Why does my amp sound better than my receiver?

[E-Stat]

But, I have posted many times a list of citations where others have tried to prove their claims and have failed, miserably

Using either unknown or miserable components. It's MIMO - mediocrity in / mediocrity out.

rw

[hifitommy]

"No, not at all, just that things don't change in audio as you insist it should. After all, it is your hearing that is the limiting factor in all this. It is not evolving to the better, to be more sensitive but it does diminishes. So, why should new components be audibly better?

It is th emarket forces, marketeers, that have brain washed the consumers that the latest is the greates.
__________________
mtrycrafts "

i cant see where i have made such an insistence please quote this.

you have no idea what my hearing is like, and yourself have exhibited a lack of said ability.

not all new components sound better as we found out when transistors came out and redbook CD was introduced. Sacd otoh is the digital they should have given us the FIRST time. it was them (the marketeers you refer to) rushing to make money that wanted that change

[mtrycraft]

"No, not at all, just that things don't change in audio as you insist it should. After all, it is your hearing that is the limiting factor in all this. It is not evolving to the better, to be more sensitive but it does diminishes. So, why should new components be audibly better?

It is th emarket forces, marketeers, that have brain washed the consumers that the latest is the greates.
__________________
mtrycrafts "

i cant see where i have made such an insistence please quote this.

you have no idea what my hearing is like, and yourself have exhibited a lack of said ability.

not all new components sound better as we found out when transistors came out and redbook CD was introduced. Sacd otoh is the digital they should have given us the FIRST time. it was them (the marketeers you refer to) rushing to make money that wanted that change

I know your hearing is not unique, or it would be well known to audio. So, why would your ability be any better than those who could only get null results? It isn't any better. How is audio immune from the BS factor? How can you separate it from reality? You have a difficult time from what I have been reading from you.
Oh, I don't have to exhibit any hearing ability at all to participate and challenge silly claims.

[hifitommy]

nor am i the only one to hear the superiority of some CDPs over others, sacd over rbcd, and some wires over others.

[mtrycraft]

nor am i the only one to hear the superiority of some CDPs over others, sacd over rbcd, and some wires over others.

Hearing? Or just perceiveing something that has not been established to be a fact that you or them have indeed heard. They are not the same.

[mtrycraft]

Using either unknown or miserable components. It's MIMO - mediocrity in / mediocrity out.

rw

Yes, you are allowed an opinion. As you know, some are better than others. We know where your stands.

You need to read those before you make unsubstantiated claims.

Where are your citations?

[hifitommy]

poneal

i dont have one of those. imAgination maybe. anyway, youre welcome to stay in mid to lo fi if you like, i dont prefer to do so. if YOU cant hear the difference, you shouldnt spend the money needed to go high end.

btw, i RARELY spend money on equipment and usually it is used. my sacdp cost the lofty sum of $169 delivered. as a stand alone rbcdp, it is the best ive had in the house.

i imagine that i have a pretty nice sounding system:

http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/588.html

also, i didnt hear what i wanted. i heard what i heard. i WANTED cd to sound better than vinyl and it didnt. i HOPED sacd would sound better than rbcd, it does.

i didnt know what to expect when i obtained my arc preamp, what i heard FLOORED me. no typically referred to 'tube warmth', nor rolled off top.

if you never hear these things, youll be financially richer for it and so will circuit city. if you do, youll be musically richer for it.

[hifitommy]

i can appreciate why you dont understand hearing. you arent capable nor have equipment worth listening to.

[E-Stat]

You need to read those before you make unsubstantiated claims.

Those? Which are those? Here are your daily memory pills:

Null Hypothesis

Null Hypothesis

Null Hypothesis

We're STILL waiting for those to be disclosed. First they exist. Then they don't. Then again they're supposed to exist.

(montereyamnesia3)

rw

[mtrycraft]

Those? Which are those? Here are your daily memory pills:

Null Hypothesis

Null Hypothesis

Null Hypothesis

We're STILL waiting for those to be disclosed. First they exist. Then they don't. Then again they're supposed to exist.

(montereyamnesia3)

rw

You are worse off than I thought. You need some professional help.

[E-Stat]

You are worse off than I thought. You need some professional help.

You never did answer my question from the third post reference. Remember? So which of your two conflicting statements do you want to stick with? What a quandry !

mtry contemplating the response:

If I stick with my first statement...

A. There are no citations of ANY tests with equipment better than mid-fi, then he has a valid point. I don't like that.

or if I go with the second...

B. There actually are tests run with hi end gear, then he's gonna ask again for me to produce them. I don't like that either.

I've got it. I'll just dodge the questions again because I don't like answering them anyway. That always worked before !

(montereyamnesia4)

rw

[Geoffcin]

Here's Some interesting science from Cardas on cable performance.


http://cardas.com/insights/index.html


Seems that you can measure cable performance with something as simple as a square wave. So much for nothing measurable between different cables.

[mtrycraft]

Seems that you can measure cable performance with something as simple as a square wave. So much for nothing measurable between different cables.

The square wave is anything but simple.


Who ever stated there is nothing measurable difference between cables? I bet with the right instruments, you can measure a 1" length difference in a cable. So, what are you trying to say or imply?

[mtrycraft]

You never did answer my question from the third post reference. Remember? So which of your two conflicting statements do you want to stick with? What a quandry !

mtry contemplating the response:

If I stick with my first statement...

A. There are no citations of ANY tests with equipment better than mid-fi, then he has a valid point. I don't like that.

or if I go with the second...

B. There actually are tests run with hi end gear, then he's gonna ask again for me to produce them. I don't like that either.

I've got it. I'll just dodge the questions again because I don't like answering them anyway. That always worked before !

(montereyamnesia4)

rw

You keep shifting and mixing your questions so much who knows, not even you know what you want to ask.

What components would be acceptable to you? Any? Why not list all that would satisfy your irrelevant question.
What you should be doing instead is supplying the proof for differences which you don't have nor will ever hope to have. That is your burden, regardless what equipment list I have or don't have.

Better, yet, you should acquire all those citations yourself and find out.

[Sondek]

The whole concept of "Proof" is totally unprovable and irrelevant to the enjoyment of music or reality.

Listener: makes declaration that he hears ____________ or a difference in ____________ and ____________

Mtrycrafts quotes 4 websites or popular topics ____________ said in an abx/dbt no one heard the difference between a ______________ and ______________ or ___________ makes no difference.

1. There is no way the listener can actually prove what he heard, unless other people are there and hear it also. The only thing you can do is point out dubious methods. (IE using Bose 301's as a reference monitor) Other than that, the individual most likely did, or didn't hear what was claimed. There is no reason to tell someone they can't hear a difference, or must hear a difference.

2. There is no way *any* abx/dbt can be cited, as the listener was not there. So a few measurements, or a test done with other people is not valid to argue that the listener was not correct.

3. Spending over 5,000 posts attempting to decry quality cables, cd players and amps is absurd. Telling everyone else they are biased, and you are not (or don't have a burr/ajenda) is absurd.

FWIW: no matter what MTRYCRAFTS says:

All cd players do NOT sound the same
All amps do not sound the same
All cables do not sound the same
There is such a thing as midfi (recievers) and hifi (separates) and they do sound different. The separates perform better.

Human hearing can percieved variances that a simple resistive measurement cannot. There is much more to sound than simple frequency response, or amplitude.

There is no proof on this planet that can tell me otherwise. Mtrycrafts can make another 5,000 posts, just to argue with this, and it makes no difference to me at all. He can tell me anything he wants, anything any test cites, and that won't make any difference. I know what I can and cannot hear.

I urge all of you to listen for yourself as to what makes music, and what doesn't. cutting mtrycrafts and his posts out of your life will only serve to enrich your experiance.

"You can change perceptions, but reality won't budge" Rush/show, don't tell/ presto

[E-Stat]

You keep shifting and mixing your questions so much who knows, not even you know what you want to ask.

I haven't shifted an inch. Your references have always been either ridiculously incomplete or been based on mediocre mid-fi components.

What components would be acceptable to you?

If the question is whether or not audible differences can be heard with the state-of-the-art equipment, then start by elimininating all receivers and bookshelf speakers. Comparing one size zip to another size zip and declaring that the results are conclusive for ALL cables of ALL designs is absurd. There are innumerable components better than cheapo BB fare. Say like the ones in the Tag McLaren reference.

Better, yet, you should acquire all those citations yourself and find out.

So the answer to my question is "A" - there are no serious citations.

Detente - you have no proof (nor experience with anything worth proof) and I have no proof you'd accept. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what labcoats think. DBTs will likely never be done with cables for commercial purposes (or any other component for that matter) for reasons I've stated before. Your advice to the masses needs a big fat qualified asterisk given the performance limitations of your citations..

rw