Why does my amp sound better than my receiver?

[kexodusc]

Just out of curiousity, what exactly does your tagline stand for?

That is one of the greatest secrets of the universe, and to reveal it would end the aura of mystique that surrounds me. Actually it's just the word "exodus" (not the biblical writing, but rather one of my favorite classical scores, very hard to play on cello) with my initials "K" and "C" on either end. Ya gotta admit, it almost looks like a cool word, I like the shorter form "kex" people refer to me as.

Thanks so much for the explanation. I bought the Rotel second hand because an old buddy said it was a super awesome deal compared to an older Harman Kardon stereo receiver.

Yes I believe the Rotel has a better power supply and transformers. I'm not sure I understand the impact. Am I correct in assuming that somehow, my receiver is working harder to output the audio signal, while my amplifier can do it with relative ease?

[topspeed]

Yes I believe the Rotel has a better power supply and transformers. I'm not sure I understand the impact. Am I correct in assuming that somehow, my receiver is working harder to output the audio signal, while my amplifier can do it with relative ease?

I can guarantee you that the Rotel's power suppy and transformer kills the Yammie's. (BTW, cheers on such a stellar purchase price ) More power and the ability to deliver power means the Rotel isn't working nearly as hard and has more "headroom" or power in reserve for transients and whatnot. Because the amp isn't stressed, what you are hearing possibly has less distortion than the Yamaha which is working harder. The simple answer is amps sound different. For the drawn out, technical answer, ask Skeptic or another engineer on the board.

BTW, the reason I asked was to see if you were connected to USC (kexodUSC) somehow. Guess where I went?

Fight On!

[markw]

Most any power amp will wipe the floor with most any receiver. Power amps are designed with one thing in mind.. power (duh)!

The transformer in the power amp probably weighs as much as the entire receiver does. More iron means more available power to the speakers. Toroids are a different animal.

Likewise, all that available power is devoted full time to two power amps only. No sharing bewteen a tuner, processor and 5 (or 6) power amps.

The best of both worlds, economically speaking, is to have a receiver of moderate power but full features driving separate power amps. Sounds like you're on the right track.

P.S... Guess what? This post promoted me to a senior member. Does this entitle me to any discounts?

[skeptic]

Most any power amp will wipe the floor with most any receiver. Power amps are designed with one thing in mind.. power (duh)!

The transformer in the power amp probably weighs as much as the entire receiver does. More iron means more available power to the speakers. Toroids are a different animal.

Likewise, all that available power is devoted full time to two power amps only. No sharing bewteen a tuner, processor and 5 (or 6) power amps.

The best of both worlds, economically speaking, is to have a receiver of moderate power but full features driving separate power amps. Sounds like you're on the right track.

P.S... Guess what? This post promoted me to a senior member. Does this entitle me to any discounts?

You have obviously never seen or heard receivers like Marantz 2385, 2500, and 2600. These receivers produced around 20 to 25 years ago were rated to produce 185, 250, and 300 wpc into 8 ohms respectively. They weighed about sixty pounds. The 2600 may have been the greatest stereo receiver ever commercially produced. It could deliver 400 wpc into a 4 ohm load across the audio band with both channels driven.

http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/2600.html

They easily outperformed most separate power amplifiers of the day and they could probably still do the same today. The preamp and tuner stages of a solid state receiver require very little power and generate very little heat so in well designed receiver, there doesn't have to be any compromise. Most companies build their power amplifiers today on separate chasis as a marketing strategy, not for technical reasons. In the long ago past, the need to place two huge output transformers along with many hot vacuum tubes on an acceptably sized chasis made high end receivers impractical. With miniaturization and solid state electronics, that is no longer true.

[markw]

You have obviously never seen or heard receivers like Marantz 2385, 2500, and 2600. These receivers produced around 20 to 25 years ago were rated to produce 185, 250, and 300 wpc into 8 ohms respectively. They weighed about sixty pounds. The 2600 may have been the greatest stereo receiver ever commercially produced. It could deliver 400 wpc into a 4 ohm load across the audio band with both channels driven.

http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/2600.html

They easily outperformed most separate power amplifiers of the day and they could probably still do the same today. The preamp and tuner stages of a solid state receiver require very little power and generate very little heat so in well designed receiver, there doesn't have to be any compromise. Most companies build their power amplifiers today on separate chasis as a marketing strategy, not for technical reasons. In the long ago past, the need to place two huge output transformers along with many hot vacuum tubes on an acceptably sized chasis made high end receivers impractical. With miniaturization and solid state electronics, that is no longer true.

We're talking about today, not 20 - 30 years ago. Now, if we wanna reminisce about the by gone days, that's all well and good but let's keep this discussion in persepctive, shall we?

And, FWIW, for stereo music, my 2270 still whups more modern moderately priced, similarly rated receivers big time.

[topspeed]

And, FWIW, for stereo music, my 2270 still whups more modern moderately priced, similarly rated receivers big time.

My 2230 hooked up to my new VR1's is just terrific. Even at "only" 30 watts and 90dB speakers, I'm never past 50% on the volume (which is pretty freakin' loud in a 16' x 17' bedroom) and it is just so smooth and unfatiguing without even a hint of strain from that 30 sumthin' year old bird. What a great receiver! Now if I can just get the volume potentometer to not need cleaning every couple of years, I'd be set. This last time I had to have the damn thing rebuilt and that wasn't cheap!

[JSE]

You have obviously never seen or heard receivers like Marantz 2385, 2500, and 2600. These receivers produced around 20 to 25 years ago were rated to produce 185, 250, and 300 wpc into 8 ohms respectively. They weighed about sixty pounds. The 2600 may have been the greatest stereo receiver ever commercially produced. It could deliver 400 wpc into a 4 ohm load across the audio band with both channels driven.

http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/2600.html

They easily outperformed most separate power amplifiers of the day and they could probably still do the same today. The preamp and tuner stages of a solid state receiver require very little power and generate very little heat so in well designed receiver, there doesn't have to be any compromise. Most companies build their power amplifiers today on separate chasis as a marketing strategy, not for technical reasons. In the long ago past, the need to place two huge output transformers along with many hot vacuum tubes on an acceptably sized chasis made high end receivers impractical. With miniaturization and solid state electronics, that is no longer true.

I have my father's Marantz 4400 receiver with the SQA-2B decoder. Good ol' quad sound. It's a beast. Worked perfect until about 1 1/2 years ago. Sucker won't turn on. I have been meaning to get it into the shop. I will probably sell it at a later date.

JSE

[skeptic]

It may be something as simple as replacing the power switch. Have you checked the fuses.

The recievers I mentioned were awesome even by today's standards. They provided a virtually distortion free source of power greater than anyone is likely to ever need in a home. Spec for spec or by sound alone, most separates I've seen and heard will not measure up to them. It is probably true that nobody cares to build receivers even remotely approaching this level of quality today. It's a matter of marketing, customer acceptance, and perception. Nobody would believe that $2000 worth of receiver could outperform $5000 worth of separates. I think the bigger units, the 2500 and 2600 would even give the Crown DC 300 a run for its money in terms of available power although of course it is not DC coupled.

[hifitommy]

Yes, ones imagination is limitless, indeed. __________________
mtrycrafts

you poor soul, you just cant hear. please do yourself a favor and actually get an audio system. generic crap wont do, REAL audio equipment, components. just borrow some from a friend or store and substitute it for your receiver and rca cdp.

its entirely possible that youre tone deaf and cant do anything except intellectualize on differences that you cant perceive.

[E-Stat]

It may be something as simple as replacing the power switch. Have you checked the fuses.

That was the case with a "no power" problem with my vintage Pioneer tuner. The complex little push-push again spring loaded mechanism died. It was an easy problem to fix.

rw