "Vincent" product is extremely high. And in my research of VIncent products I found a fella over at Audio Circle who wrote VIncent over in Germany and Shengya over in China back in 2006 and asked several questions and he posted the important quotes from both companys. I would have to find the thread at audiocirle to post the quotes, but Vincent Audio said yes their products are made in China but their product is watch over by Vincent at the plaint to insure their standards are being put in place...and Shengya said yes both products come from the same plaint but Vincent has different parts and, more expensive parts than Shengya's products and that was why Vincent products cost more than Shengya. I will look for that quote if I have time.

    But none of that really matters...I've looked over the SA-T1, and I put it through listening test and this thing is very impressive. The only thing I have not done is roll the tubes.

    This is a very very good product....I even like the tone controls....kinda reminds me of back in the day when when they where standard on gear... I've had some poorly recorded vinyl that the Vincent sort corrected....but for the most part, I have the tone controls in by-passed...Im happy with the SA-T1. I know I said I was not thinking about a new tube Power amp...but now I am thinking about one....hmmmm





    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    Last edited by frenchmon; 08-01-2011 at 03:21 PM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  11. #11
    Ajani
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    Very nice system pics!

    I think you need to pull the camera back and give us a full view (including the speakers).

  12. #12
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    Very nice system pics!

    I think you need to pull the camera back and give us a full view (including the speakers).
    Awh man! then you'd see all my junk laying around... Let me get it cleaned up first. And thanks for the nice words..

    As of right now, I don't have a dedicated phono pre, so I am running the 7.1 into the phono stage on the Rotel RC 1090 preamp and out to SA-T1. I'm sure you know Ajani you at one time owning the RB1080 and the RC 1090, that the phono stage of the 1090 is really good. But before the summer is over, I will either get the phono pre that JohnMichaels has or the one noob has. I think JohnM has the Gram Amp 3 and noob has the PS Audio GCPH...I like the Rogue Stealth as well. So thats why you see the 1090 in the picture.
    Last edited by frenchmon; 08-01-2011 at 11:12 AM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  13. #13
    RGA
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    frenchmon

    what are those stands you're using for your gear. It looks good and seem from the pictures as though they behave as a kind of shock absorber - I have not seen those.

  14. #14
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    frenchmon

    what are those stands you're using for your gear. It looks good and seem from the pictures as though they behave as a kind of shock absorber - I have not seen those.

    Thanks RGA...those are my own creation. I have no vibrations what so ever.....I suspect its more due to the fact I have carpet sitting on top of a concrete floor. My 2 channel room is in the basement.

    Once I get a phono pre I will put the Rotel pre up in a second 2 channel system in one of the bed rooms that has been converted into a study. I will see just how good/bad those vibration stands really are then.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  15. #15
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    "Shengya as elegant as paintings by Vincent van Gogh"


    http://www.cattylink.com/page235a.html

  16. #16
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    "Shengya as elegant as paintings by Vincent van Gogh" [url]http://www.cattylink.com/page235a.htm

    From Wikipedia

    Vincent Willem van Gogh (UK play /ˌvæn ˈɡɒx/, US /ˌvæn ˈɡoʊ/;[note 1] Dutch: [vɑn ˈɣɔχ] ( listen); March 30, 1853 – July 29, 1890) was a Dutch post-Impressionist painter whose work had a far-reaching influence on 20th century art as a result of its vivid colors and emotional impact[/wuote]

    What exactly does this mean "Serious upgraded model to the famous SA-T1"?

    Does that mean it has now been upgraded now to be on par with the SA-T1 after firstly having been produced with cheaper parts? Or that its performance now surpassed the SA-T1?


    Also...the literature that came with the SA-T1 states that its only tube and not hybrid, and the matching mono amps are tube/transistors making it a hybrid. It seems the SHENGYA version of the SA-T1 is a hybrid.
    Last edited by frenchmon; 08-02-2011 at 04:32 AM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  17. #17
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Wow! Look at the price it would cost to have a pair shipped here:

    CATTYLINK ANALOG RESEARCH LIMITED

    Item Name Quantity Price Total
    SHE-AMP-106 - SHENGYA PM-150 HYBRID POWER AMPLIFIER x 1 PAIR (2 UNITS) (remove) $955.00 $955.00
    Subtotal for Products: $955.00
    Current shipping is Shipping: $338.00
    Insurance /Documents /Payment /Fuel Surcharges (if any): $116.24
    Your Location : UNITED STATES- change
    Currency is US Dollar Total $1,409.24
    Click on the 'Checkout' button to pay for these items
    Versus What Grant Fidelity sells them for

    Shengya PM-150 Hybrid Mono Blocks (pair)


    Back to List
    MSRP:
    $2,400.00
    Price:
    $2,000.00
    Your Savings:
    $400.00 (16.67%)
    Big difference.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  18. #18
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    I kinda like my Vincent gear, but I'm just a newbie here willing to listen and learn

  19. #19
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mav52 View Post
    I kinda like my Vincent gear, but I'm just a newbie here willing to listen and learn
    Yes I like mine as well...and the few people I do know who have Vincent seem to just love theirs as well. How long you had yours?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  20. #20
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    ...
    And I have always wondered why a German company would design a product from their head quarters in Germany, and pay another company in China to manufacture it, and then let that same manufacturing company make products that look just like it but with cheaper parts...

    frenchmon
    Yeah, that's what they all say. I mean, that the Chinese-branded versions use "cheaper parts". Who says that? The German (or other western company) or the Chinese brand?

    'Scuse me but I'm a bit skeptical. I'd wager that the differences, if any, are typically token and don't go anywhere towards justifying the price differential.

  21. #21
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    Below is a link to Mark Levinson's Red Rose Amps several of which were made by Korsun which is now Dussun. I had a Bada tube hybrid that was the same as a MF amp. There were some slight changes in it's face plate and instead of MF it read Tube Fidelity.

    I've bought Chinese gear from US dealers and from China. The only difference I found was the huge mark up from the US dealer.

    There are Chinese ebay merchants who sell Shengya gear cheaper than Cattylink.

    http://www.redrosemusic.com/amplifiers.shtml

  22. #22
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    frenchmon I've had mine for about 11 months.

  23. #23
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Yeah, that's what they all say. I mean, that the Chinese-branded versions use "cheaper parts". Who says that? The German (or other western company) or the Chinese brand?

    'Scuse me but I'm a bit skeptical. I'd wager that the differences, if any, are typically token and don't go anywhere towards justifying the price differential.

    Feanor..what is the advantage for one company to allow another company to sell the exact same product...and cheaper? They both are not creating the same designs I dont think. Its not just Vincent and Shengya...its a lot of China/other companies.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  24. #24
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Yeah, that's what they all say. I mean, that the Chinese-branded versions use "cheaper parts". Who says that? The German (or other western company) or the Chinese brand?

    'Scuse me but I'm a bit skeptical. I'd wager that the differences, if any, are typically token and don't go anywhere towards justifying the price differential.
    Here is some interesting reading about Vincent and ShengYa. Its been translated so it may be difficult to read.

    Vincent-Audio.com - Audio K


    Welcome to K Audio

    The company distributes K Audio in France electronics brand Vincent, Tac, and Dual Dynavox. The company is based K Audio in Strasbourg that is a few kilometers from the parent company located in Germany.

    History Vincent ™

    The group Sintron International specializes in the design, manufacture and marketing of electronic products multiple (from video surveillance to car radios, to mixers, etc.).. Consulting firms are mainly based in Europe, with production outsourced to Asia. In the early 90's, a division of Engineers Sintron Germany had the idea to dip into the vast catalog parts of the group in order to achieve quality electronic, musical, and affordable. Audiophile enthusiast and avid systems flats to high-performance, multi-amp based active 300B for mid-high and Class A amplifiers for the serious, Jos Dereck was to create electronic on passive systems to retain domestic dimensions much of the benefits of multi-active amplification and 300B triode. To keep the size, ease of restitution and the lack of saturation of the multi-active amplification, it was therefore necessary to carry electronic feature oversized power supplies and high power output. This, combined or hybrid schemes to tubes and transistors, or patterns in class A, allowed to retain the beauty of stamps lamps, all in the context of domestic use of attractive price. Thus the first models were proposed Vincent ™. Amp preamp hybrid integrated transistor Class A SV 231, ... Models Class A units, which were an instant success in Germany soon followed the rest of Europe.

    At the same time, a member of the Executive German Uwe Bartel, had led in the late 80's a study of the evolution of outsourcing in Asia on Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan, South Korea, etc.. It appeared from this study that all Asian countries, the only one who can ensure consistency in the rates of subcontracting in the next 40 years was China. Too passionate (and as many Germans for that matter) by high-fidelity high-end, Mr. Uwe Bartel followed closely the development of commercial success of Vincent ™ due to the excellent value for money related economies of scale in the purchase of components, thanks to the group Sintron. It was therefore decided to launch a high-end line at exceptional value, and therefore, in this design, it was essential to control the sub- contract to ensure a perfect consistency in the quality of production, all associated with mass production and worldwide distribution. The meeting with Professor Ho, specialist Chinese semiconductor, was revealing: it allowed to create in China a manufacturing unit devoted solely to specific and Vincent ™, to build a research and development increased in enormously the capacity study of Vincent ™ Germany.

    Last but not least, this meeting allowed the establishment of a network of marketing in China and the rest of Asia. For this was what one of the traits of visionary Uwe Bartel, to whom we owe the success of Vincent ™: to manufacture high-end three times cheaper than competitors, it is made ​​in China, but in addition, one must make in large quantities for a market world, including Asia. In addition, the demands of the Asian market are less focused on product quality in Europe, developing a distribution network to the rising sun allows the use of the electronic components do not comply with ruthless European qualitative selection criteria ( matched components, carefully selected to ensure a perfect sound quality). The rate of release of these components is about 40% in Europe, using them in products for the Asian market contributes in large part to obtain a value price. In return, it is clear that devices intended for the Asian market (which also does not meet EC) can not claim the same benefits, listening, as European products. In the meeting between Mr. Uwe Bartel and Professor Ho was born in 1998, the famous SP-991 monoblocks, the SA-91 preamp, the CD-S3 and SV-233 integrated products, which were followed since then by over 25 different models that We invite you to learn now .
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  25. #25
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    Check out the March 24 blog by Vic Trola regarding Chinese gear and the boutique brands.

    http://victrolax.blogspot.com/

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